94 thoughts on “Wednesday’s Papers

    1. Junkface

      I don’t think vaccinating children should go ahead. I don’t think they should vaccinate under 18’s really. Its not necessary or yet fully tested with medical trials.

  1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    Congrats to the Irish rowers on their bronze. Siobhan Haughey of Hong Kong won silver in the pool. She is a grand-niece of Charles J. Haughey.

        1. Daisy Chainsaw

          And how many Olympic medals do you have?

          I bet you don’t even have one from the Community Games!

          1. Nigel

            So they’re up there competing at a level so far above the rest of us they might as well be on Everest, toe-to-toe with the world elite, therefore coming third is an insignificant acheivement? They better you get at something the less worthy your effort and acheivements?

            You do know sport has ideals, ethics, traditions and spirit, right? And that treating winning as the ony thing that matters throws them all out? That, yes, taking part is literally what sports are about, at every level, even spectating is a form of taking part, and if they’re not about that, then they’re just about advertising, and therefore utterly worthless in every way that matters.

          2. Nigel

            Meh. Dumb macho arrogance. There’s more than one kind of mediocrity. If athletes at that level aren’t exemplars of sporting spirit, encouraging people to take part at every level, then they’re narcissists, the sorts of people who withold praise to play psychological mind games under guise of motivation. I don’t take my cues from narcissists. People being mediocre at sports means people are out, doing a sport and enjoying it. If that ain’t what it’s all about, it’s about nothing.

          3. Daisy Chainsaw

            Never made it to the dizzy heights of Mosney, but I did win Gold and Silver at local level.

            I also won twice at Slogadh.

  2. Redundant Proofreaders Society

    Daily Express: Professor must have got his job back as government advisor, or ‘adviser’ as the newspaper editor spells it.

    1. Movie Freak

      Of all people you ought to know the difference between an advertiser and those two other people you mentioned.

      Stop messing.

    1. Cian

      Sweden introduced various lockdowns in Spring 2021; Now it’s deaths are nearing zero.

      But I’m sure that is just a coincidence.

      1. Micko

        Ah lockdowns. Do they work or don’t they? Remember how we got here.

        The Irish government predicted 85 THOUSAND dead in a worst case scenario if we did nothing.

        It’s the figure that scared us into going along with a lockdown.

        Before the vaccines were introduced in Ireland about 2200 people died.
        (Period ofMarch 13th – Dec 26th 2020)

        Cian, do you believe that closing businesses, hand washing and social distancing saved over 82,800 people in Ireland?

        https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/up-to-85000-irish-people-could-die-from-coronavirus-in-worst-case-scenario-taoiseach-indicates-as-three-more-diagnosed-39029363.html

        1. Cian

          No. And now I don’t think that we were ever at risk of 85,000 deaths.

          You need to remember that those numbers were based on the information available at the time (March 9th 2020). The case fatality rate that had been seen was huge.
          In Italy the deaths from 1st through 9th March were growing exponentially:
          NEW deaths each day
          1-Mar: 5
          2-Mar: 18
          3-Mar: 27
          4-Mar: 28
          5-Mar: 41
          6-Mar: 49
          7-Mar: 36
          8-Mar: 133

          This 85,000 was a “worst case scenario” and the numbers were very high.

          1. Micko

            “ I don’t think that we were ever at risk of 85,000 deaths.”

            Then why did we lockdown and more importantly why did we continue to STAY locked down?

            At some point early on, the government knew that the predicted disaster was NEVER going to happen and the modelling was WAY off – yet they continued to keep us locked down.

            They even introduced mandatory masks when NO ONE was dying. (Aug 10th 2020)

            Something is very wrong here Cian. And none of us should be happy to continue to go along with it.

            Forget all the fighting about vaccines and masks etc

            This is the only question that matters.

            Why did they perpetuate lockdowns?

          2. U N M U T U A L

            @micko
            It was always about the green pass…

            In the UK, those in a placebo group have fully vaccinated status on the NHS app, even if they’ve had the placebo.

            Nadhim Zahawi
            Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Prevention, Public Health and Primary Care
            22/7/21

            “I am really grateful to the hon. Member for that excellent question, and I am grateful for her comments about our Friday morning meetings. Her constituents can rest assured that those who are in clinical trials, including the Novavax trial, will have their data on the NHS covid app as being fully vaccinated, whether they are receiving the placebo or the vaccine, across all trials. That is happening. I will take it offline to look at her constituents’ case to make sure that that happens for them, because I am assured that the system already recognises that.”

            https://www.zahawi.com/parliament/ministerial-statement-covid-19-update-0

          3. Cian

            You asked a specific question about 85,000 deaths.
            I answered.
            You then went off on a tangent.

            Just because I now think the 85,000 deaths was wrong (based on new data) doesn’t mean that there would be no deaths.

            In March 2020 Ferguson (Imperial) modelled 120,000 deaths in the UK over 2 years if they had moderate lockdowns. They are currently at 129,303 (or possibly 153,342 based on death certs);
            They also modelled 480,000 deaths in the US over 2 years if they had moderate lockdowns. They are currently at 627,351;

          4. Micko

            That’s the UK. I’m talking about Ireland. That’s all that matters. (There’s new evidence that the UK were counting people who caught covid AFTER admittance to hospital as Covid deaths. See F_lawless’s post down below. So their death figures are questionable)

            Anyway, If the initial modelling in Ireland was obviously wrong and based on a mistake / lie, why did we continue to stay locked down?

          5. Cian

            Anyway, If the initial modelling in Ireland was obviously wrong and based on a mistake / lie, why did we continue to stay locked down?

            It wasn’t “obviously wrong” or “based on a lie”; it was based on the information known at the time. As more information became available (e.g. that the mortality rate was age-dependant) the models changed.

            The newer corrected models also predicted a lot of deaths (just fewer than the 85,000 deaths, ‘only’ 20,000 deaths).

          6. Micko

            “ The newer corrected models also predicted a lot of deaths ”

            When were they corrected and updated?

            “ the mortality rate was age-dependant)”

            We all knew that from the start. That fact was well documented.

            @ U N M U T U A L – That’s insane.

          7. Micko

            Damn right it doesn’t Unmutual

            Surely a more sensible approach would be to inform those people that they were in the placebo group and then offer them their vaccine after the study is finished.

            If one of them dies from Covid after thinking they are safe – who will be responsible?

            Especially if they are giving them the false sense of security by providing them with vaccine passports.

            I think everyone here is starting to see the house of cards this is built on. Even Cian ;)

          8. U N M U T U A L

            @micko
            Weird right!?!
            UK gov/NHS don’t seem too concerned about the unvaxed mixing in with vaxed and yet the green pass is the path to freedom? Go figure…

          9. U N M U T U A L

            @cian
            Not sure your addressing what he said…

            Nadhim Zahawi as of 22/7/21, states that the two groups are, and will be validated as vaxed.

            “Her constituents can rest assured that those who are in clinical trials, including the Novavax trial, will have their data on the NHS covid app as being fully vaccinated, whether they are receiving the placebo or the vaccine, across all trials”

      2. SOQ

        @Cian Bars, restaurants, all shops and lower level schools in Sweden remained open throughout. Masks and social distancing was requested only for a very short period of time while on public transport.

        Given all the above- what lockdowns are you referring to?

        1. Cian

          @SOQ
          As you well know there were restriction on the numbers allowed in bars, restaurants, and shops and gyms.
          Any catering establishment that is located in a shopping centre, such as shopping malls, can only serve customers eating alone.
          No alcohol served after 8pm
          Catering establlishments and restaurants must close at 20.30 (8.30 pm)
          Higher level schools and universities were doing remote-lessons.
          municipalities in the country can prohibit people from being in places where there is a risk of crowding
          museums and cinemas were closed;
          Travel bans (incoming travellers)

          1. SOQ

            That was restrictions, not lockdowns. At no stage were people’s freedoms curtailed, nor were they unable to go about their daily business.

          2. GiggidyGoo

            I was about to rebuke you Cian for more disinformation (there weren’t lockdowns in Sweden). I see you’ve already been rebuked, and have retracted your statement.
            As far as i’m aware the Swedish Constitution doesn’t allow lockdowns.

  3. MR.Bezos

    Interesting news from US CDC – vaccinated people carry the same or more viral load when infected with covid, than unvaccinated people. Making them *more* infectious when they contract the virus.

    The risk of breakthrough infections is now thought to be much greater than previous also

    1. Movie Freak

      I’d rather be infectious than infected sweetheart.
      That’s why I took precautions.

      Us Double-Vaccinated soldiers ought to have a salute…
      …something like a V with both hands.

      I’m pretty sure someone will think of something.

      1. Micko

        “ I’d rather be infectious than infected sweetheart.”

        Funny how the “protect others” rhetoric has now morphed into ‘protect myself’

        This was always the truth of course, everything else you told yourself was a lie…

        Just like a good little soldier.

    2. Cian

      Link?

      This page on the CDC website says the opposite:

      Data from multiple studies in different countries suggest that people vaccinated with Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine who develop COVID-19 have a lower viral load than unvaccinated people.(41-44) This observation may indicate reduced transmissibility, as viral load has been identified as a key driver of transmission.(45) Two studies from the United Kingdom found significantly reduced likelihood of transmission to household contacts from people infected with SARS-CoV-2 who were previously vaccinated for COVID-19.(25, 46)

      https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

        1. Cian

          You said: Interesting news from US CDC – vaccinated people carry the same or more viral load when infected with covid, than unvaccinated people. Making them *more* infectious when they contract the virus.

          Neither of those links say that.

          The fist link says “What we’ve learned in that context, is when we examine the rare breakthrough infections and we look at the amount of virus in those people, it’s pretty similar to the amount of virus in unvaccinated people,”

          The second link doesn’t even mention vaccination. Did you post the right one?

          1. MR.Bezos

            My bad – the *more* infectious comment was a mistake. Some questionable studies put forward that idea but until they gain more traction they cant be trusted.

            CDC should be trustworthy enough though – vaccinated cases are just as infectious & similar viral load to unvaccinated.

            The breakthrough cases though still “rare” are considerably less rare now – new numbers on vaccine efficiency are coming out all the time – latest puts protection against contracting virus at ~80% compared to ~95+ for pre-delta strains. J&J and AZ are lower again.

          2. Cian

            To summarise.

            Vaccinated (Pfiser) people are 95% less likely than unvaccinated to contract pre-delta strains. The 1-in-20 that do get infected have similar viral loads – same level on infection to spread.

            Vaccinated (Pfiser) people are 80% less likely than unvaccinated to contract delta strains. The 1-in-5 that do get infected have similar viral loads – same level on infection to spread.

            Vaccination reduces transmission.

      1. f_lawless

        There’s a reference to a statement from the CDC director in this piece published yesterday
        https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/07/27/covid-vaccinated-americans-advised-wear-masks-again-what-that-means/5385279001/

        ‘The delta variant is showing every day its willingness to outsmart us and be an opportunist,” CDC director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said in a briefing Tuesday...According to the new science, she said, fully vaccinated people with breakthrough infections from the delta variant have a similar viral load to infections in unvaccinated people

        I see that link from the CDC website you posted was updated yesterday. Out of curiosity I had look on the internet archive “Wayback Machine” to see if changes were made regarding that sentence you quoted. The same sentence has existed in a similar form going months back but in yesterday’s update, reference numbers to different studies were added ie. (41-44) etc.

        But I checked the dates on when all those studies were published – they range from Jan to March 2021. This is before the advent of the Delta variant. One has to wonder what’s going on here. Did the statement from the CDC director spark panic in some political circles and now the CDC is under pressure to do something to put out the fires, so to speak? I remember last year when WHO scientist, Maria Van Kerkhove, stated that asymptomatic transmission of Covid was very rare. It set off a big controversy and a day later she retracted.

        1. Nigel

          ‘One has to wonder what’s going on here. Did the statement from the CDC director spark panic in some political circles and now the CDC is under pressure to do something to put out the fires, so to speak?’

          Speculate wildly? It’d be irresponsible NOT to!

    3. An older man

      Pfizer Jan 21 injections given in israel now only have 16% efficacy. Source UKs Dr John Campbell vid. Comedian Jimmy Dore reporting lingering adverse reaction. We are not a year in yet. Very interesting analysis on the negative attacks on Bret Weinsteins work. On a positive note Japan reporting a new drug for human trials to cure covid.

      1. Movie Freak

        Wow.
        Nobody ever claimed a Comedian as a ‘source’ before.

        It must be true.
        Nobody would say something like that if they weren’t legit, especially a Comedian.

        Comedy is Truth.

        1. SOQ

          Dr John Campbell

          Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) Teaching bioscience in national and international nurse education.

          MSc Health Science

          BSc Biology and health

          Diplomas / Certificates in Nursing, Tropical Diseases and pharmacology.

          And your education in this field is?

          1. MR.Bezos

            Recent data from CDC dismisses the theory that vaccinated people carry lower viral loads – statement from CDC director literally says as much

    4. Rosette of Sirius

      This will soon morph to a pandemic for the unvaccinated.

      The rest of us will get on with our lives happily jetting off hither, tither and yon. Wining and dining to our hearts content, spending time with family and friends and enjoying life as best as we can save for the travails and mundanity life throws our way. Many of us are doing so already.

      The intentionally unvaccinated will continue to moan, groan, shriek and shout. Probably right up until a ventilator shuts their gobby yaps up.

      I’m very glad that everyone in my circle – professionally and personally – are vaxxers meaning my life as it was is now almost fully back on rails.

      1. Nigel

        The rest of us include the immunocompromised and others who can’t take vaccines, it also may include lots of children if there’s hesitency about getting them vaccinated, so while the virus goes through the unvaccinated, we have to wait and see if that produces new variants and whether the vaccines can deal with them. Fun times.

  4. Movie Freak

    Leave the Anti-Vaxxers alone.
    They aren’t hurting you.
    Take a year off.

    Next year there wont be so many of them.
    It will be easier to talk sense to the ones who are still alive.

    (Some of them WILL survive… Get over it.)

    Stay Calm, Safe and Healthy.

  5. f_lawless

    Last week we had the CEO of the Saolta Hospital Group in Ireland, Tony Canavan, speaking on Morning Ireland:

    “most Covid cases – nearly all of the cases in fact – they are being admitted for other clinical reasons not to do with Covid-19”

    Astoundingly only now, at 18 months down the line, the Irish government have said they are “seeking better data on hospitalisations in order to better inform decision making. This includes details on the total number of positive cases in hospital, the number who contracted Covid while in hospital, and those being treated for Covid specifically.” according to a statement from a government spokesperson 2 days ago.

    Same story with RTE: only 2 days ago did they request this information from the HSE but no data has been forthcoming.

    And then we have this story from the UK:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/26/exclusive-half-covid-hospitalisations-tested-positive-admission/

    “More than half of Covid hospitalisations are patients who only tested positive after admission, leaked data reveal.

    The figures suggest vast numbers are being classed as hospitalised by Covid when they were admitted with other ailments, with the virus picked up by routine testing.

    Experts said it meant the national statistics, published daily on the government website and frequently referred to by ministers, may far overstate the levels of pressures on the NHS…

    ..”Nearly 18 months into the Covid crisis, it is absurd that data breaking down hospital admissions still isn’t publicly available on a regular basis.

    Counting all patients who test positive as Covid hospitalisations is inevitably misleading and gives a false picture of the continuing health impact of the virus.” ‘

    Anyone still capable of independent thought can see that there has been an ongoing attempt by authorities here and abroad to manipulate public perception.

    1. SOQ

      It’s medical malfeasance- there are no other words for it.

      There is a cartoon doing the rounds at the moment which highlights the indoctrination and brainwashing. It is a guy sitting in a surgery with an arrow though his head.

      The doctor says ‘it appears that the problem is the arrow in your head but we’ll do a covid test just to make sure’.

          1. Cian

            unless he was infected before he arrived and has now spread it through the non-covid ward.

    2. Nigel

      You do realise that regardless of whether they’re in for covid or in with covid, our hospitals filing up with covid-positive patients is a bit of a disaster one way or the other, right? It literally just takes a few seconds to think through the more obvious potential consequences and complications it causes, while I bet hospital staff could add a few more.

      1. SOQ

        The stat was presented as people who were in hospital BECAUSE of Covid-19. If they tested positive upon entrance for something else then they are not there because of it.

        This is a very important distinction because decisions about things like lockdowns was being made on those figures.

        1. Nigel

          I’m sure it is an important distinction, but I don’t see how it changes much – you’ve still got hospitals full of covid infected, a fact far more important than how the figures are being communicated.

          1. SOQ

            Because it was the difference between who was sick with it and who was not? It was crucial information.

          2. Nigel

            They’re highly infectious in a hospital full of staff and vulnerable patients. For feck’s sake.

    3. Cian

      “More than half of Covid hospitalisations are patients who only tested positive after admission, leaked data reveal.

      If a person is sick, was a close contact of a positive Covid case, is showing all the Covid symptoms, is admitted to hospital (but crucially, hasn’t been tested for Covid yet) . They subsequently test positive (after admission).

      Do they count as a “real” Covid admission? technically they “only tested positive after admission”…

      1. GiggidyGoo

        It’s down to the reason they were hospitalized. According to Varadkar, every admission to hospital was counted as Covid.

        1. Nigel

          Counting people in hospital with covid as being the number of people in hospital with covid? I get that the breakdown could have been clearer, but am I misremembering or did the figures not also usually include how many of the cases were serious or severe?

          1. GiggidyGoo

            Counting the number of people admitted to hospital for something other than covid I believe. Many actually caught covid while in hospital.

  6. Johnny

    is FFG determined to have absentee landords for all irish housing needs,it just is not going end well,Irish history teaches us that,the collapse of Ronan group and subsequent fire sales will saturate the irish market,RGRE’s main money partner Colony -(dont pick up the soap Tom,Tom)has been fire selling to get ahead these arrests.

    -the perfect encapsulated of NAMA and FFG’s collective failure is the 25 acre prime Dublin site,glass bottle site,tied up by deadbeat,dodgy middle east money Ronan and NAMA in some F…d up JV(joint venture)

    …come on down the price is right,from TOP to bottom,ain’t that right Lyons!

    who wants catch a falling knife,prime dub prop values about drop-Ronan was just off 100 million in his projections,only hot money,would believe his crap in first place,or a sucker like Tom Lyons.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/johnny-ronan-closing-in-on-220m-sale-of-dublin-docklands-apartments-1.4631745

    “UK-headquartered property investor Round Hill Capital is closing in on the purchase of 349 apartments and a 100-bed aparthotel being developed by Johnny Ronan’s Ronan Group Real Estate (RGRE) in Dublin’s north docklands.”

    1. GiggidyGoo

      It didn’t take long to find the ‘Oxford’ relationship.

      “The Cochrane Library Scientific Committee is the main decision making body to agree what methods are employed within Cochrane and advises the Editor in Chief. In making its judgements the Scientific Committee draws upon empirical evidence supported by expertise within the Cochrane community, and in particular its Methods Groups.”

      And on the committee is…….
      Jamie Hartmann-Boyce (University of Oxford, UK)

        1. GiggidyGoo

          I never heard of them before you introduced them. Not very well known are they? Are they a commercial outfit?
          Is there or is there not an Oxford connection?

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