Free Soon? [Updated]

at

Tonight.

Earlier…

This afternoon.

The Department of Education, Dublin 2.

RollingNews

Earlier…

Yes, but how free?, etc.

This afternoon.

Meanwhile….

Cartoon by Bob Moran

242 thoughts on “Free Soon? [Updated]

    1. Nigel

      Yes, because that is the worst thing he could possibly say! Kids who’ve had contact with positive cases STAY HOME! Get a test! High five from Dolores Cahill, I’m sure.

      1. SOQ

        You are kind of missing the point there Nigel (again). ONLY unvaccinated will be sent home- which is blatant coercion of course.

        1. Nigel

          Will they? Where is that coming from? My kid’s vaccinated, and if he comes into contact with a positive case, he’s definitely staying at home and getting a test. But even if that were the case, it would still be the correct thing to do to send unvaccinated kids home, or best of all, not sending them in the first bloody place!

          1. SOQ

            Read what Marcus said- unvaccinated will be SENT home but vaccinated will not.

            Whatever happened to cherishing all the children equally eh?

          2. Nigel

            Marcus said? Where did Marcus get it? How is sending a child who’s come into contact with a positive case to school cherishing ANYBODY?

          3. Clampers Outside

            What’s your plan for kids in the vulnerable category who cannot be vaccinated?
            Asking for my niece.

          4. Nigel

            Vaccinating the majority of the population who can be vaccinated would be the best outcome for people like that. I expect their parents REALLY don’t want kids who’ve had positive contacts being set to their school. Must be terrifying.

        2. Formerly known as @ireland.com

          @SOQ – I think the unvaccinated will be at a greater risk than the vaccinated. What do you think should happen?

          1. SOQ

            All the latest data suggest both are potentially equally as infectious- there should be no difference made.

          2. E'Matty

            both the vaccinated and unvaccinated are potential carriers and transmitters, and indeed both can still develop Covid, albeit an extremely low likelihood for either to do so. If safety and protection against spread is the actual aim, both should be sent home, both should be tested. There is no scientific basis for this clear attempt to treat the vaccinated as if they are totally immune, and the unvaccinated as “impure” plague carriers. The actual difference in real terms between the two is minscule, if at all, and either you are doing this to protect against the spread of the virus, and so all are treated as transmission risks, or you aren’t, and nothing happens with either. The reality is this simply exposes the clear attempt to create a two tier society expellling all who refuse to bow to this Orwellian attempt to coerce all to accept these vaccines. Get them if you want, but this attempt to force this on everyone in society, kids included, is outrageous.

          3. E'Matty

            also, kids are at almost no risk of developing Covid19 (in fact the overwhelming majority) will be completely asymptomatic. Studies show that only a tiny percentage of kids ever develop what is being called Long Covid and the vast majority of tehse recover fully within 8 weeks. There is no evidence to date that the vaccines have any impact on Long Covid.

          4. Nigel

            Jesus Christ you bloody well know it’s about relative risk, not about ‘completely immune’ or ‘plague carriers’ you pack of hysterical, lying clowns.

          5. E'Matty

            @ Nigel, yes it’s about relative risk and the difference between the two is miniscule and for transmission, actually not there at all. Yet, despite this, the government in their policies are acting like one set is totally immune (no testing or isolation for vaccinated close contacts despite the FACT they could be carrying the virus), whilst the unvaccinated are forced to undergo all such measures. There is no difference in real terms between the two justifying the difference in treatment if preventing transmission is the actual aim.

          6. K. Cavan

            When 100% of our children hadn’t had mRNA injected, 0% were at risk, since none died, so what is the basis of your assertion?

          7. Nigel

            I don’t know why you push this lie that risk to and from the vaccinated is the same as that to and from the unvaccinated, because the upshot would be the vaccine doesn’t work and we have to go back into lockdown until they develop a vaccine that does, especially with delta running around. That seems like the opposite of what you would want.

        3. Formerly known as @ireland.com

          @Clampers – As more people are vaccinated, the lower the chance that your niece will catch the virus. Vaccinated people are less likely to transmit the virus – that is the information I have. One of my children is vulnerable, too. I am doing everything I can to protect the child.

          1. E'Matty

            @ ” Vaccinated people are less likely to transmit the virus”. Not true. Vaccianted people are allegedly less likely to contract the virus but when they have, the latest CDC reports state that they have the same viral load in their respiratory tract as the unvaccinated meaning they pose the same transmission risk. Hence the CDC advice to mask back up again whether vaccinated or unvaccinated.

          2. E'Matty

            Thanks Micko, here’s more Clampers – https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html

            “On July 27, 2021, CDC released updated guidance on the need for urgently increasing COVID-19 vaccination coverage and a recommendation for everyone in areas of substantial or high transmission to wear a mask in public indoor places, even if they are fully vaccinated”

            “Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. Previous variants typically produced less virus in the body of infected fully vaccinated people (breakthrough infections) than in unvaccinated people. In contrast, the Delta variant seems to produce the same high amount of virus in both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people.”

            So, the only difference in viral load appears to be that it may reduce faster in the vaccinated reducing the time they are potential transmitters of the virus, but they still are as infectious for the initial period thereby destroying the argument for the completely different treatment of the vaccinated v the unvaccinated.

          3. Oro

            That is of course incorrect. Your likelihood to pass on the illness does not depend solely on your viral load, rather it is a product of several variables. It’s viral load x period of infectivity x likelihood to be infected in the first place.

            Vaccinated people are just under half as likely to be infected, and the period of infection is approx 3 days opposed to 10 days for unvaccinated.

            This would mean vaccinated people have a 15% rate of infectiousness as compared to the unvaccinated. Sorry!

            This is why there would be different rules – because the reality is that the rates are extremely different. Public health is about treating public health, not mollycoddling the misinformed emotional response of a bunch of whingers on the internet.

          4. Man On Fire

            ROFL..

            Literally nothing of use in any of those links, lots of “suggests” “likely” “researchers indicate”, and “not yet peer reviewed”..

            Carefully worded nonsense..

          5. Oro

            Yes rofl.

            Honestly I don’t work in the field and I’m not going to pretend like I know how to parse my way through all the info and know exactly what is to be taken seriously and what not but I do realize that expert virologists are one ahead of anon commenters and quacks on YouTube which is what we get from your side of the fence so I’m unbothered x.

          6. SOQ

            Oro won’t speak to Gráinne down the Dublin clap clinic- pretty sure he/she/poodle is not living in Ireland.

          7. Oro

            I don’t live in Ireland. I’ve mentioned this before. I was born in Ireland however and spent all of my formative years there. It’s not a secret, your ‘gotcha’ isn’t what you think it is.

            My living in Ireland wouldn’t affect my bothering some medical professional at their work for private info about their patients that I have no connection to. Sounds like it would verge on illegal if it was provided to me. You’ve a very strange relationship to other peoples personal information.

            I see your comment suggesting people posting from outside Ireland be blocked from the website was deleted, very #irelandfirst of you. And I thought you’d be all about free speech lol. Tbh based on your deletions and your propensity to get very personal with some info, you’d probably be more likely to get blocked than me.

            You’re as bolshie haha.

          8. Formerly known as @ireland.com

            Thanks for the info, folks. @Oro – 100% with you. Certainly, on the topic of a global pandemic the views of people, not just Irish people, are valid. I have been questioned about my interest in Ireland, too.

  1. Nigel

    ‘Threatening to send home unvaccinated kids if they are in contact with a positive case’

    The utter, reckless, irresponsible disingenuity. Turning completely necessary health measures into bullying. Vaccinated or unvaccinated, parents should not be sending kids to school if they’ve been in contact with a positive case!

    1. E'Matty

      fully agree. Parents should keep any child dispayaing symptoms, be they vaccinated or not, at home and not send them to school. If in school, and a kid displays symptoms, they should be sent home by the school, irrespective of their vaccine status. Close contacts of a confirmed case should also be sent home irrespective of their vaccination status.

      1. Lush

        Loathe though I am to get involved, I’ve had vaccinated friends test positive and they’ve done their 7 days quarantine.

        1. E'Matty

          anybody testing positive should isolate if prevention of transmission is the aim. Your friends did the right thing.

    2. K. Cavan

      Nigel, there is no such thing as a “positive case”, there is no way to test if someone is infected with any Coronavirus, no such technology exists, so you’re the one brandishing the “utter, reckless, irresponsible disingenuity”.
      RTPCR tests are useful in laboratory situations, where a lab rat or mouse is infected with an infectious agent, perhaps with injection in the foot & a sample from further up the leg will be taken, after a specific time period, to ascertain how fast the infection spreads up the limb. In those situations, it’s known that the lab conditions assure the scientists that no other infectious agents which would cause a positive are present.
      Out in the real world, where all animals ingest billions of infectious agents by the hour, they are about as useful as one of your hysterical, ill-informed comments.
      Cut the crap, I don’t know that much about Virology but I know enough to know that you know nothing, nada, not a sausage.

      1. Nigel

        ‘there is no such thing as a “positive case”’

        ‘I don’t know that much about Virology’

        Probably should lay off the sweeping counterfactuals that seems to be at odds with actual virology, then.

          1. Nigel

            Tell, me, what would actual virologists think of your assertion that there are no ‘positive cases?’ Seems like something they would have strong opinions on.

          2. K. Cavan

            Nigel, you understand nothing about RTPCR tests. They do not test for the presence of a virus and they have “no clinical function” (quote from the inventer). Do you understand what the term “Clinical Function” means?
            No Viroligist would disagree with this. Certain viruses, Measles for example, can be tested for but even that does not detect the virus, just a known side-effect. There is no test for Coronaviruses or any other virus, this is not Star Trek, stop being foolish, no scientist has ever even seen a Coronavirus or any virus, ever & there are dozens of viruses, including four endemic Coronaviruses, which will trigger a positive RTPCR test, especially those done in hastily-assembled factories, with untrained staff.
            I am far less ignorant of Virology than you yet I limit my comments to aspects of Virology that I do know about. I certainly know enough to be sure that you are entirely & completely ignorant of what you dare to make assertions about, on behalf of Virologists.
            Even the media has repeatedly asserted that 80% of “positive” tests are “asymptomatic”. Logically, this means either 80% pre-existing Herd Immunity (almost possible) or a 20% accuracy rate, as you cannot be infected & remain asymptomatic for long.
            Anyone basing any decision or even opinion on a test with 20% accuracy is an idiot.

  2. redzer

    Why is this dangerous stuff being continually posted by Bodger always by the one contributor – why do the other contributors allow it when all it does is damage Broadsheet’s reputation?

    BS SEZ: As we’ve said many times, Bodger’s views are his own and do not reflect the views of Broadsheet or other contributors to Broadsheet.

    1. SOQ

      In what twilight world is it where parents demanding the right to decide what their children are injected with ‘dangerous stuff’?

      1. Nigel

        Parents have, in fact, the right to determine whether their kids get vaccinated or not. Pushing aginst an open door just making lots of noise and pretending its stuck.

          1. E'Matty

            @Nigel, – though it would appear the government is following an agenda of trying to treat the unvaccinated as deadly carriers of the virus, whilst the vaccinated are to be treated as if totally immune. Neither is based in reality. The proposed sending home of only unvaccinated close contacts is just the latest attempt to coerce such parents, to vilify demonise the unvaccinated, and to force all in society to accept these vaccines. There is no question that the government is seeking to coerce the entire popaultiojn of this country (over 12 at present) to recevie these vaccines. They are already starting to talk about the younger age cohort. It’s complete insanity but yet people just accept it as ok.

          2. Nigel

            It is certainly government policy to promote and facilitate vaccination, and it is certainly the case that they have been succesful and the policy has broad public support, and it is certainly the case that in order to acheive a partial reopening certain restrictions have been put in place – which do not, by the way, apply to under 12s – and it is certainly the case that a vocal minority who refuse to accept that we are in a public health emergency are using whatever specious arguments they can come up with to undermine public health measures, and it is ceratinly the case that they ignore the principle of risk mangement and risk reduction in favour of absolute terms like ‘total immunity’ and ‘plague carriers’ quite a lot, and it is certainly true that this is dishonest and even dangerous.

          3. Micko

            “It’s complete insanity but yet people just accept it as ok.”

            In the Dutch psychiatrist Joost Meerloo’s 1956 book ‘The Rape of the Mind, he put forward the idea that, as societies go through more and more increasing waves of extraordinary fear and doubt, the moral fabric of said society goes downhill and the general population will go along with more and more immoral acts.

            Bit of background:
            Meerloo was a medical doctor in the armed forces when the German army invaded The Netherlands in May 1940, the same armed forces that briefly resisted the Wehrmacht. After the bombing of Rotterdam and the Dutch surrender that followed, he joined the resistance and spent the next two years trying to stay out of the hands of the Germans. He was eventually arrested but made a lucky escape and eventually managed to reach England.

            He saw first hand of the crimes the Nazi’s were able to convince people to take part in and sought to understand how such a thing could happen to normal people.

          4. Nigel

            ‘as societies go through more and more increasing waves of extraordinary fear and doubt, the moral fabric of said society goes downhill and the general population will go along with more and more immoral acts.’

            So, in the context of a global pandmeic with a highly contagious airborne virus, does the fear and doubt eroding soceity’s moral fabric manifest as communities coming together to act in a manner consistent with the best available thinking on public health measures, or in a stark denial of the danger and the refusal and rejection of those measures in favour of a fierce and extreme individualism?

          5. Clampers Outside

            “best available thinking” on public health measures?

            Yet, the ‘authority’ in world health, the WHO, has never advocated for lockdowns and is still to this day saying there should be different measures taken than lockdowns.
            So, who are these “best available thinking” types that are advising lockdowns?

            My point…. I really don’t believe the “best available thinking” is being applied at all.
            No, I don’t have the answer, but I can see “best available thinking” is a wish, rather than a fact.

            ( Please note: the WHO who prior to COVID19 advised against lockdowns. I thought they flip flopped when COVID19 arrived and was advising lockdowns. But, that was wrong, the reports I’ve read, easily googled, show the WHO has never advocated lockdowns. So who is advising them? Where is this “best available thinking” coming from….?
            NPHET? Who is advising them, or who made them experts? How the hell would they know better than the WHO? )

          6. Clampers Outside

            I’m not really directing that at yourself Nigel, it’s more a general comment on any belief anyone may have that “best thinking” is being practiced.

          7. Micko

            “highly contagious” but not highly deadly. You agree? What is the current IFR?

            Interesting that you mention individualism.

            Since you brought it up I’m assuming that you’ve read quite a bit on it – would you class yourself an “extreme collectivist” then?

            What do you think of Jung’s writing on individualism and collectivism, in general and the idea of the individual as one who chooses not to be limited by collective norms?

            And who would you put forth as a personal champion of collectivism?

            And since we’re talking about the moral argument

            Is it moral to give healthy children an emergency use medicine they statistically do not need when so many in the world in poorer countries are crying out for help?

            Here’s Paul Reid only 3 hours ago patting himself on the back after receiving 540K doses

            Does that represent 540K people who potentially could have been saved abroad?

            https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1427942846464729092?s=20

          8. Nigel

            It’s like we’re back at the start of the pandemic. A highly contagious virus with small percentage morality racks up a fairly massive body count, to say nothing of long covid and overwhelmed hospitals and people who are intrinsically vulnerable.

            I am not an ‘extreme collectivist.’ Jumping to that conclusion is quite presumptious. A pandemic is an extreme situation that requires an extreme response, and the most appropriate and effective sort of response is ‘collectivist,’ if you want to call it that. So this is not a ‘norm.’ This is an exception. Expressing individualism by ignoring best available scientific advice to protect yourself and others – wearing masks, getting vaccinated, locking down – purely to express your own individualism is narcissistic and self-destructive in equal measure.

            Is it moral to reduce the question of whether a child should receive a vaccination to a false dilemma? Parents and guardians should be free to make an informed choice about whether to vaccinate their children. People in the global south should have access to vaccines. it’s not either/or.

          9. Micko

            “requires an extreme response”

            Do you think we are still in an extreme situation that warrants that extreme response though?

            I don’t – very few people are dying. when does it end for us?

            I didn’t mean to put you on the spot regards individualism, I’ve noticed that you’ve mentions “extreme individualism” before and was genuinely interested in who you would put forth as as your champion of the alternative.

            Personally I believe that when the collective has stagnated, individualism is the only way our of an extreme situation. only individuals can make real change. Crowds and crowd mentality cannot.

            I’m completely paraphrasing Le Bon there, but you get the idea. :)

            Would you agree thought that the situation in Ireland has stagnated though?

            How long are we in the “two more weeks are crucial” stage – it seems like forever? Cases have been over 1K since mid July and were dropping since January,

            Perhaps “extreme individualism” is what IS needed now. (if not before)

            The UK and our family up North are leaving us behind.

            And I agree “Parents and guardians should be free to make an informed choice about whether to vaccinate their children” and they should not be punished for their choice either way.

            Which has not been proposed yet – but like most things in this pandemic (Vaccine ID’s, etc) – It probably will be.

          10. E'Matty

            It should be noted that the worst crimes against humanity (the Holocaust, the Soviet purges, Mao’s Greap Leap Forward, Pol Pot and the Khmer rouge reign of terror etc..) of the past century have all been perpetrated by Collectivist regimes. The rights of the individual are subverted and subjgated to the claimed common interest (who gets to decide the common good/interest? The State?). The advance of western civilisation this past 400 years since the Age Enlightenment has been based on the idea that the collective is best served by protecting individual rights, the collective being made up of individuals. We are now going directly backwards after so much progress.

          11. Nigel

            The Nazis weren’t collectivist (neither am I – uh-oh!), but what were the Scramble For Africa, the genocides of the colonisation of the Americas, the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan? Were they all individualist atrocities?

            Anyay, I think that socities can respond collectively to threats or crises without endangering individual liberties. If I didn’t I’d pretty much give up on society altogether. Any threat to individual liberty actualised in the course of the pandemic will be the result of pre-existing tendencies that will act opportunisitcally in any crisis. This does not make the crisis fake, nor the collective response wrong. It means we need to pay attention to the dangers posed by those tendencies while acting responsibly towards the dangers of the pandemic.

            Capitalism does love a crisis to deprive workers of rights and strip regulations from industries and the flow of money. Brexit and Trump are both manifestations of fake, media-driven crises leading to disastrous outcomes that somehow came dressed up as expressions of individual and national liberty. The same sort of fakeness that gave us Qanon and blue passports is giving us the crisis of a fake pandemic to take away our freedoms.

          12. Micko

            That’s all well and good Nigel, but I’m trying to stay focussed on what is occurring now and leave the past of the pandemic there and not bringing in any other criticisms of capitalism, Brexit or Trump or similar.

            So again I would push you these questions.

            Would you agree that the Covid situation in Ireland has stagnated?

            And do you think we are still in an extreme situation that warrants an extreme response?

          13. Nigel

            Clampers – yes the initial response was in disarray and conflicting partly because of uncertainty about the nature of the disease, and Chinese secrecy and the WHO didn’t help there, and partly because countries had neglected pandemic preparation at a national and international level, and because for global leadership we had the likes of Trump and Johnson, so the best available thinking was collated and deveolped on the fly in those conditions. It was messy, and it was vulnerable people in nursing homes that bore the brunt.

          14. Clampers Outside

            Not the “best available thinking” driving action then. That’s my point. Best to not use such a phrase imo, as it assumes alternatives were properly looked at.

          15. Nigel

            micko:, ah, yes, I should have guessed you wanted to stay focused on the present by the way you invoked the Holocaust and Mao and the rest.

            – feck, just realised I mixed up Micko’s and e’matty’s comments, sorry to you both, disregard the above Micko –

            ‘Would you agree that the Covid situation in Ireland has stagnated?’

            No. Vaccinations are proceeding and we’ve partially reopned. Progress.

            ‘And do you think we are still in an extreme situation that warrants an extreme response?’

            We are in the process of winding down our extreme response, and hopefully we will continue to do so.

            I see nothing that ‘extreme individualism’ can offer in this siutation that patience and forebearance couldn’t acheive just as well.

          16. E'Matty

            @Nigel – “The Nazis weren’t collectivist”. Eh, yes they were. The Nazis attempted to convince all parts of German society to subordinate their personal interests to the “common good”, accepting political interests as the main priority of economic organisation, which tended to match the general outlook of collectivism or communitarianism rather than economic socialism.

          17. Micko

            Personally I believe “that patience and forebearance” is crippling our society still and is damaging us – possibly permanently.

            Of course this is anecdotal, but I personally know of four individuals who have been seriously damaged by this experience and are all suffering some type of Covid anxiety syndrome or general anxiety related to germs / Covid, anxiety over dying with Covid / dying in a hospital alone.

            Across the age ranges too, from ages 6 – 64.

            All were perfectly fine pre pandemic.

            This has broken people and the longer it goes on it’s going to get worse.

            Never mind the people evicted / lost their business / can’t pay mortgages.

            So while you think that patience is the key and that it may suit you – others are tearing their fupping hair out with worry.

            And some of them are marching in the pics above.

          18. Nigel

            ‘The Nazis attempted to convince all parts of German society to subordinate their personal interests to the “common good”’

            Having a rigidly enforced authoritarian ideology is not the same as collectivism. For feck’s sake. The Nazis privatised every public service they got hold of – pure corporate capitalism. The German people did not in any sense collectively ‘own’ the factories, farms, businesses or properties. They were expected to work hard and make sacrifices for the glory of the Fatherland, but that was nationalism. Churchill used patriotic nationalism to rally the British to work hard and make sacrifices for their country too. You could call it a collective effort, but it’s not what what’s understood as collectivism.

      2. Daisy Chainsaw

        The kind of parents who still believe Andrew Wakefield’s bullpoo.

        The kind of parents who’d rather have a dead child than an autistic one.

        1. E'Matty

          on Andrew Wakefield, Dr Andrew Zimmerman Professor of Paediatric Neurology at Massachusetts Medical school, who had previously acted as a witness for the US DOJ in the 2007 case where they had sought to dismiss links betwen autism and the MMR vaccin, had offered a revised position which stated that vaccines may in fact cause autism in a subset of children with pre-existing mitochondrial disorder. He was dropped by the DOJ from the case and the DOJ continued to use his old affidavit without clarifying that he had in fact identified a link. It is genetic subgroups that seem to be impacted, as was seen with Pandemrix where it was kids with the Nordic “Viking” gene who were most impacted by the neurological disorder narcolepsy.

        2. SOQ

          So in your mind parents who concerns about injecting their children with an experimental treatment with no long term safety data are all “anti vaxxers”? Yeah that figures- such a simplistic world eh?

          Make no mistake- this is the hill that many parents will die on, and nobody will blame them for it. Children don’t get sick from CoVid-19, there is no reason to be putting their health at risk- absolutely NONE.

          1. Daisy Chainsaw

            “this is the hill that many parents will die on”

            And possibly some of their children.

          2. SOQ

            Given that vaccine injuries are set to outstrip CoVid-19 for that particular demographic- yes probably.

    2. K. Cavan

      In what way is it dangerous, redzer, say, compared to injecting children with a substance that will quite possibly kill them, ostensibly to protect them from a virus which can’t kill them?
      Take your time.

      1. redzer

        “In what way is it dangerous, redzer, say, compared to injecting children with a substance that will quite possibly kill them, ostensibly to protect them from a virus which can’t kill them?
        Take your time.”

        It’s dangerous because Covid-19 spreads prodigious and kills. I work in the medical sector and have seen how rapidly it spreads and I’ve seen it kill people.

        Now, tell me how many people have died from the vaccine in Ireland? There have been 3.1 million vaccinations completed at this point (17th August).

        Take your time.

    3. K. Cavan

      You call comments, words & pictures dangerous, redzer, yet you support the exposure of children to the most toxic substance ever injected into human beings, allegedly to protect them against a virus which poses no danger to them? My God, you truly have a twisted moral compass & a bizarre disregard for life.

      1. Papi

        “the most toxic substance ever injected into human beings”

        Is it any wonder you guys get ridiculed?

  3. Nigel

    It’s actually breathtaking that Bodger would platform such an incredibly dangerous, counter-productive, anti-public health statement, never mind the clownish self-dramatising of the second poster. I don’t remember anyone questioning the necessity of people who’ve come into contact with positive cases to self-isolate and get a test, but now, suddenly, we’re here? This is actively trying to sabotage the health and safety of children, teachers and families. Incredible.

    1. Nigel

      BS SEZ: Bodger’s views are his own and do not reflect the views of Broadsheet or other contributors to Broadsheet.

      1. Nigel

        If you’re going to edit my comments to add comments of your own, at least leave the original comment there so people can see the exchange. These disclaimers aren’t even a sticking plaster – Bodger’s posts and the views therein dominate Broadhseet, set the tone, set the ethos. I’ve always enjoyed arguing over out-there stuff like Qanon, so I can’t complain, but this instance is straight-up dangerous.

      2. Sten

        Fine BS, you can take that line but would you take the same line if a contributor would post several times a day to say that modern cancer treatment is all a scam and that you should take Ivermectin instead? I mean fine, a contributor’s views are his or her own but when the contributor is repeatedly posting what is essentially propaganda against public health measures, then BS is implicitly supporting the view.

        If it’s just a contributor thing, why not add a contributor who is showing the other side of the story with as much prominence? I mean why not publish the stories from people who have recovered, the front line medical workers who can testify that it’s not just a common cold or flu, publish the views and opinions of qualified doctors, virologists and immunologists who will explain and rationalise the public health initiatives?

        By providing a platform only for (let’s be honest) the marginal view of a few, you are amplifying that view and potentially undermining public health initiatives. If you read through the comments section (including Bodger’s own comments) it’s clear that some of these beliefs are very left field (and in my view lack real credibility) so why give them so much prominence without promoting the opposing viewpoint?

        1. Bodger

          Sten, I sincerely believe this is a crime against humanity. I have no doubt whatsoever. I know I represent a tiny minority, but every press outlet supports your view, and dissenting voices need to be heard.

          1. Sten

            @Bodger I have no doubt that your views are honestly held. I don’t think that you are posting with some ulterior motive, you truly believe there is evil at work here so far as I can tell.

            At the same time, as you acknowledge yourself, it really is a very tiny proportion of people who share your world view. However there is a wider range of people that have levels of doubt on the HSE/gov/establishment approach. Obviously there’s no issue with that, it’s a free world, and I’m also sceptical on some topics. What I see happening though is that people become swayed to be vaccine hesitant or against mask wearing (just as examples) not because they have a similar world view to you, but because of some other (often spurious) reason. It’s like a propaganda war that you are waging, and because you believe the other side is evil, then it’s ok to promote and platform views and opinions that are anti establishment, even if you don’t agree with them yourself or they are inconsistent with your own world view (you can’t possibly believe every view you publish or your own world view would be completely incoherent). This seems like an information war that you are fighting and by throwing enough mud you hope some will stick. I think a lot of people would make a different assessment on your posts if they understood your background world view/opinion.

            To me that’s a dishonest approach. It’s basically tricking vulnerable people. I really do respect your right to have an alternative view and opinion and I think it’s not right to de-platform it. I don’t respect an ‘Information war’ approach though of scattergun chucking mud and hoping some mud will stick.

          2. Daisy Chainsaw

            Are you getting your info from your Qanon pals? How’s Trump routing out the paedos going?

          3. Formerly known as @ireland.com

            Please confirm that you will refuse medical assistance if you get sick. All your anti-vaxx or ‘it is only a flu’ mates should do the same.

            It is difficult to understand how you are OK with all the science that got you to this point in your life but you are questioning the science to fight a virus that has killed millions.

          4. SOQ

            Oh so people can drink. smoke and eat rubbish to excess AND receive treatments but it is only those who have reservations to an experimental injection who should have treatment refused then is it?

            Don’t you see how programmed you have become to even think like that?

          5. Nigel

            ‘I know I represent a tiny minority,’

            That’s because you’re wrong, and the tiny minority is wrong. But your outlook dominates on this site.

          6. Cui Bono?

            Thanks again for sharing the other voices Bodger.

            I also believe that these are crimes against humanity. The propaganda from the media has been so intense but very very slowly more people are realising this every day.

          7. Nigel

            So – are the other voices of Bodger, SOQ, Bono, Marcus all in favour of children who have had contact with a positive case going to school? Anyone else?

          8. Higgles

            I’ve never commented on this site but I just want to say keep it up Bodger. I’ve had Covid, still have antibodies, not getting jabbed because why would I? This is the only site I can stomach for news at the moment. Everywhere else I’m being hit on the head with the Vaccine hammer, and being talked to like I’m some kind of idiot/ infant/ enemy of the state. I also think what’s happening is sinister, and the self righteous know it alls cheering it on might be the most depressing thing about it.

          9. Micko

            “That’s because you’re wrong, and the tiny minority is wrong.”

            Ooooh there’s that absolute certainty again Nigel.
            Not a good look sir…

            “One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.” ― Bertrand Russell

          10. Nigel

            Apparently thinking one thing is right and another thing is wrong is ‘absolute certainty.’ Does that mean you have to think you are right and wrong at the same time, and that I am right and wrong at the same time as well, so Bertrand Russell won’t call you stupid?

          11. Bodger

            Speaking of Bert: “At present the population of the world is increasing at about 58,000 every day. War, so far, has had no great effect on this increase, which continued throughout each of the world wars…. War has hitherto been disappointing in this respect…but perhaps a bacteriological war may prove more effective. If a Black Death could be spread throughout the world once in every generation, survivors would be free to procreate freely without making the world too full.” (Bertrand Russell, 1951).

          12. Bodger

            Russell added: “This state of affairs may be somewhat unpleasant, but what of it? Really high minded people are indifferent to happiness, especially other people’s.”

          13. SOQ

            @Formerly- that is manipulative bs- I have personally lost two friends to cancer, one who had the diagnosis delayed and one who had treatment delayed. In both cases there was no peak CoVid-19 demand- it was hospital workers looking after themselves.

            In case you haven’t noticed, preventable conditions like heart disease are way more common than CoVid-19 yet its only unvaccinated who get the blame- which is a complete double standard and as I said, programmed.

          14. Micko

            No Nigel.

            It just means that you should open yourself up to the idea that you and what we are doing may be wrong.

            Especially when it comes to kids.

          15. Nigel

            SOQ you’re not making sense. Lifestyle factors that effect people’s health are not contagious, and can be adressed directly with the patient one on one. Meanwhile to protect friends and family with cancer and hasten the end of this pandeic so that their treatments can be sorted out and not threatened by further outbreaks GET VACCINTAED.

          16. Nigel

            ‘It just means that you should open yourself up to the idea that you and what we are doing may be wrong.’

            I’m never not open to the possibility that I’m wrong. Neither you nor any other like-minded commenters here have come within an asses’ roar of persuading me that they’re right.

            ‘Especially when it comes to kids.’

            Maybe I’m not being open-minded or self-doubting enough for you or Bertrand, but I’m pretty sure that I’m right that kids that have had a positive contact shouldn’t be in school until they get a negative test. Am I wrong?

          17. Frank

            And thank you Bodger for kicking against the winkies (pun intended).
            The pile on here is astonishing and quite frighting in my opinion!

            The testing regime in the UK for schoolchildren is absurd. Please, please don’t let that happen here

          18. Formerly known as @ireland.com

            @SOQ – Nobody said the hospital system was perfect before Covid. However, Covid places a strain on it. Therefore, if people have the opportunity to avoid getting Covid and thus taking up a limited resource, they should. If they choose not to take the vaccine, why do they trust medicine to treat them? All the other drugs and treatments could be just as experimental, just as profitable for big pharma, just as scary, etc. Nobody is forced to take the vaccine but don’t accept treatment if you catch Covid.

          19. SOQ

            Either you apply the same standards right across the board or not at all- otherwise it is DOUBLE standards. And besides, given the data coming out of Israel where near of the sick are now vaccinated, the whole poo show is falling apart anyways.

            And the sooner the better.

          20. Nigel

            ‘otherwise it is DOUBLE standards’

            Different conditions getting different treatments iis hypocrisy and discrimination? This has to be peak pandemic-truther.

            ‘given the data coming out of Israel’

            New Zealand as exemplar bad, Israel as exemplar good.

          21. SOQ

            But its not different, that is the point. People who are vaccinated can still be infectious so there is no communitarian argument- it is all about personal choices.

            In this case being super judgey about one thing while not others- as I said complete double standards.

          22. Nigel

            Yes, they’re the same if you ignore the fact that the vaccine reduces your chances of catching and transmitting the virus.

            Noody’s being judgey about it, them’s just the facts.

          23. SOQ

            There may be some level of inoculation yes but it is nowhere near what has been claimed- otherwise why is the infection rates so high in countries with near blanket vaccination levels?

            That fact they are now talking about booster shots is an admission that over a relatively short period of time, what ever efficacy there is wanes very quickly.

          24. SOQ

            Do I have to keep a record of every single thing I type on this site before it is modified? As above-

            THE fact they are now talking about booster shots is an admission that over a relatively short period of time, what ever efficacy there is wanes very quickly.

            Stop playing stupid juvenile head games?

        2. K. Cavan

          Sten, that opening paragraph is one of the finest examples of the Strawman fallacy I’ve ever come across & it has to be acknowledged that the Covid Cultists are the greatest purveyors of logical fallacies I’ve yet encountered.
          Well done you, any pretence at rational debate cast aside in seconds.

  4. Daisy Chainsaw

    Woot! Another failed fash rally to laugh at.

    Did you crop the end off the poster so nobody would find out what shower of dregs are organising this?

  5. Patrick F

    Am I the only one who remembers when Gemma O’Doherty was given free reign in these pages? Then she was dropped without comment from Broadsheet.ie. Now her vaccine denier friends are promoted. WTF?!

    1. Daisy Chainsaw

      Maybe the aliens, or the 5G, or the Chinese robot police have done a mindmeld between GemGems and Bodger. Might explain his ongoing love of fash rallies.

      1. Cui Bono?

        The usual propagandised parroting from the covid cult.

        The only people who talk about Gemma, 5G, or Qanon, are you lot.

        1. E'Matty

          “The only people who talk about Gemma, 5G, or Qanon, are you lot.” How true. The Branch Covidians always parrot the same lines because these are their media conditioned retorts, such as their utterly ridiculous view that anyone questioning the Covid narrative is some kind of “Far Right” extremist. The media has demonised and vilifed dissenters and these guys just swallow it up whole.

          1. Nigel

            You literally think the pandemic is part of a plot to cull the global population. And that “literally’ is not figurative.

          2. E'Matty

            I have stated that it is an agenda of total population control, in all of its guises. From direct surveillance to the very real possibility of direct physical control of the mind (see Delgado). What you fail to realise is that these concepts are not so outlandish and are actually par for the course amongst the predator class. Our culture is even replete with the imagery and stories of this fabled future world (see Metropolis as a prime example, with Brave New World (Huxely), or The Open Conspiracy (HG Wells) etc a sother wlel know examples). As for the population cull, I really really hope not, but one simply cannot ignore how to the fore this Malthusian idea of overpopualtion is amongst this predator class (gates is absolutely obsessed with it). They have even convinced much of the public that we have a serious global overpopulation issue.

          3. Nigel

            Culling us by releasing a virus, then going into lockdown to stop the spread of the virus, then developing a vaccine to protect us aginst the virus… this plan has flaws.

          4. Micko

            “this Malthusian idea of overpopualtion is amongst this predator class (gates is absolutely obsessed with it). They have even convinced much of the public that we have a serious global overpopulation issue.”

            Urrrgh that Malthus guy…

            I’m sure you’ve all seen it but the late great Hans Rosling did a great rebuttal to that idea in Don’t Panic.

            Always a good watch when you think things are going bad ;)

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FACK2knC08E

          5. E'Matty

            @ Micko cheers Micko. Malthusisan principles are completely abhorent but really took hold of the British ruling class in 19th Century, early 20th century. It’s interesting to note the connections between many of these key players. Darwins Theory of Evolution was heavily influenced by Malthus. Darwins Bulldog TH Huxley, was considered the Father of Science and was an ardent supporter of Darwins ideas (though he actually privately had reservations about some). TH Huxley mentored HG Wells, who was a mentor and friend of Huxleys son’s Julian and Aldous. Aldous wrote Brave New World (Wells wrote the Open Conspiracy and A New World Order). Julian led the British Eugenics Society and was a founding member of the World Wildlife Fund (with Prince Bernard of the Netherlands, himself a former Nazi officer and founder of the Bilderberg Group) and created UNESCO. The British Eugenics Society and the Fabian society keep coming up when researching these eugenics minded elitists. One only has to watch the video of Bernard Shaw, a Fabian member, giving his Nazi salutes before embarking on a really disturbing speech about each person having to explain annually before a Committee their value as a human. If they could not justify their existence (what metrics to apply, who knows, unlikely to include kindness or charity), they should be executed in his view. This is actually the mindset and view of many of the predator class.

            Anecdotally, I was on holidays in Greece as a child and my family shared a minbus from our hotel (quite an exclusive one on Mykonos) and a very wealthy looking gent with a rather attarctive much younger model girlfriend engaged with my father, clearly believing him part of the same class due to his high position in the business world. This guy explained to my father, and much to our utter shock, how he and his girlfirend had been on a “seal clubbing holiday”. He said it with such delight, as if he had been on a sailing holiday. He then went on to say that it was necessary to cull them, and that we really should be applying the same approach more directly to the human population. My dad grimaced, made his excuses and moved seats. Weird, very weird, but this mindset is all prevalent at a certain level of global society. People simply do not appreciate how different the ruling class actually are.

          6. Micko

            Very interested Matty. I always meant to read a Brave New World – I know the gist but never got around to it.

            I think it was made into a TV series recently actually.

            Bit mad how they are all connected alright and a glimpse into their mindsets.

            Wasn’t there a connection between Huxley and Orwell as well – I could be remembering that wrong and don’t really want to google it. ;)

            Seal clubbing holiday eh? – Jesus H Christ :-O

          7. Bodger

            Micko, Huxley apparently taught Orwell French at Eton. He congratulated him on 1984 but said Orwell’s hypothesis – control through violence – was incorrect and insisted the future he himself predicted in Brave New World – we would learn to love our medicated servitude – would happen.

          8. Micko

            Ah that was it. I knew there was some connection in the back of my brain – Cheers

            And yes – Soma for everyone!

            Yummy…

          1. Man On Fire

            I’m not trying to be funny, you accused me of being GiggidyGoo yesterday. For no apparent reason. Either it was a plain weak response or he lives in your head.

    2. Kdoc

      Maybe she dropped Broadsheet. She has her own paper now. She not only wants to be the leader of her own pack, she wants to be the leader of all the packs. That’s why she has dropped Rowan, Ben, Dee, Angela, Dolores, Glenn, Graham, Justin and a host of other chancers. (There’s huge competition among the grifters to get the Lion’s share of the readies.) Personally, I think she’s a busted flush. The only ally she has remained faithful to is Waters.

  6. Des

    Children dont need to be vaccinated. There are plenty of people in other countries who need these vaccines more.

    1. SOQ

      And that’s the core issue now isn’t it? Something so human as a parent wanting to protect their children is being presented as some sort of extremist political statement. It is deceitful and dishonest.

      1. Nigel

        Sending your child to school after they’ve come into contact with a postivie case is pretty extreme, like turning your child into a biological weapon out of petulance and entitlement.

        1. SOQ

          Do you even think before you type?

          This is about children being SENT HOME from school- not knowingly going to it after being exposed.

          1. Nigel

            How could that possibly come about except through a parent knowingly sent a kid who has had contact to school? If one child is being sent home for that reason, ALL the kids they’ve come into contactat at the school with will have to be sent home. The school will have to close until everyone’s tested. That’s a worst case scenario.

  7. Whatever

    For children, the risk of an adverse reaction to the vaccine is greater than any risk from covid. This is from the HSE’s own guidance. This is fact.

    Risk vs Benefit.
    Risk outweighs the benefit.

    Anything else is just irrelevant noise.

        1. Sten

          @Whatever I think the HSE is promoting vaccines to under 18s because for the population as a whole, it’s better to have as many vaccinated as possible. This is the view even if the risks at an individual level might not be well balanced.

          So that’s my view. Why don’t you tell us yours?

          1. Whatever

            So you want to use children as a human shield.

            Call it what you like but that’s what you’re doing, you want children to take a vaccine where the risks outweigh the benefit for them, all for YOUR perceived benefit.

            Disgusting and cowardly doesn’t come close

          2. SOQ

            Exactly.

            If you want to risk a child’s health so that you can feel safe and you can feel secure then you are the problem- not a coronavirus.

            Selfish doesn’t even begin to describe it.

          3. Oro

            Seems like you’re the one more willing to risk children’s health for your own dogma than what you’re suggesting. Never not spinning lies!

            “Yes. Experts, including those at Johns Hopkins, believe that the benefits of being vaccinated for COVID-19 outweigh the risks. Although COVID-19 in children is usually milder than in adults, some kids can get very sick and have complications or long-lasting symptoms that affect their health and well-being. The virus can cause death in children although this is rarer than for adults.”

            https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid19-vaccine-what-parents-need-to-know%3famp=true

          4. Sten

            @Whatever @SOQ I didn’t say this my view, just that I believe that this is the HSE’s reasoning. They have taken an overall population view that there will be less deaths and illness in total population with this approach. You can agree or not with the approach (& I agree it’s a subjective matter, no definitive right or wrong) and vaccines are not mandatory.

            Now, I’ve stated my understanding of why the HSE is rolling out vaccination to under 18s. Can you explain what you think the reason is?

          5. Whatever

            I can’t reply to your last update so this one will have to do. I don’t care to understand the HSE’s reasoning for promoting the vax for children.

            My reason why, is experience. Saint Tony and the HSE promoted pandremix for 2 years AFTER there were well known safety issues with it flagged, and even after many other countries halted their vax campaign. And we’ve already paid out 4.5 million euro in damages with a lot more to come. My 2nd cousin is one case awaiting hearing. She developed narcolepsy almost immediately after the jab.

            But it seems that lessons are never learned.

            https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k3948

      1. Micko

        It’s a very unusual approach the HSE is taking.

        I see that the HSE have removed the text from their website that only last week said “1 in 100,000 children who get Covid 19 have to go to hospital”.

        They updated the page yesterday.

        This information was being shared widely on social media.

        Why would the HSE a) publish it if it wasn’t accurate and b) subsequently remove it?

        They infer that it’s a “new report” published on Aug 13th, but that report doesn’t contain any info about hospitalisations for kids that I can see.

        It just has info about cases earlier in the year.

        Does anyone have anymore info?

        Current page
        https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/get-the-vaccine/deciding-on-vaccination-for-12-to-15-year-olds/

        Linked to the Cached page from August 12th – still containing the 1 in 100K risk of hospitalisation quote
        https://web.archive.org/web/20210812011743/https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/get-the-vaccine/deciding-on-vaccination-for-12-to-15-year-olds/

      1. bisted

        …Dear Nick…why did you defy the pleas of fans and the BDS movement to play in support of the zionist regime in Tel Aviv?

      1. GiggidyGoo

        You’re pretty attracted to the site yourself now Daisy. One of the few places that accepts your type of input.

  8. redzer

    “BS SEZ: As we’ve said many times, Bodger’s views are his own and do not reflect the views of Broadsheet or other contributors to Broadsheet.”

    Fair enough – but your reputation is being damaged by the stuff he churns out, you do know that, right?

    BS SEZ: If you say so Redzer. And yet Bodger and any commenters that share his views are mocked, dismissed and vigorously discredited in the comment section of every lockdown/vaxx post. And some wonder why Broadsheet doesn’t feature ‘pro-lockdown’ or ‘pro-vaxx’ posts. We don’t need to.

          1. SOQ

            Not at all- I just wonder why someone spends so much time trying to get under other people’s skins is all- it’s narcissism writ large.

          2. Daisy Chainsaw

            It’s so easy sneer at antivaxx/antimask/antilockdown dopes. When you’re not invading old BBC offices, or reclaiming Edinburgh Castle under laws that never appliled to Scotland or wailing about being treated like Jews in Auschwitz because you have to eat your chips outside, you continue to humiliate yourselves on a global scale and it’s absotiddlinglutely hillarious to watch you implode day after day.

          3. SOQ

            Well you claim to be left wing yet relish the prospect if vaccine passports, despite the fact that every single left wing party in the country voting against- just like elsewhere.

            You have an agenda and it is not what you are claiming it to be.

          4. SOQ

            Pointing out that you are not what you claim to be is neither paranoid nor hyperbolic.

            The reason why I say you have an agenda is because I never under estimate other people’s intelligence.

    1. Nigel

      ‘And some wonder why Broadsheet doesn’t feature ‘pro-lockdown’ or ‘pro-vaxx’ posts. We don’t need to.’

      So… generating outrage to increase traffic and engagement? For shame.

      BS SEZ: And we would have gotten away with it too, if it weren’t for you meddling kids.

    2. delacaravanio

      BS SEZ: “And yet Bodger and any commenters that share his views are mocked, dismissed and vigorously discredited in the comment section of every lockdown/vaxx post. And some wonder why Broadsheet doesn’t feature ‘pro-lockdown’ or ‘pro-vaxx’ posts. We don’t need to.”

      You can accept the scientific consensus around covid-19 vaccines without being pro-NPHET, pro-lockdown or pro government. The powers that be have done a piss poor job of preventing the spread of the virus over the last few weeks and months by ignoring the risk of airborne transmission and failing to push for better masks, etc. Instead all eggs have been put in the vaccines will save us basket when it’s clear that they won’t. This is all likely to result in more unnecessary lockdowns when we get into autumn/winter and/or the next variant comes along.

      It would be worthwhile to see at least one article about that on BS as RTE, etc. won’t cover it, but instead of those different voices we get this simplistic antivax/great replacement nonsense being given a forum here as the only alternative to the official pronouncements from the HSE. Let’s hear other voices, BS.

  9. E'Matty

    Does it get much herdier (my new word, thanks). You decide on the validity of information, not based on it’s content, logic, reasoning or evidence contained therein, but solely on who has communicated that information. That is literally the definition of a herd animal, blindly following your shepherd or herder, for better or worse. You have also decided that it is only those who you believe who are the “people who know what they’re talking about”. I suspect all it took was a title or three letters in an organisations name and you were following dutifully. You sound like the kind of guy who says things like “There were really important people there”, “That guy is really important”. Awed by status, title and position. Not much a “thinker” anyway.

    1. Kdoc

      E, Following the herd is not necessarily a good or a bad thing, it can be either. It can have a survival value. If you are ever standing on a beach and see all the other people running inland, it would be advisable that you do likewise – you may have not noticed an incoming tidal wave.

  10. Rosette of Sirius

    In my professional life, I always found it very beneficial to have a contrarian voice on board. One voice that forces scrutiny and rigor in a given situation. A voice that has an appreciation for factual analysis and a deep understanding of the topic at hand. This is not what is going on here. What we have here on BS – by design or accident – is a deep level set of editorial skepticism anchored in conspiracy and vague assertions about such and such. It’s just so one sided. Chompsky for the giggles, Nick for the tunes and Bodger for everything else. Everything else. So it is always going to be one sided and, given Bodger’s world view, there’s no balance whatsoever. And no, comment section discourse is not sufficient. It needs to be front page. I know BS is not the BBC where there’s ‘supposed’ to be an editorial balance. BS can do whatever it pleases and is clearly doing so. This saddens me as there was a time when BS genuinely held quite an influential position in Irish public online discourse with most topics reasoned and balanced.

  11. Zaccone

    I’m 110% pro vaccination for over 60s and anyone immunocrompromised. I’m pro vaccination for anyone 18-60 who wants to get vaccinated and makes the decision themself, under no compulsion. But all the statistics show kids aged 12-18 are at a higher risk from the vaccine than from covid, its absolutely horrifying that the government is attempting to push this.

    Particularly when their method of doing this – threatening to send home unvaccinated kids who’re close contacts but not vaccinated ones – is completely against the science, as we’re now seeing vaccinated people are still very capable of being highly contagious. Either send both home or neither.

    And particularly also when the vast majority of at risk people around the planet haven’t been vaccinated yet. Its absolutely morally horrifying to be double vaccinating 13 year olds in Ireland while 80 year olds in most countries, who’re actually at high risk, haven’t even been offered one.

    I don’t agree with all of Bodgers posts, but it is great to at least see a different perspective. The Irish media is completely afraid to ask any questions of the government, they’re not far off Pravda at this stage.

    1. SOQ

      +1

      It is an horrendous state of affairs, not least because both government and the media appears to be completely captured by pharma.

    2. Nigel

      You know there’s an entire activist movement around the issue of getting vaccines to the global south and poorer countries, and they manage to promote the idea without burying it under several metric tons of pandemic-truther nonsense. Bodger literally never promotes it. Pandemic-truther commenters only mention it after reams of comments on how the vaccine is evil, which leaves the sudden turnabout of concern that poor people aren’t getting enough a bit of a puzzler. So this, ‘I don’t agree with Bodger but this other issue that Bodger never posts about makes me grateful for Bodger’ is also, well, a bit of a puzzler.

      Also, nobody has confirmed that Marcus De Bruin hasn’t made the ‘threat’ up out of whole cloth, let alone explained why a kid with a positive contact should have been in school inthe first place.

    3. Daisy Chainsaw

      “statistics show kids aged 12-18 are at a higher risk from the vaccine than from covid”

      Which statistics are these?

      1. Micko

        The ones they recently (partially) removed form the HSE website – see my post above.

        There’s a link to the original webpage and its info on the odds of a child being hospitalised from Covid vs Myocarditis from the Vaccine.

          1. Micko

            Well, it was current up until yesterday when they changed their website.

            The HSE now say that THIS page links to more info on hospitalisations in children.

            Using the text “Read more about levels of illness and hospitalisation in children”

            https://www.hpsc.ie/news/newsarchive/2021newsarchive/title-21229-en.html

            But I can’t find any info on hospitalisations on the page they’ve sent us to.

            Please have a look yourself Daisy.

            If I’m missing something please point it out to me.

          2. Micko

            Well did ya have a look? It’s 5 hours later.

            Nah – not interested in proving me wrong eh?

            Nice one Daisy

    4. Zaccone

      @Nigel Its pretty simple. Bodger is anti vaccinating Irish teenagers. I agree with this, and I stated why. He might disagree with it for different reasons to me, but I can appreciate he is of the same opinion on the actual process of it.

      @Daisy Chainsaw From the HSE themselves:

      “1 in 100,000 children in Ireland who get COVID-19 have to go to hospital. ”
      “Data from the United States estimates that the risk of myocarditis in boys aged 12 to 17 is about 1 in 16,000. ”

      https://web.archive.org/web/20210812011743/https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/get-the-vaccine/deciding-on-vaccination-for-12-to-15-year-olds/

      1. Nigel

        Bodger can be anti-what-he-likes, it’s up to the parents and the teenagers themselves whether they get vaccinated.

        1. Zaccone

          But when the Irish government is pushing vaccination on the teenagers by making announcements such as the completely nonsensical/anti-science isolation policy its the issue.

      2. Daisy Chainsaw

        Zaccone, that’s not current information. Do you have any information that didn’t have to be rescued from an archive?

        1. Zaccone

          It was current as of yesterday. The studies its based on haven’t been challenged/changed in the last 24 hours, the HSE simply removed the information from their website.

          Its a pretty hilariously bad defense to refuse to engage with the very clear data on the subject simply because its no longer on the HSE information page.

          The data is very clear – teenage boys are *500%+* more at risk from myocarditis from the vaccine than from hospitalization from covid itself. Its pretty horrifying.

          But here you go anyway:

          https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/new-information-for-parents-on-myocarditis-and-covid-19-vaccines-202107012523

          “for every million doses given, there have been 67 cases of heart inflammation in boys 12 to 17 “

          1. SOQ

            No doubt the excuse will be that it would encourage vaccine hesitancy. Except it should encourage vaccine hesitancy in that group if they are going to have injuries.

            All for a disease which doesn’t even affect them- where are the anti body tests first eh?

          2. Daisy Chainsaw

            Also from that Harvard article:

            “That means the risk is quite low.

            Our only way out of this pandemic is to get as many people vaccinated as possible, including young people. Young people who are vaccinated can safely go to school or camp, play sports, and be with their friends and families, all of which are important for their current and future health and well-being — and all of which were curtailed during the pandemic.

            That’s why the American Academy of Pediatrics, the CDC, and other health groups are encouraging people to continue to vaccinate despite the cases of myocarditis and pericarditis. The risk is small — and the benefits are huge.”

  12. K. Cavan

    Nigel, your comments on this site make me sicker than Covid. You consistently display complete ignorance of biology and science, reiterating the gibberish of other, equally ignorant people, since you echo the opinions of the herd of yellow-pack morons who constitute the Irish media, who’s qualifications are a journalism course in Rathmines Tech, or whatever it’s called & the inability to hold down a proper job.
    Nothing you say makes any sense, scientifically but you haven’t got the common sense (or decency) to acknowledge this, even to yourself. Every single comment you make is full of inaccuracies, lies & nonsense, with a dose of fascistic insistence on “Uno duce, una voce” yet you forge ahead, buoyed by your own misplaced, nauseating self-belief and precious little else. You should be embarrassed by your scientific ignorance & ashamed of your far-right political instincts. Did you even take Biology for the Leaving Cert? Many other commentators here, with various points of view, have clearly done their homework, read up in the subject they are commenting on but you are clearly as baffled by science now as you’ve been all along.
    You are The Weakest Link…

    1. Nigel

      ‘your comments on this site make me sicker than Covid’

      Maybe if you boil down my comments, stick them in a needle and inject yourself with them, you’ll become immune. That’s biology!

        1. Bitnboxy

          Lol. Well as for the last word, Boxy has certainly had fun exploiting mad auld lad GiggidyGums (with barely a tooth left in his head – Giggz’s words), desperate attempts to have the last word. Shur, didn’t I drive you demented GiggidyGums – we used to be a double-act – young Boxy serving a disgruntled auld lad his derrière. Good times!

          And to think you once wrote: “these are the last words I will ever say to you (sic) Boxy”!

          GiggidyGums – a mad auld lad like no other.

          Chortle.

  13. Mr T

    Why do children need vaccinated if they are at minimal risk from covid?
    >”Oh but to prevent them spreading it to other people”
    Well then that implies the vaccines dont work to protect those other people
    >”Well we need to vaccinate everyone to stop variants”
    But vaccinated people can contract and spread covid too, and infact introduce selective pressure for vaccine resistant variants which would put the elderly at risk again
    >”….ratlicker!”

  14. stephen moran

    My 15 year old son got the jab yesterday at Croker. I asked him if he wanted to get it. HE said yes. Sure I registered him & of course went with him but I think the main thing motivating parents is the poxy unheroic teachers unions i.e. not giving these grifters an excuse to skive off in Sept again along with our equally charmless Uni crowd. 4k for zoom classes with the production values of a 70’s porn movie. These are the practical issues facing parents so please get down off your self indulgent Ayn Rand libertarian high horse & wake up to reality here

      1. stephen moran

        NO I’m assuming the poxy ASTI will weaponize it as an excuse not to do their well paid job after their 3 annual months holidays

  15. K. Cavan

    It’s kind of sad, all these fascists promoting the fake pandemic narrative are Zelig, at Nuremberg, before his moment of realisation.

  16. V AKA Frilly Keane

    Jesus Christ t’night
    All Ireland week
    And this is the crap fuelling the place

    Ye all deserve each other tbh

    And as for Gemma O’D and all the other faux speechers
    Ye all seem determined to plug into yere posts
    Ye’d have the girl back by the Angelus
    All of ye
    If she was willing
    And ye’d be all over the relevent thread(s) like the good old days

    What ye all need now is a good decent Q drop
    To take yere focus off this Vax crap
    Get it Don’t get it
    Tis as simple as that lads

    Why didn’t ye feature Pillow Man Lindell’s Cyber Symposium Lads
    Tis gold
    Or Terry McMahon’s speech from that Gilroy Yella Vest rally

    Tis like a Vax Fetish forum
    C’mon lads
    Shake it up ffs

    Hon’ Cork

    1. goldenbrown

      100% it’s fetishization of the whole lark

      but its driven from the top down

      this Govt are currently getting a massive pass on some other fairly biblical issues “because covid”

      have to admit I’m close to shutting down completely and becoming a fupping offgrid hermit at this point

      1. Man On Fire

        Stick around gb..

        I get you re running off to the hills.. I just restored my old vw syncro jeep.. Fill the trailer, load the roof rack and bait off to the west of Ireland..

  17. Nullzero

    Good to see everyone getting on so well and discussing this topic in a grown up manner. We’ll done folks.

      1. Nullzero

        Of course not. The zealots as always are out in force and abusing anyone who disagrees with them.

        1. SOQ

          Fair enough but the paid weeds should be uprooted- especially from the UK and US- it’s not rocket science to block VPN.

Comments are closed.