Demonstrators protesting covid measures organised a sit-down on O’Connell Bridge, Dublin on Saturday
This morning.
Ahead of a cabinet meeting today to discuss the ‘reopening of Irish society’…
…Via Irish Examiner:
Senior Government sources told the Irish Examiner that access to events across the remaining sectors will be on the basis of proving full vaccination.
….Using the digital cert to manage increased numbers at religious services has been ruled out, even though Communions and Confirmations are to return within weeks.
It is likely the numbers allowed to attend weddings and funerals will also increase to 100
….All public transport will operate at 100% capacity from Wednesday to facilitate the return of 1.5m school children and college students, as well as a return of office workers.
Revealed: Details of full reopening of Irish society (Irish Examiner)
Update:
NEW: Arts minister Catherine Martin all but confirms the phased return of live events throughout September, initially through the use of vaccine passes.
Also says indoor classes for children like dance classes, and indoor sports, set to return over the month.@VirginMediaNews pic.twitter.com/bcMYjzuXlM
— Gavan Reilly (@gavreilly) August 30, 2021
The digital cert?
Still haven’t got one, and I was juiced last June. The card has done me so far, and I’m not planning leaving the country nor do I go to mass :)
You can scan the paper certs QR Code into the COVID tracker app and it serves the same purpose.
I heard that, but I never even got anything in the post :)
I have the card I got on the day (with an unscannable tiny QR code on it, but that wouldn’t have my info would it… Doesn’t matter though, as I cannot scan it).
I’ve heard of some people getting sorted out by contacting Revenue (I know they sent out mine when the paper certs were first devised). Could be worth a shot.
On the Dept of Health website it gives instructions how to request your cert if it didn’t arrive: https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/3a698-eu-digital-Covid-certificate/#if-you-dont-get-your-digital-covid-certificate-in-the-coming-weeks
You can request it to be emailed to you.
“…nor do I go to mass”
Some people just don’t care about their eternal soul and the torments that await… lot’s of pointy things, fire, and muszak… more serious than a bad dose of Coivd…
Mass and membership in a parish is about community, as is Islam.
Keep on believing “gahh all religion is bad… Gov locking us down for a year under the scripture of science – is good” though.
What you describe sounds more like what our prophet Science says about climate catastrophe
Indeed.
I’m not religious, but I believe that people should be allowed to practice their faith freely.
I also find it interesting that the French polymath Gustave Le Bon predicted just how intolerant atheists would become if their beliefs ever took hold.
Way back in 1895…
“Were it possible to induce the masses to adopt atheism, this belief would exhibit all the intolerant ardor of a religious sentiment, and in its exterior forms would soon become a cult.”
It is strange times indeed when the only place you can go to mass is in the protestant north eh?
Atheists don’t have a belief system.
…atheism is the opposite of religion, it does not require any faith…just evidence…religious people of any flavour are unable to produce any evidence for their beliefs…
People who don’t believe that Covid 19 exists and yet believe a God or higher power exists without any evidence. What would they be called.
Thinking the essence of religion is about a belief on how the universe exists is moronic. Its about community and well being.
The ‘crazy’ new religions like Scientology lock away most of their actual beliefs, and attract members through promises of improved mental health.
The religion of Science (eg media reports, new atheism, gov legislation – not actual science), is the one who wishes to control people’s lives through unquestionable faith.
Science is not a religion.
Said like a true believer in scientism. You may want to look up the word
You may want to look up the word religion.
You’ve snookered me, never looked up that word before. Now I see, religion is inherently evil. We can only trust in science. Science and governments have our best interests at heart. I will not have kids because of climate catastrophe.
Am I programmed correctly now?
You might want to take that microchip out, beware of threadstone, and the ten commandments.
Micko: have you watched The Psychology of Authoritarianism – https://brandnewtube.com/watch/the-psychology-of-authoritarianism-reiner-fuellmich-prof-mattias-desmet-wolfgang-wodarg_YAOqRsn19XIF6xF.html
It’s quite long but powerful stuff. Your man Le Bon gets cited quite a lot.
I haven’t Frank. I’ll check it out. Cheers
He was a clever bloke alright.
I seen that- he really gets into the psychology of the blinkered hysteria.
Regardless of the semantics around the word “belief” (the man did write it 100 years ago) the sentiment is what is important.
So let’s rephrase his position to suit your sensibilities;
“Were it possible to induce the masses to adopt atheism, this IDEA would exhibit all the intolerant ardor of a religious sentiment, and in its exterior forms would soon become a cult.”
I think we need to be easy-going about “faith” or otherwise in terms of an individual’s belief system. Whatever works or has a positive influence on a person’s life and sense of being then fill yer boots, kneel on your mat or adore your icons just don’t get up in my grille about it. Sadly organised religion has been responsible for ill down through the centuries. It’s not the fault of Jesus, he was just an interesting dude who lived a few thousand years ago and had some interesting thoughts and ideas on life and how it should be lived. Organised religion became a plaything for authority, “the opium of the masses” etc.
The greatest trick organised religion ever played was to take inherently human characteristics and hijack pre-existing, pagan beliefs (in Ireland anyway) and manipulate them to reflect the face and will of God. Personally I’d rather stand within a stone circle draped in my Druid’s cape and worship the weather or a giant stag.
A related and interesting read is this book translated from the French about the life of St. Paul as well as the author’s own transition from fervent believer to atheist…
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/the-kingdom-review-the-gospel-according-to-emmanuel-carr%C3%A8re-1.2999741
It’s an interesting topic. According to my understanding of Christianity, it’s not enough not to just do no evil, there also an expectation that you are actively helping others. It’s the expansion of turn the other cheek and treat thy neighbour etc. In that sense an individual centred secular society is the opposite of a Christian society.
I was out for dinner at weekend. At the outdoor table were 3 vaccinated people (incl me), with one immuno-compromised, and one un-vacced. The un-vacced person was explaining that they had made their decision on the basis that the maths made more sense for them not to get jab. What struck me was that this decision also had an impact though for the others. ie the un-vacced had a greater prob of having Covid (symptomatic or asymptomatic), meaning the others were at more risk of catching Covid due to their decision. I guess it’s a point that’s been made many times but the first time I was confronted with the reality.
Bringing it back to the religion topic, it’s the ultimate individual secular decision in my view. Weighing up two highly remote probabilities (getting seriously sick from Covid or from vaccine) and not giving any weight to the impact of your decision on those around you.
Anyhow, these points are nothing new I guess and won’t convince anyone from existing positions I’m sure but thought to share anyway.
jesus christ’s life was spent railing against organised religion.
“the un-vacced had a greater prob of having Covid (symptomatic or asymptomatic), meaning the others were at more risk of catching Covid due to their decision.”
I would argue Sten that people are not responsible for the diseases they carry, nor are they responsible for the protection of other peoples health.
So I’m afraid it’s tough luck on the immune compromised person. It is up to them to protect themselves.
As every single one of our Mothers told us ad nauseam – “life’s not fair”
‘I would argue Sten that people are not responsible for the diseases they carry’
This has never been the case with people who knowingly go out and about with an infectious disease. They might not be responsible for catching it, but once they know they have it, they are held responsible for how they behave and whether they transmit it to others in a manner that could have been avoidable. Typhoid Mary, to take an extreme case, was never convicted of a crime but had to be kept quarantined in a hospital for much of her life because she would not stop spreading typhoid. If you had HIV and spat on someone, it used to be treated as assault, and maybe it still is.
Yeah, you’ve tried the HIV argument before Nigel.
“If you had HIV and spat on someone”
If you can’t tell the difference between someone intentionally spiting on someone, or sleeping with another person when they have HIV, and someone just going about their daily lives with a viral infection that has a minuscule fatality rate.
Well, then you’re completely broken. You will never experience a normal life again.
I don’t think I have, but I granted you the credit of understanding an extreme example to illustrate what is normal – if you know you are infectious you are expected to act responsibly in order to avoid infecting others. This holds true for the flu, for chicken pox, for yellow fever. I don’t know what you think is normal about rationalising your right to spread an infectious disease amongst others, but I would put it to you that that is more broken than rationalising not spreading an infectious disease.
Chicken Pox – really?
Did you pay for your kids to get the chicken pox vaccine in Ireland then? It’s not part of the standard vaccines given here.
Of did you just let them get it?
“Before the chickenpox vaccine became available, 100 to 150 children in the U.S. died from chickenpox annually.’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pox_party
But if your kid catches chicken pox you’re going to keep them at home until they’re no longer infectious right? And if you didn’t have chicken pox yourself you’re going to let your partner look after them because you don’t want to end up with shingles, right? Unless you’re ideologiically committed to the rights of infectious diseases to be spread as much as possible, I guess.
…in fact, the Man wrote it 2000 years ago…allegedly…
You didn’t answer my question Nigel
Did you get your kids vaccinated against Chicken pox?
That kills children and as you pointed out can also kill adults as shingles.
#ForUsAll
That’s a real Giggidy move there Micko. Demanding an answer to a tangential question to avoid the point. No I don’t know if anyone I know has had that vaccination. Do you think people with infectious diseases should spread them?
@Micko I can agree it’s not the un-vacced person’s responsibility to look after the health of the immune-compromised person. If I tell you though that these people are part of the same family you might understand that the strict idea of “responsibility” is muddied somewhat by two people’s consideration for each other.
And I see that also in the broader sense also of how we care for each as a society. As part of that society you might do things that are a disadvantage (eg higher risk) to you personally in order to help others that are in less advantageous position to you. This is what society means and we are lucky in Ireland that we still have one of the best societies going in my view.
And then while I agree that “Life’s not fair” (& I heard it many times growing up too!), I don’t think that can act as a reason not to try to make it fairer where I can. As the Beatles said “And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make”
I woul think that particular situation would be a difficult one with two family members alright Sten
And thanks for the intelligent gracious reply.
Something that is in very short supply around here a lot. :)
My only real point for pushing you on that Nigel is that you brought up Chicken pox
And the odds of a child dying from Covid are about 1 in 500k. (2 in a million)
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57766717
The odds of an unvax’d child dying from chicken pox is about 1 in 100k.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/varicella.html
And the HSE doesn’t recommend the chicken pox jab. So why the Covid one?
The only reason i can see is to protect adults. Which is disgusting to me.
And to answer YOUR question
“ Do you think people with infectious diseases should spread them?”
Depends on the disease, it depends where we are in the progression of the disease and it depends on how damaging our efforts to contain it will be to society… it’s nuanced.
‘Depends on the disease.’ So there are diseases which it is acceptable to spread to others and diseases which are not. A brand new paradigm for a post-truth world. So is the entirety of your opposition to vaccines focused on children now? Moral outrage from someone who thinks it’s ok to spread disease if the avoidance of such happens to be inconvenient.
Well yes. Of course people are going to spread disease. Should we demand that everyone stays at home every time they get a touch of the sniffles?
Don’t be silly now. That’s not realistic and it’s nuanced for each disease as I said.
Ebola? Yup stay in the gaff.
Flu or head cold? Yer probably ok to go out. :p
And since I can’t reverse time and we’ve already injected people under 45 with these new vaccines, yes leaving kids alone would be my main focus.
And, I have never said that the vaccines were not a good idea. Only that I thought it was not needed for under 45’s as so few have died.
And like all things in medicine there should be a risk / reward ratio attributed to every medical decision. And that ratio should be determined on what is best for THAT individual person.
Not what’s best for that person’s grandmother…
Please don’t go giving other people the flu, for feck’s sake.
We are the only country in the EU to mandate things for vaccine only – all other countries also allow negative PCR or antigen tests.
Mad how content Irish people are to put up with authoritarian measures like that
Well I do know that when it comes to some pubs and restaurants, it is an Irish solution to an Irish problem- meaning it is being ignored.
It is very unpopular with the general public so a lot of businesses simply aren’t going to risk loosing business over it- they can’t afford to if they want to stay afloat.
So they are prepared to risk losing their licence over it.
If they go under, they’ll have no need for a license anyways?
Failte ireland do the inspections. they also only work 9-5.
And not on weekends
It’s being policed by the tourist board? LOL
Even the HSE wouldn’t touch it so.
Yawn.
Israel no longer considers people who have received 2 Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines “vaccinated.” As of September 1, only 3x vaccinated are considered immune.
And that folks is where it is all going- your cert will be cancelled if your vaccinations are not up to date.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Franklin_effect
A person’s life may also be cancelled if they are not fully vaccinated.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marc-bernier-coronavirus-death_n_612c3b12e4b0231e369d5419
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=most+icu+israel+are+vaccinated
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=SOQ+spreads+FUD
Are you disputing the fact that such a large number of people in ICU’s in Israel are fully vaccinated?
No.
you are spreading misinformation.
There are [all figures rounded] 7,000,00 adults in Israel. 80% are vaccinated.
There are 600 people in ICU with Covid. Half are vaccinated.
Vaccinated: 300 out of 5,600,000 [the oldest, most vulnerable, most likely to need care]
Un-Vaccinated: 300 out of 1,400,000 [younger, healthier]
Ignoring age and health – you are four times more likely to end up in ICU if you are not vaccinated. If you add in health and age it would be much higher.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-doctors-find-severe-covid-19-breakthrough-cases-mostly-older-sicker-2021-08-20/%5D
So you are not disputing the fact that there is a large number of people in ICU’s in Israel who are fully vaccinated?
That was and is my point- no misinformation, just the fact.
So much for 95% claimed efficacy rates eh? Anyone with half a brain could at the time see that was never going to be even close.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=SOQ+spreads+FUD
Narrative falling apart darlin- and you know it.
It is, and that is why you are spreading FUD.
Yes, that Mark Bernier guy was very silly not to take the vaccine.
He was 65 – the risk reward ratio for him was very much in the favour of him taking the vaccine.
He also looked like a hefty chap. Very silly.
“People given both doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine were almost six-fold more likely to contract a delta infection and seven-fold more likely to have symptomatic disease than those who recovered.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-covid-prevents-delta-infection-better-than-pfizer-shot
“Giving a single shot of the vaccine to those who had been previously infected also appeared to boost their protection. ”
Ibid
“The long-term benefit of a booster dose of the inoculation, which has just recently begun in Israel, is unknown. “
The long-term effect of dying from Covid is to remain dead. 4.5 million and rising.
The long-term adverse effect of Covid (if you survive) is also unknown.
Average age of death from CoVid-19 is between 82 and 84 depending on what you read.
There long term side effects of experimental injections are completely unknown of course- because there is no safety data.
Booster shots are already shaping up to be a six monthly thing.