Independent Clare TD Michael McNamara
Yesterday.
Dail Eireann.
TDs debated a proposed extension of Covid emergency powers covering indoor dining by three months until January 9.
Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly said:
“The purpose of this motion is to extend the sunset clause of part 2 of the Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 2021, which is due to expire on 9 October and which provides that each House of the Oireachtas may, on or before, 9 October 2021, pass a resolution to continue part 2 in operation for a period not exceeding three months. Part 2 of the Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 2021 provides for the reopening of indoor hospitality under certain conditions. In essence, the Act gives effect to the Government’s decision to enable access to relevant indoor premises for fully vaccinated persons and persons who are immune from Covid-19, on the basis they have recovered from Covid-19, as well as certain children and staff.”
Later, he added:
“The following point is important. I want to assure the House and colleagues that existing regulations under the Act are due to be revoked with effect from 22 October, in line with the Government’s plan for this phase of Covid-19. Obviously, that is pending final Government approval and final analysis from our public health teams. However, the intention is that the restrictions on indoor hospitality will end on 22 October. We are not seeking, by means of this motion, to extend the timeline past 22 October. Rather, we are looking to extend the legal framework, should that be required, in the subsequent 12 weeks.”
Social Democrats co-leader Roisin Shortall said:
“As a compromise, I am proposing that the power to establish restrictions would only remain with the Government up until the point in the roadmap where most of those restrictions are due to be lifted, that is, 22 October. I ask the Minister to consider that. It is a reasonable proposal that we continue along the road of the roadmap – most people accept that and the vast majority of people are adhering to the requirements under the roadmap – but we expect that in less than three weeks’ time, there will not be any need for legislation to underpin the restrictions. I put it to the Minister and ask him to consider this proposal on the clear undertaking that if things do go wrong and if there is a new variant or whatever, there would be full co-operation right across this House in responding to that in an appropriate manner.”
People Before Profit’s Richard Boyd Barrett said:
“The use of coercive or discriminatory measures to achieve compliance with measures that are necessary to protect public health gives succour to a small minority of forces that are trying to undermine the public health effort. It gives them ammunition that we do not need to give them. It also unnecessarily discriminates against people who have genuine worries which, in many cases, I do not share. We need education and information to try to address those concerns. We should not be seen in any way to persecute those people or discriminate against them. I am not saying that is the intention, but the problem is, sometimes, that ends up being the effect of these measures. That is counterproductive and, for that reason, we will oppose this proposed extension.”
Catherine Connolly said:
“We have heard Deputies refer to The Lancet and the reduction in effectiveness of the vaccine five months after the last dose. We are now discriminating against those who had the double dose as well as those who did not. Then we have the people, including a member of my own family, who contracted Covid-19 who have a certificate for six months. Interestingly, in the Minister’s speech today he referred to nine months for such people. There is no clarity on anything. An all-party committee made recommendations that were absolutely ignored. I, among other Deputies, spoke out from the beginning on nursing homes and on the utter failure of the Government and NPHET to consider the vulnerability of nursing homes, meat plants and direct provision centres.
Independent Clare TD Michael McNamara said:
“I opposed this legislation when it was introduced in July and I am opposing it being rolled over again. In July, I predicted that it would be rolled over. Many Government Deputies said they found it unpalatable and they were concerned by it, but that it was for a limited period of time, so they would accept it. Now, they are accepting it because, well, it is a power that will not be used. I am suspicious of powers that will not be used being placed in the hands of civil servants or pliable Ministers who do whatever their civil servants want.
The Minister’s speech referred to three different groups. Those who are vaccinated and those who have an immunity from recovery are two groups addressed in the law. However, when the legislation was introduced there was a third group, which the Minister may recall discussing, namely, those who were to have a certificate based on having tested negative for Covid-19. We were to see these certificates in the course of the summer. Where are they now? What happened to them?
….A recent study based on a considerable amount of data from the Maccabi Institute for Health Services Research in Israel showed that immunity acquired following recovery from Covid is far greater than the immunity acquired through the vaccine. That does not mean people should go out and get Covid because there are considerable risks involved in that and I am not suggesting people take that approach. You have to be careful to qualify everything because if you question any of this, you are labelled an anti-vaxxer for having legitimate questions.”
The debate continues today with a vote scheduled for 10pm.
Transcripts via Oireachtas.ie
Meanwhile…
Mattie McGrath is absolutely right about one thing: this is a form of apartheid based on vaccination status. It is a blot on Ireland’s reputation as a free society. https://t.co/M20SqSsBLL
— David Thunder (@davidjthunder) October 5, 2021
Shortall and Boyd Barrett still stuck up thick alley, cogs slowly turning for Connolly and McNamara unable to speak freely for fear of being smeared. Sad state of affairs
Extremely sad.
la tristesse, encore et toujours…
“Winter Kills” 1979 – IMDb
This will be extended I think.
I can’t really see the reason for it though.
With 93% of the adult population going along with it – what’s the point?
Is that 7% so dangerous – and will they always be a danger?
Why not just make it permanent and be done with it?
Remember when they were saying that herd immunity would be reached when 80% was vaccinated?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToQ0n3itoII
Ireland is 74% fully vaccinated + 2% one dose.
Perhaps we will have herd immunity when we get to 80%
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&facet=none&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=total_deaths_per_million&Metric=People+vaccinated+%28by+dose%29&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=~IRL
So why is the Irish Times saying 91.3% ?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-tracker-how-many-people-have-been-inoculated-in-ireland-1.4481095
I refrain from using the term ‘fully vaccinated’ myself, as that is clearly a moving goalpost.
Adults – 18+. As it clearly shows.
I think you’ve made exactly the same mistake at least twice before.
The third time suggests it isn’t a mistake. He is actively pushing misinformation.
The 80% figure quoted was at a time when injecting children wasn’t even on the radar, it referred to adults only.
As for actively pushing misinformation- history will be the judge of who has been doing that.
Michael McNamara’s full questions from the above text is a very interesting watch.
https://youtu.be/pEKJt_GB3fg
Absolutely shows that the gov is just flippantly setting these arbitrary rules with no end in sight.
Whatever side you take on this whole thing, this is getting insane and is no longer about safety or science.
‘“The use of coercive or discriminatory measures to achieve compliance with measures that are necessary to protect public health gives succour to a small minority of forces that are trying to undermine the public health effort.’
Regardless of whether you think this is good or bad, not doing something because you’re worried about a ‘small minority…trying to undermine the public health effort’ is literally giving power to that small minority. It’s just a generally terrible argument in any context.
As opposed to giving the power to the small minority on NPHET to govern social activity?
Better no one has that power. It’s a bad law.
If you don’t like the board of experts appointed to advise the government by the government, elect in a new government.
I see this “you voted wrong – thereof anything that happens is your fault”argument from you a lot Nigel. It’s a lazy argument.
Who would you vote for then oh wise one?
For one thing it’s not lazy it’s quite astonishingly fundamental. For another I was drawing a distinction between a government appointed board and a tiny minority trying to undermine the public health effort.
Cool
Who’d you vote for then?
Even if they are the government they are still subject to the law Nigel.
Or did we abolish the constitution too?
And save us the crock about the public health emergency.You know it’s bogus. We know it’s bogus. They know its bogus.
Everything from this point forward is about saving face at best.
Your double speak above justifies coercion in order to overcome obstacles at law.
Are you gonna force vaccinate the resistors? Sound’s like you want to.
Of course they’re subject to the law.
No, we do not know it is bogus. That is something you have managed to persuade yourself is the case, and think that everybody else must be in on it. That is called paranoia.
If you think that’s what my comments above ‘sound like,’ it’s no surprise that you can persuade yourself about literally anything.
Any proof of this Public Health Emergency you’re so fond of proclaiming?
You’ve been asked for this many times but all you offer is made-up numbers and glib diversions.
So how do we know you’re a regime troll?
Cos you come on here every day to push the regime agenda without faily, flying in the face of all logic, reason and evidence.
After two plus years this is like a fish demanding proof that water is wet. Christ.
Still no answer to a direct question.
You’re a barking seal.
…that’s convoluted even for you Nigel…but hey…let’s attack the left…the centre must hold!
It’s a bad argument whoever is making it.
But Nigel that is exactly how the Irish Left think, even a few on here- they are so obsessed with their mirror image that nothing else matters?
Apparently. Too scared of being called woke by right wing dirtbags to try to do the right thing.
My friend went to his doctors last week and they spoke about him getting the vaccine. They read the HSE document about it together and according to the HSE data his risk of bell’s palsy or myocarditis is higher than his risk of serious illness from covid. He declined the vaccine and his doctor simply said “fair enough”.
Sounds like informed consent. Or in his case informed non-consent.
I’ve had Bells Palsy twice in my life. I too made an informed consent and took the vaccine.
Bells Palsy if treated will go away within 6-8 weeks, Long Covid will not. And Bells Palsy won’t kill you either.
So it was a simple choice for me.
Long Covid – hahahahaha
what about Long Vaccine?
oh wait we don’t no the longterm side affects yet.
I’m not even anti-vax BTW.
5 million dead, people in ICUs, on ventilators, long covid – hilarious.
Entirely speculative possibly non-existent long term vaccine effects – genocide.
Long Covid, hahahahaha Gibberish.
People having Strokes & Heart Attacks from a temporarily slightly effective vaccine, not speculative, Nigel.
There’s a bloody good reason we put medical treatments through trials, usually.
One thing gibberish, one thing rock-solid real. It just depends.
Yes exactly Cian, now wouldn’t it be good if every patient and doctor went through the same process?
We might just vaccinate the old and vulnerable – you know the people actually at risk from covid.
You find Long Covid a laughing matter? I don’t.
Long Vaccine? There is no such thing.
‘No such thing’ – No one knows, stop making things up.
Why do we need further lockdowns…we have the highest vaccination rates in the world, supposedly…does it work or not, is this to just continue forever?
Yup. Makes no sense at all
“But remember everyone, to continue to hate and punish the 7% that think differently to the majority. That’s what’s really important”
Sincerely yours,
Your loving Government
there’s not even smoke and mirrors, as subtle as a hammer to the head
It makes sense all right Mick- because just like Israel, the next thing will be three jabs or no pass.
What is Sinn Féin’s position on all this?
comparing us to israel is stupid.
Anything less that three shots in Israel means you are now regarded as non vaccinated, and some are on their forth.
Apart from being more efficient in their procurement and deployment, in what way is Ireland or indeed any other western country different to Israel?
It is the same ‘science’ behind all the vaccination programs surely?
yep, we’re not Israel,
But I think there’s no harm in looking at what’s going on over there and I think that we’d ALL agree that no matter what side of the argument you’re on, the type of over the top enforcement of vaccine passports and seemingly never ending boosters in order to keep your rights, is not something that we’d like to see replicated here.
In the same way things have gone awry in Australia.
While comparing us to there too might seem a bit much for some, there’s no harm in keeping one eye on them to make sure our Gov don’t get any funny ideas. ;)
The vast majority of adults in Ireland have done what the gov have wanted, and it’s a bit much to be snatching this away at the 11th hour.
You think we’re not headed in exactly the same direction as Israel, scottser?
Why exactly is it stupid to compare us to them?
You think the “boosters til you die” regime isn’t coming?
That’s utterly naive. This is only going one way.
Bill Gates has made his mind up & he’s not for turning.
Boosters. Til. You. Die.
Israel is only on 64% of the population on 2 dose (70% both doses).
Nothing like Ireland
Meanwhile the Welsh population will be subjected to a vaccine passport system off the back of an apparent Zoom software malfunction:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/live-updates-senedd-members-vote-21767140
“First Minister Mark Drakeford’s plan to make Covid passes mandatory for nightclubs and mass events in Wales has been approved by the Senedd amid farcical scenes.
Welsh Labour’s high profile policy had seemed set for a humiliating defeat with all three opposition parties pledging to vote against it meaning the vote would have been tied. A tied vote would have left the decision with Presiding Officer Elin Jones who would have been obliged not to allow new legislation onto the statue books.
However Tory MS Gareth Davies, who was joining the meeting remotely, was unable to get onto Zoom to cast his vote. Labour’s Covid passes plan passed by 28 votes to 27.”
clip of the critical moment here:
https://twitter.com/alexmaccaroon/status/1445507507816853511
That is absolutely shocking- for something so important.
Absolutely disgraceful. All common sense and rationale is gone.
Covid passes mandatory for nightclubs and mass events
OMG. Worse than the Nazis
People who are fully vaccinated in Wales can already download the NHS Covid Pass to securely show and share their vaccine status. It also allows people to show they have had a negative lateral flow test result within the last 48 hours.
If that sarcastic comment is your genuine takeaway from the above story, you’ve probably been heavily propagandised. Alternatively, it’s the just behaviour of another troll looking to derail meaningful dialogue.
“It also allows people to show they have had a negative lateral flow test result within the last 48 hours.”
So, also nothing like Ireland
It’s hard to believe that was an accidental Zoom malfunction. That means stupid, petty restrictions placed on politicians have led to restrictions of basic freedoms being permanently imposed on citizens, if you can still call them citizens, at this stage of the coup.
It’s amazing how neo-fascist the two British devolved assemblies have turned out to be.
Oul wans much?
As Neville Chamberlain said as he stepped off the plane from Berlin…”go home and have a nice quiet sleep”.