Yesterday evening.
Dail Eireann.
Independent Clare TD Michael McNamara challenged Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly on his plan to extend covid emergency legislation for a further three months.
He also took issue with a tweet from the Minister:
Today I’m asking the Oireachtas to extend emergency COVID-19 powers for three more months. Given the disease incidence is very high and rising, we must keep our guard up, including these powers. Those who oppose this extension are behaving recklessly. pic.twitter.com/O5Myp3Ntrm
— Stephen Donnelly (@DonnellyStephen) November 2, 2021
Mr McNamara said:
“While looking at this debate in my office I noticed that there was a tweet a couple of minutes ago and indeed it was from your good self, the Minister for Health, saying that everybody who opposed this was reckless. With regard to being reckless, it was reckless to have such a disregard for Parliament and for the Dáil, not for me or Deputy Connolly, or any of the Deputies here, but for the people that we represent because it is the essence of democracy. One thing that Fianna Fáil always had, that party the Minister joined so late in the day, was a fairly healthy respect for parliamentary democracy.
“If the Minister wants to talk about recklessness, it is reckless to run down a health service the way our health service has been run down. The Minister did not run it down, but there are three members of the Cabinet in which he sits who had collective responsibility for running it down.
“The Taoiseach, Deputy Micheál Martin, when he was the Minister for Health, came up with the HSE as a way to spend money on reports. The Tánaiste, Deputy Leo Varadkar, when he was the Minister could not get out of there fast enough. The Minister, Deputy Simon Harris, caused a general election when he was the Minister for Health. We thought he was the most inept Minister for Health ever, or at least we were told that by some Fianna Fáil canvassers before the last election.
“That was reckless to run down a health service the way they did. It was reckless to fail to do anything about it when getting into office, which is what the Minister, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, has done. Where is the additional capacity that he spoke about and that he asked about when he was on the Covid committee? It is simply not there. Cholera hospitals were built in this city in response to a cholera outbreak. TB sanatoria were built all over the State in response to that. We had €23 billion. What was the €23 billion spent on apart from masks that are now clogging up our sewerage systems, which was junk that was brought in from China? What was the €23 billion spent on? We have nothing to show for it. Such a wanton waste of Exchequer funding is simply reckless.
“If the Minister wants to talk about recklessness, it is reckless to deny children the ability to play sports during a pandemic when they are locked up in their homes. It is reckless to tell them it is safe to sit in a classroom for six hours a day but not safe to play sports. It is reckless because of the effect it has on their formation and particularly on their mental health.
“This is the case with some children whose parents have come to me to complain about what is going on. It is reckless to fail to look at schools and their ventilation, and to spend €23 billion without remedying this. Last winter it was understandable because it was all new but we are heading into our second winter with nothing done. I put it to the Minister that this is reckless.
“Above all, it is reckless to fail to look at the science and to pretend that we are following the science but instead lurch from hysterical reaction to hysterical reaction. Let us look at the vaccines and let us look at their efficiency and efficacy. There are studies about this. Vaccines of course have stopped people from getting seriously ill, but now we know of waning immunity.
“We now know that how infectious somebody is, whether they are vaccinated or not, varies relatively little. We know that there is an enduring immunity from recovery. There are also question marks still about masks and about how small are the particles by which the virus is spread. Are they so small that masks do not capture them? If the Minister wants to talk about recklessness let us talk about it, but also have an honest reflection upon his role and how reckless he has been.”
Meanwhile…
Yesterday evening.
Dail Eireann.
Independent Wexford TD Verona Murphy also opposed the extension of emergency powers…
“I have had contact with many disgruntled constituents who are wondering why we did not open on 22 October as was planned. I share many of their concerns. There seems to be an attitude from the Government to try to extend its power with these restrictions under the guise of being precautionary, yet as soon as they are passed they are being used as a matter of course rather than as an emergency power.
“I also have another major concern which needs to be met head-on. Why are Government Members and policies being designed to scapegoat those who decided, for whatever reason, that they did not want, or could not take, the vaccine? We have the highest vaccination rates in Europe. I would like to commend all of the hard-working staff in all of the vaccination centres who have been very confident in their roll out of the vaccine programme. The constant scapegoating of the unvaccinated does not stand up to scrutiny or evidence and is completely unwarranted.
“Every time we see evidence of a failure in Government policy, the narrative shifts to find the latest random thing to blame it on. There has yet to be any evidence presented which shows that vaccine passports actually serve any purpose in preventing transmission. In fact, recent studies have shown that a vaccinated person is every bit as likely to transmit this virus as a non-vaccinated person. Therefore, why is the Government continuing to divide society on this basis? Some of the language used by Ministers…”
Mr Donnelly interjected:
“Deputies, that information is false and it is really important that Members of Parliament do not spread anti-vaccine information like this in the Chamber.”
Adding:
“It is so damaging in terms of the anti-vaccine campaign.”
Ms Murphy continued:
There is nothing anti-vax about some of the constituents contacting me. They are contacting me and telling me they are unable to take a vaccine. It is stupid to tell people they can attend weddings without certificates…if the same people cannot then go out to a restaurant the next day because they are being labelled as unvaccinated.”
Transcripts via Oireachtas.ie
Last night: Three More Months
Meanwhile…
“Richard’s book, I haven’t read it, I won’t be reading it, the bits I’ve seen are quotes from anonymous sources, he never came back to check or get any response to them, the bits I’ve seen certainly don’t marry with my experience” – Stephen Donnelly about Richard Chambers’s book https://t.co/to2OkTtub2
— nwl (@nwl88444048) November 3, 2021
“Deputies, that information is false and it is really important that Members of Parliament do not spread anti-vaccine information like this in the Chamber.”
Our Stephen needs to brush up on the latest science
Donnelly’s behaviour towards Verona Murphy was a disgrace. And he lied about what Michael McNamara said about getting a vaccine. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that passports reduce transmission- where was SF?
Donnelly makes previous Ministers for Health look good, and that’s saying something, has the ego of 10 men but the brain power of a 12 year old.
fair play to mcnamara, he’s not wrong. someone should tell donnelly to reign in the language – ‘reckless’, ‘declaring war’ etc.
+1
Shocking statement from Donnelly. Clearly on a power buzz.
Is there a code of conduct for TDs which covers use of language in terms of style and tone?
Power buzz? Panic, more like.
Would argue that he’s revelling in the power of position. The viral science doesn’t appear to matter to him anymore – he and many other elected representatives are more concerned with dictating and restricting human behaviour and securing this legislation in order to do so.
Is he, though? Seems to me more like he’s been handed a ton of responsibility and the power to deal with it but he doesn’t actually lnow what to do with it, or rather, he does know but I suspect the rest of the government won’t let him. The want symbolic actions that make it seem like they’re doing something while they push everything else back to normal, or normal for them, and then they get narky when the opposition insists on saying the quiet part loud.
Donnelly is like a modern day inquisitor accusing those would dare challenge the Covid orthodoxy as committing a kind of heresy. The heretics must be castigated for attempting to spread dangerous ideas that might cause people to question their faith in the Covid doctrines as set out by our blessed NPHET.
‘Inquisotor.’
He’s responding poorly to criticism, but he hasn’t got your flair for the dramatic. I could imagine a gombeen independant rising to his feet and declaiming ‘Minister Torquemada there is rounding up the heretics and sending us to the dungeons of Santiago while all our posessions roast in great big auto da fes, was it for this we murdered the castaway sailors of the Spainish Armada as they washed up on the coasts of Clare, Kerry and Donegal, saving the few we married because they we a fine looking bunch o’ lads, in fairness?!’
https://babylonbee.com/news/counter-cultural-rebel-believes-everything-athletes-reporters-actors-ceos-believe
Ooooh, I wasn’t expecting that.
every time you post something on here, nigel’s mickey grows by another half inch.
It’s the reductive dismissals that gets me. If you have any concerns about a new type of treatment with no long term safety data, then you are immediately labelled an anti vaxer.
This being respected doctors and even scientists who have spent their entire lives developing vaccines, including the actual inventor of mNRA.
Thank God for our Independents who recognise that we did not sign up for a badly run Communist society.
Now that things are getting complicated and you can’t solve them with a big bold unilateral stroke like ‘declare lockdown’ the government is showing exactly what a bunch of fumblers and ditherers they are. I definitely think vaccine passes aren’t much use any more, and for feck’s sake reign in the stupid language, justify your actions, stop lashing out.
Having said that, why are people who CAN’T get the vaccine wanting to go to social functions during a surge? It’s horrible for them, to be sure, but aren’t they incredibly vulnerable?
Something something they are planting chips in our brain
“Above all, it is reckless to fail to look at the science and to pretend that we are following the science but instead lurch from hysterical reaction to hysterical reaction. Let us look at the vaccines and let us look at their efficiency and efficacy. There are studies about this. Vaccines of course have stopped people from getting seriously ill, but now we know of waning immunity.
“We now know that how infectious somebody is, whether they are vaccinated or not, varies relatively little. We know that there is an enduring immunity from recovery. There are also question marks still about masks and about how small are the particles by which the virus is spread. Are they so small that masks do not capture them? If the Minister wants to talk about recklessness let us talk about it, but also have an honest reflection upon his role and how reckless he has been.”
This is all very reasonable, these are questions that i would like informed answers to. Where is our independence as a State if we neither have the tools nor the means to assess and address these important matters?
So much confusion has been sown and “science” has been hijacked and used as a propaganda tool to bulk out narratives and advance agendas. Tidbits and snippets, screen-grabs and morsels of data presented out of context and in isolation, lacking in depth and deployed so as to patronise is useless, enervating and subtracts.
From my rudimentary understanding of scientific method one starts with an assertion and sets out coldly to prove/disprove it. I have seen very little content of this calibre, rather it is the words of the layman super-imposed over what is purported to be scientific and further jumbled up with emotional agenda-driven hand-wringing and scaremongering. Oh to be clear and to the point ! Oh to step back from the self-righteous, ego-driven narcissistic interactions that pass for debate – sincerity notwithstanding. We are dumbing down and being treated as dumb, perceived and treated as nothing more that short attention spans with a paucity of thought.
From my rudimentary understanding of scientific method one starts with an assertion and sets out coldly to prove/disprove it.
It theory yes. In practice is it a lot more complex.
The problems include
– science is hard. Running a good experiment is hard.
– the scientist may be biased to start with, and will publish a biased paper.
– they may just want to publish for the sake of publishing.
– peer-review isn’t the gold standard it is assumed to be. It is difficult, time-consuming and thankless.
– The layman is biased and may falsely misrepresent research to support their view – I mean who ever reads the original research?
Yes, I know science is hard and that we have bias in the scientific community as much as anywhere else. Likewise i know that PhD students need to keep their hands in by getting published regularly in order to jump through the academic hoops to garner the required appearance of weight or gravitas to their reputations. However given the current context surely, just because science is hard etc., doesn’t mean that using the scientific mechanisms and methodologies at our disposal cannot be deployed to better effect. Just because something is hard isn’t a reason for not trying. Appreciate that you’re not saying that, i guess you’re saying that science is betrayed by politics as with all aspects of life.
Your last point about the layman is spot on of course – a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and unfortunately more prevalent in the last 18 months than it has been for quite some time.
Look my wittering won’t convince anyone of anything where hills have been chosen to die on. Still, i do think the questions posed are valid ones that appear to be lost or ignored in the daily pandemic din and bluster.
“Above all, it is reckless to fail to look at the science and to pretend that we are following the science but instead lurch from hysterical reaction to hysterical reaction. Let us look at the vaccines and let us look at their efficiency and efficacy. There are studies about this. Vaccines of course have stopped people from getting seriously ill, but now we know of waning immunity.
“We now know that how infectious somebody is, whether they are vaccinated or not, varies relatively little. We know that there is an enduring immunity from recovery. There are also question marks still about masks and about how small are the particles by which the virus is spread. Are they so small that masks do not capture them? If the Minister wants to talk about recklessness let us talk about it, but also have an honest reflection upon his role and how reckless he has been.”
This is all very reasonable, these are questions that i would like informed answers to. Where is our independence as a State if we neither have the tools nor the means to assess and address these important matters?
So much confusion has been sown and “science” has been hijacked and used as a propaganda tool to bulk out narratives and advance agendas. Tidbits and snippets, screen-grabs and morsels of data presented out of context and in isolation, lacking in depth and deployed so as to patronise is useless, enervating and adds nothing useful. From my rudimentary understanding of scientific method one starts with an assertion and sets out coldly to prove/disprove it. I have seen very little content of this calibre, rather it is the words of the layman super-imposed over what is purported to be scientific and further jumbled up with emotional agenda-driven hand-wringing and scaremongering. Oh to be clear and to the point ! Oh to step back from the self-righteous, ego-driven narcissistic interactions that pass for debate – sincerity notwithstanding. We are dumbing down and being treated as dumb, perceived and treated as nothing more that short attention spans lacking in the facility for deeper, more sustained thought.
+1 Fergalito.
“Within any important issue, there are always aspects no one wishes to discuss” – George Orwell
Herd immunity is a subject.
We need many more like Michael McNamara
Fair play to him
Michael McNamara is a credit to the country. Hes doing the work our opposition parties should be doing, asking questions of the government and challenging them on policy.
The question is why aren’t SF, the SocDems and Labour doing the same?