At a time when the entire country was under near house arrest- talk about being tone deaf.
TenPin Terry
Anyone got any decent New Year’s resolutions ?
Mine is a definite intention to do more charity work for injured lap dancers in 2022.
Birdie
Oh my goodness, that bullying of that poor girl is horrific. How on earth does it escalate to that without some sort of intervention from schools or guards etc? There has to be major consequences for people that bully such as a record that is only removed if they engage in re-education of how to be a normal part of society.
That poor girl, blind in one eye as a result. Totally disgusting behaviour and so much anger!
Birdie
I just read more about it. It’s been going on years by a group of boys. They used a hurl and a knife for crying out loud. How the hell has that gone on for so long to that poor beautiful girl.
It’s just the RuilleBuille dope coming in at 9am, dropping off a turd sandwich of lies as usual and everyone completely ignoring what he made up so they can get all the “Covid chats” they’ve had pent up over the new year off their chest at each other for 9 hours.
Grrrrr rabble rabble! NIIGEELLL!! BOOOONO!! LUKE O’NEILL!! MENTAL HEALTH SHAMING!!!
Pretty funny really.
Happy New Year lads. Maybe we should all try better this year.
Cui Bono?
What are you on about? There’s no anti-vax behaviour in this article.
Everyone who attended the card game was vaccinated. Barb would only socialise with vaccinated people. She was obviously misled to think these vaccines stop transmission. She was 82 and in cancer recovery with a weak immune system so vulnerable to covid and other respiratory viruses.
One of the vaccinated people had covid and still attended the game and passed it to Barb. So it’s a case of vaccinated people catching and spreading covid. Also an utter failure of these particular vaccines in stopping severe illness and death in the very people they’re designed to try and help.
Kdoc
Cui, Nobody ever promised that vaccines would stop transmission. Vaccines are a measure of protection and that protection is enhanced when they are coupled with other measures such as social distancing, mask wearing and keeping your social circle to a minimum. They are more than likely to keep you away from a Covid hospital ward.
Cui Bono?
“Nobody ever promised that vaccines would stop transmission.”
I know and I never said they were but a lot of people think they do stop transmission. The manufacturers designed them to try and stop severe illness and death, they did not design them to stop transmission. This is a key difference from traditional vaccines.
“They are more than likely to keep you away from a Covid hospital ward.”
Most of us are not at risk of hospitalisation from covid in the first place. As a healthy middle aged man, my risk of hospitalisation is only 0.032% for example – https://qcovid.org/
Kdoc
“Most of us are not at risk of hospitalisation from covid in the first place.”
That’s true, but it’s not the point, at least not the only point. It’s a community effort to stop the hospitals from being overwhelmed. We cease to be a civilised society if someone has a heart attack, a stroke, or is involved in a serious accident and we can’t provide an ICU bed for them.
I know we are living in the ‘it’s all about me’ generation, but being a ‘healthy middle aged man’, try to take the role of the other and see the bigger picture rather than focussing on yourself. Incidentally, some healthy middle-aged people have been laid low by the virus. It’s a bit of a lottery.
Nigel
Plus ‘hospitalisation’ is just a degree of severity – ‘up to but not quite hospitalisation’ can be pretty debilitating.
Cui Bono?
@Kdoc
You’re not using logic. If most of us are not at risk of hospitalisation from covid then we will not be stopping those who need ICU beds from getting them. The risk of needing an ICU from covid is even lower than the risk of hospitalisation too.
You’re now trying to say I’m not caring and think ‘it’s all about me’ when all I’m doing is facing reality and using logic. A huge % of our population have been propagandised to think covid is a death sentence or a guaranteed hospitalisation when in reality it’s mild to most of us. The focus should be on those at risk of serious illness and death i.e over 65s with serious comorbidities. You need to zoom out and look at the bigger picture instead of this narrow minded focus on a one size fits all approach. We know whose at risk so should focus on them, not people like me who are not at risk.
My reply to RuilleBuille was to point out that there was no anti-vax behaviour in that article because everyone involved was vaccinated and these particular vaccines don’t stop transmission. You’re going off on a tangent that is filled with holes.
Kdoc
Cui, Your logic is flawed. Our ICU beds are limited, ergo they can be filled very quickly if the matter gets out of hand.
Another point you might consider in your calculations is the average age of the unvaccinated in hospital is 38 whilst the average age for the vaccinated in hospital is 66. The latter tend to have serious underlying conditions.
Nigel
‘A huge % of our population have been propagandised to think covid is a death sentence or a guaranteed hospitalisation when in reality it’s mild to most of us’
This is a lie. Most people know exactly what covid is and how it works. They know even if it might not be a death sentence or a hospitalisation for them that here are enough people out there for whom it is to justify measures and restrictions and vaccinations. They also know ‘mild’ reative to hospitalisation can still be a pretty bad dose. Omicron is ‘mild’ but hospitalsations are climbing – that’s the nature of covid.
Tom J
Just like the weather, Nigel.
Cui Bono?
@Kdoc
can you share your source for the “average age of the unvaccinated in hospital is 38” claim please?
What % of this group are in hospital for covid?
What % are of this group are immunocompromised and can’t have these vaccines in the first place?
Cui Bono?
@Nigel
what I said is not a lie, I never said most people i.e over 50%, I said a huge % which could be 20% or 30%.
You are so far gone Nigel. Good luck with your hysteria for 2022 and beyond.
Nigel
But that’s still a lie, for all that it’s a bit of vague handwaving completely unsupported by anything other than your own convictions.
bisted
…at the risk of sounding smug Cui Bono…the unvaccinated are currently eight times more likely to catch Covid than the vaccinated…or, in your terms…an unvaccinated middle-aged healthy man is eight times more likely to contract Covid than a healthy vaccinated middle-aged man…how do those odds stack up?
Janet, dreams of sleep
yet every single one of my vaccinated friends had COVID over Christmas or has it now probably because they were running around to parties and friends.
Cui Bono?
@bisted
8 x 0 = 0
what’s your source for this claim anyway?
According to the NHS risk calculator my risk of catching and dying from COVID-19 is 0.0005% which is 1 in 200,000 whether vaccinated or not. The risk of hospitalisation (not ICU) does go from 0.0322% to 0.0062% if vaccinated but this level of risk is extremely low we should surely be able to agree on this.
Then you also need to look at the known risks from these vaccines such as myocarditis and the unknowns which will be known in time and way up the pros and cons and to me there’s no need for me or most of us to take it.
GiggidyGoo
“ There is nothing to suggest that he is actualy schizophrenic.”
Apart from himself saying he’s a bit of a schizophrenic. Sometimes I wonder if you have any capability of understanding anything.
“ No, I’m saying when YOU make a statement about anything we shouldn’t take it seriously.” Oh, so clever. Apart from the fact you are excusing a remark he made….about himself. And as usual turn it into a diversion from your own failures as in… “I haven’t paid enough attention to O’Neill to make up my mind on him.”
“ You took a throwaway remark seriously in bad faith, you’re not qualified to make such a diagnosis…..” How do you know it was a throwaway remark? By your own admission you ..” haven’t paid enough attention to O’Neill to make up my mind on him.”
“ If I criticise you for attacking him (spuriously) on mental health grounds then it is I who am attacking him on mental health grounds? ” I was attacking him for lying and as he’d already, himself, alluded to him being a ‘bit of a schizophrenic’, I looked up the symptoms. They pointed to a possible reason for his lying pronouncements. You’re the one who attached mental illness to him. You write “ Schiziophrenia is a mental health disorder” Bully for you. Own it, and don’t try to offload it.
Keep digging.
Nigel
‘Apart from himself saying he’s a bit of a schizophrenic.’
Not a diagnosis. Not indicative of a diagnosis. Just an excuse for you to get in there like a rat looking for dirt.
‘Apart from the fact you are excusing a remark he made’
It’s a bit insenstivie and not much used nowadays, but otherwise there’s nothing to excuse.
‘How do you know it was a throwaway remark?’
Because if he had seriously discussed his mental health anywhere else you’d have been all over it like a fly on crap.
‘I was attacking him for lying and as he’d already,’
You were linking him supposedly lying to schizophrenia, for no reason other than you were looking for more ways to personally attack the man. If he lied, he lied. That’s enough, but not for you.
‘They pointed to a possible reason for his lying pronouncements.’
Why would you possibly feel the need to link his supposed lying to a mental health disorder? Other than to find more grounds to attack the guy, of course.
‘Own it, and don’t try to offload it.’
1. How can I be ‘linking him to mental health’ when you’re the one claiming he’s schizophrenic?
2. Are you saying schizophrenia is not a mental health disorder?
hmmm
93 in ICU with the COOF
is less than 1% of ICU capacity.
Failed Pandemic has failed.
Nigel
‘Failed Pandemic has failed.’
You are so weird.
hmmm
It’s weird to keep push the failed Pandemic narrative without any proof of the same Pandemic….
And it’s weirder to ignore evidence (1% of ICU capacity) when that evidence destroys your failed narrative.
Or maybe not weird… Just the Babylon Bee man waiting for his next €9 dinner .
GiggidyGoo
You’re squirming far too much now Nigel. O’ Neill is the one claiming he’s a bit of a schizophrenic. You’re the one saying he has mental health issues because of it. Own what you’ve written. Don’t be gom ongoing for gods sake.
Nigel
The pandemic has failed? What does that even mean? It hasn’t killed and disabled enough people for you? 1% ICU capacity doesn’t prove or disprove anything, not on its own. Who has said ‘Aha, the ICU capacity on January 3rd 2022 will prove me right!’ Nobody has said that, except you, though without actually saying what it proves. When ICU capacity was higher, was the pandemic real? If ICU numbers increase will the pandemic get realer? You make no sense. Even your internal logic can’t be parsed.
Nigel
‘You’re the one saying he has mental health issues’
I’m literally saying there is no actual reason to think he has mental health issues, and that you are making this up out of a throwaway remark.
hmmm
If a “deadly virus” can be stopped by a €9 dinner then how “deadly” is it really Nigel?
Your Pandemic “logic” is non-existent absent proof of excess deaths.
Nigel
If covid kills, it’s deadly. Covid has killed. It also makes people very sick. Still not clear what you mean by ‘failed pandemic’ and how a snapshot of one ICU day proves it one way or the other. What about the times ICU figures were higher? What if the ICU figures rise again? How does that affect your ‘proof?’
Unless Nigel has a meaningful and verifiable value for this metric during the time span of his alleged “Pandemic Narrative” then he must accept that he has no proof of this so-called Pandemic and will further refrain from his concern shrilling.
I’ll wait.
Nigel
But what has that to do with 1% ICU capacity? You said that proved the pandemic is ‘fake.’ But what about days when the capacity was higher? What if capacity goes up again?
Presumably you’ve looked up the mortality figures yourself, what do they say? What about the more than five and a half million covid deaths woldwide?
Cui Bono?
@Kdoc
It’s a misleading publication because it’s an average rate from July 1st when over 62% of the population was still unvaccinated.
It also omits the % of this group that are nosocomial infections and the % that are immunocompromised and can’t have these vaccines in the first place. They could easily clarify and show the true full picture if they want to but they do not do it.
There’s been so much misleading info because of statistics like this that do not show the full picture. The CDC in the US were doing it from January 1st to July and it was even more ridiculous because it was an average of over 95% unvaccinated.
hmmm
Excess All Cause Mortality, Nigel.
Otherwise you have nothing to say of any value.
Go have a €9 dinner and think about it.
Nigel
Me? I have nothing to say? You’re the guy claiimng the pandemic is fake because of a one day ICU capacity number, and you can’t even explain why.
hmmm
You have nothing to say of value.
1% of hospital icu capacity is not an emergency.
No excess mortality means there is no pandemic.
Stop being a gamma, admit you are wrong, and end the shrilling ‘concern’ nonsense.
Nigel
‘1% of hospital icu capacity is not an emergency.’
One isolated part of one day two years in. Now that’s some selective data-picking.
Five and a half million dead worldwide last time I checked.
hmmm
“One isolated part of one day two years in.”
Been that way for weeks Nigel.
Your Pandemic is a bust.
Build a bridge and get over it.
Nigel
And when it was higher? Was it a bust then?
hmmm
Excess All Cause Mortality.
When you have a verifiable number for that come back to us.
Otherwise, go shrill elsewhere.
Nigel
One minute it’s ICU capacity, the next it’s excess mortality. Make up your mind. It’s almost as if you’re picking and choosing whatever arbitrary data seems to support your incredibly weird fantasies about the pandemic.
f_lawless
“Nobody ever promised that vaccines would stop transmission”
i keep seeing that repeated online. It’s not true though. Back in mid 2020 Bill Gates stated that this was a key goal of the future Covid vaccines due in 2021. The characterisation of the vaccines as a panacea was used as a justification to force much of the world into lockdown for several months.
Be a bit suprising if reducing transmission WASN’T a key goal. But of course we’ve had two fast-spreading variants since then which were not around when the vaccines were created, and even if they couldn’t reduce transmission in the variants, they do a pretty good job reducing severity and mortality.
Cui Bono?
@Nigel
viruses reduce in severity and mortality naturally without vaccines. This is just the natural course it’s taking regardless of these rushed vaccines.
Nigel
Yes, they do, we hope, but the problem with this virus and its variants is that it is killing, debilitating and disabling millions of people before that happens, hence measures and medicine to protect as many people as possible for the duration.
GiggidyGoo
@f.lawless. Our own Luke O’Neill made various pronouncements … as in
– He stated ‘Vaccinations are stopping transmission.’ (No they’re not)
– ‘When vaccination reaches a high level ‘the virus goes away’ ‘ (No it doesn’t)
– ‘We can prevent Covid through vaccination’ (No you can’t)
– ‘All of the vaccines, including AstraZeneca, will prevent you getting sick and ending up in hospital.’ (No they won’t).
Nigel
But those statements were made pre-variants.
GiggidyGoo
That’s a very lame reply to be honest Nigel. This is someone who is supposed to be a professor, and his predictions were as above. How come he couldn’t predict variants?
His predictions couldn’t have been correct anyway as the vaccines weren’t designed to do as he predicted – he should have known that, being a professor and all that, having studied them.
And he is stills spouting ‘facts’?
bisted
…one thing that St Luke has demonstrated throughout this pandemic has been the scientific rigour he applies to all his advice…this virus is new and we learn more about it daily…as evidence changes so does scientific opinion…
Nigel
‘How come he couldn’t predict variants?’
You can predict that there will probably be variants, but you can’t predict what they will be like or how they will interact with the vaccine. That was the best prediction he could give at the time. I don’t know if he also talked about variants, but plenty of other people definitely were.
‘as the vaccines weren’t designed to do as he predicted’
They were designed to do as he predicted. Thats what vaccines are supposed to do. But variants.
‘And he is stills spouting ‘facts’?’
Well, I hope so. As bisted pointed out, the situation is dynamic, not static.
GiggidyGoo
But, Bisted, if the vaccines weren’t designed to do as he says they would do, then he can’t hide behind the ‘evidence changes, opinion changes’ The evidence, from the manufacturers, was they wouldn’t do what he maintained they would, so his professional opinion is in the gutter.
@Nigel. See above to bisted.
p.s. re-read his pronouncements. They weren’t predictions. They were presented as facts.
Nigel
Giggidy that’s just not how it works. The vaccine worked as designed on the original virus. That was supplanted by subsequent variants. The vaccines are still providing protection against the variants but not to the same extent as they did for the original. It’s not that difficult a concept to grasp. It’s literally happening right in front of our eyes.
PS – they were the facts, or at least they were the hoped-for outcome. Then the situation changed.
f_lawless
It’s clear from statements made right at the beginning of Covid vaccine roll out that there was already an awareness that the vaccines would not prevent transmission but on the contrary would induce further variants that were resistant to those vaccines. From statements made by the likes of Patrick Vallance, Chief Scientific Advisor to the UK government, we can see that the pharmaceutical companies already had a business model and production pipeline in place in anticipation of this.
: https://twitter.com/TheThoughtGym/status/1473322317036109832
Have a look at this clip from Vallance on Jan 5th 2021:
(Remember the context of this statement is back when there had been some initial reports of vaccinated people subsequently testing positive but there were assurances that this was an “adult-only vaccine”; the public had been assured that no MASS vaccination of the population was planned; this was a vaccine for the vulnerable; and certainly no talk of everyone needing vaccine passports to participate in everyday activities. )
:
“The more you vaccinate, the more you put evolutionary pressure on the virus. So it’s true that as you get at the very high levels of vaccination the virus ..probably will mutate at that point and that means different vaccines will be needed in due course. And one of the very exciting things about the science behind this is the mRNA vaccines are incredibly fast at making the response to the mutations. So in due course, in years to come that is something that will give us an advantage…”
This reality is not mentioned by the authorities any more now that we’re headlong into the anti-science, totalitarian-like psychosis of needing to inject everyone including children
GiggidyGoo
@Nigel. I don’t know how you fail to understand the fact that the vaccine manufacturers never put forward that the vaccines would do as O’Neill said the would do. Did they say, as O’Neill maintained…
‘Vaccinations are stopping transmission.’
‘When vaccination will reach a high level ‘the virus goes away’
‘We can prevent Covid through vaccination’
‘All of the vaccines, including AstraZeneca, will prevent you getting sick and ending up in hospital.’
Those are what O’Neill stated as facts. Did the manufacturers state so?
bisted
…the last time I heard from St Luke was where he was sharing that he had gone into isolation because he had contracted Covid…he had just taken his booster jab but it was too soon to take effect…fortunately, he only experienced very mild symptoms and jokingly pointed out that he had gained the immunity from the booster and recovering from infection…
GiggidyGoo
That may be so. It’s nothing at all to do with his pronouncements that I’ve mentioned above.
Nigel
‘This reality is not mentioned by the authorities any more’
Since two virulent variants gave emerged from uncontrolled spread and not vaccination that seems like a moot point. It’s clear the real variant threat comes from uncontrolled spread.
Micko
It’s ok Bisted, Luke has a whole new loada predictions for 2022. ;-)
“That means no more masks, scrapping of social distancing and an end to the Covid pass system for hospitality” (by April)
‘Those are what O’Neill stated as facts. Did the manufacturers state so?’
I don’t know, but those seem like reasonable expecttions for a vaccine. Unfortunately, variants are a wild card. I know you’re on a weird kick to discredit this guy, but you’d have to dig into his actual work to do that, and i suspect you haven’t got the expertise.
SOQ
“St Lujke” is now predicting that we will need stabs every THREE MONTHS.
The man is an attention seeking clown. The sooner we lock these sorts back into sealed labs the better.
GiggidyGoo
@Nigel. I’ve as much expertise as yourself.
I’m sure you have a level of expertise at understanding the difference between facts and fiction. (O’Neill certainly hasn’t. He also is a self-confessed ‘bit of a schizophrenic’ https://dublin.ie/study/stories/world-class-teacher-luke-oneill/ ) I’ve just looked up symptoms of schizophrenia, and they explain to some extent why he is doing what he is. That begs the question as to why he should be the go-to ‘expert’ for the media to wheel out.
Nigel
Agree to differ on Luke O’Neill, except for the mental-health-shaming. Up yours for that.
GiggidyGoo
That’s his assessment of himself. Up yours therefore
bisted
…St Luke is a wonderful communicator…
Nigel
No, he made a remark about himself – nobody in good faith would mistake it for an actual diagnosis – and you used it as a pretext to attack him on mental health grounds because you don’t like the guy therefore anything is fair game to attack him. It’s okay, nobody expects any better from you.
Nigel
(Also, love the idea that someone with schizophrenia can’t be an expert that aoppears on the media, extra scummy points for that.)
GiggidyGoo
So, what you’re saying is that when O’Neill makes a statement, we shouldn’t take it seriously. Glad you agree then.
(Or is it you who decides what to take seriously)
O’Neill described himself as a ‘bit of a schizophrenic’. I didn’t describe him as that. I looked up the symptoms. Those symptoms suggest he, as a bit of a schizophrenic, is not the type of ‘expert’ the media need being wheeled out. And, as proof of that, my initial post about his pronouncements being incorrect support that view.
If you’re saying that i’m attacking him on mental health grounds, then it is your good self who is actually questioning his mental health, and trying to turn it into an attack on me. But sure, what do we expect from you eh?
Are you saying that, being a bit of a schizophrenic, O’Neill has mental health issues?
Wheeling him out to lie is far removed from describing him as an expert.
Nigel
‘So, what you’re saying is that when O’Neill makes a statement, we shouldn’t take it seriously. Glad you agree then’
No, I’m saying when YOU make a statement about anything we shouldn’t take it seriously. I haven’t paid enough attention to O’Neill to make up my mind on him.
‘my initial post about his pronouncements being incorrect support that view.’
You took a throwaway remark seriously in bad faith, you’re not qualified to make such a diagnosis, and having mental health issues is irrelevant as to whether a person makes correct or incorrect pronouncements.
‘If you’re saying that i’m attacking him on mental health grounds’
You are literally attacking him on mental health grounds.
‘then it is your good self who is actually questioning his mental health’
If I criticise you for attacking him (spuriously) on mental health grounds then it is I who am attacking him on mental health grounds? Would you look at the twist you’ve gotten yourself into?
‘Are you saying that, being a bit of a schizophrenic, O’Neill has mental health issues?’
There is nothing to suggest that he is actualy schizophrenic. Schiziophrenia is a mental health disorder. It does not disqualify anyone with the condition from being either an expert or appearing on any media in their role as an expert.
f_lawless
“Since two virulent variants gave emerged from uncontrolled spread and not vaccination that seems like a moot point. It’s clear the real variant threat comes from uncontrolled spread”
Evidence-free assertions don’t cut the mustard.
a. There’s no evidence that variants of note in 2021 have been any more virulent than the ones that they preceded – only that they highly specific immune response engendered by the Covid vaccines was less efficient in dealing with them
b. There’s no evidence said variants emerged from “uncontrolled spread and not vaccination”
Worth a read from Dr Gerry Quinn: https://www.hartgroup.org/unvaccinated-as-variant-factories/ “The first three significant new variants emerged from Brazil, South Africa and the UK which were all sites of vaccine trials. There have since been further variants which have appeared after vaccination roll out in several other countries. Some experts have speculated on the coincidence of such events and this phenomenon is currently being studied…”
Nigel
‘a. There’s no evidence that variants of note in 2021 have been any more virulent than the ones that they preceded’
Delta may not have been more virulent, but it got past the vaccines. Omicron is proving to be highly virulent, and even better at getting past the vaccines. Fortunately the vaccines seem to be reducing severity and mortality overall.
‘b. There’s no evidence said variants emerged from “uncontrolled spread and not vaccination”’
Delta emerged before vaccine rollout was fully underway, omicron seems to have emerged in Africa a largely under-vaccinated continent.
‘Some experts have speculated on the coincidence of such events and this phenomenon is currently being studied…”’
Yes, by all means, speculate on coincidences.
f_lawless
@Nigel
In summary then, you haven’t provided any evidence that certain variants of note emerged from “uncontrolled spread” as you put it, but more importantly, you’ve committed a logical fallacy by saying that the potential danger I referred to regarding mass vaccination is moot based on your assumption about where those variants emerged from.
Vaccine-induced evolutionary pressure is an already established scientific phenomenon. It can’t simply be ignored on the basis of believing that certain variants to date aren’t explained by this phenomenon. According to high-level expert Geert Vanden Bossche, the potential for disaster increases the closer we get to near total vaccination of populations.
Extremely high levels of vaccination coupled with high levels of transmission (due to the non-sterilising nature of the Covid vaccines) puts enormous evolutionary pressure on the virus to mutate into vaccine resistant forms and at the same time has the potentially to entirely knock out the individual’s innate immune response.
‘Vaccine-induced evolutionary pressure is an already established scientific phenomenon’
So is variants from uncontrolled spread, and I’d love to see your rationale for how delta is anything else, and omicron seems to have come out of vaccone-deficent Africa.
GiggidyGoo
Where’s your data Nigel?. You’ve spend quite an amount of posting on this thread spuriously discounting data that others have given but notably you haven’t offered anything in terms of data yourself. Quite easy to sit back, pick out quotations from others posts, make sweeping statements about them, belittle them, yet not produce any data yourself. Just a need to have the last word?
Nigel
The delta variant emerged before or early on during the vaccine rollout. The omicron appears so far to have emerged fom under-vaccinated African regions. I don’t know what other data you want.
GiggidyGoo
“The delta variant emerged before or early on during the vaccine rollout.”
“The omicron appears so far to have emerged fom under-vaccinated African regions. I don’t know what other data you want.”
Those are opinions. Where’s the provable data to categorically say that these are true? “Uncontrolled spread” Links please.
Nigel
No, the delta timeline is a fact. Presumably there will be further study of the omicron emergence, but I’m not pushing the narrative that it must have been caused by vaccinations.
GiggidyGoo
Good. You’ve provided no data to support what you’ve written. You don’t know then. Yet you try to discredit others above.
Nigel
I provided slightly more data than flawless, did, actually, in terms of the emergence of the variants in relation to vaccines. For example, I pointed out the timeline of delta and the apparent geographic emergence of omicron, which is more than flawless did.
Kdoc
Cui, I don’t believe you are willing to accept any statistics.
I have a relative working as a nurse in a COVID ward in a Kaiser Permanente hospital in the States and it’s a similar tale to that stated by our HSE i.e. the unvaccinated in their care are roughly half the age of the vaccinated in their care. Further, the elderly vaccinated have all got serious health issues prior to COVID.
Tom J
Everyone who attended the card game (claimed) to be vaccinated.
goldenbrown
“Grant of €30k for derelict house buyers”
A new grant of up to €30,000 to help people who buy derelict properties to renovate and live in is to be launched in the coming weeks, housing minister Darragh O’Brien has revealed
more PR guff tinkering around the edges of the issue…anyone who has put up so much as a shelf recently will know just how far “up to €30k” practically goes
Say someone buys such a premises, and divides it up into 10 apartments, do they get €30,000 x 10?
jungleman
No. Are you serious? Jesus.
GiggidyGoo
Just asking the question. You’re definite with your ‘no’ answer though – before the details have been announced. “ While the full details of the scheme, due to be announced in the first quarter of 2022, have yet to be finalised,….” means you don’t know.
jungleman
I am definite, yes. What you are suggesting is stupid. You are as usual getting annoyed about something that is not going to happen.
GiggidyGoo
Do you know the difference between a suggestion and a question?
Obviously not – now, that’s stupid. Toddle along.
I love Dry January.
All the Christmas jumper brigade have fupped off for another year.
All the plain wives have enjoyed their annual spin to the boozer.
Job done.
Just me and the other regulars back for another 12 months of normal service being resumed and footy commentary back to its proper volume level on the telly.
Yes, I know there’s Nollaig na mBan still to come on Thursday but that’s almost like a cabaret evening in my local.
Not long to Paddy’s Day now.
Get in.
Covid has now thankfully become an endemic disease in NY/States,its just part of everyday life.This final surge has a humber of silver linnings,increased immunity and booster hesitancy has all but disappeared.
Omicron will still do terrible damage among the unvaccinated,maybe some hospitals overwhelmed for a few weeks,but this surge will subside,this will NOT be another year of pandemic purgatory,endemic diseases do not need to dominate life the way a pandemic does,as Uncle Joe said,we should all be looking ahead to “a summer of freedom, a summer of joy.”
Nigel
Endemic diseases still require huge quantities of funding and staffing and medicine to monitor and prepare for and cope with. Covid being treated as endemic may mean normalising many of the measures people are constantly whining about now – mask wearing, social distancing, regular boosters, constantly watching out for new variants.
johnny
…is there is a correlation. btw compliance and educational levels attained and yeah income,indeed and yes i feel a lot ‘safer’ far away from Dublin,can NY and the north east states handle it as endemic,absolutely !
can Ireland,WeWork pulled from Cleary’s they were the anchor,tech bro’s are also pulling out.
anyone now can understand the math,its that simple.
….study analyzed more than 528,000 omicron cases and 573,000 delta cases from Nov. 22 through Dec. 26 in England…. found Covid vaccines reduce the risk of hospitalization from omicron across the board, though a booster dose provides the best protection…..U.K. Health Secretary Sajid Javid said the unvaccinated are eight times more likely to end up in the hospital from Covid….
How convenient- it is list of bills looking to be passed from 5th January in NYS- Hitler would be proud.
Just keep playing your penny whistle there while lamenting about civil rights.
Nigel
It’s an uncorroborated, unsourced image posted on a website that claims to be a list of bills. You’re acting as if it’s accurate even though you haven’t bothered to check before linking to it. Goebbels would be proud.
johnny
(what is NYS-new york senate?)
Tin Whistle?
never forget where your from,is Jan 6th not ‘your’ day now:)
….
Derry ambassadors for all things noisy, The Undertones bring their mammoth back catalogue of punk nuggets to their home audience for a special historical night, playing songs that have gone from the streets of Derry to the streets of New York and are as relevant today as they were in the 1970s.
…..
Hitler and New York-huh thats just not kosher… you mean hymie town:)
Eddie Murphy Hymie Town-for all the schmucks that evoke Hilter and false equivalency.
These are bills A8378, A279a/S75a, A78u29/S6495, A2240/S45, A8398, A3091/A3041. A822/S931, A416- that is a total of EIGHT bills- now either they exist or they do not?
f_lawless
Johnny, the U.K. Health Security Agency which carried out the study referred to in the article you linked to has blatantly rigged the data in order to fit politically desirable outcomes.
NHS consultant pathologist, Dr Clare Craig links to a piece that gives a comprehensive break down of what the UKHSA have been doing:
UKHSA now put all the risk from the first *28 days* after vaccination into the “unvaccinated” category
They’re digging a hole….
(link to article)
”
Nigel
Jesus why are the articles you people link to always unreadable guff full of undigestible blocks of sarcastic rhetoric? It’s like bad YouTube translated to bad prose. I’m sorry, it’s impenetrable and dumb. For people who generate so much flannel about narratives, clarity coherence and concision are not your strong suits.
Chris
Pathetic Nigel, you can’t argue with the facts – so you decide to police the tone of the article. Laughable.
johnny
Dr Clare Craig…..NHS consultant pathologist….eh no,repeating it will not make it true.
(Clare carries out her ahem ‘research’ on her own as a individual)
Nigel
‘Pathetic Nigel, you can’t argue with the facts ‘
I can’r argue with illegible.
Chris
@ Tom J I’m 5ft 11″. My slight on Higgins was due to the fact that most dictators tend to be of short stature. I’m not ‘height-est’ in normal circumstances.
Tom J
He is not a dictator, he was voted in by the people. Dictators are not voted in.
which part ?
…In her home town of Bristol she helped launch “At-Bristol”, a Millennium Commission-funded hands-on science centre and leisure destination. …
where does it state she is a …NHS consultant pathologist…where ?
who besides herself has she worked on covid with ?
note-second link outdated in fact NOT dated,how long was she at McKinsey,same time as Donnelly:)
its like taking candy from a spoilt child,amazes me you’ve no shame,none at all,are you even Irish?
your links are garbage,just nonsense,get a job or something,responding to you is a waste everyone’s time,do you even read them?
f_lawless
Actually Chris that’s a different Clare Craig
My point in referring to her experience as an NHS consultant is to demonstrate that she has sound credentials. Obviously she’s not speaking on behalf of the NHS through her twitter account
Here’s one of various references to the person in question: https://www.ncri.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/CM-Path-Update-October-2017.pdf “Dr Clare Craig .. is the clinical lead for cancer recruitment at Genomics England and prior to this, was a consultant cytopathologist in the NHS. Clare will join the molecular diagnostics subgroup of Workstream 4
f_lawless
She previously given expert witness testimony to a UK government committee hearing on Covid:
She’s also part of the “Health Advisory and Recovery Team” (HART) which is a group of independent experts providing analysis and critique of official Covid policies
f_lawless
Hmm my previous comment disappeared. I’ll try again.
Chris that’s actually a different Clare Craig.
Here’s one of various references to Dr Clare Craig (the pathologist)’s consultancy work with the NHS:
“Dr Clare Craig . is the clinical lead for cancer recruitment at Genomics England and prior to this, was a consultant cytopathologist in the NHS…”
Obviously she wouldn’t be speaking on behalf of the NHS through her personal Twitter account. I made a reference to her NHS work to demonstrate her credentials
Happy New Year to all – including the miserable gits who don’t appreciate our beloved Gardaí :P
Remember this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj23_Z6UECk
How could you forget?
At a time when the entire country was under near house arrest- talk about being tone deaf.
Anyone got any decent New Year’s resolutions ?
Mine is a definite intention to do more charity work for injured lap dancers in 2022.
Oh my goodness, that bullying of that poor girl is horrific. How on earth does it escalate to that without some sort of intervention from schools or guards etc? There has to be major consequences for people that bully such as a record that is only removed if they engage in re-education of how to be a normal part of society.
That poor girl, blind in one eye as a result. Totally disgusting behaviour and so much anger!
I just read more about it. It’s been going on years by a group of boys. They used a hurl and a knife for crying out loud. How the hell has that gone on for so long to that poor beautiful girl.
There is no answer.
Typical selfish anti-vaxxer behaviour.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10363367/Woman-82-dies-catching-COVID-friend-hid-infection-attend-card-game.html
Where does it say they were not vaccinated.
Ah sure It doesn’t ManT
It’s just the RuilleBuille dope coming in at 9am, dropping off a turd sandwich of lies as usual and everyone completely ignoring what he made up so they can get all the “Covid chats” they’ve had pent up over the new year off their chest at each other for 9 hours.
Grrrrr rabble rabble! NIIGEELLL!! BOOOONO!! LUKE O’NEILL!! MENTAL HEALTH SHAMING!!!
Pretty funny really.
Happy New Year lads. Maybe we should all try better this year.
What are you on about? There’s no anti-vax behaviour in this article.
Everyone who attended the card game was vaccinated. Barb would only socialise with vaccinated people. She was obviously misled to think these vaccines stop transmission. She was 82 and in cancer recovery with a weak immune system so vulnerable to covid and other respiratory viruses.
One of the vaccinated people had covid and still attended the game and passed it to Barb. So it’s a case of vaccinated people catching and spreading covid. Also an utter failure of these particular vaccines in stopping severe illness and death in the very people they’re designed to try and help.
Cui, Nobody ever promised that vaccines would stop transmission. Vaccines are a measure of protection and that protection is enhanced when they are coupled with other measures such as social distancing, mask wearing and keeping your social circle to a minimum. They are more than likely to keep you away from a Covid hospital ward.
“Nobody ever promised that vaccines would stop transmission.”
I know and I never said they were but a lot of people think they do stop transmission. The manufacturers designed them to try and stop severe illness and death, they did not design them to stop transmission. This is a key difference from traditional vaccines.
“They are more than likely to keep you away from a Covid hospital ward.”
Most of us are not at risk of hospitalisation from covid in the first place. As a healthy middle aged man, my risk of hospitalisation is only 0.032% for example – https://qcovid.org/
“Most of us are not at risk of hospitalisation from covid in the first place.”
That’s true, but it’s not the point, at least not the only point. It’s a community effort to stop the hospitals from being overwhelmed. We cease to be a civilised society if someone has a heart attack, a stroke, or is involved in a serious accident and we can’t provide an ICU bed for them.
I know we are living in the ‘it’s all about me’ generation, but being a ‘healthy middle aged man’, try to take the role of the other and see the bigger picture rather than focussing on yourself. Incidentally, some healthy middle-aged people have been laid low by the virus. It’s a bit of a lottery.
Plus ‘hospitalisation’ is just a degree of severity – ‘up to but not quite hospitalisation’ can be pretty debilitating.
@Kdoc
You’re not using logic. If most of us are not at risk of hospitalisation from covid then we will not be stopping those who need ICU beds from getting them. The risk of needing an ICU from covid is even lower than the risk of hospitalisation too.
You’re now trying to say I’m not caring and think ‘it’s all about me’ when all I’m doing is facing reality and using logic. A huge % of our population have been propagandised to think covid is a death sentence or a guaranteed hospitalisation when in reality it’s mild to most of us. The focus should be on those at risk of serious illness and death i.e over 65s with serious comorbidities. You need to zoom out and look at the bigger picture instead of this narrow minded focus on a one size fits all approach. We know whose at risk so should focus on them, not people like me who are not at risk.
My reply to RuilleBuille was to point out that there was no anti-vax behaviour in that article because everyone involved was vaccinated and these particular vaccines don’t stop transmission. You’re going off on a tangent that is filled with holes.
Cui, Your logic is flawed. Our ICU beds are limited, ergo they can be filled very quickly if the matter gets out of hand.
Another point you might consider in your calculations is the average age of the unvaccinated in hospital is 38 whilst the average age for the vaccinated in hospital is 66. The latter tend to have serious underlying conditions.
‘A huge % of our population have been propagandised to think covid is a death sentence or a guaranteed hospitalisation when in reality it’s mild to most of us’
This is a lie. Most people know exactly what covid is and how it works. They know even if it might not be a death sentence or a hospitalisation for them that here are enough people out there for whom it is to justify measures and restrictions and vaccinations. They also know ‘mild’ reative to hospitalisation can still be a pretty bad dose. Omicron is ‘mild’ but hospitalsations are climbing – that’s the nature of covid.
Just like the weather, Nigel.
@Kdoc
can you share your source for the “average age of the unvaccinated in hospital is 38” claim please?
What % of this group are in hospital for covid?
What % are of this group are immunocompromised and can’t have these vaccines in the first place?
@Nigel
what I said is not a lie, I never said most people i.e over 50%, I said a huge % which could be 20% or 30%.
You are so far gone Nigel. Good luck with your hysteria for 2022 and beyond.
But that’s still a lie, for all that it’s a bit of vague handwaving completely unsupported by anything other than your own convictions.
…at the risk of sounding smug Cui Bono…the unvaccinated are currently eight times more likely to catch Covid than the vaccinated…or, in your terms…an unvaccinated middle-aged healthy man is eight times more likely to contract Covid than a healthy vaccinated middle-aged man…how do those odds stack up?
yet every single one of my vaccinated friends had COVID over Christmas or has it now probably because they were running around to parties and friends.
@bisted
8 x 0 = 0
what’s your source for this claim anyway?
According to the NHS risk calculator my risk of catching and dying from COVID-19 is 0.0005% which is 1 in 200,000 whether vaccinated or not. The risk of hospitalisation (not ICU) does go from 0.0322% to 0.0062% if vaccinated but this level of risk is extremely low we should surely be able to agree on this.
Then you also need to look at the known risks from these vaccines such as myocarditis and the unknowns which will be known in time and way up the pros and cons and to me there’s no need for me or most of us to take it.
“ There is nothing to suggest that he is actualy schizophrenic.”
Apart from himself saying he’s a bit of a schizophrenic. Sometimes I wonder if you have any capability of understanding anything.
“ No, I’m saying when YOU make a statement about anything we shouldn’t take it seriously.” Oh, so clever. Apart from the fact you are excusing a remark he made….about himself. And as usual turn it into a diversion from your own failures as in… “I haven’t paid enough attention to O’Neill to make up my mind on him.”
“ You took a throwaway remark seriously in bad faith, you’re not qualified to make such a diagnosis…..” How do you know it was a throwaway remark? By your own admission you ..” haven’t paid enough attention to O’Neill to make up my mind on him.”
“ If I criticise you for attacking him (spuriously) on mental health grounds then it is I who am attacking him on mental health grounds? ” I was attacking him for lying and as he’d already, himself, alluded to him being a ‘bit of a schizophrenic’, I looked up the symptoms. They pointed to a possible reason for his lying pronouncements. You’re the one who attached mental illness to him. You write “ Schiziophrenia is a mental health disorder” Bully for you. Own it, and don’t try to offload it.
Keep digging.
‘Apart from himself saying he’s a bit of a schizophrenic.’
Not a diagnosis. Not indicative of a diagnosis. Just an excuse for you to get in there like a rat looking for dirt.
‘Apart from the fact you are excusing a remark he made’
It’s a bit insenstivie and not much used nowadays, but otherwise there’s nothing to excuse.
‘How do you know it was a throwaway remark?’
Because if he had seriously discussed his mental health anywhere else you’d have been all over it like a fly on crap.
‘I was attacking him for lying and as he’d already,’
You were linking him supposedly lying to schizophrenia, for no reason other than you were looking for more ways to personally attack the man. If he lied, he lied. That’s enough, but not for you.
‘They pointed to a possible reason for his lying pronouncements.’
Why would you possibly feel the need to link his supposed lying to a mental health disorder? Other than to find more grounds to attack the guy, of course.
‘Own it, and don’t try to offload it.’
1. How can I be ‘linking him to mental health’ when you’re the one claiming he’s schizophrenic?
2. Are you saying schizophrenia is not a mental health disorder?
93 in ICU with the COOF
is less than 1% of ICU capacity.
Failed Pandemic has failed.
‘Failed Pandemic has failed.’
You are so weird.
It’s weird to keep push the failed Pandemic narrative without any proof of the same Pandemic….
And it’s weirder to ignore evidence (1% of ICU capacity) when that evidence destroys your failed narrative.
Or maybe not weird… Just the Babylon Bee man waiting for his next €9 dinner .
You’re squirming far too much now Nigel. O’ Neill is the one claiming he’s a bit of a schizophrenic. You’re the one saying he has mental health issues because of it. Own what you’ve written. Don’t be gom ongoing for gods sake.
The pandemic has failed? What does that even mean? It hasn’t killed and disabled enough people for you? 1% ICU capacity doesn’t prove or disprove anything, not on its own. Who has said ‘Aha, the ICU capacity on January 3rd 2022 will prove me right!’ Nobody has said that, except you, though without actually saying what it proves. When ICU capacity was higher, was the pandemic real? If ICU numbers increase will the pandemic get realer? You make no sense. Even your internal logic can’t be parsed.
‘You’re the one saying he has mental health issues’
I’m literally saying there is no actual reason to think he has mental health issues, and that you are making this up out of a throwaway remark.
If a “deadly virus” can be stopped by a €9 dinner then how “deadly” is it really Nigel?
Your Pandemic “logic” is non-existent absent proof of excess deaths.
If covid kills, it’s deadly. Covid has killed. It also makes people very sick. Still not clear what you mean by ‘failed pandemic’ and how a snapshot of one ICU day proves it one way or the other. What about the times ICU figures were higher? What if the ICU figures rise again? How does that affect your ‘proof?’
Cui, apologies for delayed reply. I was called away for a dip in Portmarnock and then dragged kicking and screaming to the Pavilion S.C.
I think you’ll find the information you want here:
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cicuha/covid-19insightbulletinsicuandhospitaladmissionsseries1/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=COVIDICUSeries1
Excess All Cause Mortality.
Unless Nigel has a meaningful and verifiable value for this metric during the time span of his alleged “Pandemic Narrative” then he must accept that he has no proof of this so-called Pandemic and will further refrain from his concern shrilling.
I’ll wait.
But what has that to do with 1% ICU capacity? You said that proved the pandemic is ‘fake.’ But what about days when the capacity was higher? What if capacity goes up again?
Presumably you’ve looked up the mortality figures yourself, what do they say? What about the more than five and a half million covid deaths woldwide?
@Kdoc
It’s a misleading publication because it’s an average rate from July 1st when over 62% of the population was still unvaccinated.
It also omits the % of this group that are nosocomial infections and the % that are immunocompromised and can’t have these vaccines in the first place. They could easily clarify and show the true full picture if they want to but they do not do it.
There’s been so much misleading info because of statistics like this that do not show the full picture. The CDC in the US were doing it from January 1st to July and it was even more ridiculous because it was an average of over 95% unvaccinated.
Excess All Cause Mortality, Nigel.
Otherwise you have nothing to say of any value.
Go have a €9 dinner and think about it.
Me? I have nothing to say? You’re the guy claiimng the pandemic is fake because of a one day ICU capacity number, and you can’t even explain why.
You have nothing to say of value.
1% of hospital icu capacity is not an emergency.
No excess mortality means there is no pandemic.
Stop being a gamma, admit you are wrong, and end the shrilling ‘concern’ nonsense.
‘1% of hospital icu capacity is not an emergency.’
One isolated part of one day two years in. Now that’s some selective data-picking.
Five and a half million dead worldwide last time I checked.
“One isolated part of one day two years in.”
Been that way for weeks Nigel.
Your Pandemic is a bust.
Build a bridge and get over it.
And when it was higher? Was it a bust then?
Excess All Cause Mortality.
When you have a verifiable number for that come back to us.
Otherwise, go shrill elsewhere.
One minute it’s ICU capacity, the next it’s excess mortality. Make up your mind. It’s almost as if you’re picking and choosing whatever arbitrary data seems to support your incredibly weird fantasies about the pandemic.
“Nobody ever promised that vaccines would stop transmission”
i keep seeing that repeated online. It’s not true though. Back in mid 2020 Bill Gates stated that this was a key goal of the future Covid vaccines due in 2021. The characterisation of the vaccines as a panacea was used as a justification to force much of the world into lockdown for several months.
And from a US context, here’s a clip of various people including Fauci and Biden making that claim about transmission as far in as June,July 2021:
https://twitter.com/cwt_news/status/1475657029150986241
Be a bit suprising if reducing transmission WASN’T a key goal. But of course we’ve had two fast-spreading variants since then which were not around when the vaccines were created, and even if they couldn’t reduce transmission in the variants, they do a pretty good job reducing severity and mortality.
@Nigel
viruses reduce in severity and mortality naturally without vaccines. This is just the natural course it’s taking regardless of these rushed vaccines.
Yes, they do, we hope, but the problem with this virus and its variants is that it is killing, debilitating and disabling millions of people before that happens, hence measures and medicine to protect as many people as possible for the duration.
@f.lawless. Our own Luke O’Neill made various pronouncements … as in
– He stated ‘Vaccinations are stopping transmission.’ (No they’re not)
– ‘When vaccination reaches a high level ‘the virus goes away’ ‘ (No it doesn’t)
– ‘We can prevent Covid through vaccination’ (No you can’t)
– ‘All of the vaccines, including AstraZeneca, will prevent you getting sick and ending up in hospital.’ (No they won’t).
But those statements were made pre-variants.
That’s a very lame reply to be honest Nigel. This is someone who is supposed to be a professor, and his predictions were as above. How come he couldn’t predict variants?
His predictions couldn’t have been correct anyway as the vaccines weren’t designed to do as he predicted – he should have known that, being a professor and all that, having studied them.
And he is stills spouting ‘facts’?
…one thing that St Luke has demonstrated throughout this pandemic has been the scientific rigour he applies to all his advice…this virus is new and we learn more about it daily…as evidence changes so does scientific opinion…
‘How come he couldn’t predict variants?’
You can predict that there will probably be variants, but you can’t predict what they will be like or how they will interact with the vaccine. That was the best prediction he could give at the time. I don’t know if he also talked about variants, but plenty of other people definitely were.
‘as the vaccines weren’t designed to do as he predicted’
They were designed to do as he predicted. Thats what vaccines are supposed to do. But variants.
‘And he is stills spouting ‘facts’?’
Well, I hope so. As bisted pointed out, the situation is dynamic, not static.
But, Bisted, if the vaccines weren’t designed to do as he says they would do, then he can’t hide behind the ‘evidence changes, opinion changes’ The evidence, from the manufacturers, was they wouldn’t do what he maintained they would, so his professional opinion is in the gutter.
@Nigel. See above to bisted.
p.s. re-read his pronouncements. They weren’t predictions. They were presented as facts.
Giggidy that’s just not how it works. The vaccine worked as designed on the original virus. That was supplanted by subsequent variants. The vaccines are still providing protection against the variants but not to the same extent as they did for the original. It’s not that difficult a concept to grasp. It’s literally happening right in front of our eyes.
PS – they were the facts, or at least they were the hoped-for outcome. Then the situation changed.
It’s clear from statements made right at the beginning of Covid vaccine roll out that there was already an awareness that the vaccines would not prevent transmission but on the contrary would induce further variants that were resistant to those vaccines. From statements made by the likes of Patrick Vallance, Chief Scientific Advisor to the UK government, we can see that the pharmaceutical companies already had a business model and production pipeline in place in anticipation of this.
:
https://twitter.com/TheThoughtGym/status/1473322317036109832
Have a look at this clip from Vallance on Jan 5th 2021:
(Remember the context of this statement is back when there had been some initial reports of vaccinated people subsequently testing positive but there were assurances that this was an “adult-only vaccine”; the public had been assured that no MASS vaccination of the population was planned; this was a vaccine for the vulnerable; and certainly no talk of everyone needing vaccine passports to participate in everyday activities. )
:
“The more you vaccinate, the more you put evolutionary pressure on the virus. So it’s true that as you get at the very high levels of vaccination the virus ..probably will mutate at that point and that means different vaccines will be needed in due course. And one of the very exciting things about the science behind this is the mRNA vaccines are incredibly fast at making the response to the mutations. So in due course, in years to come that is something that will give us an advantage…”
This reality is not mentioned by the authorities any more now that we’re headlong into the anti-science, totalitarian-like psychosis of needing to inject everyone including children
@Nigel. I don’t know how you fail to understand the fact that the vaccine manufacturers never put forward that the vaccines would do as O’Neill said the would do. Did they say, as O’Neill maintained…
‘Vaccinations are stopping transmission.’
‘When vaccination will reach a high level ‘the virus goes away’
‘We can prevent Covid through vaccination’
‘All of the vaccines, including AstraZeneca, will prevent you getting sick and ending up in hospital.’
Those are what O’Neill stated as facts. Did the manufacturers state so?
…the last time I heard from St Luke was where he was sharing that he had gone into isolation because he had contracted Covid…he had just taken his booster jab but it was too soon to take effect…fortunately, he only experienced very mild symptoms and jokingly pointed out that he had gained the immunity from the booster and recovering from infection…
That may be so. It’s nothing at all to do with his pronouncements that I’ve mentioned above.
‘This reality is not mentioned by the authorities any more’
Since two virulent variants gave emerged from uncontrolled spread and not vaccination that seems like a moot point. It’s clear the real variant threat comes from uncontrolled spread.
It’s ok Bisted, Luke has a whole new loada predictions for 2022. ;-)
“That means no more masks, scrapping of social distancing and an end to the Covid pass system for hospitality” (by April)
April O’Neill…
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/professor-luke-oneill-says-ireland-25826999.amp
‘Those are what O’Neill stated as facts. Did the manufacturers state so?’
I don’t know, but those seem like reasonable expecttions for a vaccine. Unfortunately, variants are a wild card. I know you’re on a weird kick to discredit this guy, but you’d have to dig into his actual work to do that, and i suspect you haven’t got the expertise.
“St Lujke” is now predicting that we will need stabs every THREE MONTHS.
The man is an attention seeking clown. The sooner we lock these sorts back into sealed labs the better.
@Nigel. I’ve as much expertise as yourself.
I’m sure you have a level of expertise at understanding the difference between facts and fiction. (O’Neill certainly hasn’t. He also is a self-confessed ‘bit of a schizophrenic’ https://dublin.ie/study/stories/world-class-teacher-luke-oneill/ ) I’ve just looked up symptoms of schizophrenia, and they explain to some extent why he is doing what he is. That begs the question as to why he should be the go-to ‘expert’ for the media to wheel out.
Agree to differ on Luke O’Neill, except for the mental-health-shaming. Up yours for that.
That’s his assessment of himself. Up yours therefore
…St Luke is a wonderful communicator…
No, he made a remark about himself – nobody in good faith would mistake it for an actual diagnosis – and you used it as a pretext to attack him on mental health grounds because you don’t like the guy therefore anything is fair game to attack him. It’s okay, nobody expects any better from you.
(Also, love the idea that someone with schizophrenia can’t be an expert that aoppears on the media, extra scummy points for that.)
So, what you’re saying is that when O’Neill makes a statement, we shouldn’t take it seriously. Glad you agree then.
(Or is it you who decides what to take seriously)
O’Neill described himself as a ‘bit of a schizophrenic’. I didn’t describe him as that. I looked up the symptoms. Those symptoms suggest he, as a bit of a schizophrenic, is not the type of ‘expert’ the media need being wheeled out. And, as proof of that, my initial post about his pronouncements being incorrect support that view.
If you’re saying that i’m attacking him on mental health grounds, then it is your good self who is actually questioning his mental health, and trying to turn it into an attack on me. But sure, what do we expect from you eh?
Are you saying that, being a bit of a schizophrenic, O’Neill has mental health issues?
Wheeling him out to lie is far removed from describing him as an expert.
‘So, what you’re saying is that when O’Neill makes a statement, we shouldn’t take it seriously. Glad you agree then’
No, I’m saying when YOU make a statement about anything we shouldn’t take it seriously. I haven’t paid enough attention to O’Neill to make up my mind on him.
‘my initial post about his pronouncements being incorrect support that view.’
You took a throwaway remark seriously in bad faith, you’re not qualified to make such a diagnosis, and having mental health issues is irrelevant as to whether a person makes correct or incorrect pronouncements.
‘If you’re saying that i’m attacking him on mental health grounds’
You are literally attacking him on mental health grounds.
‘then it is your good self who is actually questioning his mental health’
If I criticise you for attacking him (spuriously) on mental health grounds then it is I who am attacking him on mental health grounds? Would you look at the twist you’ve gotten yourself into?
‘Are you saying that, being a bit of a schizophrenic, O’Neill has mental health issues?’
There is nothing to suggest that he is actualy schizophrenic. Schiziophrenia is a mental health disorder. It does not disqualify anyone with the condition from being either an expert or appearing on any media in their role as an expert.
“Since two virulent variants gave emerged from uncontrolled spread and not vaccination that seems like a moot point. It’s clear the real variant threat comes from uncontrolled spread”
Evidence-free assertions don’t cut the mustard.
a. There’s no evidence that variants of note in 2021 have been any more virulent than the ones that they preceded – only that they highly specific immune response engendered by the Covid vaccines was less efficient in dealing with them
b. There’s no evidence said variants emerged from “uncontrolled spread and not vaccination”
Worth a read from Dr Gerry Quinn:
https://www.hartgroup.org/unvaccinated-as-variant-factories/
“The first three significant new variants emerged from Brazil, South Africa and the UK which were all sites of vaccine trials. There have since been further variants which have appeared after vaccination roll out in several other countries. Some experts have speculated on the coincidence of such events and this phenomenon is currently being studied…”
‘a. There’s no evidence that variants of note in 2021 have been any more virulent than the ones that they preceded’
Delta may not have been more virulent, but it got past the vaccines. Omicron is proving to be highly virulent, and even better at getting past the vaccines. Fortunately the vaccines seem to be reducing severity and mortality overall.
‘b. There’s no evidence said variants emerged from “uncontrolled spread and not vaccination”’
Delta emerged before vaccine rollout was fully underway, omicron seems to have emerged in Africa a largely under-vaccinated continent.
‘Some experts have speculated on the coincidence of such events and this phenomenon is currently being studied…”’
Yes, by all means, speculate on coincidences.
@Nigel
In summary then, you haven’t provided any evidence that certain variants of note emerged from “uncontrolled spread” as you put it, but more importantly, you’ve committed a logical fallacy by saying that the potential danger I referred to regarding mass vaccination is moot based on your assumption about where those variants emerged from.
Vaccine-induced evolutionary pressure is an already established scientific phenomenon. It can’t simply be ignored on the basis of believing that certain variants to date aren’t explained by this phenomenon. According to high-level expert Geert Vanden Bossche, the potential for disaster increases the closer we get to near total vaccination of populations.
Extremely high levels of vaccination coupled with high levels of transmission (due to the non-sterilising nature of the Covid vaccines) puts enormous evolutionary pressure on the virus to mutate into vaccine resistant forms and at the same time has the potentially to entirely knock out the individual’s innate immune response.
Have a listen to what he to say for a perspective out side your usual circle of influence:
https://www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org/videos-and-interviews/second-call-to-who-please-dont-vaccinate-against-omicron
‘Vaccine-induced evolutionary pressure is an already established scientific phenomenon’
So is variants from uncontrolled spread, and I’d love to see your rationale for how delta is anything else, and omicron seems to have come out of vaccone-deficent Africa.
Where’s your data Nigel?. You’ve spend quite an amount of posting on this thread spuriously discounting data that others have given but notably you haven’t offered anything in terms of data yourself. Quite easy to sit back, pick out quotations from others posts, make sweeping statements about them, belittle them, yet not produce any data yourself. Just a need to have the last word?
The delta variant emerged before or early on during the vaccine rollout. The omicron appears so far to have emerged fom under-vaccinated African regions. I don’t know what other data you want.
“The delta variant emerged before or early on during the vaccine rollout.”
“The omicron appears so far to have emerged fom under-vaccinated African regions. I don’t know what other data you want.”
Those are opinions. Where’s the provable data to categorically say that these are true? “Uncontrolled spread” Links please.
No, the delta timeline is a fact. Presumably there will be further study of the omicron emergence, but I’m not pushing the narrative that it must have been caused by vaccinations.
Good. You’ve provided no data to support what you’ve written. You don’t know then. Yet you try to discredit others above.
I provided slightly more data than flawless, did, actually, in terms of the emergence of the variants in relation to vaccines. For example, I pointed out the timeline of delta and the apparent geographic emergence of omicron, which is more than flawless did.
Cui, I don’t believe you are willing to accept any statistics.
I have a relative working as a nurse in a COVID ward in a Kaiser Permanente hospital in the States and it’s a similar tale to that stated by our HSE i.e. the unvaccinated in their care are roughly half the age of the vaccinated in their care. Further, the elderly vaccinated have all got serious health issues prior to COVID.
Everyone who attended the card game (claimed) to be vaccinated.
“Grant of €30k for derelict house buyers”
A new grant of up to €30,000 to help people who buy derelict properties to renovate and live in is to be launched in the coming weeks, housing minister Darragh O’Brien has revealed
more PR guff tinkering around the edges of the issue…anyone who has put up so much as a shelf recently will know just how far “up to €30k” practically goes
another big fat LOL from sausage fingers
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40776951.html
new year…?
new stuff…?
to be launched…?
PR guff…?
big fat LOLs…?
roll up, roll up, plenty for everyone…!
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/leo-varadkar-denies-going-to-champagne-party-during-lockdown-to-celebrate-un-seat-41204092.html
…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zvJJnwE2cc
Say someone buys such a premises, and divides it up into 10 apartments, do they get €30,000 x 10?
No. Are you serious? Jesus.
Just asking the question. You’re definite with your ‘no’ answer though – before the details have been announced. “ While the full details of the scheme, due to be announced in the first quarter of 2022, have yet to be finalised,….” means you don’t know.
I am definite, yes. What you are suggesting is stupid. You are as usual getting annoyed about something that is not going to happen.
Do you know the difference between a suggestion and a question?
Obviously not – now, that’s stupid. Toddle along.
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/c8f3f-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-thursday-1-july/
I love Dry January.
All the Christmas jumper brigade have fupped off for another year.
All the plain wives have enjoyed their annual spin to the boozer.
Job done.
Just me and the other regulars back for another 12 months of normal service being resumed and footy commentary back to its proper volume level on the telly.
Yes, I know there’s Nollaig na mBan still to come on Thursday but that’s almost like a cabaret evening in my local.
Not long to Paddy’s Day now.
Get in.
Happy New Year!
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html
Covid has now thankfully become an endemic disease in NY/States,its just part of everyday life.This final surge has a humber of silver linnings,increased immunity and booster hesitancy has all but disappeared.
Omicron will still do terrible damage among the unvaccinated,maybe some hospitals overwhelmed for a few weeks,but this surge will subside,this will NOT be another year of pandemic purgatory,endemic diseases do not need to dominate life the way a pandemic does,as Uncle Joe said,we should all be looking ahead to “a summer of freedom, a summer of joy.”
Endemic diseases still require huge quantities of funding and staffing and medicine to monitor and prepare for and cope with. Covid being treated as endemic may mean normalising many of the measures people are constantly whining about now – mask wearing, social distancing, regular boosters, constantly watching out for new variants.
…is there is a correlation. btw compliance and educational levels attained and yeah income,indeed and yes i feel a lot ‘safer’ far away from Dublin,can NY and the north east states handle it as endemic,absolutely !
can Ireland,WeWork pulled from Cleary’s they were the anchor,tech bro’s are also pulling out.
anyone now can understand the math,its that simple.
….study analyzed more than 528,000 omicron cases and 573,000 delta cases from Nov. 22 through Dec. 26 in England…. found Covid vaccines reduce the risk of hospitalization from omicron across the board, though a booster dose provides the best protection…..U.K. Health Secretary Sajid Javid said the unvaccinated are eight times more likely to end up in the hospital from Covid….
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/31/omicron-hospitalization-risk-upside-vaccine-protection-good-uk-study-.html
This has to be a joke surely?
https://imgur.com/vHQuUee
If true, is absolute madness.
@SOQ It wasn’t a joke but it was thrown out & won’t be voted on.
(can’t,won’t,don’t open your links,ever.)
Sunday 30 January 1972-50 years on,looks like this may have get scaled back.
One World One Struggle.
https://bloodysunday50.com/
How convenient- it is list of bills looking to be passed from 5th January in NYS- Hitler would be proud.
Just keep playing your penny whistle there while lamenting about civil rights.
It’s an uncorroborated, unsourced image posted on a website that claims to be a list of bills. You’re acting as if it’s accurate even though you haven’t bothered to check before linking to it. Goebbels would be proud.
(what is NYS-new york senate?)
Tin Whistle?
never forget where your from,is Jan 6th not ‘your’ day now:)
….
Derry ambassadors for all things noisy, The Undertones bring their mammoth back catalogue of punk nuggets to their home audience for a special historical night, playing songs that have gone from the streets of Derry to the streets of New York and are as relevant today as they were in the 1970s.
…..
Hitler and New York-huh thats just not kosher… you mean hymie town:)
Eddie Murphy Hymie Town-for all the schmucks that evoke Hilter and false equivalency.
https://vimeo.com/139091477
@SOQ It missed this bill https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/a416 – Bear in mind the equivalent was signed into law here by Higgins, the midget fascist.
How tall are you, Chris?
These are bills A8378, A279a/S75a, A78u29/S6495, A2240/S45, A8398, A3091/A3041. A822/S931, A416- that is a total of EIGHT bills- now either they exist or they do not?
Johnny, the U.K. Health Security Agency which carried out the study referred to in the article you linked to has blatantly rigged the data in order to fit politically desirable outcomes.
NHS consultant pathologist, Dr Clare Craig links to a piece that gives a comprehensive break down of what the UKHSA have been doing:
https://twitter.com/ClareCraigPath/status/1477228326297161728
“Mistakes can be forgiven but cover ups can’t.
UKHSA now put all the risk from the first *28 days* after vaccination into the “unvaccinated” category
They’re digging a hole….
(link to article)
”
Jesus why are the articles you people link to always unreadable guff full of undigestible blocks of sarcastic rhetoric? It’s like bad YouTube translated to bad prose. I’m sorry, it’s impenetrable and dumb. For people who generate so much flannel about narratives, clarity coherence and concision are not your strong suits.
Pathetic Nigel, you can’t argue with the facts – so you decide to police the tone of the article. Laughable.
Dr Clare Craig…..NHS consultant pathologist….eh no,repeating it will not make it true.
(Clare carries out her ahem ‘research’ on her own as a individual)
‘Pathetic Nigel, you can’t argue with the facts ‘
I can’r argue with illegible.
@ Tom J I’m 5ft 11″. My slight on Higgins was due to the fact that most dictators tend to be of short stature. I’m not ‘height-est’ in normal circumstances.
He is not a dictator, he was voted in by the people. Dictators are not voted in.
You’re not tall in normal circumstances either.
I guess your drug damaged condition, prevents you from doing a simple search of her credentials.
https://www.csap.cam.ac.uk/network/claire-craig/
https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/sites/default/files/jrc-bog-cv-harvey-craig.pdf
which part ?
…In her home town of Bristol she helped launch “At-Bristol”, a Millennium Commission-funded hands-on science centre and leisure destination. …
where does it state she is a …NHS consultant pathologist…where ?
who besides herself has she worked on covid with ?
note-second link outdated in fact NOT dated,how long was she at McKinsey,same time as Donnelly:)
its like taking candy from a spoilt child,amazes me you’ve no shame,none at all,are you even Irish?
your links are garbage,just nonsense,get a job or something,responding to you is a waste everyone’s time,do you even read them?
Actually Chris that’s a different Clare Craig
My point in referring to her experience as an NHS consultant is to demonstrate that she has sound credentials. Obviously she’s not speaking on behalf of the NHS through her twitter account
Here’s one of various references to the person in question:
https://www.ncri.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/CM-Path-Update-October-2017.pdf
“Dr Clare Craig .. is the clinical lead for cancer recruitment at Genomics England and prior to this, was a consultant cytopathologist in the NHS. Clare will join the molecular diagnostics subgroup of Workstream 4
She previously given expert witness testimony to a UK government committee hearing on Covid:
https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/13346/pdf/
She’s also part of the “Health Advisory and Recovery Team” (HART) which is a group of independent experts providing analysis and critique of official Covid policies
Hmm my previous comment disappeared. I’ll try again.
Chris that’s actually a different Clare Craig.
Here’s one of various references to Dr Clare Craig (the pathologist)’s consultancy work with the NHS:
https://www.ncri.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/CM-Path-Update-October-2017.pdf
“Dr Clare Craig . is the clinical lead for cancer recruitment at Genomics England and prior to this, was a consultant cytopathologist in the NHS…”
Obviously she wouldn’t be speaking on behalf of the NHS through her personal Twitter account. I made a reference to her NHS work to demonstrate her credentials
Brexit and those pesky passports again …
https://curiousmob.com/most-powerful-passports/10/
Heh,heh,heh.
…your passports blue
alas, poor England
going down the loo…
Meanwhile in Naples, Italy- as a NYE Covid restriction, the mayor banned fireworks.
The public responded with a very bright and loud FU…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_rZKI2z7J0
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/growing-research-chronicles-toll-covid-lockdowns-imposed-children