This morning.
Via BBC:
Russia has given Ukrainian forces in Mariupol a fresh ultimatum to lay down their weapons by 11:00 GMT. They’re holed up in a huge steelworks complex at the moment.
The port city is surrounded but still hasn’t fallen, and Ukraine’s foreign minister said Russia has decided to raze it to the ground.
Around 130,000 citizens have been blockaded in the besieged city for 50 days and are struggling to find food, water, and medicine, the city’s deputy mayor says.
‘Still 100,000 people left in devastated Mariupol’ (BBC)
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Ukraine’s foreign minister tells us what the Russian plans are.
Which stand-up comic wrote that script for the BBC.?
What would you do Bodger? Wave the white flag to your russian friends?
Mariupol is lost. Why die for it now? No dishonour is surrendering under such circumstances.
Sergiy Volyna (Azov Nazi) shared a new video from the besieged Mariupol Azovstal plant. He asks the world for help extracting Ukrainian soldiers and 500 wounded people, as well as 100s of civilians, to a third party state. “This could be the last appeal of our lives.”
https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1516580569785802758
In response was a tweet by a journalist called Sarah Williamson
“Just surrender and let the civilians go, you warped clown. This is obviously a hostage scenario at best.
In a war, when you are surrounded without options, you surrender. What’s with this mixing civilians and soldiers into the same deal?”
She has a point.
No doubt the cheer leaders will be saying that the civilians are not human shields, just volunteers.
They’ve long been known to use civilians as cover for their operations – using schools, hospitals and apartment blocks as bases, and refusing to let civilians evacuate the cities because their presence means the Russians will tread softly/softer.
Were a conventional army to do any of those things, they would be defacto warcrimes, but the humble paramilitary Azov…
‘They’ve long been known to use civilians as cover for their operations’
Or to put it another way, the Ukrainian army has to operate in civilian areas, because nearly all of Ukraine is a civilian area that has been attacked by the Russians.
Of course if the Ukranian army would do the decent thing and just stay in their barracks, this would all have been avoided.
Mind you, the next time some clown talks about the Palestinians in Gaza operating in civilian areas I’ll think of your very clever response – it’s hard to think of a comeback against it, as most of every country are civilian areas.
‘the decent thing’
What’s decent about an invasion by an authoritarian power bent on ethnic cleansing?
‘ I’ll think of your very clever response’
Please do, it’s sickening to hear people complain about defenders using ‘civilian shields’ when armies go into civilian areas.
Someone is unable to recognise sarcasm …
As is Moscow, Nigel, a city of over 12 million which Russia could’ve chosen to leave exposed to nuclear weapons, under the control of the most violent nation on the planet, yet accessible to Nazi fanatics & ten minutes flying time away.
Russia, while making an exception for Mariupol, as I said they would & for obvious reasons, have not tried to take cities or even territory. The veracity of their stated aim has become undeniable & they are now surrounding the massed invasion force, which it seems was about to descend on Donbas. Hopefully, despite the presence of Nazis, deliberately distributed among the ordinary troops & conscripts, the Ukrainian army’s Soviet-trained generals will now do the right thing.
Yeah, right on, Queenie
Like why didn’t those civilians avail of one of the many benevolent corridors for evacuation that the kindly Russians laid out for them?
It’s not like they were being shelled from afar or tortured, raped and executed from up close now, it it? har de har, like
Oh hello London
But there is no corridor in this case? It would be a very defined protocol of surrender flag use going back to the first world war.
Except the Nazis- and I assume the clown puppet and his NATO masters, INCLUDING Britain, are breeching the fourth Geneva convention by using civilians in this manner.
As pointed out by Sarah Williamson above, there is no options when surrounded. I wonder what tales these civilians would have to tell mind.
“But there is no corridor in this case?”
Are you asking? Your posts make less and less sense.
“It would be a very defined protocol of surrender flag use going back to the first world war.”
There are many protocols of war – none of which the Russian thugforce is adhering to.
“Except the Nazis”
Utter yawn at this stage. You are a truly moronic specimen.
“using civilians in this manner”
Using civilians in what MANNER? I assume you’re asserting that the civilians are being held against their will – yes? What evidence do you have of this? I would be more inclined to assume that the civilians, having heard what happens to civilians who fall into Russian hands, do not want to surrender.
“there is no options when surrounded”
There is only one option when surrendering means rape, torture and murder
1. There is no corridor- there is nowhere to go.
2. The civilians ARE being used bargaining chips, which breeches the Geneva convention- otherwise they would be treated as a separate group.
3. The steel plant is surrounded and there is no other option but to surrender.
Oh and if you are going to continue with this ill mannered and rude tone then don’t bother answering.
My rude tone or your utter stupidity? Can we have a vote as to which is more offensive?
‘It would be a very defined protocol of surrender flag use going back to the first world war.’
The propensity of the Russians not to respect such things seems to have been well established.
‘there is no options when surrounded’
This war was suppose to be over in three days. The Ukrainians haven’t held off one of the most powerful military forces in the world for this long by surrendering.
It is not the Russians who are ignoring the Geneva convention- all civilians have a right to safe passage out of that site.
They should not be held there against their will, but it is pretty obvious that they are.
If they can’t leave because the Russians won’t let them, it’s by definition the Russian’s fault. If the Ukrainian forces won’t let them leave, it’s presumably to stop them from being massacred. What use are human shields against an enemy that doesn’t care about civilian casualties?
They shouldn’t be besieged in their homes against their will by an invading army, but it is pretty obvious they are.
“it is pretty obvious that they are”
The problem here is that you put too much (way, way, way too much) store in your own critical faculties and abilities. You’re a lot stupider than you realise.
The Russians have already accepted surrendered Ukrainian soldiers without issue. There was a deadline, there is a deadline and there probably will be another deadline for anyone, including civilians, who wish to surrender.
The idea that civilians would voluntarily remain in such a place, with the certainty of death, makes no sense.
Even most of the captive Ukrainian army is probably wondering what is the point, when losing their lives is not going to change anything.
The Azov animals however are a different breed- and it would not be beyond them to use the rest as human shields.
Seems to me you’re trying to rule out the possibility that the Ukrainians, soldiers and civilians, might be courageous and stubborn and have no reason to trust the Russians, that the only reason to keep fighting is Azov fanatcism, which you’ve repeatedly mythologised. That sounds like pure Russian propaganda. It’s not the firtst time a besieged city has held out beyond all hope.
Fact is in Mariupol is full of the far right fighters azov brigades and worse and the mercenaries and zelensky will never agree that the human shields are given safe passage
It’s going to be a blood bath
In fact as soon as Russia finishes up and returns to its borders the better
It’s like Gaza and Aleppo there with a touch of grozney
Some leader zelensky
Looking at that video the other day showed how unhinged he is
Maybe too much coke
‘Fact is*’
*Not actually facts.
‘No doubt the cheer leaders will be saying that the civilians are not human shields, just volunteers.’
They’re victims of an invading army.
Nazi biolab workers!!!
It’s like Gaza
@niggle
Yes, they are the victims of an invading army. You are correct here – but under these circumstances, what are the available options?
And of those few options, what would your advice be?
I am woefully unqualified in every possible way to offer advice to peple in that position. All I can offer is the benefit of the doubt, and respect for their courage.
Whose courage?
or maybe better still,
What courage?
The courage of the people fighting and enduring an invasion by a vastly superior military power?
Just curious to know if I’m on note here –
Are we supposed to be looking at the pinky bits “Under Russian Military Control” and cheering their liberation or feeling sad that more of Ukraine isn’t coloured pink?
Just curious to know. Do the pinky bits go with kinky boots?
Best pose that one to SOQ being a you-know-what
Surrender to the Russian army is suicide. We have all seen what they did to civilians in the towns around Kiev. remember the drone video where they executed a man with his hands above his head, then executed his wife?
no no no! NATO are the problem, Russia are just protecting themselves.
Yes and we also seen what the Azov Nazis done to civilians all over the place.
What is the alternative?
Just sit waiting to die because the coke head of Kiev says so?
And what about the civilians- do they not have rights?
If they were more scared of the Azovs than the Russians they’d have already surrendered. And yes, Zelensky is their leader, as Putin is the leader of the Russians. That you blame him rather than Putin for their plight is ceontemptible.
Ah Nigey, come’on. Be on the right side of history or hop into bed with Puppet leaders, nazi’s & and foolish mercenaries encouraged by the likes of Liz Truss. Ask yourself how have you ended up standing with the likes of Biden ,Johnston, Trudeau.
why does he have to stand with Biden (ineffective), Johnson (corrupt) and Trudeau (???) in order to stand against Putin? Sprinkle a bit of nuance on your life.
People telling me I was putting myself on the same side as the Taliban or Saddam Hussein didn’t stop me opposing the invasions of Afghanistan or Iraq, similarly specious war-justifications won’t work now, either.
…but…but…you kept bombing them when sleepy Joe and O’Bama took over the box…
Me? I bombed nobody, supported no bombings, nor did I support any evil murdering dictators like Assad.
Actually we were told by Ukraine
And noting has been independently analysed
And of course all Russian media is banned so all we have is one side of the story
Weird that you think you’ll get the truth from Russian media.
He didn’t say that, you are twisting his words. He simply said that one side of the equation is censored, making it more difficult to get a clear view of what is going on.
If you know of any completely neutral sources of information, I’d be glad to view them – but in the meantime I will take the Western view of things (which ‘neutral’ Ireland – covered from top to bottom with Ukranian flags and propaganda – swallows hook line and sinker) with a few grains of salt.
Read Russian media to get some of their top arguments for ethnically cleansing Ukraine.
You seem to have reading difficulties.
I asked for NEUTRAL sources. Not propaganda sources – from whatever side.
Things aren’t black and white you know – and if you think that Western sources are propaganda-free, you need your head examined.
As for ethnic cleansing, the West supports it in a great many places.
Australa has been ethnically-cleansed; as have New Zealand, Canada and the US.
Palestine has also largely been ethnically cleansed, alongside northern Cyprus.
Also the highlands of Scotland.
The regimes in all those places are Western, pro-NATO.
So please don’t come on here crying about genocide, as the West are the greatest practitioners of the art over the past 250 years; alongside Russia, of course, particularly in the mid-19th century and post WW II.
You can hate all those genocides AND hate what Russia is trying to do. In fact you should.
They’ve been given an extension to surrender. 2pm Moscow time
noon GMT
“Via BBC” ‘nuf said.
Tick tock Cloutier..
Looking forward to the retractions..
What retractions? Do you think all the bloodshed and suffering inflicted by the Russians will be justified if this guy turns out to be there?
LOLS you utter moron – is there anything on Facebook or TikTok that won’t swallow hook line and sinker. You’re either mentally ill or an utter idiot. Let’s all wait for Roger to appear then, shall we? Hahahaha you complete berk.
How come none of you clowns can never answer as to whether it is acceptable for a bigger country to invade a sovereign nation. How about when Hiltler invaded Poland, England invaded Ireland. Someone invades your house, and kills your family?
they don’t see it in those terms. They’re not people being murdered, just numbers. I suppose they see it like supporting one football team over another. They align more with Putin’s motives and actions in this case so side with him.
Tick tock..
Cloutier + NATO twits awaiting plank walk..
Awaiting retractions..
Great!
And is this like the Qanon storm that’s coming (just not quite yet)? Defined or determined timeframe? And do we need actual proof – like actual verified positive identification or capture-parade – or just a Kremlin statement? And what happens then when the real Cloutier appears on mainstream TV? Do we dismiss that as a FX ruse? So many questions for the Qanon Edgelord.
Capturing this guy has become the main objective of the Russian invasion, apparently.