This afternoon.
To the bunkers.
The Commission on the Defence Forces report into the ‘capabilities, structures and staffing of the Defence Forces’ has been published.
Via RTÉ News:
‘Maintaining the status quo on its current level would leave the Defence Forces unable to conduct a meaningful defence of the State against acts of aggression from conventional military forces
The second level would bring “enhanced capability”, which would allow for the acquisition of radar and coastal radar systems.
It would also strengthen military intelligence and cyber defence, along with an upgrade of the naval fleet.
The third and most radical level of ambition, would give Ireland the military capabilities of similarly sized countries in the EU and would require an increased budget of 2.5 to three times the size.
It would see the Defence Forces naval vessels increase from nine to at least 12, and the acquisition of a squadron of combat aircraft.
Current Defence Forces’ capabilities leaves State without credible protection – report (RTE)
Does the Irish army have a stated mission goal ?
If we want it to defend our shores then investment will apparently be required but, let’s be honest, we’ll just surrender to any would be invader and win them over with scoops.
Years ago I remember two fellas in the old college bar in UCG getting into a very involved debate about what would happen if Ireland was invaded. I was earwigging as I sipped my discounted just-past-its-sell-by-date can of Tennents as it was hugely entertaining. At the heel of the reel one conceded that we’d probably be better off after the inevitable aggressor’s victory as we’d be rebuilt to a state better than before under the terms of some Marshall type plan (this was the early 90s).
Quick as you like the other fellow, dead serious remarked “yeah but knowing our luck we’d probably win.”
:)
Actually do we need the defence forces?.in reality not what it is in its present form.
A mysoganistic outdated waste of money
Just disband them and combine them with the police.
They can be our ERU for the police as the gardai are frankly inept and it’s scary the thought of them being armed ,more concerned in collecting fines for road offences than doing their job policing the streets
Seems they cannot even solve crimes without dash cam footage.
The navy and so called Air Force could be combined with the coast guard patrolling our waters and stopping the theft of our fish and drug smuggling.
If money is thrown at this horrendous institution that is a hotbed of women abuse,and god knows what we might as well be pouring €500 million down the pan
As for coveney seriously 6 months to compile a reply on this report.
He is either incompetent or the problem is so bad it’s out of control .
Tripling the defense forces budget budget would cost us €1.6bn a year. I personally would far rather we spend that €1.6bn on hospitals and schools, something we’ll actually get a benefit from as a society, rather than fighter jets.
Ireland isn’t going to be invaded by anyone, we have far more pressing needs for our limited government revenues than shockingly expensive military toys.
How would throwing any more money at hospitals benefit anything?
If theres one thing the health service in this country is short of, it isnt money. We have criminal wastage in the health service, there are a few financial black holes in there. A few more billions wont achieve anything.
We could hire and pay 20,000+ extra nurses with that €1.6billion a year.
I’m fairly sure having 20,000 additional nurses in the country would be of more benefit to the people of Ireland than a squadron of fighter jets.
We already have one of the higher numbers of nurses per capita in our health system IIRC
So lack of nurses is not one of the big issues here.
9th highest health spend (public + private) in the OECD, 5th highest nurses per capita
16th in doctors
https://data.oecd.org/healthres/nurses.htm
Too many nurses, not enough doctors, not enough beds, and an organisational and financial black hole.
So just to be clear – is your position that Ireland needs fighter jets more than it needs tens of thousands more doctors, nurses or teachers? That the fighter jets are a better use of our limited resources?
I just looked at TJ’s numbers, and broadened my viewing to include nos of doctors, pharma spending and total budget per capita.
We’ve around 2 more nurses per thousand inhabitants than France, but all the other figures are very similar to the French figures. Which leads me to the question: what the f are the French doing right that we aren’t?
The health service already gets billions every year…the problem is urine poor management.
Fighter jets? Come on ,a country our size ,a population the size of Manchester.
Our taxes could not afford a government jet let alone a WW1 stopworth camel
And are we expected to fund pilots trained to operate them that will feck off and get a job in Ryan air after they got trained at our expense.
If they cannot retain staff there is no point in investing our money in the defence forces .
“Defence Forces unable to conduct a meaningful defence of the State against acts of aggression from conventional military forces”
There are very few countries that could effectively mount an attack on Ireland using conventional military forces. This would need air support. So either close enough to fly here (UK, France) or have aircraft carriers (United States, France, Japan, China, Italy, United Kingdom, India, Russia, Spain)
We don’t, nor ever will, have the resources to be able to resist the armies of any of those countries.
Ukraine doesnt have the resources to resist the army of Russia – however with the arms etc theyve gotten, they could make the russians lose enough personnel to make it not worth doing.
Ireland needs defence forces as a deterrent. Thats how most modern armies work too, aside from the “major” powers, its all about non-nuclear deterrence.
Couldn’t we just put our trust in judo?
we have an in-built deterrent; we all hate each other. we’re only here because we want all want to be the last one left after everyone else has fukd off or died.
we’re sort of uninvadable, really..
Well poo, can’t argue with that.
Island life. The best deterrent of them all.
In all honesty as much as our government goes on about the brits ,if someone wanted to make any attack the target would be the UK and within a minute the brits would scramble what’s needed to repel an attack not because they want to defend Ireland but if that happened it would be a threat to British sovereignty
We are too near the UK for them not to act.
Anyway we are part of the EU and part of the deal is the EU must defend us .if not all this rhetoric about Ukraine which is not a member is just guff.
All this talk is guff.
In reality being on the UN Security Council has filled coveney with delusions of grandeur .
We do not need an army airforce or navy we need a proper police force to protect our people from criminals a coast guard and a properly funded air ambulance
We do not even need a government jet They can all travel on airlines
“Anyway we are part of the EU and part of the deal is the EU must defend us ”
Doesn’t that works both ways. If “the EU must defend us” are we not obliged to defend the EU?
Coveney trying to create a big project that he can succeed at to take attention away from his other recent , and not so recent, failings.
…Alan Shatter…
Has Ireland ever had a military able to conduct a meaningful defence of the State against acts of aggression from conventional military forces?
Why the obsession all of a sudden, Simon Coveney?
Defend Ireland’s neutrality if anything and stay out of European defense projects, like sending Irish soldiers to Mali on a French sponsored, post-colonial occupation.
If the EU is spending billions in supplying Ukraine with arms soldiers etc which is not in the EU and of course we contribute then they will spend the money and act accordingly if we are threatened
So why do we need an army or a minister of defence ?
Could we lease instead of buy a battleship? Could we lease instead of buy a fighter jet capable of shooting down stray North Korean rockets?
If Ireland really wanted to defend itself, it could teach a true history of Irish oppression in the schools, with a distinct nationalist flavour.
Bring in a 12 month national service to each graduating Irish person to teach them guerrilla warfare and how to shoot.
Then scatter the arms around the country in small govt barracks and police stations under lock and key, national scattered cells of would be resistance would meet any fool coming in this direction as an invader.
Cost, if we recycled the weapons from the massive surplus swilling around the planet, minimal.
Clearly my idea is mad, as the crooks in government cannot milk of Billions in kick backs, cronyism and grift.
The VC bloodied the nose of the US in Vietnam with minimal resources.
The IRA could possibly count on 2000 men and women to shoulder a weapon at the height of the troubles and they could not be beaten by an army with significantly more resources.
30k or 40k armed and trained young patriots would secure this Island forever, plus the old boys that would of course hear the call.
Less is more, stop digging the debt hole on another boondoggle.
National debt is North of 50k per person, well past time for them to cop on.
https://commodity.com/data/ireland/debt-clock/
The IRA had 2,000 volunteers for the armed struggle ?
Have you gone soft in the head ?
200 at most.
And half of them were informants.
The rest drug dealers.
Talk about revisionism.
We are members of the EU so considering the EU is sending arms and NATO member states are sending thousands of troops to a non EU and NATO state Ireland now a member of the security council and a member of the EU qualify for the billions being sent off to Ukraine for their security a non EU country
So there is no need for €500 million of taxpayers money being spent on frankly something that is not strong enough to resist invasion .
We might as well join NATO now and have 100 thousand plus NATO troops stationed in kinnegad or Cavan
We could have campuses and nukes and all sort of toys and machines that go ping
We could put little Kim to shame letting little Simon press who arrays of buttons
Jesus patriots.
We are in the EU and if we had patriots here I doubt our administration would of been allowed to put our nation into the hands of the troika post crash and join an empire that has its laws supersede our constitution
At times I think what was the point ?,and it seems history is repeating its self with absentee landlords evictions rent rises .
All that died from the war of independence then a civil war ,the troubles
And all for this
Our own people homeless fuel poverty and a government in the pocket of banks powerless to stop us being fleeced by banks to double the rates our other member states pay
Ah good stuff TinPun Terry, Charger Salmons/Admiral Nelson et al.
Such words of wisdom old sport.