Tag Archives: Abortion

Referring to Youth Defence’s recent ad blitz.,

ShestheCatsmother writes:

I know I shouldn’t comment on all this tripe, get involved in the arguments, but I need to state this:

I have had 3 terminations; they have not scarred me or ruined my life. I also have carried pregnancies to full term; and i am raising these children.

I think that due to lack of option, and the economic costs involved, women in economically disadvantaged circumstances are in danger of having no other option but to carry through a pregnancy that will disfigure their bodies, and severely impact their mental health and wellbeing for the rest of their lives.

I do not, and never will regret my terminations; I couldn’t have raised those children, and the children I already had would have suffered on many levels through my pregnancies and subsequent baby/toddler stage. The pregnancy itself was the biggest problem; the exhaustion, the physical effect on movement etc.

A tiger will abandon her cubs when there is no food, and conceive again next season. A hamster will eat her babies if her cage is too small. A sow likewise. If a woman finds herself pregnant despite her best efforts, and does not want to continue the pregnancy, this is her choice.

If these people with control issues really do not want women to be having abortions , perhaps they should be out there working to improve the conditions facing mothers; I for one, as a single parent, have never met any of these pro-lifers in any organisations that try to help disadvantaged families.

With 7bn+ humans on an overcrowded planet facing unprecedented climate change, we really really need to start controlling our population. As the late, great Bill Hicks said ‘Hows about having a neat world for kids to come to…?’

Previously: Never Again

Pic by Bingo Slimz

You may have heard Fine Gael TD James Bannon‘s Dail speech last night.

Here’s a flava:

One could perhaps call the revelations about Savita’s death coincidental, but the resultant media outbursts and overwrought reactions seem too opportunistic for that. From being a weapon to try to force the Government’s hand, I hope that calm will prevail and that this report will be assessed and viewed in an independent light. However, I am anxious that any legislation should not be rushed through in a knee-jerk reaction to the report, the death of Savita and the other matters that are impacting on it.

Having had major reservations about the timing of the news of Savita’s death, the publication of which came as a shock and surprise to her family, the fact that there is now a question mark over some of the reporting of the facts of the case only serves to add credence to the opportunism of the exposure of this tragic death. I am shocked to read that the sequence of events may have been at least muddled but, at worst, distorted. That what was reported or not reported, whatever way one looks at it, prompted a recent independent inquiry into the death of Savita, was inexcusable.

…We have come a long way in this country since the days when a husband would be told in the same breath that his wife had died and that he had a beautiful baby girl or boy. The reality was often indescribably tragic. A family might already consist of six or more children who would be left without a mother and a grieving husband without a wife. Sense has prevailed and directed our actions. I hope that will continue to be the case.

Dail debate: Expert Group (Oireachtas.ie)

LB writes:

Breathtaking. I had to remind myself this isn’t Ireland of the 1950s. He explicitly implies that the exposure of Savita’s death was “opportunistic”. Maybe it’s just the way he was ‘braw hup”. He also expresses his admiration for Hillary Clinton in his 2011 campaign video. Now that’s just a tiny bit ironic.

Not them.

Abortion, silly.

Response by the Irish Catholic Bishops’ Conference to the Report of the Expert Group on the Judgement in A,B and C v Ireland

A society that believes the right to life is the most fundamental of all rights cannot ignore the fact that abortion is first and foremost a moral issue.

As a society we have a particular responsibility to ensure this right is upheld on behalf of those who are defenceless, voiceless or vulnerable. This includes our duty as a society to defend and promote the equal right to life of a pregnant mother and the innocent and defenceless child in her womb when the life of either of these persons is at risk.

By virtue of their common humanity the life of a mother and her unborn baby are both sacred. They have an equal right to life. The Catholic Church has never taught that the life of a child in the womb should be preferred to that of a mother. Where a seriously ill pregnant woman needs medical treatment which may put the life of her baby at risk, such treatments are morally permissible provided every effort has been made to save the life of both the mother and her baby.

Abortion, understood as the direct and intentional destruction of an unborn baby, is gravely immoral in all circumstances. This is different from medical treatments which do not directly and intentionally seek to end the life of the unborn baby.

Current law and medical guidelines in Ireland allow nurses and doctors in Irish hospitals to apply this vital distinction in practice. This has been an important factor in ensuring that Irish hospitals are among the safest and best in the world in terms of medical care for both a mother and her unborn baby during pregnancy. As a country this is something we should cherish, promote and protect.

The Report of the Expert Group on the Judgement in A, B and C v Ireland has put forward options that could end the practice of making this vital ethical distinction in Irish hospitals.

Of the four options presented by the Report, three involve abortion – the direct and intentional killing of an unborn child. This can never be morally justified. The judgement of the European Court of Human Rights does not oblige the Irish Government to legislate for abortion.

Other aspects of the Report also give rise to concerns. These include, but are not limited to the fact that:

The judgement of the European Court of Human Rights permits options on this matter of fundamental moral, social and constitutional importance that are not offered by this Report.

This includes the option of introducing a constitutional prohibition on abortion or another form of constitutional amendment to reverse the ‘X-case’ judgement.
The Report provides no ethical analysis of the options available, even though this is first and foremost a moral issue and consideration of the ethical dimension was included in the Terms of Reference.
The Report takes no account of the risks involved in trying to legislate for so-called ‘limited abortion’ within the context of the ‘X-case’ judgement.

The ‘X-case’ judgement includes the threat of suicide as grounds for an abortion. International experience shows that allowing abortion on the grounds of mental health effectively opens the floodgates for abortion.

The Report also identifies Guidelines as an option. It notes that Guidelines can help to ensure consistency in the delivery of medical treatment. If Guidelines can provide greater clarity as to when life-saving treatment may be provided to a pregnant mother or her unborn child within the existing legislative framework, and where the direct and intentional killing of either person continues to be excluded, then such ethically sound Guidelines may offer a way forward.

A matter of this importance deserves sufficient time for a calm, rational and informed debate to take place before any decision about the options offered by the Expert Group Report are taken.

All involved, especially public representatives, must consider the profound moral questions that arise in responding to this Report. Abortion is gravely immoral in all circumstances, no matter how ‘limited’ access to abortion may be.

Literally no change there then.

Via CatholicBishops.ie

(Sasko Lazarov/Photocall Ireland)

More scenes from the Pro-life vigil on Kildare Street, Dublin, this evening.

Foetal Attraction At The Dail (Rabble.ie)

Anti-Abortion Vigil Held In Dublin (Aine McMahon, Irish Times)

15 Per Cent?

Earlier: Christ

Pictures: 1-3 via Rabble.ie, 3-6 (Wanderley Massafelli/Photocall Ireland)

Meanwhile: how many attended tonight’s vigil?

The Pro-Life campaign say 10,000.

The guards say 2,000 max.

Thankfully, someone literally did a head count.

Counting Heads – 1000+ Attend ‘Pro-Life’ Rally (WorkersSolidarityMovement)

You may recall yesterday’s thoughtful response from Labour TD Sean Kenny explaining why he voted against Clare Daly’s ‘Savita’s Law’ bill to a constituent.

The following is, reportedly, a brief exchange between a mother-of-two from Clare and her local Labour TD Michael McNamara, (above left with Ivana Bacik and Eamon Gilmore), posted on the MagicMum website.

..last night Micheal you certainly didn’t represent me. It is a travesty that you and others like you have such blatant disregard for the health and lives of the women of this country and county. As a mother of two daughters your actions last night made me cry. I hope I and any future partners they may have never have to go through what Praveen Halappanavar and many others (maybe not with such dire consequences, luckily) like him went through
Consider my vote gone.
Sincerely yours,
xxxx

Dear Ms ***,

Did you even read or listen to the Minister’s speech wherein he promised legislation and provided a timeframe?
If not, I’d suggest you do so: Justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/SP12000333
Isn’t there a certain irony that instead you resorted to a Youth Defence strategy?

Best regards,
Michael

I Expressed My Dissatisfaction At Michael McNamara: This Is His Response (MagicMum)

(Mark Stedman/Photocall Ireland)

Sean Kenny, Labour TD for Dublin North East.

Lisa Powell writes;

I re-e-mailed my TDs re: legislation this morning, this was one response:

 

Hello Lisa,

You might be aware that Labour TDs including myself, did not support Clare Daly’s billon the X case last night. As your TD, I want to explain why I voted No.

In order to succeed in getting legislation for the X case, I, as a legislator, have to work with the reality of the political games that are being played in order to get X case legislation passed into law.

Fine Gael, Labour’s coalition partners would not support Clare Daly’s bill. I believe that Labour Ministers suggested to them that they should support it. But they did not wish to do so – they want to wait to debate the Expert Group Report which has been published recently. This is because Fine Gael and Labour agreed on the Expert Group process a year ago.

Fine Gael now want to see that through. It is clear on reading the Expert Group
report that the Expert Group believes legislation for the X case and regulations for doctors, is the way forward on this matter.

Fine Gael are a very conservative political party. They do not really want legislation. Labour will have to force them to support legislation.

It is very, very difficult getting them to move on this – but it is working previously, for example, Enda Kenny has said he will not be rushed. But earlier this week he said he would move swiftly.

The really conservative Fine Gael TDs and Ministers are now speaking out in the media about their opposition. They are doing that because they know that Labour is influencing Fine Gael and that they will have to support legislation. They are trying to re-assure their anti-choice voters.

All of that going on in Fine Gael is down to Labour Party TDs and Ministers pushing Fine Gael on this.

As part of that, if Labour, their coalition partner, were to antagonise Fine Gael by supporting Clare Daly’s Bill and breaking with the Expert Group route, Fine Gael will not trust Labour and then there never will be any legislation because Fine Gael will not support it.

I also would like you to consider the way in which Dáil seats are divided up in this Dáil. Each seat in the Dáil is worth one vote.

Labour have 37 seats in the Dáil.
Fine Gael have 74 seats in the Dáil.

Fianna Fáil have 19 seats.
Sinn Féin have 14 seats.
Independents have 20 seats.
ULA have 4 seats.
The Ceann Comhairle has one vote – this vote is cast only in the event
of a tie.
If Fine Gael seats (ie, votes) are left out of the equation, there are not enough TDs who will support legislating for the X case. A number of the FF and Independent TDs are very pro-life – some will vote against legislating and others will simply not show up to vote at all.

Just 27 votes supported Clare Daly’s Bill last night. Even if all the Labour TDs had supported it, it still would have failed to pass.

In other words, for X case legislation to be passed without question in the Dáil, Fine Gael AND Labour are needed to support X case legislation when it comes down to a vote on in the Dáil because they have the most seats, and therefore, the most votes.

Fine Gael control Dáil Éirean and Labour supporting legislation alone will not get that legislation voted through.

Fine Gael are required.Over the next couple of weeks, there will be a debate on the Expert Group report. After that, the Government will decide what steps to take. I
am confident that there will be legislation on the X case and that it will happen within the next two or three months.

Yours sincerely,

Sean Kenny TD

Meanwhile: Daly May Table Third Bill (Irish Times)