Tag Archives: Michael Noonan

Screen Shot 2016-02-23 at 17.00.58

Screen-Shot-2016-02-16-at-14.01.13-1

Yesterday’s Irish Examiner showing the letter sent by the foster father of Grace to the then Minister for Health Michael Noonan, above, in August 1996

You may recall the story of Grace, the mute child – now a woman in her 40s – who remained in a foster home with an abusive family in the south east of Ireland for more than a decade after other children had been removed.

The other children were taken out of the home in 1995, after concerns were raised with the then Southern Health Board in 1992.

Yesterday’s Irish Examiner reported how – after the health board initially decided that Grace be removed – Grace’s foster family appealed against this decision but lost.

Following that, the foster father, in 1996, sent a letter lobbying the Minster for Health Michael Noonan to allow Grace stay in the home.

It’s unclear what exactly happened after this letter was sent but Grace did stay at the home for another 13 years.

Daniel McConnell, of the Irish Examiner, spoke with Matt Cooper on Today FM yesterday evening to explain the significance of the letter.

He said:

“Whether, it seems, by accident, or inadvertently, the intervention seems to have had a chilling effect because what’s detailed in the documents is that Grace’s removal was delayed on foot of the request from the foster father. Then that removal never happened.”

“…We put a series of detailed queries through the Fine Gael press office, to him [Noonan], last [Monday] night and he said he had nothing more to add…”

Separately.

Readers may also recall the allegations made by former Fine Gael councillor and barrister Garry O’Halloran in relation to Minister Noonan.

Mr O’Halloran has claimed that, at the 1997 Fine Gael Ard Fheis in Dublin, Michael Noonan ‘ran away’ from him even though Mr Noonan was scheduled to meet with him.

Mr O’Halloran wanted to speak with Mr Noonan – not about Grace – but about the late Fr Jim Grennan, who had abused several children in Monageer, Co. Wexford, the diocese of Ferns. One of Fr Grennan’s victims was with Mr O’Halloran at the Ard Fheis.

At this point, in 1997, Fr Grennan was already dead, having died in 1994.

Mr O’Halloran, who was chairman of the then South Eastern Health Board, wished to speak with Minister Noonan to request that he order an inquiry into the health board’s response to abuse allegations made by 10 children against Fr Grennan back in 1988.

Mr O’Halloran explained:

“The allegations were raised in 1988 and they were validated immediately. There was a local teacher, a local social worker and a local guard who all did a very good job. But after that, a superintendant came along and destroyed the file and the guards did nothing, the health board did nothing.”

He [Grennan] went on to carry out devastating rapes after that, with devastating consequences.”

Mr O’Halloran was prompted to lobby Mr Noonan in 1997 – three years after Fr Grennan died – because Mr O’Halloran had learned that one of Fr Grennan’s victims had been gravely abused for several years, on a regular basis, after 1988.

The day after Fr Grennan died, on May 9, 1994, aged 61, a child of 13 took an overdose of medication and was admitted to hospital. On May 30, the child told their mother they had been molested by Fr Grennan, in the months prior to Fr Grennan’s death.

Mr O’Halloran explained:

I was asking questions. I was in the health board and everything was being denied. The acceptance of any clerical child abuse was denied. When we got the thumbs down from the authorities, there was only three of us working on it at this stage – Billy Moroney, a farmer from New Ross, journalist Veronica Guerin, and myself.”

“We worked closely together. But Billy and myself set up a group called Survivors and we used to meet every month  in Waterford and, very quickly, we had people coming and all the situations were the same. All the victims had raised a complaint about being raped and abused and they were all ignored.

The eventual Ferns Report, which was published in 2005 and looked at 100 allegations of child sexual abuse made between 1966 and 2005 against 21 priests in the Diocese of Ferns, confirmed all of Mr O’Halloran claims and those of Fr Grennan’s victims.

In light of the findings of the Ferns Report, readers may wish to read Mr O’Halloran’s recollections of the Ard Fheis. He said:

“[Noonan] kept us waiting all night, no sign of him. Eventually I spotted him leaving the podium and he was heading for the door and, when I followed him, he sprinted as fast as he could and when I reached the door he was already in his car and there was black smoke whirring up into my face, from the wheels spinning. And Phil Hogan was standing alongside me and Phil said to me, ‘you relax, the Minister for Children [Austin Currie] is meeting your deputation, everything will be fine.‘”

“So we met him [Currie] and, after about half an hour, he said, ‘right you have your inquiry’. So that was fine. I contacted his secretary on the Monday morning to progress the matter and she said, ‘hang on a minute’. And then she came back and said, ‘No there isn’t any inquiry’.”

“And I said, ‘Oh yes there is, we met the [junior] minister on Saturday night, he said we have our inquiry.’ And she said, ‘oh no he [Currie] didn’t. What he told you was that he would inquire into it and, having inquired, there’s no substance to your claims and allegations’.

Last Saturday, Mr Currie denied this was the case, telling the Irish Times:

“I said I would inquire into their allegations when I got back to the department on Monday. The next thing I heard in the press I had promised an inquiry. I had not. I know I brought that family’s concerns to the officials in the department.”

So what does Monageer have to do with Grace?

It should be explained that Mr O’Halloran came forward to recall his non-meeting with Minister Noonan at the Ard Fheis in 1997 – after he heard Minister Noonan give an interview with Richard Crowley on RTÉ Radio One on Thursday, February 4.

During that interview Minister Noonan was briefly asked about the letters he received about Grace.

Mr O’Halloran knew nothing of Grace when he heard the interview – but it jogged his memory in relation to Fr Grennan. Mr O’Halloran also felt it was important to explain that the case of Grace wasn’t an isolated incident.

Ever since his allegations about the Ard Fheis were published, many people have contacted Mr O’Halloran about Grace.

Further to this, he has written to both the Garda Commissioner Noirin O’Sullivan and Minister Noonan.

He has asked Ms O’Sullivan to investigate Minister Noonan’s conduct – for his time as Minister for Health from 1994 to 1997.

In addition, he’s asked Minister Noonan to resign.

Mr O’Halloran, a barrister, explained his reasons for this:

“In 1995, having received repeated evidence of complaints of child sex abuse in the particular foster care facility, it was decided to place no further children in that facility and to remove Grace forthwith. The foster parents had an entitlement to appeal that decision and they did appeal it.”

“The appeal committee accepted that the original decision was a proper decision and that it was in the best interest of the child that she be removed forthwith from that facility. In response to that the foster father wrote directly to the minister stating that they did not accept those decision and hence they were putting in a further appeal to him.”

“Notwithstanding the fact that he had no statutory function in the matter, he passed the matter on to his officials and his junior minister. He was notified by the health board, the matter was governed by Section 43 of the Childcare Act, which meant that if there was any ongoing concerns that a judge of the District Court should make the decision on the basis of what was in the best interest of the child.”

Instead of the matter going to a judge, it ended up with a further appeal committee – the composition of which remains unknown to this day – deciding that the child be left at this foster care facility, and there she remained for a further 13 years until a social worker recently appointed to her case, brought the matter to attention.”

“As far as I’m concerned [Minister Noonan] is a man that shouldn’t be holding high public office and he merits investigation.”

Listen back to Mr McConnell’s interview in full here

Letter shows ‘Grace’ remained in home after foster father lobbied Michael Noonan (Daniel McConnell and Fiachra Ó Cionnaith, Irish Examiner)

Austin Currie drawn into case of girl at ‘foster’ home (Kitty Holland, Irish Times)

Irish Examiner/Rollingnews

Screen Shot 2016-02-22 at 09.43.35 Screen Shot 2016-02-22 at 09.43.43 Screen Shot 2016-02-22 at 09.43.52 Screen Shot 2016-02-22 at 09.44.01

A letter sent from former IBRC chairman Alan Dukes to Finance Minister Michael Noonan on February 14, 2013 

You may recall how Mr Justice Brian Cregan was appointed to carry out a Commission of Investigation into IBRC on June 16, 2015.

One of the terms of reference is “whether the Minister for Finance or his Department was kept informed where appropriate in respect of the transactions concerned, and whether he, or officials on his behalf, took appropriate steps in respect of the information provided to them.”

The commission’s establishment followed Social Democrat TD Catherine Murphy asking Finance Minister Michael Noonan questions about the sale of Siteserv to a company owned by Denis O’Brien.

Further to this.

The former chairman of IBRC Alan Dukes sent a letter to Finance Minister Michael Noonan on February 14, 2013 – a week after IBRC went into liquidation.

This letter was obtained from the Department of Finance by Ms Murphy, following a Freedom of Information request.

Readers will note there were three sentences redacted in the letter of February 14, 2013.

Following an appeal to the Information Commissioner, the commissioner annulled the decision of the department to redact these sentences.

It found the manner in which the Department had processed the request “most unsatisfactory” and not in keeping with the statutory provisions of the Freedom of Information Act.

Further to this, Justine McCarthy, in yesterday’s Sunday Times, reported:

The Sunday Times has established that the three missing sentences from Dukes’s letter are:

“1. The Department of Finance has at all times been provided with all papers presented to the board;

2. The Department of Finance has been entitled to have an observer at every meeting of the board;

3. The minutes of all committee meetings were systematically provided to the Department of Finance.”

…The ruling by Stephen Rafferty, an investigator in the information commissioner’s office, was made on February 8 but only made public last Thursday. The department has until March 1 to lodge an appeal to the High Court.

…When told what the redacted portion of Dukes’s letter says, Murphy replied: “It’s strange the department would have redacted that. It obviously gives a clue about something. There seems to be a surprisingly small amount of information [available] about the relationship between the department and the bank, given how bad we know that relationship was.

The information commissioner was quite scathing about the department and the fact they are taking their time about whether they’ll release it or lodge an appeal indicates there is not a culture of openness there.”

Anyone?

Revealed: Hidden claims over IBRC liquidation (Justine McCarthy, Sunday Times)

Screen-Shot-2016-02-16-at-14.01.13

Finance Minister Michael Noonan

You may recall barrister Garry O’Halloran’s claim that, at a Fine Gael Ard Fheis in 1997, Finance Minister Michael Noonan “ran” away from him as he attempted to discuss abuse allegations at a foster home in the south-east of the country.

Mr Noonan was the Health Minister at the time.

The Irish Examiner reported the claims on Tuesday and couldn’t get a response from Mr Noonan, despite contacting the Fine Gael press office, the Department of Finance, the Department of Health or the Department of Children.

Today, the claims were put to Minister Noonan and his response was recorded by Gavan Reilly, from Today FM.

Minister Noonan said:

“Well, first of all, I was asked by Richard Crowley two weeks ago about anything I know about this. And I gave him a full answer. When I heard about it, I asked for the file in the Department of Health – there was two pieces of correspondence there. It’s 20 years ago, I’ve no clear memory of it and there was a complaint in and I referred it through the officials, back to the South Eastern Health Board that were the authority at that time and we were told that the young woman in question, or young child in question, had been removed from the foster home.”

“Some weeks later, it transpired that the South Eastern Health Board officials, who had made the decision, had reversed the decision for some reason. Now Austin Currie was the junior minister with responsibility to children at the Department of Health at that time and we referred it on to him.”

“Now I understand Cllr O’Halloran, whom I don’t know, I mean I’m sure I met him when I was minister because I met a lot of councillors, I’m not sure whether he was Waterford or Wexford but he was on in the South East anyway and I reject his versions of events. The minister for children was Austin Currie and an arrangement was made for Gary O’Halloran I understand and some people with him to discuss the issue with Austin Currie.”

“Beyond that, I don’t know anything but I’m prepared to cooperate with whatever inquiry is put in place after the election.”

In response to a follow up question [impossible to make out] from the Irish Examiner’s Daniel McConnell, Mr Noonan said:

“No, no, no, you’re making, as I understand it what we have, at present, is a series of allegations that need to be inquired into. I understand there’s no proof on either side. And I don’t want to say anything that gets me into legal difficulty to satisfy your curiosity. I’ve given you an absolute straight answer on everything I know. I can’t be responsible for third parities who make allegations about me which I refute.”

Noonan denies claim he ran from abuse meeting (Today FM)

Previously: ‘He Spotted Me And Ran’

Rollingnews.ie

90409057 90409058 90409061

This afternoon.

Minister for Finance Michael Noonan explains the varying material benefits of abolishing the Universal Social Charge using the ‘income calculator’ launched at Fine Gael’s General Election 2016 HQ in Dublin.

Sexist.

Meanwhile…

9040907090409071-1

Yay!

Simon Coveney  and Simon Harris (flanking  Michael Noonan) with Young Fine Gael members and FG General Election 2016 candidates.

Sam Boal/Rollingnews

093016-Garrett-O-Halloran

Screen Shot 2016-02-16 at 14.01.13

From top: Barrister Garry O’Halloran and Finance Minister Michael Noonan

You may recall the foster home abuse case involving a woman referred to as Grace, in the media, and a recent interview Finance Minister Michael Noonan did with Richard Crowley about the case on RTÉ’s News At One.

During the interview, Mr Crowley asked Mr Noonan about his knowledge of the concerns raised in relation to abuse, and a letter the foster father had sent to Mr Noonan in 1996  – when he was Minister for Health.

Further to this…

Journalists Daniel McConnell and Fiachra Ó Cionnaith, in this morning’s Irish Examiner, report that a former Fine Gael councillor, barrister Garry O’Halloran – who was a former chair of the South Eastern Health Board – claims Mr Noonan literally ran away from a meeting to discuss concerns about sex abuse involving children.

They further reported that Mr O’Halloran quit Fine Gael because of Mr Noonan’s actions.

They reported:

In a statement to the Irish Examiner, Mr O’Halloran said at the 1997 Fine Gael Ard Fheis, Mr Noonan had arranged to meet him and some abuse victims.

“We arrived, he kept us waiting for hours, eventually I spotted him leaving the stage and heading for a door about 40m away, I was about 60m away and started to follow him in the direction of the door,” Mr O’Halloran has said. “He spotted me and ran, I then ran but he got to the door and when I arrived I was met with a cloud of black smoke as his garda driver sped away,” he added.

Mr O’Halloran and his delegation then met junior minister Austin Currie who concluded there was no substance to the claims of abuse.

“I went to the taoiseach, John Bruton, who said it was a matter for the minister for health. When I got no place, I then submitted by resignation from FG,” he added.

In addition…

Yesterday, the Irish Examiner first attempted to put queries about this matter to the Fine Gael press office, but we were directed to the Department of Finance.

The Department of Finance said as this was a health matter, they could not comment.

A Department of Health spokesman said he could not speak for Mr Noonan and referred us back to the Department of Finance, but also suggested we speak to the Department of Children.

At the time of going to print, no comment was forthcoming from Mr Noonan.

There you go now.

Michael Noonan ‘didn’t want to know about sex abuse claims’ (Irish Examiner)

Pics: Leah Farrell/Rollingnews and Law Library

Screen Shot 2016-02-04 at 13.49.26

Finance Minister Michael Noonan at Fine Gael’s Long Term Economic Plan launch in Dublin this morning

On Tuesday, in the Dáil, United Left Alliance TD Clare Daly raised the case of ‘Grace’ and the foster care home in Waterford in which she suffered extreme physical and sexual abuse for many years.

She remained in the home for 13 years after other children had been removed because of concerns raised.

Ms Daly told the Dáil:

“In 1996 a decision was made by the social workers on the ground to remove that young woman. That is a fact which is backed up. We know that subsequently the foster father contacted the then Minister for Health, Deputy Noonan, and petitioned to have what he called his “beloved daughter” kept with the family… A documented case conference decision to remove that young woman from the foster home before August was subsequently reversed in October 1996 and the young woman, Grace, remained there up until 2009. People need to know who made that decision and who will pay the price for it.”

Ms Daly added:

One of the whistleblowers at the centre of this case has made the point that, sadly, it is not the only such case. In his opinion, it represents dozens of others in the same region over a 20 to 30-year time span. It is fair to say there is a systemic problem in the HSE. It is very much the old attitude that when the church or State is threatened, the response is to say nothing, admit nothing, call in the lawyers and see what happens.”

Further to this, Finance Minister Michael Noonan spoke to Richard Crowley on RTÉ’s News At One and Mr Crowley raised the matter of the letter…

Richard Crowley: “As you know, Clare Daly raised an issue in the Dáil this week. This was in relation to the abuse allegations in the South East area and she mentioned that a letter had been written by the foster father in the controversy, directly to you as Minister for Health, this was in 1996, by the foster father. Can you, I know it’s 20 years ago and you received lots of letters, thousands of letters at that time no doubt, have you had a chance to check you files or do you have any recollection of that case? At that particular time? Or at any time you while you were minister for health?”

Michael Noonan: “No, I’ve no clear memory of it but I did check the position of Department of Health and seemingly two letters arrived, one to me, and one to the junior minister for health, Austin Currie. And the letter, to me, I contacted, I got my officials to contact the South Eastern Health Board and my understanding of it was the person would be removed from foster care. But subsequently, information came through that there was some kind of appeal and that that didn’t happen and then, after that, because it was a question of the possible abuse of a child, the data was given to the minister of state who had responsibility for children. And I’m not sure what happened after that.”

Crowley: “So you had no further contact with the issue or the people involved?”

Noonan: “I’d no further contact after that and I didn’t have the power to direct and I didn’t direct. But the initial information I got was that yes, there was an issue and the child was removed. And, subsequently then, I forget the exact details but it was some kind of  appeal process and the decision of whoever took it down in the South East wasn’t implemented at that point and then it went on to Minister Austin Currie.”

Crowley: “Minister Noonan, thank you very much for coming in…”

Listen back in full here

Clare Daly claims foster father lobbied Michael Noonan (Irish Times)

Previously: Still In The System

Clare Daly transcript via Kildarestreet.com

Sam Boal/Rollingnews

4095

German finance minister Wolfgang Schaeuble and Michael Noonan

Wolfy and Wily.

Bad cop. Bad cop.

Mr [Michael] Noonan sided with Germany in warning the provision of day-to-day emergency ECB lending to Greece cannot continue indefinitely.

The Finance Minister was among the toughest contributors in talks on the EU’s response to the Greek crisis.

At a heated finance ministers’ meeting, Mr Noonan and his German counterpart, Wolfgang Schaeuble, argued that the ECB governing council could not keep meeting every day to approve emergency loans to Greece.

But ECB officials told the ministers not to interfere with monetary policies.

Noonan backs Germans in Greek cash standoff Thomas Molloy, Independent.ie)

(AP)

Screen Shot 2015-06-03 at 21.44.08

Finance Minister Michael Noonan on Six One this evening

Finance Minister Michael Noonan appeared on RTÉ’s Six One this evening to explain why a Commission of Inquiry will be carried out into certain transactions by IBRC.

“What has changed my mind on the process [of a review into IBRC] is that, since then, new allegations have been made. There’s no evidence underpinning any allegations but the allegations are now causing public concern and the review, in my view, is insufficient to deal with the new allegations so I recommended that the Government do a full Commission of Investigation which would report but the end of the year…”

“A new set of allegations emerged, surrounding the speech made by Deputy Catherine Murphy in the Dáil and that, together with the fact that there were cases before the courts about the publication of Deputy Murphy’s speech heightened public concern and I believe, at this stage, it’s in the public interest to put the matter in the hands of a judge who, under the powers of the 2004 Act will examine everything, including the original allegations which gave rise to the review by the liquidators and  taking into account the new allegations as well…”

“There may be wrongdoing but, if there is, there’s no evidence of it in any set of allegations. And all we have is a series of allegations but there’s public disquiet, it’s increasing, it’s in the public interest to have these matters fully investigated. We can’t have a belief going around that there was actions that were improper and that, in some way or another, the taxpayer lost out…”

When pressed by host Brian Dobson about the drip feed of information, following the way in which he answered questions put to him in the Dáil by Catherine Murphy – she asked 19 parliamentary questions before she got a comprehensive reply – Mr Noonan said:

“I answered questions, absolutely fully in the way questions are answered in the Dáil. There were full answers made but, obviously, if you go for Freedom of Information and look for a full file, you’ll get background information as well. But there’s a methodology in the Dáil, if somebody feels the answers they got are inadequate. They can refer it to the Ceann Comhairle and adjudicate. Now the questions were adequately answered and of course there’s a drip feed of information – there’s thousands of documents, thousands of pages of documents in IBRC and thousands in the Department of Finance… You don’t produce full files when one specific question is asked”

Mr Noonan’s department has also released a four-page document containing the draft terms of the inquiry.

From the draft:

Screen Shot 2015-06-03 at 22.03.05

Screen Shot 2015-06-03 at 22.04.16

Meanwhile…Philip Ryan in the Irish Independent reported tonight:

“The Department of Finance has discovered a tranche of board meeting minutes from the Irish Bank Resolution Company (IBRC) which Finance Minister Michael Noonan previously said he had not received.”

“The minutes include the IBRC board meeting where the sale of Siteserv to a company owned by businessman Denis O’Brien was discussed. However, the details of the sale, including the payment of €5m to Siteserv shareholders, was not outlined in the documents… A Department of Finance source said the files, which are described as ‘board packs’ were “incorrectly filed” in the Department and only recently discovered… A Department of Finance source said the documents do not change the fact that the Minister was not made aware of the details of the Siteserv deal or any other significant transactions at IBRC.”

Hmmm.

The Department of Finance has since published the minutes from the meeting on March 15 2012:

Screen Shot 2015-06-03 at 22.55.55 Screen Shot 2015-06-03 at 22.57.04

Screen Shot 2015-06-03 at 23.00.40

Screen Shot 2015-06-03 at 23.01.18

Readers will note the presence of former IBRC senior executive Richard Woodhouse at the meeting on March 15, 2012.

But, following a press conference held by former IBRC chairman Alan Dukes on April 24 of this year, the Irish Times reported, on April 25, that:

Mr Dukes also revealed that Richard Woodhouse, then IBRC’s head of asset management, was kept out of discussions over the Siteserv deal within IBRC, as he also managed the relationship between the bank and Mr O’Brien. ‘We appointed Tom Hunerson instead, and also Peter Rossiter, the chief risk officer, to oversee the transaction,’ said Mr Dukes.”

Anyone?

Previously: NOKPMG!

Government gives go-ahead for commission of investigation into certain IBRC transactions (Philip Ryan, Irish Independent)

Noonan says inquiry will examine preferential interest rates given to IBRC clients (RTE)

Siteserv: attacks on civil servants ‘regrettable’, says Moran (Irish Times)

00118185

Alan Dukes (left) and Michael Noonan at a Fine Gael event in 2002

 

The Government is considering the appointment of a Commission of Investigation into certain activities and transactions at IBRC, former Anglo Irish Bank.
A proposal to establish such an inquiry has been brought to Cabinet today by Minister for Finance, Michael Noonan, using existing 2004 legislation. An announcement is anticipated later today.

The Government had previously asked IBRC special liquidators, Kieran Wallace [of KPMG, which advised on the Siteserv deal] and Eamonn Richardson to review various IBRC transactions which involved a cost to the Exchequer of at least €10 million or were seen to involve other matters of public interest.

RUN!

Government considering IBRC commission of investigation (Harry McGee and Cliff Taylor, Irish Times)

Earlier: Previously On ‘Falsified Documents’

Update:

90378385Minister for Finance Michael Noonan yesterday in government buildings

This morning.

Minister for Finance Michael Noonan went on RTÉ Radio One’s Today with Sean O’Rourke to discuss yesterday’s Spring Statement and the ongoing Siteserv crisis with the host in rare form (in fairness).

You could hear a pin drop.

As the minister chose to whisper.

Sean O’Rourke:
“On the, em, Siteserv sale, Minister, you have, the inquiry announced there last week, just reviewing, eh, that and other transactions by IBRC, Mr Wallace, the liquidator who’s in charge of that and then he’s going to be overseen by [retired judge] Iarlaith O’Neill, do you regret now that you weren’t more forthcoming in the Dail when you were asked questions about that, that transaction and issue?”

Michael Noonan: “No, I was very forthcoming. The issues coming out now in the interviews done by Alan Dukes {former IBRC chairman]  and Mr [Mike] Aynsley [former IBRC CEO] and so on, they’re giving their side of the story, I have a whole run of Dáil questions again this week and I’ll be answering them and giving full information. I gave the information to the Dáil. But no one expects in a Dáil reply to get the information they get under Freedom of Information and Catherine Murphy, doing a very good job, went on to the Freedom of information route and she got the background.”

O’Rourke: “But [Independent TD] Catherine Murphy had to ask, she was on question 19 to you before it ever emerged that you had concerns, and very serious concerns, about the way IBRC was doing business, and not just about Siteserv.”

Noonan: “First of all, it was all back in 2012. The issue was the accountability of IBRC to the Minister for Finance and to the Department of Finance. The Minister and the officials were in exactly the same space. We had a whole series of concerns which we dealt with with the Board of IBRC, we resolved the situation to our satisfaction by putting an Assistant Secretary in there, there is no evidence whatsoever that any misappropriate action took place in any of their transactions but because it has become such an issue of public concern it’s timely now that…”

O’Rourke: “But you could have defused all that ages ago, Minister, by being a little more up-front about the concerns that were there, instead of which as [political correspondent] Brian Dowling put it last Sunday on the [RTÉ Radio] This Week programme, anybody reading your replies would say, well, nothing to see here, there’s nothing that gives any indication that the Minister was concerned about the way business was done and those answers were really designed to conceal more than they revealed.”

Noonan: “No, no, no, that is not correct. The information that was requested was given. I have no grounds now, and I don’t think anybody else has any evidence, that anything untoward happened. I got assurance from the Board through their chairman that what they did was in the best interests of the Irish taxpayers and I accepted that insurance because the responsibility, the legal responsibility, of the Board was to do what they did and I was barred from getting involved in any commercial decision of the Board and I accepted it and we will see now whether my judgment was right or not when it is reviewed, but the review isn’t because evidence has come out the review is because there has been a public furore and its in the public interest that…”

O’Rourke: “Let’s just get a little flavour of it, two very brief clips, one’s from you and the other’s from Alan Dukes when you announced the thing last week, here’s just what you said, I think, in Limerick in Friday…”

[plays recording]

Noonan: “One, is just to establish were there were any malpractices or any criminal offence and secondly would what happened in these transactions be considered to be sound business practice.”

Dukes: “And that makes me extremely angry, that even though the Minister says that he doesn’t expect to find anything like that, the very fact that there’s any mention of criminality or malpractice to my mind is absolutely outrageous.”

O’Rourke: “He’s hoppin’ mad.

Noonan: “Of course he is, he is, very annoyed. But all the allegations made under privilege in the Dail were effectively allegations that fraud had occurred. Now how could I possibly have a review conducted that didn’t deal with that issue. Fraud is a criminal offence.

O’Rourke: “In other words it was quite calculated, it wasn’t a slip of the tongue on your part or anything like that when you said fraud, criminality.”

Noonan: “Yeah, when you go back, I don’t think anything happened like that but if you go back on the record in the Dail the allegations were, effectively were, that there were criminal transactions fraud is a criminal offence, I mean, what would you be saying to me this morning if I prevented the review from examining whether fraud occurred or not? Like, that is a ridiculous position.”

O’Rourke: “For Alan Dukes to take, yes.

Noonan: “Well I think he probably misunderstood what I was doing or else he hadn’t been tuned in to what were the allegations made in the Dáil, but one of the problems in all these things where there’s allegations of scandal is that all allegations are run under privilege as if they were true and then truth has to be proved.”

O’Rourke: “But you didn’t, I don’t think you made it quite clear when you were making the announcement last Friday that it was because of things said in the Dáil that you used those words fraud or criminality.”

Noonan: “I did, I did a very long interview with [RTE journalist] Sean Whelan and I think I referenced the fact that it had gone to the point where there were allegations made and they had to be answered.”

O’Rourke: “What about Alan Dukes’ suggestion that your secretary general in the department John Moran wanted to have a kind of arrangement whereby not only would he be appointed would he join the board of IBRC but himself and Alan Dukes would effectively ready up decisions that would be pushed through the Board and in a way that Alan Dukes certainly felt was inappropriate.”

Noonan: “I don’t know what the basis for the second charge is but on the first charge it was quite common in the past to have departmental officials on the boards of organisations like IBRC. Brian Lenihan, when he set up the Board, because you know there were an awful lot of allegations of political interference in Anglo, he excluded departmental representatives and he also put an arrangement in place that the political side and the departmental side would have no influence over transactions, anything commercial was excluded so that made the accountability difficult but my difficulty with IBRC was an issue of governance and they were independent in carrying out their functions but I had a function to hold them accountable, they did not give me full value for my role and I had to fight in the public interest to make sure I had it their examples in the literature and information that has been revealed first of all the Government brought in a pay policy that bankers couldn’t be paid in excess of €500,000, they tried to ignore that and they tried to hire people at higher salaries, we wanted the cost of IBRC to reduced and instead of that they kept hiring people against government policy, so there were a lot of issues, but they were issues about their independence and my responsibility to hold them accountable.”

O’Rourke: “I know that he main explanation and justification for shutting them down for liquidating them was because of things to do with promissory notes but was that tense relationship and your dissatisfaction and lack of trust in them, to what extent did it influence that government decision?

Noonan: “No it didn’t. The sequence of events was that, you know, coming into the late spring and summer things came to a head and I had that meeting the minutes of which were released with Alan Dukes and Mr Ainsley and after that we made a decision that John Moran would meet Mr Aynsley [IBRC CEO] and the result of that meeting was an agreement that an Assistant Secretary would be put in. As well as that…”

O’Rourke: “And that didn’t work out too well either.”

Noonan: “As well as that we had a new relationship framework as they call it, you know, a new contract governing the relationship between the Department and IBRC and that gave us oversight of transactions in excess of 100 million and then by September I was negotiating in Europe on the promissory note and it was clear to me by September that whatever the solution ended up at in its detail it would involve the liquidation of the Bank…”

O’Rourke: “And is there any suggestion on your part or suspicion that the Siteserv sale was hurried through to get done and dusted before the new regime whereby they would have to report to you in more detail would arrive because it was only a matter of days, a couple of weeks…”

Noonan: “No, I have no evidence and I don’t think anybody else has of any wrongdoing, there was a series of unsupported allegations and we have to have a review…”

O’Rourke: “I suppose, as [former Labour Minister for Communications] Pat Rabbitte put it in his column in The Sunday Business Post last Sunday, no matter how effective the rebuttal, any story that has a rotten bank losing taxpayers’ money the country’s most prominent businessman shareholders of a bust company extracting a pay off and a minister accountable to the Dáil will outpace the economic statistics any day.”

Noonan: “Yes, all that is probably true but the people who were running IBRC at Board level they had no involvement in Anglo, I mean the whole board in Anglo had stood down this was a new board put in by [then Minister for Finance] Brian Lenihan and there were a lot of eminent people of high repute who were on that Board and I would classify Alan Dukes who was on the Board first and then appointed Chairman by Brian Lenihan as a a person of high repute as well and I have no evidence that they did anything.”

O’Rourke: “A former colleague of both of you, [Newstalk Breakfast presenter and former Fine Gael Minister] Ivan Yates, has suggested that if you were minister at the start when that Board was being assembled you’d never have appointed Alan Dukes chairman, whatever about keeping him there.”

Noonan: “No we have a cordial relationship which we’ve kept up over the years.”

O’Rourke: “That’s what [Progressive Democrats founder] Des O’Malley used to say about Charlie Haughey.”

Noonan: “Now, now, it’s not like that, we don’t see one another very often but when we see one another we’re friendly.”

O’Rourke: “And are you satisfied that this matter can be investigated and put out there in the public domain, all kinds of reassurance provided, how quickly, I think the 30th August was mentioned…”

Noonan: “Yeah, yeah, the end of August the end of August but I see this as the first phase possibly. It may, you know, when we get the report this may end the matter but I’m going to put the Report to the appropriate Dáil Committees and if there’s something that has to go farther we’ll go farther.”

O’Rourke: “But to go back to where we started, Minister, you weren’t upfront about the concerns you had, you talked earlier about data sharing with the Dail…”

Noonan: “I was upfront, I was upfront.”

O’Rourke: “Really? And how come we had to wait for the FOIs then at all, why shouldn’t you have given all the information that was in the FOIs, why not give that to the Dail?”

Noonan: “Because why do we have FOIs only to get background information?”

O’Rourke: “But it’s, it shouldn’t really be a game of cat and mouse, it’s not today or yesterday that the late Judge [Liam] Hamilton said if Dáil answers or Dail questions were properly answered there’d be no Beef Tribunal.”

Noonan: “It’s not a game of cat and mouse but there are procedures there which TDs can get information…”

O’Rourke: “But is there not a mindset there and maybe in your case it goes back to your days as Minister for Justice, tell them nothing.”

Noonan: “Ah now, you’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel there when you’re talking like that, I mean RTÉ isn’t great at disclosure you’re sitting on reports for 12 months that you haven’t published, I mean reports about the future of RTÉ*, so get off the stage, get off the stage now.”

O’Rourke: “Attack is the best form of defence there Minister, I’m just wondering why should a public representative elected by the Irish people not get the same information in reply to a Dail question as is there in the files anyway, why put them through the business of FOI?”

Noonan: “Because the files are often background information there was nothing in the files that added to the sum of the knowledge, the files were about a disagreement between us and it was the Department exercising its governance and when the proper procedure was invoked, Freedom of Information, all of the information was given out.”

O’Rourke: “Wasn’t that a bit clumsy now?”

Noonan: “I don’t think it’s clumsy at all, it’s very effective and it has proved to be effective.”

O’Rourke: “And you don’t see a case for put it out there, if a TD asks the question give them the answer, give them the answer?”

Noonan: “Well you see, I don’t think it’s feasible to say if somebody mentions IBRC that I give, you know, out chestloads of information on IBRC just because it’s mentioned.”

O’Rourke: “We’re talking about exams later and you’re a former teacher, answer the question you’re asked, is that essentially what you’re saying?”

Noonan: “What I’m saying is that there are two ways, well, there are several ways that deputies can get information and one of them is by Dáil question and the other is by Freedom of Information and Catherine Murphy followed the correct procedure, she invoked both options and she got the information.”

O’Rourke: “Would the moral of the story then from a TD’s point of view be, forget about the Dáil question, go straight for Freedom of Information?”

Noonan: “No, no. They’re different I mean you get very precise accurate information on the Dail question, if you’re looking for background then it’s Freedom of Information.”

O’Rourke: “OK Minister, thank you very much for coming in. Michael Noonan, the Minister for Finance.”

Listen back here

* anyone?

Meanwhile…

Notwithstanding the State’s ownership of the bank, IBRC operates at an arm’s length capacity from the State in relation to commercial issues. It is a matter for the board and management to determine and implement such policy in their organisation. Therefore, commercial decisions in relation to IBRC are solely a decision for the bank. IBRC have informed me that KPMG Corporate Finance and Davy Corporate Finance ran a joint sales process to sell Siteserv which was in severe financial difficulties and was unable to service or pay back its loans to IBRC. The sale process was initiated by Siteserv and overseen by a subcommittee of the Siteserv Board. The sale process involved two stages and IBRC was briefed after each stage. The Board of Siteserv, as advised by KPMG Corporate Finance and Davy Corporate Finance, recommended the successful bid as representing the best return forIBRC. The Board of the bank are satisfied that this is the case.

Michael Noonan’s reply to Pearse Doherty on April 18, 2012

 

Notwithstanding the State’s ownership of the bank at the time, Irish Bank Resolution Corporation operated at an arm’s length capacity from the State in relation to commercial issues. It was a matter for the board and management to determine and implement such policy in their organisation. Therefore, commercial decisions in relation to IBRC were solely a decision for the bank. I am aware that KPMG Corporate Finance and Davy Corporate Finance ran a joint sales process to sell Siteserv which was in severe financial difficulties and was unable to service or pay back its loans to IBRC. The sale process was initiated by Siteserv and overseen by a subcommittee of the Siteserv Board. The sale process involved two stages and IBRC was briefed after each stage. The Board of Siteserv, as advised by KPMG Corporate Finance and Davy Corporate Finance, recommended the successful bid as representing the best return for IBRC. I am advised that the Board of the bank at that time were satisfied that this was the case.

Michael Noonan’s reply to Catherine Murphy on December 16, 2014

Right so.

Also…

letter

Michael Noonan’s words used to scary effect in bowel-loosening letter from [REDACTED]’s legal team to Karl’s den the ‘sheet, January 2014.

Good times.

(Sasko Lazarov/Photocall Ireland)