Fluffybiscuits writes:

Unfortunately we as working class people are being priced out of the rental market. A two bedroom house next door to me [in Kilmainham in Dublin near St James Hospital] that was €900 to me is going for €1300 a month! That is pure extortion.Now people are saying that its to be expected. No it is not. Wages are not keeping up with rent full stop. The house next door went up 25%, my wages went up 2% approx this year…

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111 thoughts on “How Much?

    1. roddy

      Maybe you just got luckey with some cheap rent? I’d keep the head down if I was you and not be shouting about how much your landlord could make if he kicked you out and charged market rates.

    2. scottser

      not all housing. but definitely 2nd homes that were bought to rent and are now in arrears, homes repossessed by the banks and all properties owned by anyone who has had their debts written off, ala o’brien, dunne, drumm etc.

    3. Neilo

      Venceremos! I’d be only too glad to have my mortgage picked up by the taxpayers of Ireland. Can I start with a guesstimate of your contribution to the Neilo Towers Benevolent Fund?

      1. scottser

        technically, your mortgage has been leveraged, bundled, used as equity and sold on to a third party without your knowledge, so god knows who actually owns your mortgage but you can be pretty sure it’s been underwritten by us taxpayers at some stage.

  1. singingdetective

    I know it’s not possible but if we were all able to stop taking new places for 2 months than the rents would all start dropping. This isn’t people trying to cover their mortgages, it’s landlords trying to extract the maximum profit.

      1. brytothey

        Of course the are. Since when is renting a charity act. It’s a business. It would be idiotic for a landlord to rent below the market rate. What has that complete stranger (as in potential tenant) ever done to deserve a 4800 euro discount from the market rate?

        I agree rents are getting out of control, but all this nonsense about ‘the landlords are just greedy’ is lazy rhetoric. People should blame the lack of supply and lack of rights for long term tenants and so forth.

        1. scottser

          that’s the point – housing should not be a business and it should not be for profit. landlordism in its current form is extremely shady – one of the last unregulated industries operating in the state -ffs you need a licence for a dog and a telly but not to be a landlord.

          1. brytothey

            We’re long way from this socialist not-for-profit utopia you’re talking about. Although I imagine any housing that earns zero profit being pretty badly maintained and a little bit Soviet looking.

          2. ReproBertie

            F’all rights for tenants? F’all responsibliites you mean.

            The social welfare tenants that left my house owing 3 months rent and having broken every stick of furniture bar the kitchen table walked straight into another house paying by social welfare cheque (presumably only for the first month or two). The damage and lack of passing on the rent made exactly zero difference to their entitlement to the social welfare paying their way again. Meanwhile I am left having to fork out several thousand euro to repair or replace the furniture and repaint the house on top of the mortgage their rent was suposed to be covering and then get grief for not taking another risk on social welfare tenants.

            If you want to socialise housing then I’m more than happy to sell my house to the state and let the taxpayer deal with the mess these parasites leave behind.

          3. scottser

            you know reprobertie, a professional voluntary agency would manage problem tenants better and you’d have less hassle. while i appreciate landlords often have poor tenants or tenants who require a great deal of support, there are perfectly good tenants who get shafted daily and landlords who do nothing to incentivise or value good tenants. it works both ways.

          4. ReproBertie

            Done up and rented out again thankfully.

            Ironically this was the first (and last) time that a professional letting agent was used as we didn’t want the hassle and due to “lost” paper work I’ve been getting nowhere in pushing through a PRTB claim. I’d need to know where the tenants moved to to chase them through small claims.

    1. Nikkeboentje

      I am a forced landlord (left Ireland in 2010 and rented my house in Dublin). Initially I was paying an additional 1,000 a month towards my mortgage as the rent was no where near the repayments. I’m now paying about €700 a month. I bought my house in 2002 so I pity all the people with considerably higher mortgages than me. So not every landlord is try to make a profit, a lot aren’t even covering their costs.

  2. Rob

    Since when does Ireland have working class people?

    We have rich/connected/corrupt/political class and “other”.

    Their are many vertical bands within other, with limited barriers to movement either way.

      1. Jock

        The ruling classes are always so pro immigration and are quick to call racism on anyone that disagrees. These are the landlords and business owners that need high rents and cheap labour. The younger working local gets shafted for little upside.

        1. scottser

          ah jock, just when i think your stock of gobsh1tery can’t get any worse! keep it up lad – you’re pure gold!!

      1. Squiggleyjoop

        The thing about the immigents is you never know if they’re trying to steal your job, your house or your girl. So it’s safer to assume they want all 3 and emmigate.

  3. Fe Dlowered

    Is there any end to this guff? It’s called Supply and Demand. It’s not gouging. It’s simple economics.

    1. Jock

      It’s bollocks though with artificially restricted supply and increased demand that is encouraged by the state.

      1. bobsyerauntie


        Nail on the head…

        If I hear ‘It’s a supply issue’ one more time, I’ll go mad..
        It’s a greed issue, most of the TD’s, Senators, etc are landlords..
        It’s in their interest for the property speculation to continue..
        and for rents to keep rising…

  4. Harchibald

    A 2 bed house in Kilmainham in good nick would cost around €280,000. The mortgage on a 2-bed house with 90% LTV is €1,277 per month.

    Rent v mortgage is a trade off.

    I’m not saying €1,300 is cheap or expensive, but the logic used by Fluffybiscuits is moronic.

    1. Anne

      Hmmm, not really following what you don’t think is logical..

      But how is comparing exorbitant rent to exorbitant house prices more reasoned than what she’s saying?

      Ah fupp it, just go way and learn to communicate.. I’m not fupping pychic Sally, muppet.. Sorry, I just can’t be any nicer now.

      1. Paolo

        Can you seriously not understand why charging €1300 per month rent on a house that could be costing €1200+ is reasonable?

        Are you not able to comprehend that?

        1. Anne

          You have no idea what mortgage, if any, any landlord has.
          Foreign vulture funds in particular won’t have mortgages…

          Bigger picture Paulio.

  5. ahyeah

    Own fault. If fluffy had spent her college years studying instead of fellating, she’d have a better job with a higher salary. Everyone told you where it would get you but you wouldn’t listen.

  6. Owen C

    Avg price for a 1-2 bed in Kilmainham seems to be around 1300-1500 (some significantly higher and none less than 1250).So the issue here is really that his neighbours were getting their house seriously cheaper than true market value. More power to them, but you cant just complain when prices are increased or higher than you’d like, if it seems clear that some older agreements are way below market value.

  7. bobsyerauntie

    The whole notion of landlordism turns my stomach. It should never be considered a justified way to make money and anyone that chooses to be a landlord is a leech in my opinion. Landlords have always just leeched off those less fortunate than them. It’s a feudalist ideology which the Anglo-Normans brought into Ireland, and globally it’s now just a way to screw over the disadvantaged, the lower paid, the homeless, the unemployed- basically those who have no choice but to rent or no capital to buy. People talk of the housing market as if it’s something which is a natural occurrence, as if it’s always been there, and always been that way. It’s not natural, and it contributes to discontent, class prejudice, and economic turmoil. Landlordism was at the root of why the Irish economy collapsed. The Irish were dispossessed, then subsequently exploited in Colonial times. That dispossession was never rectified because and it would be impossible to now, but the tenant exploitation certainly continues and personally I think it’s vile..

    1. Owen C

      If you are against Landlordism, where do u suggest people who either (a) don’t want to or (b) cant yet afford to buy, should live? Who do they rent off?

      1. scottser

        the state has always provided social housing. also, there are a good few voluntary housing agencies in the market who operate as professional landlords and these agencies should be first in line for repossessed housing stock.

          1. scottser

            not at all owen c. you don’t need to build that many more housing units if tenants can rent for longer and folks can incrementally change up or down according to need over time. it’s more about proper management of the entire housing stock than a huge rush to build.

          2. Owen C


            it was suggested above that Landlordism is terrible. So, ill ask again, if we don’t want landlords, what is the alternative? This would be for the “don’t want to buy” or who “cant afford to buy”, not the “cant afford to rent” subset.

          3. scottser

            owen c, it’s fair to say that some landlords are completely out of their depth. not all. some are opportunistic chancers who won’t maintain properties, keep deposits, rackrent, evict without due process etc. the alternative to private landlords are voluntary housing associations who provide housing and housing supports. the other alternatives include an increase in social housing provision and private development for sale or short-term rent.

            the big problem with renting privately is the lack of a long-term options in the market. economic conditions like those we face now don’t allow for movement between stocks, so if there are bottlenecks in the rental supply you’ll see a supply and demand issue for properties for sale leading to unrealistic prices.

          4. Banotti

            The alternative is professional, not for profit housing agencies. Nobody should be using homes as a wealth generator.

      2. bobsyerauntie


        Yes, I am against Landlordism, property speculation, rack-renting and in particular, greedy unscrupulous landlords who exploit the market, and rent sub-standard shit-holes to desperate and vulnerable people..
        I find the whole thing abhorrent..

        If you knew your history (presuming you are Irish?) and if you had respect for it, and for your ancestors, then you would find Landlordism abhorrent too..

    2. kellma

      Burn the capitalists! In simplistic terms if there are 2 people and A has more money than B and can afford to buy two houses and B cannot afford to buy any but can rent from A, whats the big deal?!? Life is not equal and some people are more successful than others and not always because they are evil black magic capitalists but because they have a bit of this amazing thing called “cop on”.

      1. Don Pidgeoni

        Yeah, you poors. Life is not equal so eat your dust soup and stop complaining! Its not my fault I had cop on at conception to be born into luckier circumstances than you.

        And don’t touch me.

        1. kellma

          Ah here, seriously…….
          Cop on does have a link to the birth process in that it tends to be something in your genes (you either have it or you don’t). Sure some people have a better base to work from but not everyone who ends up making a go of it starts from the same place (as I said life is not equal). Of a few landlords i can think of one of them left school at 14 and still to this day does not have great literacy but she is some shrewd operator. Oh and she also managed to bring up 4 children on her own without scrounging off anyone…. Now she has lots of cop on. I can give you her number if you like and she might be able to help you…

      2. scottser

        no problem with b renting from a in a private contract for a short-term. the problem for b is how is he to make long-term plans and set up a home? what happens if b loses his job or gets sick and can’t work, or a jacks up the rent and b becomes homeless, which we all pay for? housing is just to f**king important to be left to speculators. besides, how do you plan for economic growth if you don’t get basics like housing sorted first?

      1. brytothey

        What’s the alternative? We all have social housing? Turn Ireland into Cuba? Sounds worse, to be honest.

    3. Spaghetti Hoop

      Not all landlords letting their property are motivated by profit – some have to on account of changes in circumstances, moving away for work, scaling down, scaling up, family additions, ill-health, etc.

      1. Paolo

        Don’t be ridiculous! Are you seriously suggesting that some people rent out their houses/apartments for reasons other than profit? We all know that each and every landlord is a lizard person who sleeps on top of a mound of gold and baby bones.

        Everyone knows that.

        1. fluffybiscuits

          @Spaghetti hoop I’ll acknowledge some have them as investments for old age but there is a cross section that are using them and not maintaining them whilst looking for fortunes.

          1. Spaghetti Hoop

            There are a group of ‘reluctant’ landlords Fluffy, as much a victim of the housing market as a tenant, who initially bought a home, not investment. Safe to say then that the idea that ALL landlords being greedy is nonsense. There are woes on both sides and for every scumbag landlord there’s a scumbag tenant. I’m all for regulation into fair rents and practices. Good luck with the fight.

            Humans aside, the great historic Georgian and Victorian houses of Dublin are left to fall into dilapidation too.

  8. Donal

    so fluffybiscuits when your rent dropped by 30-50% in 2010/11 and your wages dropped by 10% (if they dropped at all), were you proposing a compensation scheme for landlords?

    of course not, they had to take the hit back then and you are taking the hit now

    as others have said, stop blaming the landlords, they respond to supply and demand. Its the law that needs to change – Ireland needs better renting legislation that provides long term security for landlords and tenants

  9. fluffybiscuits

    Thanks all – apart from Jock, up yer flaps

    My point is that housing is not a business at all. In the Netherlands there is rent control, rent cannot go up more than the market value and must be in line with inflation. There is another angle you could look at it from in this regards, wages are not keeping abreast of the housing market. Very soon there is going to be a situation whereby rents are not at all affordable for those of us on the lower rungs of the ladder. There was an apartment to buy in Inchicore I saw for 140k, two bed room turn key. Then again if wages are not keeping abreast how do we get a deposit an live some sort of life at the same time. I made every reasonable effort to save for a deposit but bills get in the way. And there are people out there who are WORSE off than me.

    @Roddy I rented a box room in a house which Im still in for €380 per month

    @brytothey You have stated rents are out of control, my issue exactly.If a landlord wants to make a couple of quid on the side thats fair enough but then greed takes over.

    @Jock yer a knob end

    @Harchibald – if house prices were reasonable in the first place then that would be acceptable. What is the value of a mortgage suppose to be ? Three times a persons annual wage? Most people on an industrial wage could only afford around 110k roughly.

    @bobsyerauntie somethings never change

    @SteveD,mine only went up because of increment apart from USC, Pension, Income tax, pension levy, PRSI etc. which negated any gains.

      1. fluffybiscuits

        Jock when you come on and make a general claim with no back up whatsoever and pull figures out of your hole of course you are going to get abuse, what else did you expect?

          1. Diddley Aye

            Well either you and Jock are the same person or you just pulled some figures out of someone elses arse. Tis a pity, I used to like your style as Banotti, the Jock fella was a bit nasty though.

          1. Banotti

            Scottser you are so far off the pace in comparison to me. I’ll fill you in. Actually, I’ve been waiting a while for this one as Mani didn’t reply.

            Please refer firstly to here. I was on great form that day.
            You will note this line “Banotti
            November 14, 2014 at 6:24 pm
            This is Jock btw.”

            As I said previously I’ve been open about my accounts. Its not and its hardly worth caring about. Mani, being the massive dickhead that he is, thought he had one over me with his constant Banotti references. I played dumb and waited for him to waste an hour finding some explosive evidence. He must have forgot which is a shame because I had that link ready and waiting

          2. scottser

            ah, jockotti, you have the baytins of me, lad. here was i spending all day trying to catch you out and twas all a ruse!! ha! aredn’t you the smart fella, with your links all ready and waiting, hah!!!

          3. Banotti

            You were the one that went searching for old links to prove a point. You thought you had me fooled and now you are the fool. Nothing you say now will change that.

        1. Disgraced Former Minister Frilly Mickie Keane

          But sur where’s the fun in that

          Here Fluff
          I suggested a possible solution over on the mad Frank thread for ya

  10. fluffybiscuits

    If you want to know how bad some places are I went to see a place last week in Drimnagh. €850 pm with

    -mashed chewing gum in the carpets
    -holes in the wall
    -wardrobe doors hanging off
    -Paint peeling off walls
    -Kitchen presses that were filthy
    -Bathroom that look like a throwback to the sixties
    -Beds that were not made and covered in stains
    -Floor had not been even swept

    1. Banotti

      Why would they take any less when welfare will cover it or Brazilians here “studying” at two to a room?

    2. bobsyerauntie

      That is typical of the dumps that these sociopathic slum-lords have been pawning off on renters in Ireland for decades. I was on a rent allowance for several years and the amount of dumps and hideously greedy scumbag landlords I came in contact with was unbelievable. Some of them turned my stomch just dealing with them, horrible people. The problem is they are not just a ‘few bad apples’, most landlords are sociopaths, particularly the ones who exploit rent allowance recipients. I have had friends who own property, and relations, and I say the same thing to them, I think landlordism is abhorrent, it’s exploitation plain and simple..

      Landlordism takes the most basic and primal human need and turns it into a commodity, it’s anti-human and unethical and it’s one of the reasons why we kicked the English out. I just don’t understand Irish people exploiting their fellow Irish through landlordism… I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night, but then again, I’m not a sociopath like most Irish landlords are….

  11. wearnicehats

    I wonder will Irish people ever manage to lose this sense of entitlement that seems to run in their veins

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