Today’s Dawn Raids

at

2910109_origLast year’s protest at Jobstown, Tallaght

Gardai this morning arrested four men at different addresses in the Tallaght area and brought them to Tallaght and Rathfarnham garda stations for questioning.

Yesterday two men, a woman, and a 16-year-old boy were arrested and questioned and later released without charge with files being prepared for the Director of Public Prosecutions

Four men arrested in relation to Jobstown anti-water charge protest investigation (Independent.ie)

Workers Solidarity Movement writes:

Like clockwork the state repression of the anti water charges movement continues this morning with additional arrests being reported in Tallaght. In one case no less than eight police turned up in the early morning to arrest a 14 year old boy.

We are not sure yet on numbers (update: 4 arrested) but presumably there will have once more been four attempted arrests continuing the pattern set the previous two mornings. This is the calculated and deliberate intimidation of an entire community in punishment for a Labour Party minister spending two hours in a car on the one hand. And on the other it is designed to scare all those across the country who have opposed government policies into silence.

A protest has been called for 6.30 Thursday evening outside the Department of Justice on Stephen’s Green. Let’s make sure it is a massive one that tells the state Enough!

Workers Solidarity Movement (Facebook)

187 thoughts on “Today’s Dawn Raids

  1. Soundings

    Maybe the protesters should conduct a few dawn raids of their own.

    How would Joan Burton like it if a group of protesters turned up outside her house at 7am, and interrupted her day by letting her know in clear terms how they feel. Nothing illegal like, but it is still legal to protest in this country.

    1. Mister Mister

      Nope, it’s not illegal to protest in this country.

      Unless you’re in North Korea or some other dictatorship, are you in North Korea ?

      1. All the good ones fly south for winter

        Not yet but put his political idols in power for a decade and we’ll get there.

    2. Mister Mister

      And is your memory so short, even with the photo reminder, that you can’t remember what actually happened that time ?

      1. Zuppy International

        From the reports I’ve seen a community in Dublin decided to object in a direct and non-violent manner the hijacking of a community event by a woman who got herself elected to the Oireachtas on a pretence: She promised she would send banksters to jail, now she just sends guards to arrest those who may have embarrassed her.

        From this point on Moany Joan will live and die in infamy.

        1. Diddley Aye

          You think politicians should send banksters to jail and then you think Joan Burton ordered the police to arrest this crowd. You are a fascist and a loon.

      2. Soundings

        An elected politician was obstructed in November 2014, no question.

        Joan Burton wasn’t “trapped in her car” unless the protesters managed to get hold of the child lock remotes. She was able to leave her car, but the protesters were obstructing her car. That’s legitimate protest. We see it every day at the water installation protests, when protesters obstruct a van from entering their estate, by sitting in the road or standing in front of the vehicle. That’s legitimate protest, and so is going round Joan’s house at 7am and calling her ministerial actions to account.

        1. Sinabhfuil

          It might be ‘legitimate protest’ but in Ireland we consider it good manners to protest at people’s place of work, and not outside their home.

          1. Soundings

            I think that convention went out the window when 6-10 Gardai turn up at people’s family homes at 7am to arrest people who are, in the cases on Monday, pillars of the community.

        2. scottser

          it was like tiananmen square all over again. except it was joan, not a tank. and there were loads of people, not just one bloke.

        3. Pat O 'Kelly

          If you hold me against my will in a car van house whatever – that is illegal detention
          Holding someone against their will is not peaceful
          It may not be violent in that punches might not necessarily be thrown but it still does not make it peaceful

    3. jackdaw

      How can you trust what Murphy has to say about anything. He couldn’t even count the number of Guards that came to his house!!

  2. newsjustin

    Kidnapping is a serious offence. The Gardaí are entirely correct to deal with it in a serious manner. This, “they could have rang me and I’d have called in to the station” stuff is nonsense.

    Paul Murphy is on tape with a megaphone declaring the terms under which he and his fellow protestors would release Joan Burton and her colleagues.

    1. Nessy

      Nonsense! Nobody was kidnapped. I certainly didn’t see any restrains on Joan Burton (bondage or otherwise) when she voluntarily walked from one vehicle, to another vehicle which was already surrounded by protesters. She could have walked back to the original car which wasn’t obstructed by protesters at any stage but she chose not to.

      Paul Murphy in on tape with a megaphone asking the crowd to vote on whether or not they should stand up off the ground and move along, as instructed by the Gardai. The Gardai had asked him to speak to the crowd as he is an elected representative for the area and the people would be more inclined to listen to him rather than the Gardai

        1. Nessy

          She wasn’t being held captive so I don’t know how Paul could have “freed” her.

          If she was trapped in her car through child locking or whatever, she should have asked the Garda, or a protester for that matter, to help her out of her car. She stayed there of her own accord really when you think about it

  3. bisted

    …the posturing and grandstanding by Joan Burton on this incident is curious. She seems intent on changing the nature of protest. Criminalising people for participating in a spontaneous demonstration of anger at the imposition of a deeply divisive piece of legislation shows how much she has lost touch.

          1. Zuppy International

            12 people have now allegedly been arrested (three months) after this incident. No charges mind you. I think the point it the state is acting outside its authority.

          2. Don Pidgeoni

            Really? I would like to see the evidence of what is claimed to be “false” imprisonment” vs sitting in front of a car. Strange how if the police had done their jobs, Joan wouldn’t have been in that position at all.

          3. Don Pidgeoni

            Why? Because it is impossible to plan for the fact that maybe, given how upset people are about an issue, there might be protests, so maybe we should get more police there just in case or have a plan in case this happens? Or to have an effective response that isn’t just pulling out batons and smashing people up, cause that would be the only possible thing they could have done right?

          4. Joe the Lion

            Are you for real Anne?

            Ms Burton was going about her lawful business appearing on a Saturday afternoon in the public service at a centre for disadvantaged young people.

            Do you think she was there for the craic?

            I’m sorry but I find your attitude is appalling. The woman has as many commenters note helped to preserve the meagre benefits that most folks receive in the face of the most arrogant, insufferable, poodle-like right-wing puppet government in Western Europe. She did not deserve to be accosted in the course of her days work by people many of whom have probably never worked a day in their lives.

          5. Zarathustra

            Anne, ‘Unless maybe a reaction was wanted’? Joan Burton was invited to the graduation ceremony by An Cosan.

          6. Zuppy International

            “Ms Burton was going about her lawful business appearing on a Saturday afternoon in the public service at a centre for disadvantaged young people.”

            According to reports at the time Brutal imposed herself on a community event. The students, in particular, were not happy.

          7. Anne

            Joe,
            I agree with you, I didn’t approve of how she was barricaded in her car, and for the length of time too.
            However, surely she would have had some idea prior to going there, what she might be facing into. These things were not arranged secretly.

            Also, I heard Ruth Coppinger mention earlier on Leaders Questions that the people of An Cosan didn’t really want her there.

            Got a bit heated between um all though.. Someone shouted something like “call the guards.. arrest us all”. ha

      1. Captain_Wasso

        “Organising it over Facebuke and Twitter is not spontaneous.”

        Yes it is? I’m not sure what your definition of spontaneous is – should they have used smoke signals? Or maybe even that would be too much, they should have shouted at each other. Or maybe *even that* would be too much and they should have resorted to some kind of primeval psychic connection which we have now mostly lost due to our reliance on unholy technologies of communication.

      1. Diddley Aye

        So say if Youth Defence block Clare Daly in her car for three hours, spit at her, call her Geebag and worse, kick the people with her and smack her in the face with a water balloon, all while led by someone with a megaphone, you’d be ok with that because its a legitimite form of protest?

          1. Diddley Aye

            So you think its ok to treat protestors differently depending how whether you agree with their cause. Thats where fascism comes from but you will never open your mind enough to acknowledge that fact.

        1. ABM's Bloodied Underwear

          In this scenario, what were Clare Daly’s actions with regard to issues that concerned YD in the preceding few months and what electoral promises had she made, and did she then vote for the opposite of these promises when voted into the Dáil?

        2. scottser

          in fairness, clare daly would kick their @sses – she’d be all ninja and sh1t and they’d be all ‘i want my mommy. and daddy of course, cos that’s the way the lord planned it’. YD w@nkers

        3. Gav D

          Well, yeah. Its not illegal. And I dont think anyone is saying what you’re contending. While it might be c*ntish, but theyre fully within their rights to do so (in fact they often do worse). But they’re within their rights to do it – its a pretty key principle.

    1. Diddley Aye

      Dont know what democratic paradise you’re from but tell us, what would have happened there if this had been done to the vice president of your country. Would the police have been restrained at the time? Would there have been any legal follow up?

      1. Don Pidgeoni

        Touchy.

        To start with the police probably would have done their jobs by either protecting the minister, or getting her out of there pronto instead of 2 hours later. They have to take some of the blame here but they won’t. And, I doubt there would have been any arrests because they wouldn’t be able to make such spurious claims stick.

        1. Diddley Aye

          Doing their jobs then would have involved getting the batons and tear gas out. How about that for political policing.

          1. Diddley Aye

            Yeah we can make our politicians hide away for fear of the mob. For all its faults this is a free country. If you like mob rule, find somewhere else to live. Careful though, sooner or later they’ll turn on you.

          2. Diddley Aye

            Block a car in and then some. Its against the law. You wouldn’t accept it if it happened to to you and you would insist on protection from the state. But then that would make you a hypocrite.

          3. Don Pidgeoni

            Why, what else did they do Diddley? What exactly did they do that was illegal? I am genuinely interested to hear.

            At a push, you could get that water balloon incident in as an assault but that was what, one guy? Not 12.

          4. Diddley Aye

            Are you living in a cave? They plastered the videos all over the incident but they’re so unaware of their thuggishness they cant see any wrong because that’s their normality. If you want any specifics I’m not going there because I look forward to the evidence being produced in these things called Courts. You know, places the police bring like, cases, because they cant hand out “extra-judicial” punishments. Check out Due Process when you’re a guest in our mad dictatorship.

          5. Zuppy International

            Diddle Aye looks forward to court but you’re going to need some charges to get there. So far none.

          6. Don Pidgeoni

            Yelling, waving placards and banging on cars are scary and annoying but its not illegal as far as I know. Being rowdy, or protesting, is not illegal.

            I also look forward to the evidence being presented but I bet you it will not even get that far as they do not have a leg to stand on.

            “Check out Due Process when you’re a guest in our mad dictatorship.”

            lol should I buy you a new pair of knickers or are the ones you have in a bunch ok?

          7. Diddley Aye

            Yeah. Thats the Due Process part. The DPP decides that and then a judge and/or a jury decides whether they’re guilty. Not the Guards, not Joan Burton, not the lizard overlords. Did I call you a fascist and a loon yet? Well add uninformed, blinkered moron.

          8. Don Pidgeoni

            I have never made claims about Joan getting people arrested so I don’t know what you are talking about. I am happy you are riled enough to call me names though. Good debating there.

            The DPP will probably throw these cases back out on their ears. It will be interesting to see what happens, given that to date no charges have been made. It will also be interesting to find out who decided to authorise these arrests because someone had to, and I think they have got it very wrong.

            Sorry, forgot the insult. D***head. Is that better? Is that how I do it?

          9. Diddley Aye

            That was for that Zuppy eejit who wants politicians to directly send Bankers to jail and is simultaneously outraged because he thinks Joan Burton is ordering the police to round up her opponents.
            You are blinkered and more intolerant than is comfortable for you to admit to yourself. I know you’re Pro Choice, fair enough, try the thought experiment where the same treatment would be handed out to Clare Daly and her supporters. Would you think thats ok, I think not.

          10. Don Pidgeoni

            As a politician, I am sure Clare Daly knows what can come with the job. Joan was held up, not pulled from the car and beaten. Is it shocking? Yes? Should the police have done their job? Yes? Is it illegal and worthy of having 6 cops come to your door in the morning and arrest you? No. I still await your evidence that it is. I am happy to be corrected.

            What are they going to do? Arrest 4 people every morning until they have everyone who was in that crowd? What a complete joke.

          11. Diddley Aye

            All true, but after I pull the knickers out of my arse and spray some Lynx on my hair I will be a new man and wimmin will become visibly aroused in my presence. You, however will still be expressing solidarity with some seriously thuggish elements of of society because you’re Lefty and therefore anything Lefty has to be good.

          12. Don Pidgeoni

            A lefty? lol seriously?

            Go on, call me a pinko commie as well and be done with it. You’ll feel better about your inability to give me evidence that these people did something illegal.

          13. Diddley Aye

            I am not the Irish Legal System so I’ll wait to see what happens. The evidence is all over YouTube and Facebook where shouts of Peaceful Protest are intercut with spitting and charming terms like Geebag . Otherwise you’ll find podcasts where women following behind certain female politicians allege they were kicked and otherwise physically assaulted.

          14. Don Pidgeoni

            Spitting is only illegal if you do it on someone. maybe public order if you did it on a car but not much more and geebag is hardly that offensive – I mean BS doesn’t even screen it out. And your video would have to clearly show these people doing that. I doubt Paul Murphy spat on anyone or their car. Podcasts claiming being attacked is not evidence unless it happened at the time of the alleged assault. None of those warrant being arrested by 6 cops banging on your door 2 months later.

            I’m gonna leave you to your ramblings now.

            *sidles away slowly*

          15. Zuppy International

            @ Diddley Aye

            It was Joan Brutal herself that promised to deal with the criminal banksters, but since she got “elected” no one further word on that. Now she concentrates on impoverishing the people of Ireland in order to pay her due deference to the criminal banking classes.

            I suppose it’s possible she didn’t have a word in someone’s ear about the current spate of dawn raids but it is very likely someone is pushing for this on her behalf.

          16. Diddley Aye

            Take it up with the Judicial system. All politicians can do is put the systems and resources in place, then its out of their hands, and rightly so. Check out Mary Harney and Charlie Haughey for what happens when politicians stick their noses where they dont belong. As for dawn raids, that has always been the way, even for Sean Fitzpatrick and he’s hardly a martyr.
            If you are surprised that politicians have trouble keeping promises after getting elected, well that’s one of the faults with western democracy and no ones found a solution to that yet. Simple fact is, politicians who are too inflexible rarely get elected and if they do, cannot compromise to get things done without someone shouting sellout at them. Check out Syriza for a live example of big mouth meets reality.

  4. Buzz

    This is a joke, Moan could have got out of her car at any stage, there was no assault, why are the Gardai wasting valuable time on this nonsense when they could be out catching bike thieves, whose activities affect real people without State cars and drivers to ferry them around. Burton is so out of touch it’s unreal.

    1. Mister Mister

      Ha ha, bike thieves. Yeah, everyone in Jobstown are carless and are robbed of their liberty by damn bike thieves.

      1. Buzz

        I’m not talking about Jobstown, I’m talking about normal middle-class working people who use their bikes to get around town – for whom bicycle theft is a scourge.

          1. Buzz

            Efficient. Use. Of. Police. Time. (instead of engaging in a charade of arresting people for nothing, designed to intimidate would-be protesters.)

  5. diddy

    Back up Beveryone.
    JB is the deputy prime minister of our country. If in any other country the deputy prime ministers car was surrounded and blocked by an angry mob the police would baton charge the shi*e out of them. And rightly so. Whatsmore if seems to me that JB given the plate of poo of economy left to her by FF managed to maintain a reasonably generous social welfare system. in the UK you get 70 a week .. in Greece welfare was cut TO THE BONE.. the unemployed people of tallaght should have been throwing bouquets of flowers at this woman. Although tallaght is a disadvantaged area in many ways, lots of people with get up and go better there lot by educating themselves to a level that they might find work in this horrible jobs market. Another cohort choose to fupp up their lives by uncessarliy burdening themselves and the state with children by the age of 22 and then want someone else to pay for their choices.. nobody owes me or anyone else and living.. be grateful for your social welfare and remember that it is charity from the public purse paid for by taxpayers..

    1. scottser

      If in any other country the deputy prime ministers car was surrounded and blocked by an angry mob the police would baton charge the shi*e out of them.

      harold wilson, john prescott and julia gillard off the top of my head were hit with foodstuffs of various types. i didn’t see any baton charges then. you should be careful what you wish for young diddy, for giving over control to the authorities too easily leads us all down some very dark paths.

        1. scottser

          ‘be grateful for your social welfare and remember it is charity paid for by the taxpayers’

          no, we all pay into a system that protects us when we need it. it’s a bit of an insult to assume everyone on social welfare has never worked and must be grateful for the handout. most people, you’ll find are only getting back what they put in.

          1. scottser

            http://www.inou.ie/

            165,000 out of 360,000 are long term unemployed – less than half. and it would even be unwise to assume all of those 165,000 have never worked.

            and my pub talk is always refer s to the fact(oid)s

          2. Joe the Lion

            Your link did not address the questions asked scottser. Here is some help

            LHS of equation:
            Number of people working times income tax paid = X

            RHS of equation
            Number of people not working times social welfare payments received = Y

            Solve for X

            If X – Y > 0 in perpetuity how for this mathematical breakthrough can you explain how most people are only getting back what they paid in?

            In fact most people are supporting the long term unemployed in the lifestyle to which unfortunately they become all too accustomed

          3. scottser

            The only point i was making was that there are more people who use the welfare state as it was intended and have contributed to it than have not. I have no need for your fancy equations and i don’t really see what you’re trying to prove with them.

    2. scottser

      oh, and it begs the question, if the protesters at the time were in such obvious breach of the law – kidnapping, assault, false imprisonent etc, then why weren’t they arrested at the time when they were in full view of gardai and witnesses?

    3. Don Pidgeoni

      “If in any other country the deputy prime ministers car was surrounded and blocked by an angry mob the police would baton charge the shi*e out of them.”

      Funny how that doesn’t really happen though does it?

    4. Zuppy International

      “be grateful for your social welfare and remember that it is charity from the public purse paid for by taxpayers..”

      Like Garda and Nursing Wages, TD’s expenses and RTE propaganda: it’s all paid for by the people.

      So what’s your point? We should be grateful that DOB is stealing our right to water?

        1. Zuppy International

          You are correct: my right to water is inalienable and no corporation or state has the right to interfere, interrupt, impede or meter my right to water.

          1. Bacchus

            Feel free to take your bucket and go down to the river for your water then. You might even find more parasites in that water than at a “peaceful” protest. If you want treated water delivered to your tap then expect to pay for it.

          2. ReproBertie

            Do you also have an inalienable right to have your excrement removed from your home?

            You are free to avail of all the water that falls from the sky but when it is piped into and out of your home then there’s a bill to pay. Currently the tax take put towards this bill is insufficient to meet the costs of maintaining and improving that system.

          3. Zuppy International

            @ ReproBertie : The bill is paid already. If it wasn’t no water would come from my taps. I object and reject the offer to pay twice for my water.

            If you like, why don’t you organise a march for all those who think paying twice is a good idea.

          4. ReproBertie

            So you don’t bother buying a ticket when you have to travel by bus or train then, right? Because public transport is already paid for, right?

            People who are willing (i wouldn’t say happy) to pay for a decent, functional water and waste water service have indicated their willingness by registering so no march is needed.

            Also, if the bill is paid then “we won’t pay” is clearly a lie.

          5. Zuppy International

            Strawman argument about Public Transport. Relying on misinformation for the numbers who register.

            Have a march to pay twice… unless you’re worried no one will show.

          6. ReproBertie

            “Relying on misinformation for the numbers who register. ”
            Any evidence for that?

            Public transport is not a strawman. It’s perfectly comparable as it is subsidised from central taxation but the user pays to use it.

          7. ReproBertie

            Water falling from the sky is free. Water pumped to and from your home is not. It’s a public service partially funded from central taxation, just like public transport.

            If you prefer we can talk about the health service. It’s often essential for life, is publicly funded and yet users have to pay extra. I presume the “we won’t pay even though we do” crowd are happy to ignore hospital bills on the basis of double taxation, yes?

          8. Paolo

            “You are correct: my right to water is inalienable and no corporation or state has the right to interfere, interrupt, impede or meter my right to water.”

            Says who? Also, who said that water is going to be withheld from ANYONE in this country?

            Why oh why do you think Ireland is soooo special that we shouldn’t have meters measuring our water usage when virtually every other developed and developing country in the world does? Please enlighten us.

          9. Zuppy International

            @ReproBertie

            The water pumped to my house (and your house, and every other house) is already paid for. Stop your strawman arguments and have a march for all those who are willing to pay twice. Then we’ll see if you have a leg to stand on.

          10. ReproBertie

            You keep shouting strawman just so you can ignore the argument because it shows your “we won’t pay even though we already do” to be a farce. Try chanting that at the doctor next time you are presented with a bill.

            Yes, we pay but we don’t pay enough. That’s why the system is a leaky, inefficient mess and the waste water treatment is struggling to cope. We need to pay more. Charging the user is the fairest way to spread the cost.

            Don’t need a march. Those willing to pay have made their willingness clear.

          11. scottser

            reprobertie – i’d say most folks agree that the system is broke and needs to be fixed. most folks would find it reasonable to accept that the taxpayer has funded the water delivery system for yonks and it’s a mess. it is also fair to say the setting up of irish water and communication from the government regarding what it will mean to the consumer has been an unholy mess and everyone’s fears of the utility being sold have not been addressed.

            in hindsight, it would have been better to rally the nation and say – let’s fix the pipes, get water cost down to it’s lowest fundamental cost and then introduce a metered charge which over time would be cheaper than a standing charge. ‘we pay but we don’t pay enough’ is frankly an insult to those who simply do not have it and are being labelled here and elsewhere as ‘parasites’, ‘scum’, ‘knackers’ etc, and the suggestion that causing these people violence is both acceptable and desirable, well maybe you want to live in a society like that, but i don’t.

          12. Zuppy International

            “Don’t need a march. Those willing to pay have made their willingness clear.”

            According to Irish Water, who admit registering people without their consent.

            You need a march because you can’t reply on Irish Wasters to give you the truth.

          13. ReproBertie

            @scottser, talk about strawman. Nowhere did I call any protester anything and nowhere did I suggest I would condone violence against protestors so I don’t know what makes you think I’d be happy to live in a society where protestors are labelled scum and threatened with violence.

            Irish Water is a farce. It’s practically an exercise in how not to set up a public body. It’s yet another example of this government, who once said “Paddy likes to know what’s going on”, being uttery cluless in communicating with the public.

            None of that changes the need for funding in the water system. If FFail hadn’t signed us up to a massive bank debt then we’d have more to spend on the water system but it should not be forgotten that water charges and property tax are the IMF’s way of ensuring a more stable income for the Irish government following the collapse of our economy and the sale of our sovereignty by FFail. This change of focus on the government’s revenue stream is why we heard little or nothing about the water system when the country was awash with money. There is no intention to promote conservation. There is no intention to sell the water system. While initially we will see improvement and upgrades in the water system the ultimate aim of Irish Water is to be a constant and reliable revenue stream for government.

            There are many reasons to protest Irish Water but “we won’t pay” is nonsense. We do pay and we have to pay but ultimately it’s a con and what we pay won’t be going where we expect.

          14. scottser

            reprobertie, grand, it seems we agree on a lot more than we disagree on. and i’ll happily count you out of the name callers, and violence justifiers on here – diddy, diddley eye, jock (probably the same guy) and the like.

            but if you’re going to pay again for your water, grand. just as long as you know the government wants to show a profit on its investment:

            http://www.thejournal.ie/strategic-investment-fund-1932486-Feb2015/

            it wants irish water off the balance sheets and showing a profit asap.

  6. Mcbab

    Find it amusing that part of people’s outage about the arrests is that they happened at 7 am. As if this is the middle of the night for goodness sake!!

    1. scottser

      it’s more the fact they send 6 or 7 gardai around to arrest minors and people with no prior history of violence or aggression. i mean, if this doesn’t bother you then that’s fine, but it bothers me.

      1. Eeejit

        Don’t play dumb.

        You know well enough the reason they send that many Gardaí. I have protest thugs on my street this week, pretending to speak for everyone, intimidating those who want no part of this. Do you think 1 Guard would be able to remove someone from their home when these ‘protesters’ can call upon thugs for backup?

        1. scottser

          are you aware that someone is innocent unless proven guilty? has there been any issue with the detainees resisting arrest so far? why are you reinforcing the ‘sinister fringe’ nonsense trotted out by government?

          1. Nigel

            Are you aware of anyone being found guilty of anything yet? Or of being accused of resisting arrest? They planned for trouble that didn’t arise. I mean, fair enough, this is a bit of a pantomime, but can you really with a straight face say that if word of the arrests had somehow leaked there mightn’t have been a loud and obstructive crowd gathered at the houses to make life difficult? The same way the made life difficult for yer wan in the car and the waterwokers? They figured better to have seven burly Guards and not need ’em than to need ’em and not have ’em. The sinister fringe thing may be a nonsense, but issues of crowd control and potential disturbances and obstructtve behaviour are not.

          2. scottser

            So they plan for trouble by sending 2 squad cars and 6 or 8 gardai. Now when they get there and see nobody there, why do the 6 or 8 gardai have to enter the home of a 14 year old? 4 of them coul have stayed in the car and played it a bit clever and discrete but no, this was a concerted attempt to show force. And i’m disgusted by it.

          3. Nigel

            Because they were playing it safe? Because funding for the ‘What Your Operation Will Look Like On The News And Why It’s The Most Important Factor To Consider’ part of their training was cut? Because a show of force is a valid way of pacifying the people you’re apprehending?

          4. scottser

            ‘a show of force is a valid way of pacifying the people you’re apprehending’

            i’ll leave you to mull that over again, and recognise the many inconsistencies in that statement. and bear in mind you’re talking about the arrest of a 14 year old.

          5. Nigel

            I’m not sure what’s inconsistent about it. I doubt they were worried about the 14 year old. You know perfectly well they weren’t worried about the 14 year old. You know perfectly well that if a gang of anti-water protestors turned up it would have been a different situation entirely. If the extent of your argument is that when a gang of protestors failed to materialise some of the cops should have stayed in the car (which is a fair enough point, really, my earlier comment notwithstanding), then it’s precious little you have to be worried about.

          6. scottser

            precious little indeed for the parents of the lad who was arrested. my fault for showing some sympathy i guess.

  7. Eeejit

    Another thing, I have respect for those who partake in mass protest on the streets, marching to the Dail. I do not respect the same 8-10 men camped on my street this week, ALL DAY, Monday, Tuesday and Today. They clearly have very accommodating jobs OR, wait for it, are on the dole – with little or no intention of seeking work. P**s off.

  8. ReproBertie

    When this protest took place the public order unit of the garda arrived to try and clear a path for the tánaiste’s car. The protestors complained that the arrival of the POU was likely to exacerbate the situation so they were stood down.

    If just the presence of the POU was likely to exacerbate the situation then it’s just as likely that arrests would do the same. Anyone who watched the policiing of the flag protests in Nothern Ireland will have seen the police let protestors do their thing while videoing the protest. In the following days the videos were analysed and dawn arrests were made. This is no different.

    Ex-gardai were interviewed by the Irish Times about the timing of arrests and the manpower invovled and said this:
    Why 7am? “You can contact suspects and simply invite them into a Garda station, either to arrest them for questioning or to put things to them without having to arrest them,” said one officer.“But, in this case, you are dealing with people who are part of a campaign that specialises in demonstrations and some have turned pretty nasty.So if you ask Paul Murphy and the others to be at a Garda station at a set time, you get a big crowd outside a station. And you need to put in place an operation to police it.”

    Why 6 Gardaí? “Six is not a lot if you consider two are doing the actual arresting,” he said. “Four other members is not a massive number to keep people calm if you are delayed at a house and a small crowd starts to gather very quickly. We’ve seen that lots of times with protesters targeting the guys putting in water meters.”

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-insist-murphy-arrest-was-in-line-with-procedures-1.2099017

    I’m no expert but that all seems like reasonable, sensible policing to me.

    While nobody has yet been charged with public order offences following the arrests files have been prepared and sent to the DPP. Charges may or may not follow but that decision will not be influenced by people shouting about political policing and insisting those arrested are innocent of any and all charges despite not knowing who was arrested, why they were arrested or for what they are being investigated.

        1. Zuppy International

          The devil is in the details there ReproBertie,

          You claimed the files HAD been prepared and SENT.

          Yet your evidence claims that files “ARE BEING PREPARED for the Director of Public Prosecutions”.

          Your evidence does not support your claim.

          You fail.

          1. ReproBertie

            Yes, I foolishly assumed that files prepared on Monday would have been sent already but as of yet nobody is reporting anything other than
            “files being prepared for the Director of Public Prosecutions.” – Indo
            “Files will now be sent to the DPP.” – RTÉ
            “files are being prepared for the Director of Public Prosecutions” – Irish Times.

            That technicality aside the point stands. There have been no charges yet but the operation is ongoing and charges may follow.

          2. Zuppy International

            “The operation is ongoing and the disinformation will continue.”

            There, fixed that for you.

          3. ReproBertie

            What disinformation? Are you claiming that files are not being prepared for the DPP or that the arrests never happened?

          4. Zuppy International

            The continuing disinformation that the protesters are a “sinister fringe”. The arrests and reports of POSSIBLE charges that MAY be filed are that disinformation.

          5. Zuppy International

            I doubt it.

            Will Irish Wasters continue to pull numbers out of their arse for years?

            Signs point to yes.

          6. Nigel

            ‘You claimed the files HAD been prepared and SENT.’

            Great Scott, Zuppy, you’ve got ’em on the run now!

          7. Zuppy International

            You love your government propaganda don’t you RepoBertie?

            Why do you think DOB is circling the people’s water resource? Do you really believe that privatisation is not on the agenda? If you do you’re either a fool of a shill.

            There are no penalties at the moment because there are no bills at the moment yet the penalties are provided for within the unlawful actions of the “government”.

            You need a march to prove your claim that people want to pay twice. I will not accept the word of Irish Waters who admit to registering people against their will and without their consent.

          8. ReproBertie

            Name calling won’t change that you have failed yet again to provide evidence to back up your fear-mongering propaganda of theft/privatiastion or unlawful menace.

            Water charges and property tax were introduced under the EU-ECB-IMF bailout as a more stable revenue stream than the stamp duty that had funded the boom and led to the bust. Introducing a new reliable revenue stream and then privatising that revenue stream makes no economic sense. You have nothing to back up your fear mongering propaganda beyond more fear mongering propaganda with an extra helping of name calling.

  9. Paolo

    There are people in this country who have lost loved ones because of the state of the health service. Losing a loved one due to a budget decision by the HSE or the Department of Health is a pretty big deal. Now, I don’t see those people out trying to disrupt the democratic system in this country. If I did, I would probably have a lot of sympathy for them although they would very quickly bring the country to a halt.

    These people protesting over water have a right to do so but they do not have a right to protest the way they are protesting. It is completely out of proportion to the issue at hand. Get some perspective please.

    1. Zuppy International

      Somebody is trying to steal our right to water which is actually and symbolically our right to life.

      In the face of this enormous, unwarranted and unlawful threat I think the people’s response has been remarkably restrained.

      1. ReproBertie

        “Somebody is trying to steal our right to water”

        If you have evidence of a crime, or of a conspiracy to commit a crime, I suggest you report it to the gardaí.

        The government, via Irish Water, intend to give water away for free which is the opposite of stealing.

        1. Zuppy International

          Have you not being paying attention ReproBertire?

          The state and Irish Wasters are using the Guards as their corporate enforcers. The Guards are accessories to the theft.

          The State is providing our money to Irish Wasters so they can bankroll the theft – they seek commercial profit from our right to life.

          The people say no. The state ignores them. They are acting outside the law and their own constitution.

          1. ReproBertie

            Not so much the sinister fringe as the lunatic fringe. I just checked my taps and there was water. I also checked my rain barrel and that was full. Where’s the theft?

          2. Zuppy International

            Of course the water is there: you’ve paid for it. The scam is they want to make you pay for it twice. When the forces of the state use duress to ignore the will of the people then its a scam with menace.

          3. ReproBertie

            So they’re not stealing it.

            We’ve been over the whole need to pay more thing and the parallels with health, education and public transport so I’ll not waste my time going into it again.

            As it stands there are no penalties for non-payment which flies in the face of your scam with menace nonsense.

          4. Zuppy International

            Your strawman arguments have established nothing.

            If you’ve ever seen Irish Wasters and their corporate enforcers in action you’ll know menace is their MO.

          5. Zuppy International

            I accept that intended and attempted theft of our right to water by Edna and his conies in Irish Wasters has been frustrated by the noble and lawful actions of the people.

            “no penalties for non-payment”
            Are you pushing state propaganda now? Or do you really believe the promises of a drunken parliament?

          6. Zuppy International

            There are currently no penalties for refusing to participate in the scam of paying for water twice. Yet the unlawful menace of Irish Wasters and their corporate enforces continues on the streets. Why?

          7. ReproBertie

            So we’ve established that there is no theft and that I was speaking the truth, not pushing propaganda, about there being no penalties.

            Now do you have any evidence of illegality to back up your “unlawful menace” claim?

          8. ReproBertie

            A youtube video? That was insufficient evidence for you when it came to Charlie Hebdo so do you have any actual evidence as opposed to a misleading, selective video clip?

            As asn aside, is that the video of the woman (I’m not watching YouTube in work) who later said that she didn’t hit the bollard because a garda stepped between her and it? If so it doesn’t even show what it claims to show.

          9. Zuppy International

            How desperate things must be in the towers of Irish Wasters that RepoBertie now seeks to use my own philosophy against me. Ha!

            So let’s accept your position that this video is not real. The symbolism within the video still has meaning.

            To wit: The state’s corporate enforcers will violently trample over the lawful rights of people on the public highway in order to enforce the lesser right’s of a clown in a suit who is traveling in a motor vehicle between meetings of his criminal cabal, even as that clown’s responsibility is to serve the people whose rights the state continues to trample upon.

            That’s intent to menace by the state, as is the continuing deployment of multiple squad cars to arrest children and political activists.

          10. Diddley Aye

            Just checking in Zuppy. Do you still think that french policeman wasn’t actually shot in the head as he lay on the ground and that its all part of a worldwide media conspiracy.
            Let us know soonest please cos I’m warming to you and I think you may be the The One who will defend us against Irish policeman not throwing women into bollards.

          11. ReproBertie

            So no theft, no penalties and now nothing more than symbolic evidence of unlawful menace?

            You really are tearing your conspiracy to pieces. Keep it up.

          12. Zuppy International

            The theft is the handing over of our water to a transitional semi-state entity with the inevitable privatisation of that common good to come (there is provision for same within the legislation). Thus our right to water will become subject to the commercial imperative of a commercial corporation that will exist to make a profit, not provide a service. Thus the value of this natural resource will be handed over to a private entity without the consent of the people. This is stealing.

            According to the citizen’s information website there will be penalties for non-payment including: “Provision [to] be made for a statutory charge on property if bills/penalties remain unpaid. For private tenants who do not pay, legislation is planned to enable landlords to withhold water charge arrears from the tenant’s deposit and pay them to Irish Water. Local authorities will also be obliged to recover arrears from their tenants and pay them to Irish Water.”

            So, RepoBertie, you seem to be incorrect about there being no penalties for non-payment.

            Symbolic violence (even the hoax stuff) has real world consequences on the psychology of a population: witness the “Je Suis Charlie” meme after that recent Paris non-sense, and the so-called ‘Patriot Act’ after 9-11. Symbolic Violence is incredibly effective which is why all states manipulate fear through terrorism.

            Now, when are you having that March for all those who want to pay twice?

          13. ReproBertie

            “our right to water will become subject to the commercial imperative of a commercial corporation ”
            Any evidence for your soothsaying powers? You certainly have no evidence of a theft.

            “there will be penalties for non-payment”
            But currently there are not.

            Musings on symbolic violence is not evidence of unlawful menace.

            As I’ve said several times, there is no need for a march as those willing to pay have demonstrated their willingness.

          14. Zuppy International

            Ok RepoBertie, let me rephrase:

            Your decision to willfully ignore the signs of the intended privatisation of the people’s water (DOB on the case, water meters for every house, €2 billion spent on a billing system before any attempt to fix any leaks, the reckless behaviour and intimidation of residents by Irish Wasters and their corporate enforcers who seek to install waters at all costs and ignoring all objections, the provision for privatisation within the legislation, the issuing of shares in Irish Water) is either a foolish oversight on your part OR you are a paid agent of disinformation.

            If neither of these positions are true then I suggest you immediately set about organising a public demonstration for all those who wish to pay twice.

            Failing that public demonstration you have no standing or authority to argue that the rest of us should pay twice for our water.

          15. Zuppy International

            The EU-ECB-IMF ? Is that your latest excuse?

            They’re also a bunch of thieves and criminal banksters. You think because they mandate the theft of our water for private profit then everything is grand? Is this another foolish oversight on your part? Or another deliberate distraction?

            Either way, where’s your public demonstration in favour of those criminals and their policy of making us pay twice for water?

            Oh that’s right, there isn’t one.

        2. ReproBertie

          So I’m either a paid agent of the grand conspiracy or I’m not seeing the grand conspiracy?

          And this because you can’t provide a shred of evidence for the grand conspiracy beyond the involvement of a company that a billionaire owns some shares in. All while you completely ignore water meters and charges being a condition of the EU-ECB-IMF bailout with the intent to provide a steady and constant revenue stream for the state.

          That peril you threatened me with is looking pretty attractive.

          1. Zuppy International

            The EU-ECB-IMF ? Is that your latest excuse?

            They’re also a bunch of thieves and criminal banksters. You think because they mandate the theft of our water for private profit then everything is grand? Is this another foolish oversight on your part? Or another deliberate distraction?

            Either way, where’s your public demonstration in favour of those criminals and their policy of making us pay twice for water?

            Oh that’s right, there isn’t one.

          2. ReproBertie

            Oh you have evidence of theft now? Let’s see it. You can add in the evidence of it being done for private profit while you’re at it.

            The troika deal is a fact, not an excuse.

          3. Zuppy Intewrnational

            Now you’re being deliberately disingenuous: Which part of ‘our water is being handed over to a commercial-for-profit-corporation without the consent of the people’ do you not understand?

            Until you have a public demonstration for all those in favour paying twice for our water then you have no further standing in this discussion.

          4. ReproBertie

            “Which part of ‘our water is being handed over to a commercial-for-profit-corporation without the consent of the people’ do you not understand?”

            The part where you claim this but have nothing more than paranoid, fear-mongering propaganda to back up the claim.

          5. Zuppy International

            And those shares can then be alienated (sold) after another midnight session in the drunken parliament to remove all presence to ‘plebisite’ followed a quick trip to the park where it’s signed off by the hobbit.

            If you think it won’t happen I have three words for you: Anglo Irish Bank.

    2. Sinabhfuil

      Exactly, Paolo. There’s a lot of drama-queening and noticeboxing going on in these protests. I don’t want to pay a quango for water either – I want the infrastructure owned and fixed by the State, and it’s none of the Troika’s business to make a direction based on their right-wing political ethos saying this should change.
      But the state of health, education and housing, the accelerated greed of landlords untrammelled by any kind of rental control – and the fact of this infestation of quangos existing – that’s what should be in question, and approached without all this drama.

    1. scottser

      i would have been the first to p1ss on thatcher’s grave but at least she wasn’t two-faced, you knew exactly where you stood. unfortunately that was the same level as the sh1te on her shoes.

  10. Parochial Central

    These “dawn raids” will turn parts of Dublin into “no go areas” for @Labour supporters and candidates. So, keep them up.

  11. Parochial Central

    Surprised that Burton, the Minister for Homelessness, and her flying monkey entourage of Brophy et al did not concoct some political grandstand event to have people arrested for using homophobic slurs and throw the “hate speech” charge at them. Right up @Labour’s alley. Oh, right. That’s next week. #pantipoliticalpolicing

    Better watch out for the Twitter arrests soon.

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