Environment Minister Alan Kelly

“I’m not going to pour cold water on it for the simple reason that is this, from an equity and a fairness point of view, you know we’ve 66-67% of people who have signed up and that needs to be respected.”

Environment Minister Alan Kelly on Claire Byrne Live on RTÉ One last night on taking unpaid water charges from peoples’ wages or social welfare payments.


Government may deduct water charges from income (RTÉ)

(Photocall Ireland)

90 thoughts on “So Macho

  1. JimmytheHead

    Well done Alan for sticking to your principles, I hope its worth betraying your country and being hated by everyone that knows you. Im sure your 6 figure pension will be worth it

    1. Soundings

      Ah now, Alan was helicoptering the cash into his constituency yesterday – €10m in Leader funds for Tipperary. Take that Michael Lowry, there’s a premium gombeen in town!

      1. Joe the Lion

        There’s actually fierce rivalry between them for gombeenism down there – they’re constantly trying to outdo each other on fixshing the roads

      2. Otis Blue

        Apparently the hoor is called Enda Kelly by his own shower.

        Spinning away on the LEADER funds too which are significantly reduced in Tipp and elsewhere but are presented as a good news story. Like hell it is. Just more pork for County Councillors.

    2. All the good ones fly south for winter

      A new low. Well done. If you go deep enough you’ll eventually hit water.

    3. Stumpy

      You’ve obviously never been within an asses’ roar of a riot. They’re not pleasant. Grow up.

      1. Stumpy

        Nah, you haven’t. Also – ‘When all else fails we must attempt the ridiculous no matter how unlikely it is.’ What?

      2. scottser

        i’ve said it before and i’ll say it again – it’d only cost a few mill in hired mercenaries to organise a coup. i have a new constitution written and all, available to download as a pdf.

      3. Drogg

        Hah scores you could make a deal with yer mercenary friends that once you take power you will bring in a new mercenary tax that’ll be taken out of peoples wages and payed to them in perpetuity for the rest of there lives, sort of like the pension deal the ex-TD’s get.

      4. Drogg

        And don’t forget to sign up your coup for a Facebook page early, or you might end up like Renua.

      5. scottser

        lads, ye can download the app – it’s called ‘re-coup-a’
        bullet points – love it :)

  2. Waffle

    Bit of sense prevails.

    66% of the population shouldn’t be paying for the minority to waste our resources.
    We’re all in this together.

    1. donkey_kong

      waffle, will the 66% pay?
      How is that 66% derived? does it include the (admittedly idiotic) “no contract/ no consent” crew and others who defaced there application?
      I’d say it’s a lot lower and we’ll see who actually pays.

      I’m not paying or registering.

      1. ex pat

        Thank you; your lost conservation grant, penalties and interest will cut the deficit for the rest of us.

  3. bisted

    …despite all his bluster and Hoganesque bullying, Alan Kelly seems seriously out of his depth.

  4. Gavin

    66% ahh here… considering they admitted that contracts returned with “go on out of that ” written on them or covered in human excrement are being included in that number, I’d call that stretching it.

  5. 15 cents

    the bully tactics are unbelievable.. and surely illegal? People who did send back defaced forms got registered anyway, even though nothing was filled out .. and now they’ll go dip directly into our wages/benefits and just take the money? its completely outrageous. Every day this government show what contempt they have for the people they are meant to be working for .. but they dont work for us .. they just see us as pinatas that they bash to get more n more money out of.

    1. scottser

      they can’t just take it. that would be a revenue function, and this is not a tax – it’s a utility charge.

  6. Jay to the Sea

    This is pretty bizarre. If the money is taken at source, why don’t they just call it as it is – a new tax…

  7. Atticus

    “If” 66% of the homes ends up paying well then he might have a case for what he’s saying. Otherwise he’s doing a great job in ensuring that his party don’t get re-elected.

    1. ex pat

      They will get re-elected; there is no alternative when you consider the bust came from FF and the policies of SF and the fringe lefties are no different to Berties other than them not having a tent at Galway.

      Kelly is a breath of fresh air because he doesn’t do bull’s hit, simply outlined people will be forced to pay and that he is looking at the property market.

      His blunt and direct style is as far from the spin that buggered the country in the first place.

      1. Joe the Lion

        TINA – what a load of nonsense

        AS for Kelly being blunt etc – he’s a sock puppet saying what the civil servants instruct him to

  8. Talismania!

    Talk is cheap – would the government take the chance of trying to put this in place, if for example the high court could strike it down as unconstitutional?

    Either way, if they want to see a tenfold increase in water protesters, put it on everyone’s paycheck, monthly, in black and white, next to the property tax.

  9. Praetorian.

    I thought getting rid of that arrogant pox Rabbite was the end of Labours bully boys but then arrived this thing…Comical Ali Kelly.
    Christ he’s in for some fall…and for such a young guy he really should’ve had more cop.

    1. Drogg

      It is rumoured that Rabbite is to take over for George Hook on newstalk. I almost puked when i heard it.

  10. Dubloony

    Biggest lie in Irish life for decades is that some else will always pay.
    Its caught up with us big time and if we want services we expect in the 21st century, citizens do need to pay for them according to their usage and ability to pay. Like EVERY other OECD country.

    As for the “we paid already” argument – well, I paid my electricity bill last month, I used more since so guess what, I’m going to pay the next bill for it.
    For the protesters coming up on trains – €5 billion was spent by CIE in infrastructure upgrade during the boom and you still paid for the ticket. Didn’t hear anyone whining about that.

    But water, an absolute basic for life, protesters don’t give a damn about it. They don’t care that parts of this country’s system is broken, infested with e.coli and undrinkable. They have no plan, no working alternative.

    Sick of it at this stage.

    1. Drogg

      Dubloony there is plenty of places they could start making cuts like their own pensions and advisors pay and expenses. We pay property tax, motor tax and paye which all put huge sums into what should be paying for the water but a lot of it is being diverted. Irish water has spent at in its first few months 160 million on consultants 7.5million on an ad campaign to tell you how water works and performance bonuses to all its staff who have to be the worst performing semi state in history. So why isn’t all that money being put to use fixing the dated water system? Why did this government decide to pay junior bondholders billions which would have covered the updating of the entire water system 10 times over and as for saying its about conservation is a load of horse manure Irish people don’t actually use that much water as the equal to what people are using is leaking out of the system. I don’t have the money to pay any more tax and even if i did i have cut enough its time for those at the top to cut back, I am not paying.

      1. Dubloony

        I fully accept that the set up of Irish water was an organisational mess, bonuses a big mistake to people who hadn’t delivered anything of value yet.
        It should be under full PAC scrutiny.

        Any organisation that has to absorb all county and city councils water organisations is going to cost.
        Its a once off cost. Consultants work for 1-2 years on a project and the they are gone once the set up phase is over. They are not lifetime employees, they are specialists hired to do a specific job. That’s why they cost.

        Like a lot of people, I don’t pay motor tax, I don’t have a car. General taxes pay for whole government and services to function. Like welfare, schools, hospitals, gardai, and the rest of it.
        Judging by the comments by many people, they do need to actually understand how potable water water is produced. It is complex, it does involve engineering, science and plumbing and needs to be right 24×7.

        If people can’t afford to pay (max price for ext few years €60 for single, €160 for couple all including kids) then the issue is’t water but abject poverty. That needs to be seriously tackled.

        The bill being discussed by Kelly will differentiate between those who can’t and those who won’t pay.

        1. Drogg

          Bollox going by labours recent bills they will probably consider my mortgage as a luxury payment and the their water charge comes first.

          1. ex pat

            Whats going to pay for the €800m abolition?

            Just remember that Paul Murphy and Mary Boo Hoo will not pay for your lost conservation grant, penalties and interest when the charges stick.

          2. Drogg

            Ha ha ha i love how you automatically assume i support AAA or SF but the problem FG and Labour have with these water charges is its not just the ring groups that are not planning on paying but middle Ireland has had enough. So you keep dreaming the charge will stick but i can wait to see the legal debacle when they try to deduct a service charge from peoples wages a service charge that they legally can not turn off.

          3. ex pat

            Middle Ireland got a tax cut of €386 this year versus the €160 maximum charge and will get another tax cut this year; probably in the same region leaving people €500-€600 a year better off than pre-water charge announcements.

            If the charge was in isolation opposition based on ‘last straw’ would be reasonable; however it is not in isolation; it is a token charge to ensure that funds are ring fenced to invest in the worst water system in Northern Europe due to it being free and funds diverted elsewhere.

            Like it or not what Kelly is doing is ensuring that disinvestment in water services ends and ends now.

          4. Drogg

            Really i didn’t get no tax cut and if you compare the €386 against the USC and the property tax we are now paying it is a drop in the water. The tax cuts this year benefited few and are nothing more then pre-election enticements.

          5. JC

            Any facts there ex Pat to back up your ‘worst water system in Europe’ comment ?

            Or is that just Mantra which is entirely unsubstantiated

          6. Atticus

            “Middle Ireland got a tax cut of €386 this year versus the €160 maximum charge and will get another tax cut this year; probably in the same region leaving people €500-€600 a year better off than pre-water charge announcements.

            If the charge was in isolation opposition based on ‘last straw’ would be reasonable; however it is not in isolation; it is a token charge to ensure that funds are ring fenced to invest in the worst water system in Northern Europe due to it being free and funds diverted elsewhere.

            Like it or not what Kelly is doing is ensuring that disinvestment in water services ends and ends now.”

            Fair play to your innocence if you believe in the pre election tax cuts will stick. They’ll be taken back post election, and if people were foolish enough to accept the water charge that cost will sky-rocket soon enough too.

      2. Colin

        You clearly have absolutely no idea of the scale of numbers here.

        Say we take 30 ministers and say they are on €100k per year. Tomorrow, lets cut that to €50k. So, looking ahead for 10 years, we would save:

        €50k * 30 Ministers * 10 years = €15,000,000

        The office I work in has about 1000 members of staff. Lets assume they are all on €32k per year (They aren’t, there are people on a lot more) So, one years payroll:

        €32k * 1000 = €32,000,0000

        Or to put that another way, €876,712 per day for a private company. So in 17 days, its costs the same amount of money to run this office as you will save in 10 years by cutting the 30 ministers by 50%. In 8 days, we will have spent irish Waters ad campaign to just pay the staff (No other overheads)

        If you genuinely believe by taxing the ‘upper crust’ a little more and asking ministers to cut their salary you are going to pay for water infrastructure, you are sorely mistaken.

        We need to pay for it somewhere, people are just miffed as they have been getting it for free all these years. Its the same when a road is free parking only one day to turn up and the council have put a meter on it. You’re only annoyed as it was once free but never had an issue paying everywhere else.

        1. Atticus

          It hasn’t been free, it has been paid from general taxation. Now, whether that has been enough (which it clearly hasn’t) is another issue, but it certainly hasn’t been free.

        2. Drogg

          Colin to fix the current water issues we need 1.2 billion not including the the other actual costs of running water each year. But while we normal citizens are already struggling paying 2 extra taxes ministers are still living above their means and it is very hard to take austerity measures from a load of overweight morons who still get to eat their cake so a cut would be a fair gesture. Like you know not just their 50K pay but their 30 – 50k a year in expenses or their constant breaking of wage caps to paying their advisors and consultants over 100k a year stuff like that and thats not even including their insanely over payed pensions. Adding 1% onto the top rate of tax would pay for the complete revival of irish water and then some so yeah i do think thats a good idea maybe if we had a taoiseach with some balls and not some worm who is afraid of tv interviews he would address the nation and ask the 1% to make that sacrifice, pay that 1% for the good of the nation. Or maybe if they hadn’t payed billions to junior bondholders who had absolutely no right to be payed, they gambled and they lost boo hoo, that we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place.

        1. ex pat

          Totally agree, losing your seat is an occupational hazard; if you don’t like the risk then don’t stand for election.

          Nothing is more nauseating than thinking of Biffo collecting a pension from scare resources in his 50’s.

          1. Mr. Snrub

            I’d say it just goes straight into his bank account though. It wouldn’t be as nauseating as I’d pictured it.

    2. Atticus

      The new charge is nothing to do with usage. It’s just a new tax and an equitable one at that. A person on minimum wage has to pay the same as someone earning hundreds of thousands.

      1. ReproBertie

        The new charge is supposed to be based on usage but the installation of water meters, to facilitate a usage based charge, has been delayed. The set charge is a temporary measure until the meters are installed.

        A person on minimum wage has no entitlement to have their water usage paid for by someone earning €5 an hour more.

        1. Atticus

          Water Meters are a red herring. The bulk of the cost for water treatment is the maintenance and wages etc. They just worked out the running costs and divided it by the amount of households to get a figure that everyone had to pay.

          I’ve no real problem paying for water. I just think it’s unfair to make everybody pay the same amount for the set up of the company, especially given the nature of how the company was set up.

          1. ex pat

            If you use less than your allowance then you will receive a rebate in addition to your conservation grant.

  11. Nate Dogg

    Great news.

    I’ve a private supply which I’m paying for on top of rapacious income and motor tax.

    I’m sick of subsidising urban dwellers who get much better public services on top of free water.

    Your capacity for self delusion is only matched by your self regard.

    1. Praetorian.

      Fupp you pal.Im a rural dweller on mains in supply.I wont be paying.
      My motor tax pays for it,my property tax is supposed to be paying for it,my Phil Hogan charge was supposed to go towards it,my USC is meant to go towards it.
      Again…fupp you.

      1. Nate Dogg

        So I should pay for you?

        No man, property tax pays for other services. Just like it does in normal countries. Nothing normal about using motor tax to pay for water

        I have to laugh at the pseudo socialists here. Happy to route MNC profits through Ireland to pay for everything while bleeilding the rest of the EU dry.

        BTW fupp you too. And your mother.

        1. Praetorian.

          When you bought your pile in the woods you made the decision to stay off mains water and so opted to pay for your own supply…cry me a river.
          Go and tell your mother you know your father now.

          1. Nate Dogg

            Yeah I did. (And I did so to get away from skobes who benefit from my taxes in a multitude of ways not just the free water(

            That doesn’t change the fact that the
            “We already pay” line is illogical, false, dishonest, self serving. Its accounting Greek style.

            Put it another way if I were a non resident with a holiday home on the main I’d be getting free water paid for by someone else.

            The fairest way is to charge those who use services. And use the social welfare system to help those who can’t afford it.

  12. Frilly Keane

    I don’t want no 7 stone weakling
    Or a boy who think he’s a girl

    Suits the labour party, they could use it during the campaign. I can see and hear the vans trolling around the country plastered in election posters and swinging along to Sinetta

    Did Moynes pick the thread tune

  13. YourNan

    I’d happily go house to house breaking thumbs of all these “won’t pay” scumbags, pay for something once in your life tracksuit neanderthals.

    1. TheDude

      Hi Alan. Working hard on message being the Charles Atlas bully boy this week I see. How about you reduce the draconian taxes I pay by cutting off subventions to Irish Gravy from Motor Tax (66% of take), Property Tax (149M) etc and then Ill pay. Looking forward to those 1k+ bills from 2020 onwards!

    2. Drogg

      Ha ha ha i can just imagine YourNan now sitting behind his keyboard typing furiously that i will break our scumbag tracksuit wearing fingers but only after he beats myself off to two fat middle age men porking each other.

    3. phill sheehy

      your nan, channel that anger at denis o brien. billionaire tax exile who hoovers up YOUR taxes in multiple ways. 1 for example he has the contact to supply all government, state, garda and other service petrol, which is paid for out of our taxes. Denis profits from our taxes and pays no tax himself, some tracsuit no payer is dodging 160 per year. Denis is TAKING millions per year from our pockets and giving nothing back.

  14. gertrude

    alan typically isn’t too good with figues, stephen donnelly handed him his arse the last time he tried playing the numbers game. donnelly proved using primary level maths that collecting money for irish water would actually cost more than it would bring in. the 66% figure “of people” is very questionable. alan didn’t know how many households were in the country, so it would be interesting to know how the figure was arrived at, or whether it was pulled out of his arse.

  15. Mr. T.

    He’s too big for his boots this big fish in a small party in a junior coalition with an extremely unpopular party.

    Kelly is being used to push water charges through and his political career will end whether he succeeds or not. He obviously already has plans made for after the next GE in case he’s out. It’s very possible those plans have something to do with private enterprise related to water treatment or delivery.

    He’ll probably do a Harney on it.

    1. ex pat

      He will be re-elected, the shift to a 5 seat constituency leaves Mattie exposed; only certainty is Lowry will top the poll and FG and FF will each take one seat; last 2 seats will be fought out between Kelly, FG and FF.

  16. Disasta

    My last comment didnt work.

    I rented last year, moved to another rented place this year, never received any sign up letter at all.

    What’s the deal? Does the landloard pay and I give him money or what? Am I missing out on something by not signing something?

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