We Are The 30%

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Socialist Party TDs Ruth Coppinger and Paul Murphy outside Irish Water HQ in May

Irish Water has claimed 70% of households (1.32 million people) have registered with them.

However…

Paul Murphy TD writes:

What they’re not telling you is two key things:

1. They have refused to give the payment figures after we asked for them six different ways (Enda Kenny, Irish Water briefing, Richard Bruton, Alan Kelly, FOI request, FOI appeal). Yet now they’re happy to give out their registration figures, in advance of the registration deadline. What about the “commercial sensitivity” that they cited as an excuse not to give the payment figures? Clearly the payment levels are a lot lower than 70%

2. On 19 March, they claimed that 1.23 million people have signed up. So three months have passed, how many ads have played on RTE and elsewhere suggesting you’ll get free money if you sign up? Yet only an extra 90,000 have signed up. How much have they spent on propaganda for each of those 90,000 – €100 each maybe for the ads?

We’re winning, they’re scared. Don’t buy the propaganda – spread the truth and mass non-payment will sink Irish Water.

FIGHT!

Paul Murphy (Facebook)

Murphy claims ‘big victory’ for anti-water campaign imminent (BreakingNews.ie)

 

89 thoughts on “We Are The 30%

          1. Sue

            I suppose my point was, that the amount of people that have registered doesn’t reflect the amount of people that are going to pay.

          1. Clampers Outside!

            I love that one, so, let’s raise car tax to cover costs of upgrade… thank fupp I dont drive, free water!

            *runs tap… without a plug… looks on mischievously… mumbling to self… “gurgle my precious, gurgle down the plug hole my precious… ’cause I’m not paying, ’cause I don’t drive!!! MUHAWHAWHAWHAWHAWHAHAW !!!!!” *

      1. Custo

        Revenue can’t collect on behalf of a utlilty company. They shot themselves in the foot in that regard by not calling it a tax.

  1. Sue

    Because I’m a tenant. I suspect there’s a lot of registered people who don’t intend to pay.

    1. Fergus the magic postman

      Yes. I haven’t been able to wipe the smile off my face since dealing with Irish Water. It was such a pleasurable experience. If I had known it was going to give me so much joy, I would have registered and paid ages ago.

  2. Dubloony

    Winning? What is their detailed engineering plan for upgrading a very broken system then?
    Going back to the way it was is not an option.

    Keeping people’s water sub-par is not winning.
    So peed off with these idiots at this stage.

    and yes, sitserv saga does need to be investigated.

    1. Zuppy International

      Why not fix the pipes then? Instead the lunatics are building a billing system that no one wants and will barely pay for itself.

        1. Anomanomanom

          Of course you can. A water system upgrade tax I’d have paid happily (even if it was double my “bill”) but I won’t pay an irish water bill. It’s a monster quango and it’ll implode eventually just like fas.

  3. edalicious

    “How much have they spent on propaganda for each of those 90,000 – €100 each maybe for the ads?”

    Am I reading this wrong or is he implying that €9,000,000 has been spent on the ad campaign? That seems a bit high. Just a tad, like.

  4. Starina

    they are also counting blank forms sent back as consent to register. so their registration figure is very faulty

  5. Rob_G

    If the economy keeps doing reasonably well and Fine Gael are reelected, there will probably be a change in policy as regards people not registering/paying: Irish Water will bring a few people to court, they will receive fines, and compliance will rise to close to 100%.

    AAA/PBP, the Continuity Socialist Party or whatever they are calling themselves can then find some other service that people enjoy the benefit of but don’t care to pay for to protest about.

      1. Rob_G

        Really? Who would that be?

        Not the taxpayer, certainly, we’ve been borrowing about €10bn a year to meet current expenditure for the last few years. No-one likes paying taxes, but i think it’s more equitable to charge people directly for the services that they use, rather than raising the marginal rates of tax and screwing the PAYE employees yet again.

        1. nellyb

          Your logic is decoupled from the fact that tax money and borrowed money (on our behalf) are being wasted or for the very least mismanaged. Your unspoken premise: it is not. Anything past that point is a blah-blah.

          1. Miko

            Ah, the getout clause for everything. Until the entire government is 100% efficient you can decide at will what taxes or charges you don’t want to pay for. Since it’s impossible for any entity of any scale let alone a state to be 100% efficient it means you don’t have to pay for anything really. The wonder is why people pay their electricity bills when the ESB is hardly a paradigm of efficiency? Unless of course it’s another dishonest argument from the freeloader class….

        2. ahjayzis

          Vat and Motor Tax pay for water services – so everyone, yep.

          We don’t build new schools by charging the families that use them a flat annual charge for construction costs.

          We don’t renovate hospitals by charging the patients and their families that use them a flat annual charge for refurb costs.

          We shouldn’t charge everyone in the country a flat tax to fund a new water system.
          Capital projects – and this IS a capital project – should be paid for like we pay most other state expenditures, progressive taxation – the principle that you pay according to your means.

          I have zero objection to paying for the actual water I use, and I do, through VAT and Motor Tax, I’m happy for that to be converted (not ADDED TO) to a metered charge – but that’s not the case in Ireland, this is a flat tax levied on everyone, regardless of income, regardless even of the amount of water you use to fund what is a CONSTRUCTION PROJECT.

          1. Miko

            It’s mostly a maintenance project. That’s where we went wrong. And secondly the principle of charging by usage IS progressive. I don’t see you arguing for a flat electricity charge…

  6. sheesh

    Maybe they’re also too ashamed to admit they haven’t sent half the bills out yet. Mine only arrived yesterday after I called them.
    I’m a tenant and paying only because it’s in my lease agreement. They are so incompetent it’d be laughable if it weren’t so worrying

    1. Sue

      I’m also a tenant, I’ve been sent two bills for the flat AND a bill for the building as a whole with three different account numbers on them. I don’t trust them with payment details.

    2. Miko

      They are sending out the bills gradually so their is timer service can address any queries rather then trying to answer everyone at once. Of course – if IW sent out all the bills at once they would be blamed for not being able to handle every call at once. It’s great that IW have far more competent people working for them then incompetents like yourself…

        1. ABM's Bloodied Underwear

          Than, not then.

          What are you saying about someone else’s incompetence?

    1. Jonotti

      This. We pay 6 times over already. We pay for drink which is pissed out, evaporates , falls as rain and is then sold back to us.

  7. popeyedol

    Provide the real figures – call their bluff, case closed…otherwise carry on spinning

    1. Dubloony

      Just lets say 25% people pay. And the anti- water charges protest win.

      How do they intend fixing the very broken water system that we have? How do they intend increasing capacity to create potable water for an increasing population?

          1. Zuppy International

            Are you relying on figures published by those lying treasonous bastards known as the Irish state? How much do they pay you for pushing their lies?

            Everything is already paid for under a draconian tax regime. Remove the odious banking debt and the notional entity that is the Irish state would actually make a profit. Instead all this wealth is transferred into the pockets of the select few with the “right” connections.

          2. Miko

            Remove the banking debt and we still have a huge multibillion deficit because we spend vastly more on services such as water then we take in tax. Preposterous lies by delusionals who would turn this state into Greece if they could…

        1. Dubloony

          Eh, no,its not.
          Its jsut about maintained but not enough to invest in the infrastructure required.

      1. 15 cents

        whos ever complained about our water system? its never been an issue. we have it in abundance. and its not running out. also, WE PAY FOR IT ALREADY! so wheres that money been going to? you complete dip$h!t

        1. ReproBertie

          So you’re never heard of water shortages or undrinkable tap water? Ever come across mention of leaky pipes?

          Just because all’s fine and dandy with you doesn’t mean the rest of the country is in the same happy situation.

          1. ABM's Bloodied Underwear

            Why was it originally going to be the most expensive charges in Europe?
            Why was there another layer of bureaucracy added on top of the existing system?
            Why the need for a massive quango who first and foremost got their massive wages and perks setup first?

            It’s a scam from start to finish. Throw your money away if you want and then mind your own business.

          2. ReproBertie

            Of course it’s a scam. It’s being set up, alongside the property tax, to provide a regular, reliable revenue stream for government to remove the reliance on construction related taxes that funded the boom and led to the bust. This is not a theory, this is what the Troika came in to do. Of course admitting that would mean admitting that the privitasation bogeyman is a nonsense so the anti-water charges brigade say nothing about it.

            None of that means we don’t have a faulty, leaky, inefficient water system which is not fit for purpose.

      2. ahjayzis

        Why is that a difficult question?

        How did we build the road system? How do we build schools? How do we build hospitals?

        It’s an old-fashioned notion called progressive taxation, in place of a flat tax, regardless of the amount of water you use, regardless of your income that exists today.

        Convert the portion of VAT and Motor Tax currently used to fund water to a metered charge (a proper metered charge!) to pay for water supply.

        Use taxation and the borrowing against it to fund the refurbishment of the network.

  8. Brian S

    I didnt register, my landlord provided IW with name, as he is entitled to do to prove he is not the resident of the house. I got one letter from IW asking me to register, and a bill saying I wasnt registered and I would get a €100 if i did. I wont be paying or registering, they can happily take me to court along with the thousands of other people if that is their long term plan, but it would be very easy to make their trip to court very difficult by seeking discovery for anything you could think of just to get some adjournments in the case, if everyone did that it would bring the court system to its knees, if it wasnt already with tens of thousands of cases being brought by IW.

    1. Francesco

      You don’t get 100euro either, you get a voucher to put against plumbers bills for a few specific jobs that they make you pay for.

      1. Brian S

        All their documents state that if you register by June 30th you get the dsp €100 grant.

        As an unmetered “customer” I was also billed at €64. As a 2 person household who are out of the house between 7.30am and 7pm do 2 clothes washes a week, dishwasher on twice a week and a few showers there’s no way we would use that much in 3 months. Some people are reporting being metered at €25-€35 with similar usage to us. So there’s another reason I’m not paying!

  9. Seriously

    People really see this as a will pay/wont pay, black and white issue.

    I haven’t registered but I have been sent a bill which I don’t intend to pay. This does not mean that I am totally against paying for water.

    I would be happy enough to pay if the money was being paid to the local council (especially if it was a flat fee) but I have grave reservations about paying a company that could eventually be privatised by pushing a bill through.

    1. Miko

      So you will only be happy paying into a system less efficient and competent then IW which has been proven not to work over the past 80 years?

      1. Seriously

        honestly? Yes.

        I was a lot happier just paying them for my waste collection instead of being forced to choose between Private Companies.

        I would also trust that if the prices were to get exorbitant, the reigning Government could step in and either subsides prices or introduce measures to help those who cannot afford to pay if needs be.

  10. 15 cents

    our landlord gave them our details, so thats us marked down as registered. but we arent paying. thats the same case as with a lot of these confirmed registered figures. the 100e thing is so insulting. ‘oooh over here you thick monkeys, look look! a free 100 quid! this way!’ … they may as well make it 200, or 300, it doesnt matter, once they have everyone signed up theyll raise the charges each year. thats how theyre planning on making back all the money theyve wasted so far. also, on UTV ireland website they said they advise people to use the 100 to fix their pipes etc., for a start its the persons 100 in the first place. its not a gift. second of all, why arent they fixing things themselves? instil some confidence in the public, show that they are going to improve the service .. they dont do this because they are not a utility, they are not a service, is all theyve done is install meters and post bills. theyre just a revenue harvesting body. makes me so so mad.

    1. Brian S

      What details did your landlord give them? anything more than your name and the address you are a tenant in is a breach of data protection. if he rang irish water and “registered” that is also a breach of data protection as he is essentially signing a contract on your behalf. Id be sending IW a FOI request for all information that they hold on you to check what he gave them.

      Our landlord simply rang them, said i received a bill for an apartment, im renting it out, my tenants names are x, and they are currently at this address, please contact them to arrange payment of the bill.

  11. doncolleone

    registered and paid for online ages ago, enjoy your strop until they start hitting you with the fines then come join us on the patio for cocktails and canapes.

    1. paul m

      its good that you can feel smug to be able to pay company who’s service you think is worthwhile, efficient and affordable (presumably thats why you paid and not just to keep up the with canape quaffing Jones’s or not wanting to be seen to be a troublemaker). So perhaps spare a thought for your fellow citizens you’re belittling by saying they’re throwing a strop. Did it ever cross your mind that some people feel they have a genuine concern that isnt being addressed. 30% is a pretty large number of people, its enough to elect a government. If its one thing Irish people are great at its kicking those of us sitting on the other side of the fence. Trouble is what happens if/when this all goes tits up and we’re all back in the shit together? Do you pretend you were on their side all along and ‘were made do it’ or do you come clean and admit you’re a FG supporter and are a happy to do whatever it takes to get on the top rung of that ladder.

  12. Bingo

    Didn’t register, got a bill yesterday with my name spelled incorrectly.
    Straight into paper shredder.

  13. Kev M

    Irish water has gathered data from county councils, an Post, the election registrar and more. why do you think so many bills were sent to dead people? their registration numbers are a joke. 30% are not registered, if more then 20% that are registered don’t pay, it fails the eurostat test.

  14. Joxer

    i have no objection to paying into the exchequer to fund services that we need as a society to flourish but i will not pay to IW so that in a couple of years the whole lot can be sold off to some US fund/bank and we lose all rights over the water that falls on this island.

    what was wrong with the old system. As far as i could see if they had made that system efficient and made sure that there was sufficient maintenance of the infra and funding where it was due then that could have continued. but i guess its hard to sell off the system if its not under one structure.

    thats the real reason – let no one tell you otherwise

    1. ReproBertie

      No Joxer, it’s not. It’s being set up as one of two reliable revenue streams (property tax is the other) for the government to avoid the boom/bust cycle. The IMF made no attempt to hide this but it seems to have largely been ignored in the whole debate.

      It is not about the water system infrastructure, it is not about water conservation, it is not about the quality of drinking water. It is about a new way of milking the public to keep the government funded.

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