65 thoughts on “De Wednesday Papers

  1. Billy Kremlin

    Looks like it’s war time. This time it can be justified, from the US/French side at least.

          1. Walter-Ego

            Yep, grim days indeed and they’l give the psychotic nutcases exactly what they want. An all out war against Islam.

        1. some old queen

          If those same young men were affluent members of French society this would not be happening. The reasons are clearly socio-economic and ISIS is not a religion.

          1. Yep

            C’mon now. There are numerous cases of Jihadists coming from comfortable backgrounds. Wahhabism is playing its part too.

          2. sǝɯǝɯʇɐpɐq

            @same old queen
            That was short and sweet, and correct and concise.

            Are you late for work or something?
            -You’re not normally like this.

          3. sǝɯǝɯʇɐpɐq

            Yeah, c’mon now.
            A person called Yep said we should ‘c’mon now...

            C’mon now.
            We need to ,eh ought to, should eh … c’mon now…

            Don’t let Yep down, c’mon now*.

            *Does anybody know what that means?

          4. some old queen

            @Yep. Not in the context of France, they are all from deprived backgrounds. ISIS may be an international organisation but in cases like this, all they are doing is yanking the chains of those who already have nothing to lose.

          5. Yep

            Nothing to lose? What kind of deprivation do you think these people are under. Beheading a priest can’t be explained with “they have it rough”.

            In the context of France it may be the case but elsewhere shows socio-economic factors are only one of many.

            Ah memes. Xoxoxo. Like the gas alco uncle we all love but worry about.

          6. some old queen

            Nothing justifies the beheading of a priest or anyone else but when meaningless media terms like ‘radicalised’ are thrown around like someone has been infected with a virus, we are no closer to understanding what is going on in France.

            What is making young men with no real life exposure to this death cult do such heinous things? Is it coming from online? I really don’t know.

          7. mauriac

            lots of jihadists are engineers and doctors.Muslims in France have the same access to education,services etc. as everyone else and many are very successful.

          8. Harry Molloy

            It’s a tribal thing, as it usually is I suppose. And the disenfranchised may join this tribe, the hyper religious already feel part of it. Certainly not a nationalistic thing as countries don’t seem to matter to these radicals, just Islam.

            I have no idea what the answer is but if I did I wouldn’t understand the question.

          9. Harry Molloy

            Stated here before about a black Parisian colleague of mine who adores Ireland because of the opportunity he has, which he wouldn’t get at home.
            Massive social problems. Don’t want to get into victim blaming though.

          10. Yep

            I certainly wouldn’t claim to know for certain the reasons that drive these men to these actions. Nor would I deny the societal problems in France.

            I do belive that particular teachings of Islam can nudge them in the direction of extremist behaviour though.

            The “Islam is a religion of peace” stance is grating to me. As someone stated below it can be. It can’t be ignored that it can also be used for the opposite. It is a factor IMO

          11. Harry Molloy

            Certainly a factor I agree. And where you have a spate of incidents you look for a common factor.
            It would be foolish to ignore it, however well intentioned.

          12. MoyestWithExcitement

            “I certainly wouldn’t claim to know for certain the reasons that drive these men to these actions…..I do belive that particular teachings of Islam can nudge them in the direction of extremist behaviour though.”

            ‘I wouldn’t claim to know why, but I know why.’ There’s lots of scholars of Islam in Ireland, it seems.

          13. Yep

            @ moyest

            I didn’t say i know, i said I believe. Also popped an IMO to invite discussion.

            Scholars of Islam, like many others in their chosen field, can differ in their opinions. That is the point i am making. There is no universal belief structure within Islam.

            Its nuanced. Leaving the possibilty of extremist teachings. Nor sure how this can be denied at this point.

          14. MoyestWithExcitement

            “Scholars of Islam, like many others in their chosen field, can differ in their opinions.”

            Right, but they actually know what they’re talking about. I’d say it’s a safe bet you’ve read little, if any of the Koran, let alone consider its meaning, but you “believe” it turns people into murderers anyway.

            “Leaving the possibilty of extremist teachings. Nor sure how this can be denied at this point.”

            Pretty easily when you consider all the reports about how recent murderers weren’t religious . Then there’s the MI5 report saying most terrorists are “religious novices”. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2593626/MI5-Terrorists-not-frustrated-religious-loners.html

          15. Yep

            @ moyest

            No i haven’t read it. At rhis point, after reading extracts that people use to support their argument, from either side of this debate, its clear that interpretation can vary greatly.

            Scholars have used their position to call for the death of Israel and some to promoting peaceful relations with non-Muslims. Neither are infalible but one should certainly be held in higher regard than the other.

            You mention that a priest who had sympathy for the IRA could turn people to extremist actions. The same can be said for an Imam who has an Islamist agenda surely?

            Killing a priest is pretty religious in motive, to be fair.

          16. MoyestWithExcitement

            “No i haven’t read it. At rhis point, after reading extracts that people use to support their argument, from either side of this debate, its clear that interpretation can vary greatly.”

            Non psychopaths kill out of emotion; generally hate and/or rage, obviously. It’s not like a well adjusted, intelligent person will be walking along one day when some cleric says to him ‘God says you must kill non Muslims’ and he goes ‘Oh, ok. Well if *God* said it…’

            The rage/anger is stoked by pressing primal triggers and that’s just about tribe, whether that tribe is defined by religion or a football team (people have literally died for wearing the wrong jersey) is pretty much incidental. It’s the same picture just with different colour paint.

            The book is just used to validate the rage/hate as some sort of authorititive standard. Why do you think that people who oppose gay marriage because of the bible don’t also call for gay folk to be stoned to death? Or picket supermarkets selling shrimp?

            “Killing a priest is pretty religious in motive, to be fair.”

            There are always exceptions and not necessarily. The north was often talked about in Catholic v Protestant terms but I doubt too many died because they took Communion or didn’t pray to or about Mary. Why aren’t more Muslims killing priests if it’s a commandment in Islam?

          17. Yep

            “The book is just used to validate the rage/hate as some sort of authorititive standard”

            That is the point. There are passages that support a stance of Jihad when someone with that agenda wishes to use them. The same barbaric and ancient passages can be said about the other Abrahamic religions, as you mention.

            The reason they are not used? That is why I bring up Imams. Like any belief system the teacher is usually the one who solidifies particular tenants. I have never said Islam in inherently “evil” but that people are using it for evil deeds.
            A state under a strict belief system is also one that is easier to control.

            “Why aren’t more Muslims killing priests if it’s a commandment in Islam?”

            There are plenty of passages about a no mercy approach to non-believers. Again, they can be used by people who wish to see this happen. I think it is a mistake to think that “well adjusted, intelligent person” can’t be driven to barbaric actions.

            Religion is primal. If you are in a bit it could just take a persuasive teacher and a apathetic community to go full on.

            We didn’t call each other a name once and I enjoyed your points :) *high five*

  2. kellma

    Is it not already a religious war (as most are…)? ISIS stands for Islamic state and last time I looked the word Islamic was derived from Islam. Religion has been and will be used to justify self-righteous crazy behaviour…. nothing new to see here. Religion, power, money; the holy trinity (excuse the irony) of trouble.

    1. sǝɯǝɯʇɐpɐq

      Islam is a peaceful religion.
      It’s name has been hi-jacked by a lunatic fringe of terrorists and their deliberately under-educated minions.

      It’s NOT a religious war.
      It’s a war to make money and ISIS is NOT Islam.

      soq was correct.

      1. sǝɯǝɯʇɐpɐq

        You didn’t read what I wrote.

        Islam is a peaceful religion.
        It’s name has been hi-jacked.

        Don’t try the ‘Atheist’ joker card with me…That’s MY card.

      2. sǝɯǝɯʇɐpɐq

        It’s the increasing disparity of wealth, to the point where some people starve and people like Donald Duck can be a viable President of the United States of ??? because he has money.

        If it doesn’t get better quickly it’s gonna get a lot worse soon.

        1. sǝɯǝɯʇɐpɐq

          ***I cannot say his proper name. I hate the man too much. You know who I mean. Orange. Scupltured hair-style, Talks with his brain, which is situated below his fat belly and above his two legs, around the back..
          ..try to keep up…

          He’s up against Hillary, and there’s nothing hilarious about it…
          We are DOOMED.

          Anyone know where you can cheap cyanide or a ticket off this planet?
          (Family of four, two adults, two children.)
          I’m depressed.

          1. ahjayzis

            Ohhh you mean the ‘human grease fire’* running for prez?

            *read that on Cracked t’other day, I’m using it in future.

          2. kellma

            Jesus badatmemes who are you talking to? Where did I say Islam was evil? Or any more evil than any other religion. Religions are made by men and if some men chose to use them to do evil then so it is. And it is like that…
            And where did I say I want a war? I don’t want a war. I hate wars but they happen and usually religion, power and money are there in the mix.
            Its almost like you just want to go on this tirade regardless whether it bears any relevance to the point that was made that you are building it from…. Or maybe your comprehension skills are a bit lacking. Have a cup of tea and calm down…

        2. kellma

          A religion is what you make of it. Some people use it for peaceful means, some to garner power and money…. Every religion can be interpreted if you so wish to justify non-peaceful actions and this has happened throughout history. What were the crusades about?
          This is about religion. It is also about poverty and inequality. But it is about religion and ISIS have chosen to use Islam and the bits of the Koran that justify their beheading, jihad cr*p. ISIS does not stand for impoverished social intellects against society……

          1. sǝɯǝɯʇɐpɐq

            Keep trying…
            I’ll never believe Islam is evil.
            -I wont deny there;s an evil element within Islam, but to colour everyone with the same broad brush is like saying all priests are paedophiles, and therefore so are all Catholics.

            Am I wrong?

          2. sǝɯǝɯʇɐpɐq

            And my bigger question for every one of you…
            Who’s going to fight the war you seem to want?

            I know there are no volunteers here.
            -mouthpieces that want to be heard, yeah, but their brains aren’t quite engaged yet.

            Sorry, what was that?
            -Did I just hear you hurrying to sign up?

            I didn’t think so.

      3. Deluded

        @Spaghetti Hoop
        Yes- the “Tamil Tigers” are credited with developing many of these tactics.

        1. Spaghetti Hoop

          I don’t believe they would. Those who fancy the idea of martyrdom, an attractive afterlife, (or both), would have less reservations about blowing themselves up to get on that train so to speak.

      4. Deluded

        Suicide bombings are on the increase. It is a favoured tactic because of the effectiveness, the high toll and crucially the psychological effect it has on the greater population who want to be free to mingle and trade.
        Suicide bombings are now concentrated in a small number of Muslim countries, they are generally not sectarian and not the glorious martyrdom we are wont to believe but a means of coercion of the native population.
        These themes, and the tactics worldwide, are explored in this book:
        (The link gives a brief outline of the groups involved. The book and its themes are currently in vogue among christian groups who are keen to dissociate religious zealotry from terrorist justifications but that makes it no less valid nor diminishes the atheist roots of the tactics of suicide bombings)

  3. Sido

    Surprised that no one in the media has though to describe this priest as – “not known to be involved in child abuse” yet.

    1. sǝɯǝɯʇɐpɐq

      I did though of it meself, but I think you put it better.
      -Are you serious thought…do you reckon they were ALL at it?
      -I never heard that being said before…fair play to you for your bravery and all that…

  4. Disasta

    If the media just stop sensationalising the events and individuals, none of this would happen.
    No coverage no point.

    1. Harry Molloy

      it is pretty sensational when a person blows himself up in a crowd, or slits a priests throat in front of the congregation.
      I get what you’re saying and it would dampen the flames but I can’t see it happening

      1. sǝɯǝɯʇɐpɐq

        Get rid of guns and knives and forks.
        There’s nothing wrong with plastic spoons.

      2. Disasta

        Neither can I.

        Media coverage is a big problem.
        Weeks of coverage for the animals perpetrating the atrocities. 24 hour in depth analysis, “expert” reviews, pointless details of the life of the individuals.

        Isn’t that all the acts are for? Get themselves known and spread fear?
        The media plays exactly to that. And does it to the limit of taste, maximising the result of the act.

        They seem to be be a major contributor to terrorism, in my opinion, through the excessive coverage.
        No coverage no point.

        There, I said it.

    2. Spaghetti Hoop

      Would you rather NOT know about these murders? You are naive in thinking that the perpetrators would find their mission futile and simply give up if the media resisted from reporting these events. This attitude is just like those who object to graphic images; ” lalalalala…it’s not happening”.

      1. sǝɯǝɯʇɐpɐq

        It’s all ‘Andy Warhol’ gone wrong, ammirite?
        … 15 minutes he said.

        What was he thinking?:
        It’s been at least 20 minutes so far.

  5. sǝɯǝɯʇɐpɐq

    Wadada to each and everybody.
    Have a good day, stop fighting imaginary enemies.

    Get up off your fat ass and catch some Pokémon.

  6. Tish Mahorey

    Almost every single terrorist has had previous run ins with the law or they also have had mental health issues.

    They represent the classic patsy. A person controlled and brainwashed into carrying out violent acts on behalf of a person or organisation who is never revealed, even to the terrorist themselves.

    In some cases they are influenced by the propaganda of ISIS (an entirely manufactured group which began in Iraq after the US invasion). ISIS itself has no ground support, no support of any community which means it is an imported mission controlled by Governments.

    In some cases they are radicalized by Western Intelligence or perhaps Israeli or Saudi intelligence with the aim of creating the excuse for full scale invasion of Syria and parts of Iraq to control the regions oil and create a front nearer Iran and Russia.

    You can be sure that these young men who are murdering random civilians in Europe have no idea why they are doing it.

      1. some old queen

        Lets put it this way. If dissent republicans launched a social media campaign to encourage people to go out and butcher innocents, you can be certain that it would be shut down double quick.

        And yet, nobody seems to know where these young men are getting their online ‘radicalisation’ from. The authorities seem to be unable or unwilling to identify the sources. I find that pretty odd myself.

        1. Deluded

          There was a blanket ban on IRA broadcasts in the 1980s and no internet yet we had horrific attacks on civilians.
          How were Irish people “radicalised”?

      2. MoyestWithExcitement

        ‘Hey, young man. Are you lacking a sense of purpose? Why not help your tribe achieve freedom from the foreigners trying to kill and oppress them? Everyone will love and respect you for fighting for them. Plus, I heard those foreign fuppers laughing at you behind your back cause they think you’re weally weally weak and stoopid.’

        Whether the perpetrator is Muslim, Irish or Palestinian, people are people and terrorism is terrorism.

        1. Spaghetti Hoop

          True, But would an IRA volunteer or an eco-terrorist deliberately blow themselves up for their cause? Terrorism is terrorism but look at the new tactics.

          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            I’d say for a couple of years from 69, an IRA friendly priest could have convinced some to do that. Irish people aren’t dying at the hands of Britain or the UDA now though.

          2. Spaghetti Hoop

            Social media, intelligence via internet, suicide pacts, using vehicles as weapons – same result, different tactics.

          3. Deluded

            The internet is just another medium, we are as free to accept or reject it as any of the mad crap I was exposed to growing up.
            The only tactic you mentioned relates to vehicular assault which is as old as, well, vehicles.

    1. rotide

      Tish has revealed his true colours,

      its all a conspiracy folks, Nice didnt actually bappen.

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