Free Wednesday?

at

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The Women’s Centre on Berkeley Street, Inns Quay, Dublin

Re (al) Productive Health writes:

In February 2014, we held a picket outside the anti-choice counselling office on Berkeley Road to oppose the intimidation and lies the ‘clinic’ promoted and its location beside a Marie Stopes service.

A report this morning from Ellen Coyne and Catherine Sanz [in The Times Ireland edition] has revealed that the service advises that abortions ’cause breast cancer and can turn women into child abusers’.

This service tells women lies, intimidates and cooercives their choices and is directly linked to Catholic anti-abortion groups.

We deserve better than this, we deserve to be given factual, non-judgemental information and to be supported in accessing safe and free reproductive choices along the spectrum.

Please join us to protest against this service and insist that dangerous, unregulated services such as this are closed.

Re(al) Productive Health (Facebook)

Earlier: Behind The Blue Door

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126 thoughts on “Free Wednesday?

    1. Tony

      Ooooh, banning and censorship and no platforming. Go for it. They seem to be the weapons of choice today. Let me know when and where and I’ll spread the word.

        1. Tony

          There was a time when people debated issues rather than get personal.. I merely pointed out that there were two people lying. Hardly trolling. Why did the truth upset you so much?

          1. Bob

            You were trying to attack the messenger in order to dilute the message in a fairly obvious way. There’s no point pretending you weren’t.

          2. Bob

            In spirit, yes. The truth isn’t black and white, but you’re pretending it is in order to try and undermine the facts that are important. It’s a standard tactic to attack the opposition when you can’t defend your own sides point of view. You’ve turned truth into a lie.

            You know full well that a journalist lying in that situation causes no moral issue or danger to anyone. But someone pretending to be a councilor and lying in terms of medical and psychological knowledge is incredibly dangerous. This is the issue you are trying to cover up with your strawman.

          3. Tony

            Ah fluffy, why so hateful for pointing out that they were both liars. What has religion got to do with it? Is that your standard catholic hating form?

          4. fluffybiscuits

            Tony it has been demonstrated that you are both a troll and have been shown most of what the counsellor said is pure nonsense…accept it and move on with your existence. Kindly :)

          5. Bob

            No Tony, it’s a case of you being unable to defend the indefensible and desperately trying to discredit the story. And failing miserably at it.

          6. Tony

            Bob, where do I defend the counsellor. I am talking about the behaviour of the journalist. They both lied as I have repeatedly said.

          7. Tony

            I think you’ll find that it’s others who are making an issue of it. I am still interested in the ethics of lying just to get a story.

          8. fluffybiscuits

            Tony view the morals behind it

            The journalist went in and told a lie for the moral justification of uncovering what is an incorrect practice and to expose it for what it is

            THe counsellor lied to further an agenda that flies in the face the human rights of a woman

            Do you see where I am going with this?….

          9. ReproBertie

            Tony you’re not in the least bit interested in the ethics of lying to get a story. You’re fillibusting to try and distract from the shameful lies being fed to vulnerable women who are under the illusion that they are getting independent advice.

          10. Tony

            Thanks all. I’m getting a lot of mixed messages, but basically it’s ok to lie if it suits your purpose. That’s what both of them did.

          11. Bob

            Ah give it a rest Tony. You’re just being contrary for the sake of it, while either completely missing the point of the article or badly missing the point of trolling.

          12. Tony

            As I said, thanks for all the interpretations you have put on my comments. while sharing your goal re the 8th, I don’t share your values in pursuing it. Especially the hate you need to invoke to make you points. You should check your prejudice. See you at the March

          13. pedeyw

            Oh I see, I misunderstood. Lying to counsellor in order to get to the truth as opposed to lying in the piece. Not really a moral problem for me. In this case I would say yes, journalist lie: good. We don’t live in a morally black and white world, I’m afraid.

          14. Tony

            You are right, we don’t. I always bring in the value “what if everyone did it” (Kant I think) to see if something was moral. So if all journalists could lie just to get at the truth, it would leave me a bit worried. In this instance I see the case being made, but I would contend that the journalist knew exactly the kind of lies the counsellor was spinning, so didn’t necessarily have to lie in order to get the truth. It just made a better news story and got more clicks.

  1. General Waste

    Berkeley Street, Inns Quay? Your lack of knowledge of the north inner city is showing. Inns Quay is the ward and wards haven’t been used in addresses in over 100 years. Berkeley Road/Street is at the top of Dominic Street on the way to Phibsboro.

  2. Zuppy International

    Abortion huggers: abandon all sense of irony.

    Lies, intimidation and coercion will be fought with… lies, intimidation and coercion.

          1. ReproBertie

            Zuppy wants everyone to accept his opinion on the matter as correct before any debating of the matter can begin. Typical fundamentalist lunacy.

          2. ReproBertie

            Simply saying “fact” doesn’t make something a fact, fact.

            Beside, it’s clearly not a fact as the thousands of Irish women who travel to the UK for abortions are not being pursued through the courts for murder, fact.

          3. Zuppy International

            Abortion extinguishes an unborn human life; that’s the point of the abortion procedure – killing the unborn. If you close your eyes to that reality you’re just perpetuating a sycophantic delusion that helps no one.

            Admit the truth of things; it’s how you move beyond trauma.

          4. ReproBertie

            In what dictionary is that the definition of murder?

            When will you be campaigning for those who have miscarriages to be arrested for manslaughter?

          5. Zuppy International

            That’s an old one RepoBertie and still doesn’t compute (is the hypothetical miscarriage is spontaneous or induced?)

            #admitabortionismurder and then we can discuss how such murder might be regulated before we discuss repealing the 8th.

            Because until we know what the intention is behind abandoning the protection of the life of the unborn then that protection should stand.

          6. ReproBertie

            Your fundamentalist demands are meaningless. A miscarriage “extinguishes an unborn human life”. A charge of manslaughter is usual when an act results in an unintentional death.

          7. ReproBertie

            That’s a typical fundamentalist move when facing an awkward situation to switch direction and try and avoid the truth.

            Will you be campaigning to ban the morning after pill Zuppy? After all, it’s just an early abortion device.

          8. Zuppy International

            I don’t campaign, but I do insist on truth in discussion. Neither am I a fundamentalist. I’m willing to discussion abortion regulations once we all agree on the facts: ie. abortion is the deliberate destruction of a human life, or murder.

            Now, no deflection, no distraction, answer the question directly: afterbirth abortion, yes or no?

          9. ReproBertie

            You clearly are a fundamentalist. Abortion is not murder and you simply repeating your opinion won’t make it a fact. You ain’t the pope buddy so spare us your attempts to impose your dogma on the discussion.

          10. Zuppy International

            @ReproBertie, I’m open to discussion and yet you insist I’m the fundamentalist?

            And you refuse to answer a direct question. Again you’re disappearing up your fundament.

            @fluffybiscuits the morning after pill is a fact. I acknowledge it as such. Me agreeing or disagreeing with it seems moot.

          11. ReproBErtie

            You’re open to discussion as long as everyone accepts your opinion as fact before the discussion begins. You can’t get more fundamentalist than that.

            You’re now chasing me to give an opinion on something that doesn’t exist (outside of South Park) and somehow think this is giving you the moral high ground.

            Is the morning after bill abortion?

          1. Zuppy International

            BTW, as far as I’m concerned women can do what they like, same as men. Only proviso is ‘Do no harm’, same as men.

          2. pedeyw

            Bill Nye is not a fake scientist. Admittedly he’s not a biologist, but a quick google search will show he holds multiple patents and BS from Cornell. You can disagree with him but not with the fact that he’s a scientist.

          3. rory

            Not a hope Zuppy would believe Bill Nye.
            Bill Nye, like those NASA guys who faked the moon landings, promotes the LIE of man made climate change. The general plan being to scare the public into accepting a vast expansion of government powers. ‘Repeal the 8th’ crowd, take note; Bill Nye (The Science Guy) wants government control of your uteri.
            https://youtu.be/cjuGCJJUGsg

  3. Eammon Clancy

    It’s mad, they have no issue whatsoever with the Muslim Brotherhood’s treatment of women. Or have they picketed the HQ Clonskeagh?, nah, I doubt it. I suppose that’s women for yeh.

    1. Daisy Chainsaw

      Why aren’t you picketing HQ Clonskeagh since you hate them so much?

      Why do you want other people to do your protesting for you?

  4. Peter Dempsey

    My parents are pro life too. Do you want their address so that you can picket their house? They don’t give advice to pregnant ladies but presumably the fact that they’re against abortion is surely sufficient for you to hate them.

    1. MoyestWithExcitement

      Yes, sure. Protest = hate. You’re losing the argument so you paint yourself as a victim.

    2. Daisy Chainsaw

      That shower of effluent Yank Defense got Brendan Howlin’s Wexford address when he was Minister for Health and terrorised his elderly mother by picketing her, knowing full well Howlin was in Dublin.

      That’s so called “prolife” for you. Always lying and intimidating their way around the place.

    3. The Real Jane

      As I said this morning, all the talents are turning up. One thing these abortion threads show consistently is that you have to be exceptionally thick to be anti choice. The anti argument boils down to, an imaginary old man in the sky doesn’t like it, but refuses to do anything about it, despite being omnipotent.

      Hardly an argument that many adults would enjoy having their intelligence insulted with.

      So the anti choicers, summarized today are:

      1. It gives ladies breast cancers according to a man who made up a sciencey sounding institute;
      2. The Muslims don’t like ladies but you’re not protesting against them why oh why are we catholics being victimized for giving vulnerable women in a crisis situation false and misleading information;
      3. My mum and dad don’t like it.

      Great stuff, you guys!

          1. pedeyw

            The bit about abortion being murder, Zup. You can certainly hold that opinion but it’s not a fact to be admitted. You’re not going to agree though. Aren’t opinions wonderful?

          2. Zuppy International

            ReproBertie, stop running away and answer this question directly: after-birth abortion, Yes or No?

          3. ReproBertie

            Introducing an unrelated issue to the discussion and demanding I state my position on it? That’s just another pathetic attempt at distraction from the inconvenient truth about the gaping holes in your logic.

          4. Zuppy International

            snopes? the ‘Intelligence’ website? Ha!

            You can google ‘afterbirth abortion’. There are medical papers and apparently videos (but I can’t bring myself to watch them). However ReproBertie denies these facts so such a thing happening must not be a thing.

            Delusions are lovely.

          5. ReproBertie

            Don’t trust the website that shows Zuppy’s nonsense for nonsense. Trust the other websites that back up his nonsense.

            Here’s a link from the BMJ, the same site Zuppy used, where the authors of the paper he linked to point out that “we never meant to suggest that after-birth abortion should become legal.” and that “What people understood was that we were in favour of killing people. This, of course, is not what we suggested.”

            http://blogs.bmj.com/medical-ethics/2012/03/02/an-open-letter-from-giubilini-and-minerva/

            How’s your fundamentalist delusion feeling now Zuppy?

          6. ReproBertie

            You’re citing an article that is based on “anecdotal evidence” from anti-choice activists in the comments section of an article about lies being spread by anti-choice activists. Do you honestly expect anyone to take it seriously?

    4. Mary Alagna

      What part of a person attending a clinic to get impartial advice, but getting manipulative and incorrect advice, hasn’t registered with you?
      Do your parents advertise impartial advice? I doubt it.

      How about this comparison:
      You discover your kidneys are failing…. You need dialysis, and a transplant, to live. You attend a service to get factual information about your options and risks. Unbeknownst to you, the clinic is run by Christian Scientists.
      You arrive, and they tell you
      A) dialysis causes heart failure in 90% of cases
      B) a transplant means you’ve deprived someone else of their kidney and you will suffer intense guilt if you get one
      C) Prayer has been proven effective 99% of the time and it’s really your best option.

      All of the above is told to you in the name of impartial science.

      Does this penetrate your deliberate misunderstanding?

    1. Starina

      yeah i’m having a stressy monday in work and i check in every now and again to chuckle at Tony. nice one, son.

      1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

        Tbf, having an abortion thread AND a traveller thread on a Monday is a bit unfair of BS. At least wait until Thursday when we are all desparate for the weekend or something.

        Though could you imagine the scenes if it was a traveller abortion??

        *BS explodes*

          1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            A traveller cycles to the UK to have an abortion shaped like Ireland and is interviewed along the way by Julian with hilarious interludes by LJG?

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          Because I like to see the best in everyone, I’ll give you a pretend pat on the back for a masterful performance.

    1. Daisy Chainsaw

      I think it great that the likes of Marie Stopes are monitored and regulated so they’re not giving out incorrect advice and passing off absolute guff like breasts being connected to ovaries as “information”. The safety of the men and women (they do more than abortions, you know!) using their services is paramount and they’re taking steps to ensure that continues after a report said some of their standards weren’t high enough.

      Can the same be said for the Woman’s Centre on Berkeley street? Nope. They peddle any aul dangerous sh1te to women and are supported by so called “prolife”.

  5. Bruce Wee

    Jesus….It’s been busy in here….so to recap…Tony is mad at everyone because the Journalist lied so taking the high ground on the fake story, made up media news….Zuppy international is in love with Clampers but Clampers is giving him the cold shoulder #unrequitedloveismurder and taking it out on everyone and everyone elsa is having a shit storm because the article is about Abortion and everyone has an option about that…..Plus the gang are all in on this one…Phew…so…just thinking out loud…would giving the wrong information out to someone in this position not harm them more..I think we can side tracked by which way we view everything in black and white…each case is individual and should it not be treated as such.

  6. fluffybiscuits

    We need a rich fundamentalist christian yank to bankroll us so we can start a movement based around telling half truths and half baked lies with a dash of a 2000 year old book. Tie it in with mad old grannies and fill it with mad young wans we can march down the Dail at a moments notice. Now we need some sort of legacy, we need to attract some matriarchial types attached to the Roscommon case and does anyone know of any decent hard line anti immigration right wingers? Remember folks if you get attacked have your hurleys to hand, these are not weapons these are sports equipment. We might just have an ad hoc game of hurling. As a side project we need a TV station, lets call it WETN – stands for “Women Ever Think? Never” . Finally finish it off with a pregnancy clinic, a splash of blue (nothing too blue) and throw up a statue of the aul sacred heart and we have our very own disingenious propoganda machine…who is with me!

    Tony you seem like a good place to start…Zuppy you will be my propoganda manager….

    1. Tony

      I would never join a camp that would treat a religious group the way you do. As I’ve said on here before, Irish speakers and Christians get abused in a way that no other groups would tolerate. So sorry fluffy, when you stop being a bigot, ask me again.

        1. Don Pidgeoni

          It’s nice they got a break in running the western world for the last couple of thousand years. Good on them I say.

      1. Neilo

        @Tony: The only religion that’s wrong is Christianity. One must be intellectually inferior to harbour the smallest doubts about abortion on demand. All we need now is a lazy moral equivalence between Israel and Nazi Germany and we’ll have scratched all the winning panels on today’s BS scratch card.

        1. Tony

          The only religion thats wrong is Christianity? How do you figure that out? Intellectually inferior? Nazi? Scratch card? Drunk?

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