Trump V Clinton

at

screen-shot-2016-09-27-at-02-15-32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjErCdGtJ_A

And so it begins.

FIGHT!

Previously: Face Off

Derek Mooney writes:

Here are  some random, even disconnected, thoughts on tonight’s US Presidential Debate, posting at approx 5:30 am (Irish Time).

The first is just how shockingly poor Trump’s performance really was. While many pundits were predicting that he would do badly, especially as news emerged of how little debate prep he was doing, I hadn’t imagined it would be THAT bad.

Trump is a guy who should be most comfortable in front of the TV cameras. He has spent years as a reality TV star, surely he had learned some understanding of how the medium works. Yet, as we saw from his constant interruptions, his snorting and sniffling and his awful reaction shots in the split screen segments, he seemed the least comfortable of the two in that environment.

To be fair to Trump, he did have a moderately good opening segment. He made it clear from the outset that he was set not only to bring the fight to Hillary Clinton, but to paint her as the ultimate political insider, but he never developed his narrative beyond that opening twenty minutes.He fared best when he offered solutions, the problem is that he spent most of the debate just reciting the problems.

As the debate went on it was soon clear that he had not prepared and that he was just recycling his standard Trump Rally material. His strategy, in so much as he appeared to have one, seemed to be to just play to his own existing voter base and ignore swing voters.

That is not a winning strategy when the race seems to be so close – well, close in terms of national vote, not quite so close in terms of the electoral college – but especially so when the candidate seems so prepared to rise to Clinton’s bait each and every time.

Hillary’s attack lines were so obvious that he and his team must have anticipated them and devised key responses and arguments that would allow him to pivot the debate back to her obvious weaknesses – yet they never came.

The best he could come up with was a crude bait-and-switch, but for most of the time he not only accepted the premise of Hillary’s remarks – on his taxes, his attitude to race issues and his comments on women – he then repeated and expanded on them.

While Hillary helped him implode, most of the credit goes to him. He had too made unforced errors… such as he denial that stop and frisk had been declared unconstitutional – even contradicting the moderator when he stated clearly that it was… or his lethal throwaway “That’s because I’m smart” comment when Hillary wondered if he had paid no federal taxes.

He has made his temperament and his credibility, real election issues, in a way that the Clinton had failed to do before tonight.

While Clinton clearly had a good night and did win the debate, she did not say or do enough to deal with her big unfavourables.

She still lacked passion and never really addressed the accusation that she is a Washington insider, an establishment figure disconnected from the real America which feels disillusioned and ignored – something I explored here on Broadsheet.ie.

The question is whether her winning the debate will move the poll numbers for her. In the past the winner of the first debate has managed to secure a small post debate bounce . In all likelihood she will do so now, which begs the question can she secure that bounce and hold on to it.

I suspect, as the campaign progresses that she will gradually edge more swing voters to her cause, though they will probably go to her more to stop Trump that to push Clinton – but a win is a win, even when it is your opponent who secured it for you.

A win is a win, even when your opponent secures it for you (Derek Mooney)

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63 thoughts on “Trump V Clinton

  1. JIMMYJAMES

    anti climactic … at least hillary wouldn’t have had to get the boat if it had have been otherwise in any case

    ivanka for pres

  2. Deluded

    Thanks BS, I watched some of it and I don’t think that Trump came across very well.
    Hillary made two points that I noted:
    1) Challenging Wall Street
    2) Profit-sharing
    Is this populism or is there a basis for these aspirations?

    1. Sido

      Its not about what they say. Walls -Schmalls. Profit sharing and challenging Wall Street FFS? Seriously?
      It’s about becoming president.
      Both the candidates have little consideration for any truth whatsoever.
      Its about selling yourself to the floating voter. They already own their own supporters votes.

      One Trump problem is the perception that he’s nasty. So he let Hillary be nasty. She will get a slight poll spike and it will be assumed this tactic has paid off, in the next debate she will fall into the trap of amplifying this.
      It will 1) Make Trump look more like a statesman while she does the ad-hominem stuff.
      2) Make her look nasty. So if both candidates are nasty, then nastiness ceases to be a selection criteria.

      Trump – like him or hate him (and I tend to the later) has played the long game the short game, every game.
      On a small budget and got to where he is. While liberals sit in their ivory towers and say his views are different from ours – therefore he is stupid. Their hubris has been their Achilles heel so far.

      1. Bob

        Or maybe he’s just a terrible person and an incompetent politician? I’m fairly certain that’s what it is. I mean, not once in his life has he shown himself to be anything else, so it’s a hell of a long game to be playing from birth.

        Clinton didn’t have to do anything. She didn’t come across nasty and didn’t have to say anythign nasty. She just had to let that idiot talk as he battered the nails in his coffin.

        1. Sido

          Here’s the bit (above) you failed to read before you replied Bob.
          Its about selling yourself to the floating voter. They already own their own supporters votes

          In as much as you have made your mind up about both candidates and strongly favour Hillary, to the exclusion of Donald then you are not the target audience.

          Your views (were you voting in the election) would be of no consequence. As you would be a confirmed Hillary voter.

          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            18 out of the 20 undecided voters CNN kept in a room to watch the debate said she won. 16 out of 22 undecideds on another yank news channel said she won as well. Anyone sane can clearly see she was miles ahead of that unstable lunatic.

          2. Bob

            I read what you posted and replied to it. Anyone who has not made their mind up will have seen a man openly lie, repeat himself over and over and gloat about evading tax. While Clinton would have calmly given several reasons not to vote for Trump and several reasons to vote for her.

            He came out of it a hell of a lot worse and all because he opened his mouth. This isn’t a long or short game. It’s incompetence.

          3. Sido

            That CNN say she won should come as no surprise. They had in the words of their own management bent over backwards to help Hillary.

            Its a bit like watching BBC’s “Question Time”. – Again an “unbiased audience”. If you watch it you would wonder why there was a vote in favour of Brexit. Yet more accurate polls reveal support for Brexit, has grown from the 52% result to 58% of the electorate.

            Consider that the MSM are essentially propagandists, “paid to play” players. Who back various vested interests – not an astonishing leap of the imagination Moyest but a revealing one.

          4. Bob

            Seriously Sido, you’re not sounding like you hate Trump at all. You’re giving him a win when he very clearly lost. He did nothing in that debate to ingratiate hiimself with any swing voters. He did however alienate many,

          5. MoyestWithExcitement

            I’m not talking about CNN saying she won. Claiming I did, when I clearly didn’t, is obviously a strawman and heavily implies your opinions on this topic are biased and thus not to be taken seriously.

            I’m not talking about CNN saying she won. I’m talking about 18 of the 20 undecided voters they polled saying she won plus the 16 out of 22 that another channel that isn’t CNN said she won. She won in the eyes of anyone sane. Trump showed himself to be the overly emotional scatter brained mess that he is. It was embarrassing to watch him.

          6. :-Joe

            Trumps still has every chance to win…. and I think he made more gains in this than people think.

            He was polite until she threw the first dig, he was forceful by interrupting her a lot and he nailed her on bad trade deals, job losses overseas, beurocracy and high taxes stifling business and weak leadership.

            It’s all lies and bad poilcy from him but he is preaching to the usual choir of brainwashed morons.

            As usual, Clinton looked like a clone with a dodgy wifi signal lagging her CPU to speech function… and all her so called better policies are all lies and recent flip-flops showing she has no spine and will do anything to get elected too.

            Trump is obviously carrying the sociopath gene and just doesn’t seem to give a fupp and I think it’s working.

            it’s not directly comparable to Ireland or Europe but it could be in a couple of decades. It’ the EU had a complete fiscal union or became federalised with a large percentage of total lunatics from 350 million people and only 35% of the population was ever voting then you might have something similar.

            Remember the USA is in an advanced state of oligarchy, completely corrupted and the president does not really matter that much at all anymore and can do little to change it.

            Just a couple of new characters to keep us distracted, focused and entertained by the muppet show.

            :-J

      2. Deluded

        Thanks Sido, I have to say I favoured Sanders, I mean he was proposing a lot of things we take for granted here regarding education and healthcare, (and that hasn’t stopped us achieving rampant profiteering and tax avoision) I might have respected Hillary considering some of his points but these were quite poor.
        I understand the “nasty” angle, it’s all part of the pantomine. I guess Hillary is incredibly smart but hasn’t cultivated the warmth and charm of Reagan or Shrub.
        I will say that it’s not just liberals who question Trump’s views and call him stupid.
        However, and I thought this important, since we first discussed Trump’s candidacy all my usual American sources publish Trump articles every single day, sometimes two or three, and not a single one discussing Hillary.

        To be honest, when I looked back over the quotes, I realised that Trump is reaching out to all the people who aren’t that bothered about a little social injustice and business people who appreciate a ruthless operator.

      1. Nigel

        That’ll probably be why he drops out of one or more of the other debates – setting him a bar is clearly rigging the game.

        1. Sido

          Hmm. Tough one.
          The less debates the more it favours either candidate.
          When you’re both full of **** its a bad idea to get into a **** fight.

    1. Don Pidgeoni

      Interesting people think like that when the bushes were a ‘political dynasty’. Is it because they are married rather than father and son?

      1. The Real Jane

        Well you see, it’s a stately, honourable and dignified thing for power to pass from father to son. It is a disgusting, corrupt and deplorable thing for power to pass from man to woman.

        1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

          Yeah, I don’t get it. Either it’s the concentration of political power into one family or it’s the concentration of political power into one family.

    2. :-Joe

      Haha, ye…

      I was wondering about that too but surely his ego is way too much for him to be caught conspiring as being just the hired help to female candidate… Sureley??.

      Check out my comment below for another weird hypothesis I heard about….

      I still think the mad fupper is gonna win it.

      :-J

  3. Sam

    It amazes me that they can still corral the public into this two party system.
    In August Reuters did a poll on people’s preferred candidate for president.
    After the usual question of which one of the candidates are you likely to vote for, they asked for the primary reason for backing that candidate.
    Amongst both Trump and Hilary supporters, more than 50% gave their primary reason as opposing the other leading candidate.
    They are each others biggest asset.

    1. Jake38

      Trump is not part of the 2 party system in the US. He is an insurgent who has captured the Republicn party spawned by the same populist discontent that promotes the growth of UKIP, Syriza, Marine La Pen, Jobbik, Sinn Fein, Golden Dawn

      1. Don Pidgeoni

        This. See also Hungary, Italy, the recent German vote etc. Countries seem to be going hugely left or hugely right with a massive chasm in between.

        1. Sido

          Perhaps the reason is because the “progressive” left has smugly allowed itself to become the latest tool of globalists and the establishment elite. Don.

          1. Don Pidgeoni

            Establishment. Sido. Please.

            I think it’s a combination of a changing political class, less working class MPs for example, people not feeling represented, the media driving up anti-immigrant fever and people who use and believe in the ‘establishment’ like it means something. In the UK ukip goes on about the metropolitan elite – most of the UK is metropolitan so that phrases become pointless and lead to little change. Saying ‘i don’t feel represented by Westminster politics’ is a practical response people can listen to and respond to.

          2. :-Joe

            I think you’re confusing the so-called “politically correct” with progressives that have not been in power in the US since Rosevelt died and Wallace.lost to/robbed by Truman.

            :-J

      2. :-Joe

        You’re way off the mark with that…..

        I think you’re just echoing what the news media keeps telling everyone… which is way off reality as usual…

        :-J

    2. ahjayzis

      It’s the most bent democracy in the western world.

      Electoral boundaries are actually *drawn* by politicians. So you get maps that look like this;

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/05/15/americas-most-gerrymandered-congressional-districts/

      So one party has basically stolen a house of Congress. And no one really bats an eyelid.

      Since everyone is bought and paid for five times over anyway.

      Americans act like the rest of us give a damn because their democracy is so wondrous to behold. It’s not, it’s a tragic soap opera with a big, active military.

      1. :-Joe

        Ye it’s so corrupt it’s mind boggling to even think where to start to unravel it all.

        Ireland is doing a good job of following suit tho…

        :-J

    3. :-Joe

      Ye, and it’s amazing that anyone believes these elections mean anything.

      Right Vs Left
      Rep Vs Dem
      Red Vs Blu
      MAN Vs MCI
      etc.
      etc.
      etc.

      Not really when you think about it… It’s just another intentional binary choice system.

      Only about 35% of the total population votes in the US, most people’s parents gave up on it years ago.

      :-J

  4. bisted

    …the coverage of this debate is inescapable…could you find two more obnoxious people…and then I saw this analysis was by Derek Mooney…

  5. DubLoony

    Trump was mumbling & incoherent at times. He could barely put 2 lines together to form a whole idea. He had nothing new in terms of detailed policy. “Cyber is very tough” is my favorite idiot line from him.

    Clinton had ideas, attack lines and lets face it, experience.
    Her campaign needs to put more out on why people should vote for her as oppose to her just not being Donald.

    1. The Real Jane

      My favourite is that he mentioned that he’s like, really, really rich but not for braggadoishenssism.

  6. MoyestWithExcitement

    She clearly wiped the floor with him. Any other election and you’re talking about how this unhinged maniac made a complete fool of himself. But. He’s been coming out with shouty, meandering, incoherent, disjointed gibberish for over a year and he’s now tied in the polls for the presidency. If he doesn’t see any damage in the polls after this, I’d nearly bet on him winning the election.

  7. Gers

    Fair assessment, I was surprised at how bad Trump was but even though Clinton came out better she had nothing of substance to say either! Neither are suitable if you ask me.

  8. 15 cent

    a survey of 400,000 viewers of CNBC showed 60% said they thought Trump won. He was lazy and ill-prepared because he doesn’t have to . he can say whatever he wants and still gets all the dummies supporting him.. and theres a lot of dummies there.

  9. :-Joe

    I don’t know if there’s any truth in it but there’s been a few stories knocking around about this huuuuuAAAAGE orangutan…..

    …Apparently, if it is to be believed… Trump only ran for president because his TV shows got cancelled. To avoid the embarrassment he wanted to find an excuse to be seen to be doing something else like getting his hooks on a more lucrative deal via publicising himself in a campaign trail.

    While not necessarily expecting to make it to the final he could pass the time leeching off campaign funds etc. due to him having serious financial problems. He might be cash poor I would imagine unless he really doesn’t own any of the billions of real estate he says he does due to debts that nobody can examinhe with his secretive tax affairs.

    Either way, another rumour popped up recently about him planning to do a deal to start a new media network with Roger Ailes, the fellow mysoginistic, sexist, sexual abuser and recently ex-ceo of Fox News.
    I was in the US a few week ago and there was a lot of talk about this on public radio by respectable analysts and journalists who have been exposing a lot of the truth about his financial, business dealings and sordid history.

    I’m not one for gossip but the idea that he has stumbled his way unintentionally to the front gates to the white house off the back of a sideline in a get-rich scheme seems to fit perfectly with his m.o… also it would fit in perfectly with how insane and meaningless democracy is to the political system is in the US.

    Anyone heard any similar whispers…?

    :-J

      1. :-Joe

        Ha that was funny… looks like Drumpf has made it to the last paragraph of the article…

        I still think he’s going to do it…..

        :-J

    1. MoyestWithExcitement

      “Trump only ran for president because his TV shows got cancelled.”

      Didn’t they get cancelled for things he said *after* he declared he was running? Pretty sure his comments on Mexicans cost him his NBC contract and the Miss World/Universe/whatever he owns as well.

      “Either way, another rumour popped up recently about him planning to do a deal to start a new media network with Roger Ailes, the fellow mysoginistic, sexist, sexual abuser and recently ex-ceo of Fox News.”

      Ailes is prepping him for the TV debates. He genuinely wants to win this election.

      1. :-Joe

        I’m not sure about getting cancelled after he started the race, I heard a bunch of journos claiming his contract had not been renewed and he knew long in advance…. maybe I got it wrong or it’s just hearsay…

        Ye he’s getting help from him alright… his older, more bloated disturbing twin, I wonder if it’s a back up plan if ripping off the country doesn’t work out… or if he was really trying from the start.

        Dumber and Dumberer News Inc.

        :-J

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