36 thoughts on “Class

  1. Daisy Chainsaw

    It feels a bit like Kitty was annoyed that not only was she not a part of the Repeal gig, but had to buy a ticket too. Repeal campaigners have constantly brought up the fact that abortion is more readily available for women with the means to do it. Having Irish abortions in Ireland instead of exporting them will give women of limited means that choice if that’s what they decide to do, rather than being forced to remain pregnant only because they lack sufficient money to travel.

    1. MoyestWithExcitement

      She might have brought up the price of the tickets because lots of women who might have liked to go can’t afford €32 for a concert ticket.

      1. Daisy Chainsaw

        Lots of women who might have liked to go to any concert probably couldn’t have afforded it. I’ve not gone to several concerts because I didn’t have the money. Does that mean concert going is dominated by middle class identity politics?

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          Well, if the concert was about supporting women’s rights but priced arguably most women (half of women earn less than 22k or around that, isn’t it?) out of going, then yeah. I can see how someone who works 60 hours a week for no money and just about manages to feed her children and pay her rent and relies on a €6 bottle of Aldi wine as her only personal pleasure during the week might look at a bunch of wealthy students with relatively little to worry about and feel a *teensy* bit of resentment and/or that this campaign is not for them/does not want them involved.

          1. ahjayzis

            It’s a fundraiser, Moyest. If they could fill the seats at 5 grand a pop it’d be a good thing.

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            They can charge what they like but if we’re talking about how little involved working class women are on the front end of this campaign, things like that are worth mentioning. If it was deliberately targeting wealthy benefactors at 5k a pop, that would have been better and not just because of the money. The message is different. That concert was for ‘everyone’. ‘We’re all working very hard lads. Let’s reward ourselves with a concert and we’ll throw a few quid into the pot to keep the work going. Let’s say something reasonable like €32’….except lots and lots and lots of people can’t afford €32. Again, charge what you like but be aware that you’re going to exclude a lot of people.

          3. Biggins

            It was a FUNDRAISER.

            Being involved in a campaign isn’t just the fun bits, if someone only gets involved for access to a party they’re probably not all that invested anyway. If they were invested they would appreciate the need to raise funds.

            Are many people as fickle as you?

          4. MoyestWithExcitement

            I’m seeing some prominent twitterers twittering offence at the implication they are not working class. These are people with mostly livable incomes now though. The campaign doesn’t feature many if any faces of people who live in effective and literal poverty and what that means is the point here. “women from marginalised communities were, as far as I could see, almost wholly absent from both stage and audience.”

            As much as I’m a fan of the SDs, a party of people with a significant overlap with 8th campaigners and people who will just vote for it, McNally said here they don’t target areas of social deprivation, much if at all for their own campaigning. I understand their reasoning but the article is saying that the bottom rung of society is forgotten an awful lot, not just by the Randian conservative right, but by the well meaning liberal middle classes as well.

        2. Blue nun

          How many of those women can afford 25 Euro for a REPEAL jumper fashion item?

      2. Biggins

        It was a fund raiser. If the tickets were any cheaper they probably would have lost money. Try thinking.

    2. SomeChump

      She says apart from 3 exceptions there were no working class people represented on stage. There were at least 3 on the stage at one particular event.

      She also makes a lot of assumptions about the audience. She didn’t survey them so she must assuming their class by looking at them. If most of the working class people I know were there you wouldn’t know by looking at them or overhearing them talk that they come from working class backgrounds.

      There is no examples given of anyone being excluded.

  2. newsjustin

    “Accessible abortion is essential if women are to achieve economic and political equality with men…”

    This is the attitude of someone who may be described as pro-abortion. We’re often told the “nobody is in favour of abortion or are pro-abortion.” But some people are. Some people are pro-abortion because they see it as a means of rejecting the “shackles” of motherhood that they see as making them unequal to men.

    I’m certainly not suggesting that the writer is “pro-abortion” in the sense that she wants it for every woman across the board. But she is pro-abortion.

    1. MoyestWithExcitement

      So you invented a definition of the term just so you could throw it at someone. That’s very dishonest of you.

    2. DubLoony

      Does that mean that only women who can afford children have them? Would this further stigmatize women who decide to continue a pregnancy in what might be less than ideal circumstances?

  3. DubLoony

    The campaign is made up of about 50 groups, so there are a lot of voices in there.
    Article raises important point – if a choice is between a life of consistent poverty or abortion, its not much of a choice is it?
    Decisions women make are based on their economic, social, emotional, mental, and medical circumstances.

    We need to support choices women make, including that of having children.
    And those who already are bringing up children.

  4. kid jensen

    The column was a good read a bit mealy mouthed, kitty with her house in Rathgar is hardly a card carrying member of the working classes.

    1. ahjayzis

      And Michael Noonan isn’t a hedge-fund billionaire. But he advocates for their rights, Kitty advocates for the rights of the poor and disadvantaged.

      Drop the charade, if she lived on Sheriff Street you’d accuse her of the politics of envy, as she’s middle class you accuse her of champagne socialism – save us all time and admit you’ll smear anyone advocating for the classes of people you dislike.

      1. SomeChump

        She is making assumptions about people’s class based on superficial appearances. She doesn’t actually know the audience were middle class. She just thinks none of them looked working class presumably because they weren’t wearing tracksuits.

    2. Frilly Keane

      What’s where she lives got to do with it

      If I could manage a gaff in Rathgar I would

  5. Peter Dempsey

    Kitty should write for The Guardian. This piece of middle class guilt should be right up their alley. However fair play to her for being honest about her own experiences.

  6. Ben Redmond

    Feminist ideology, with deep roots and promotion in university departments, is a preoccupation of the middle classes. The peasantry and proletariat hardly get a look-in.

  7. know man is an island

    Meanwhile my phone asks me:
    “Would you like to date a Ukrainian girl?”

    Just saying

  8. Kieran Nice Young Chap

    Keeping the issue free from ‘normal’ politics is probably the best strategy to repeal the 8th, much like the marriage equality ref.

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