Outside the the Route 91 Harvest country music festival in Las Vegas, Nevada on October 1
‘Tinfoil Terry’ writes:
Considering the extensive home coverage given to the Las Vegas shootings I am surprised that no Irish media outlet has raised concerns about the many anomalies in the official story. … Broadsheet with your conspiratorial bent should have gone to town on this….
….we heard from everyone when this happened, even Fintan O’Toole gave a sermon, but not a peep now that circumstances surrounding what happened are in some doubt…Why?
What anomalies exactly?
Beat me to it.
and I’m in moderation too :) :)
Yes I would like a list of the anomalies also. He does have a point though there are inconsistencies around the story concerning the hotel security guard who was shot and the exact point at which the hotel called the police so if this chap has a few more I’d like to hear them
it’s just someone looking to get attention form someone and drive clicks towards a certain you-tuber. the same guy who said sandyhook was a fake. it’s a shame broadsheet thought it necessary … not everything is a conspiracy. people do bad things. always have. always will. it would be nice if people spent more energy trying to minimize such occurrences rather than exploiting them. just sayin …
it’s a shame broadsheet thought it necessary
Have we all forgotten the endless pro-Trump conspiracy poo about Spirit Cooking that Bodger posted in the run-up to the US Presidential election?
yeah, back to trolling again for clicks. trying to get some attention from other shores to increase some stats. i’d say something if it was a slow news day but … hang on .. there’s a dog out there and he’s barking at the wind. i think i’ll give him my attention now. he’s making more sense than alot of the stuff on here ..
And yet here you are commenting..
If you want to find a conspiracy – you’ll always find one..
For example, I’m assuming Tinfoil Terry is Bodger/JR.
Bodger is Bodger. Tinfoil Terry is Tinfoil Terry.
Preposterous! I know a hoax when I see one.
All evidence to the contrary.
Kerry wouldn’t know a hoax if it bit him on the derriere..
You would say that of course! You can’t fool me Badger. All the signs are there.
While I disagree with you, the frustration in your posts made me realise how surreal this must be for you; having to put up with comments from people who don’t seem to know how stupid they sound.
Yea surreal to the max.. your totally psyching me out blob..
Well surreal is the only word that springs to mind.
Well it must be, interacting with blobs like myself; complex people, normally fairly intelligent, who expound great energy and critical thinking to build routes round obvious holes in their logic; who talk down to you as if you’re the idiot, when their own comments make them sound not particularly bright in comparison.
“normally fairly intelligent”
Well I was trying to be kind. We can go with ‘doesn’t know how thick he is’ if you want. Although it’s a bit cruel and mightn’t be true necessarily.
Badger believes the brother was a crisis actor. I would put money on it.
John RyanAir would never use a name like Terry
Terry suggests tracksuit pants and liverpool jersey
not tailored shurts
Does Tinfoil Terry use the foil off of a Terry’s chocolate orange to make their hat?
That’s an expensive tinfoil hat, if so, as I estimate, at Aldi prices, €2 per orange, and allowing for torn wraps, times the guestimated average head size, that’s like, ya know, a lot of wraps.. . like 30 to 38 or something! .. Maybe 40! Making that a very expensive tinfoil hat at €60 to €80, and that’s just not on!
I think now we have some idea of where Lord Lucan’s money went.
Lamestream media need to look into this connection. But they won’t.
Eh? Wha? Are you saying Clampers is spending Lord Lucan’s money? I’m lost.
I wish :)
Ferrero Rocher foil is more reflective of the CIA ray. Its the same material they put on the visors of astronaut helmets to stop aliens from laying eggs in their thoughts. Of course, Fine Gael don’t want you to know this. .. Just a sec. There’s someone at the door..
I didn’t know that
I thought the gold tint had sum’ting to do with Trump and his favourite colour
Nonsense comment bait article.
Dear broadsheet, you are better than this.
Are they? Are we? Do we deserve better?
That picture says a lot, cops armed and hiding behind a police car with civilians standing and milling around.
In reality, people today are just too desensitised by the rolling news and mass social media.
Even to something as horrible as a mass shooting, news coverage lasts about a day or two on the news and then we move on to the next atrocity or disaster.
Besides if we get all our news from verified blue tick people, it’s bound to be full of half truths and anomalies.
Something meaningless say like Linehan quitting Twitter because ”nazis wih blueticks”, if Graham had studied who has the blue ticks, he’d have realised it’s mostly left-wingers and liberals and the absolute degenerates of modern social society. Twitter banned most of the ”nazis with blue-ticks” after Trump was elected out of pure miserable hatred and bitterness.
Conservatives and right-wingers don’t have much of a voice when screeching liberals attack them personally and not what they’re tweeting or posting on Fakebook and what have ya.
If in doubt, just blame the NAZIS, YES THE NAZIS have risen from the dead and are trying to fight the crypt-communism infecting our world today.
Which to me personally, can only be a good thing.
So, in closing, get bulletproof and don’t strain your eyes staring at the internet.
Interpretation is sometimes difficult at my altitude.
I read this that there are a new breed of zombie blue tick insects in charge of the news…..
Broadsheet descended so gradually into a Sandy Hook-truther page that I barely even noticed…
I’ll see you on here tomorrow so..
Is everyone commenting here drinking heavily???
I do shots of Holy Water whenever a Broadsheet newstory appears in my Twitter feed.
Oh well look at Mrs-I-have-a-job-and-dont-spend-the-afternoons-drinking-cheap-booze-and-watching-daytime-TV. Aren’t you great?!
Yes, it’s great that a little person like you can recognise the fact.
I’m not little, baby.
I’m not a baby, extra-small.
You’re my baby, baby-baby
Sorry to break it to you, tiny thing, but I’m my own woman.
That’s exactly what I want you to think
Don’t you love when the garda asks you
” have you a drink taken ?”
Good ol’ days :)
Harder to see chem trails at night time too
Gun control hoax, figleaf to push through legislation for the requirements of body scanners and metal detectors at all public events..
Have there been any mass shootings in America that weren’t hoaxes, in your view?
Can you point me to one that clearly wasn’t blob?
i know you’re still being ironical.
Poor pt’ never quite got over Hillary..
so all the dead bodies then
are they like movie extras
Oh God what have I done I take it back, prove nothing, consider it proved, I’ll be good I swear
Good lad Nigel..
Frilly, there was a crisis actor recruitment audition the week previous, all those people are actors..
Did they all order ‘pizza’ if you know what I mean and I think you do
N’what about the band
Who were the band
Here this is like Argo int’it
What’s a crisis actor?
A security guard from the hotel who was one of the main witnesses is now missing.
No he’s not.
the other guy who is missing.
Please post a link or more details…
The link is also missing.
so is the plot
by the looks a’things
He means security guard Jesus Campos. Hailed as a hero by police, he’s said to be the one who first managed to alert the authorities to the shooter’s location while being on the receiving end of the shooter’s gunfire.
But 5 days ago, just before he was set to meet the press and give a series of interviews to US channels, he’s said to have bolted and hasn’t been seen since!
Also does that old adage “follow the money” apply here?
Some weeks before the shooting, the CEO of MGM Resorts (the company which operates the Mandalay and other resorts in the area) sold off 80% of the shares he owned in the company. Around the same time, George Soros bought $42 million worth of puts on MGM Resorts. What led them to believe the share price of the company would be going down?
Jim Murren is chairman and CEO of MGM resorts international, hq in Nevada, he is a member of Homeland Security’ National infrastructure advisory Council..
Dumped 85% of his stock in weeks leading up to the attack.
All just a coincidence of course..
Anything more reliable than zerohedge?
A proper newspaper source?
Daisy MSM or affiliates don’t report on conspiracies, they enable them..
Zero Hedge is rarely wrong. Meanwhile, your ‘proper’ newspapers are propping up the hoax.
The SEC have the transaction on file.
Why don’t you send the link to a ‘proper’ newspaper and see what happens?
SFA is my bet.
Here’s the Soros filing…
Scroll down to MGM and you’ll see 1.35 million share as a ‘Put”
how the fupp does someone called tinfoil terry get to post this poo. I’m sure my fuppin comment will be fuppin moderated but tinfoil willyheard terry will get free reign.
That is because my widdling bad language is more offensive than his poop.
Top modding there..
If the ‘truthers’ are in rabid persuit, could you blame him?
What Tea Shack said..
Let me do what no one has yet done and address the question directly.
The question was : Why are Irish media not reporting on the many anomalies around the story ?
The answer : There are no anomalies. Yet. The investigation is ongoing.
Tinfoil Terry, if you would like to man up and provide us the list of anomalies as you see it then we can have some decent discussion.
Unfortunately mr terry is in to the “I don’t know, but… ” argument as expertly used by trump and co…
Yes, it is rather disappointing seeing broadsheet buying into this.
I rather enjoy conspiracy theories, they are good exercises in critical thinking.
But I am a bit ticked off at this being presented like there are somehow anomalies in the story…when there are not.
Tea Shack, could you describe what is happening in the photo above?
What’s wrong with the photo?
Have you seen it before?
I have not. Is it from the Las Vegas shooting?
Ooooh, enigmatic questions hinting at some deep knowledge. Is it related to the piece about Hillary that’ll change everyone’s mind on her Bodger? You know, the one you were going to post last November?
Why don’t you just tell people what the theory around the picture is instead of laying traps?
Reprobertie, well when the photo appeared in mainstream news outlets, including The Irish Examiner, the bloke texting and the other two strolling in the line of fire were cropped out.
I see the offspring of Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene. What do you see, Bodger?
Wellness, I see myself as an 11-year-old boy scuffling with my best friend in a fury after he told me where babies came from.
Yes I could describe what is happenning in the photo, as could anyone else with a set of eyes.
Come on out with your theory about the photo please, quit avoiding the fact that you have yet to present anything concrete.
Is it that the cops are taking cover and the public aren’t?
If that seems strange, I’d suggest you don’t understand how strangely and irrational people can act.
So Bodger are you suggesting the photo was staged or that the media cropped it to make it look more dramatic? It’s just possible that the cops are taking shelter because they are trained to do so while the public only duck and cover when they hear shots but I’d love to hear your opinion.
The public were warned to stay away from the coast yesterday but went out on jet skis, swimming, surfing, kit-surfing and even climbed over barriers to walk along the sea front. The public are very good at ignoring advice given for their safety.
Two guys aimlessly on their phone’s stroll into the cops firing line, yea that’s not a contrived photo alright..
Bertie he’s told you his opinion, and you don’t like it, your reaching for reasons to explain why the two lads would be standing texting in the fire zone..
I see a few lads knocking about
and 4 cops ducking behind a car
2 of the cops are looking one way
the other two are looking the other way
so which way was the Accountants Hotel window?
how many shooters again?
frilly according to witnesses there was multiple shooters
ah here Repo
are you saying the Red Alert lock down over the whole country was a conspiracy?
and we on the East Coast were codded into saying indoors
Lol @ Bodger.Best to ignore him. The albino monk did not have his wicked way with the sacred virgin.
lols & hugs& kisses
Jusayinlike, the witnesses I saw interviewed heard a lot of shots and said there must have been multiple shooters. Nobody has presented any evidence to back up the assumption.
Multiple witnesses have claimed they saw multiple shooters, dressed in black army surplus..
Or maybe t’was like in Breaking Bad
there in the end
when he rigged the gun in the boot to work of remote control n’blue tooth n’ other fancy stuff
Mother of God if there’s an argument being made would you guys get it together and feckin make it this asking questions and dribbling dribs and drabs from multiple commenters way way way below the op are as far from any sort of coherent journalism as to suggest this is nothing but hobby trolling.
Where have I seen images of armed trained personnel taking positions of cover while seemingly casual civilians stood nearby?
Anything more recent Nigel?
Do you have a similar photo from an area that isn’t war torn?
The whole idea is that these people wouldn’t be used to high incident terror and therefore wouldn’t be acting casually.. like strolling aimlessly across a firing line texting..
At the end of Ghostbusters 2 there were loads of people lining up on the streets to gawk at the impending disaster…
..am I off topic :)
Nigel, all the commenters are acting independently. No inside job, brah.
Is your entire theory built on a highly subjective interpretation of s still image depicting humans behaving in contrasting ways in a dramatic situation? Write up your feckin theory for a front page post if you have the guts to stand by it, with sources. Sniping at commenters who find your judgement and credibility a joke is a great way to feel superior and in the know I’m sure. I’d be particularly keen to hear why you think either a Republican House and Congress and Executive thought this was something they wanted to do to because they want to promote, er, gun control, or how people not in power (Democrats? Soros?) thought that doing this was going to get said Republicans to budge on gun control when Sandy Hook failed.
Nigel, I mentioned the photo because readers may only have seen it with the bystanders removed.
I know, Bodger. Random commenters popping in to sneer at the sheeple is exactly what passes for reportage in this sort of thing.
Nigel, your doing exactly that to me..
Nigel, imagine you are what you call a ‘sheeple’ or sheep person in a sunny dale. Some of the other sheep people take you aside and politely raise the possibility that the farmer and the dog are in a conspiracy. You love the farmer and, while you could live without the dog, he means no harm and has a job to do. You shake your head and bustle away from the other sheep people with a bleat. You know the rest.
(apols to Gary Larson I think)
Then say so. We don’t all hang out at reddit conspiracy corner or whatever.
jusayinlike – sorry I was trying to speak your language.
bodger – a substance-free analogy yes persuasive.
Agh that’s ok Nigel, I momentarily forgot that you have no frontal lobe and frequent sites such as snopes and salon..
Is that what you forgot? I had this stuck in my head and couldn’t work out what it was for ages:
It’s a substance-free
Maybe you forgot ala missing frontal lobe
It’s a frontal lobe
A truther fakata.
Conspiracy theories are being invited by the absolute vacuum of information the public is being provided with. If you make no assertion as to why the shooter shot then of course people are going to speculate.
Would it be better to provide a made up reason than to simply say they don’t know?
I saw a CBS youtube vid of the Vegas strip sheriff stating there was no conspiracy between Nevada PD and the FBI to cover up anything, while an FBI COUNTER INTELLIGENCE agent named Rouse stands behind him and bores holes in the back of his head with his glare. There were as many thumbs up and thumbs down on the vid and nearly all 3000 comments were doubting the official story. So cover up or not, people aren’t buying it. I’ve seen the footage of people fleeing into the Bellagio screaming on that night cos there’s someone outside shooting at them. Every eye witness I’ve heard interviewed claims multiple shooters. And why aren’t there more interviews with victims of this? Where are the interviews? Again, conspiracy or not this story is full of anomalies and stinks like a cover up. Scary stuff.
Eye witnesses are famously inaccurate.
I can give you a simple example. Many years ago I was on a bus passing through Phibsborough. There was a shooting on the street as we passed. Two clear shots, a pause and then a third shot. 30 seconds later the passengers on the bus were arguing about the number of shots with one guy adamant that there were two and refusing to accept anything else.
“People don’t buy it” – Of course people don’t buy it, we live in the post Trump age, where no one believes anything.
Suddenly, everyone is a detective.
Sitting thousands of miles away, staring at a glowing screen in a darkened room.
“Oh it stinks like a cover up”
Does it yeah ?
Can you please post these interviews where people said it was a multiple shooter ?
Also how could people who are running for their lives possibly know it is multiple shooters ?
The guy was unloading the bullets fairly fecking quickly, from quite a distance away, were they standing there looking to ascertain where the shots were coming from ?
No, they were running or ducking for cover, or running for their lives.
And, as said here, eyewtinesses are notoriously unreliable.
was almost attempted to do your work for you and post links to footage of witnesses being interviewed both on corporate and independent media but your last line makes it clear you’ve already closed off your mind to debate.
“Also how could people who are running for their lives possibly know it is multiple shooters ?”
I guess you’re not aware, for example, of the guests staying at the Belagio hotel over a mile away who have come forward to say there was a shooting incident in the lobby there too? One of whom streamed from her phone in the aftermath of the incident. They say it happened several minutes after the incident at the Mandalay and also there’s no direct line of sight between the two hotels.
Okay but how would any of this prove the massacre was fake? That seems to he the conclusion we’re supposed to start with and everything else is assumed to fit together somehow to prove it. You’re admitting that you don’t have sufficently compelling proof to persuade a skeptical mind of… whatever it is you’re trying to persuade them of. Why should anyone take you seriously?
No Nigel, what I’m saying is that I think there’s now enough anomalies in the official narrative of events to warrant maintaining an open mind and reserve judgement on what the truth actually is until presented with proof (eg hotel cctv footage) rather than just taking what the authorites say on faith. Apply proper sceptical thinking (ie. scepticism in its true sense: https://skeptoid.com/skeptic.php ).
I don’t get this general rush to ridicule anyone who airs their doubts.
Announcing that it’s a fake attack staged with actors isn’t airing doubts.
– the muzzle flashes from such a large volume of fire should’ve turned the guys hotel room into a disco ball,
– the smoke from such a large volume of fire would’ve filled the room quickly,
– there’s also something about George S going long MGM puts or something
– insider selling in months preceding the attack
– shooting witness (female) who identified multiple shooters found dead
That is all I’ve learned from following some moron on twitter who occasionally tweets things which are relevant to my work.
I think everyone just went back to the BlackJack tables meself
I know I would
The sheriff involved has revised the timelines 3 times already apparently. Fintan O’Toole, Jimmy Kimmel and the like had their grandstanding moment and their interest moved on but they haven’t done anything to ensure the families involved get the answers they deserve.
Here was the status on Oct 10th: http://time.com/4977048/las-vegas-shooting-timeline-concerns/
The security guard (Jesus Campos) who confronted the shooter in advance of the shooting was wounded in the process. He was supposed to appear on Hannity but has since disappeared. Needless to say, his statement would be very valuable.
He’s scheduled to appear on the Ellen De Generes show today
+1 he won’t be seen again…
He’s scheduled to appear on the Ellen De Generes show today
I’d say he got a book and movie deal
and is off somewhere working with the Scriptwriters n’ Producers before Trump deports him
That’d be the Jesus Campos guy who hasn’t actually disappeared
Yea it’s OK folks he’s not missing, he’s under guard in case some “truthers” wax him..
Sorry are you trying to say that truthers have not harrassed people on and offline, telling parents of Sandy Hook victims that their children were crisis actors ?
The truther movement is seriously tarnished, and yes snopes is seriously tarnished. Everything on the internet is tarnished, including broadsheet – bottom feeding on crap like this to generate comments.
Use your head a little…you honestly think the security guard has disappeared ? Because he cancelled some media appointments ?
I have never appeared on TV, does that mean I don’t exist and have vanished now ?
Try to imagine the psychological toll of being wrapped up in a mass shooting, then the added weight of having to recount the story under bright lights, with half the world watching, all day, every day for days or weeks on end.
People are only human . They act like humans. They get scared. Some people get scared by reality and want there to be a conspiracy so they don’t have to face the actual reality. Any fairy story they can spin themselves is far better.
I imagine this security guard is under severe psychological and physical stress from the incident. You think he owes it to anyone to be out in front of the cameras giving a statement ? Does he fupp..
” Here was the one of the world’s most respected fact checking organizations, soon to be an ultimate arbitrator of “truth” on Facebook, saying that it cannot respond to a fact checking request because of a secrecy agreement.
In short, when someone attempted to fact check the fact checker, the response was the equivalent of “it’s secret.”
It is impossible to understate how antithetical this is to the fact checking world, in which absolute openness and transparency are necessary prerequisites for trust.”
Snopes’ reputation is now seriously tarnished. Caught out for being in bed with Monsanto; also co-founder David Mikkelson is embroiled in an ongoing court case – accused of embezzling funds from the company.
It’s always Monsanto….
what’s always Monsanto?
Fair point Clampers. Who are the arbiters of truth then ? Are we to believe every single conspiratorial fact on the internet that contradicates any official narrative ?
What was the last conspiracy theory to be proven true ?
I think the right approach is to use your own critical thinking. You’d be a fool if you were to believe “every single conspiratorial fact on the internet that contradicates any official narrative”
but equally you’d be a fool to always trust inherently that those in postitions of power would never conspire to tell lies to the public via a non-questioning corporate media.
The best thing you can do is to use your own judgement to find independent journalists which you find credible.
And by “disappeared” you mean staying out of the eye of the media.
Which I would probably do too given how “truthers” like to literally terrorise vicitms and witnesses of mass shootings as seen in Sandy Hook..
You boys really really want there to be some twinkle pants conpsiracy don’t ya ?
Give it time, that lad will resurface, mark my words.
I’ll say it again John,Bodger, everyone involved in broadsheet, these are dangerous games you’re playing.
You are advocating for the harassment of innocent people and should be ashamed.
The worst part, aside from the grieving relatives and traumatised victims being treated as actors playing roles, is the cover this nonsense provides for any actual nefariousness or cover-up going on, if any. The truther movements are acts of well-poisoning.
Jet fuel melts casino chips.
Tis nice t’see Bodger out n’about amongst us
Best behaviour now lads
If it’s not too much trouble Bodger, would you be so kind as to put up a link to the photo you claim was cropped, instead of making a comparison with a picture we may or may not half remember from a couple of weeks ago.
Could you also give us some indication why ‘they’ would stage these photos in a crowd of uninterested people, and then remove those people from the photo, instead of simply taking the photo in an actual stage somewhere? Where’s the payoff supposed to be here?
This is the best craic I’ve had reading broadsheet in ages.
Once you get over the actual offence caused to families of people that lost their lives and the mild dissapointment that critical thinking has reached such a low point, you’ve got to laugh at the sheer vagueness of it all.
But, but… George Soros had no better way of making money than to engineer a mass shooting to make good a hotel stock short. Totally all out of other options. You can’t trust a senior management crisis, or a hygiene shutdown or something. It’s got to be mass terrorism.
Or even a bitta’ve tremor
And that worked for Billy and Rusty and the lads
There’s a few good articles on the Washington Sniper that time. It’s interesting to read through. 24 News coverage needing to fill the hours with something. Unfortunately in events like this, there’s little to report. You’re not at a concert or a petrol station waiting to be shot at, so you’re not really paying attention and then all hell breaks loose. And then you’re interviewed and what you say is reported continually for the next 24 hours or until someone else says something and they report that.
Anyway, with the Washington sniper is interesting for eye witness information. After the first one it was reported that a white van was seen in the area (may have been different vehicle, but not relevant). A witness said so. The news reported it. The news kept reporting it and it became fact. The police looked at the CCTV and there was no white van so they dismissed it. But the story stuck, it was the truth, the people there said so. Then at every subsequent event, numerous witness described in detail a white van. The police checked CCTV and there was absolutely no white van. But the news reported it on a loop. And people kept seeing white vans.
There never was a white van. The witnesses were wrong. Memory isn’t a app recording video, it’s biochemistry with some electricity. It gets it wrong and often. We can chat about an incident afterwards and other people’s memories becomes our memories, becomes fact.
The police have changed their timelines in this story. Maybe its as information is clarified and they realise the old one was wrong. Maybe they gave out incorrect information to start with as news crews constantly pressed them for updates and they had to go back and correct it. Or maybe they whole thing was orchestrated for reasons that have yet to work in any of the other orchestrated events. It could be malice, it could be incompetence.
Anyway, good source for information is Elizabeth Loftus. she’s done a lot of work on memory and especially false memories and especially eye witnesses. She got a fair bit of bad press years ago for showing that hypno therapy can implant false memories and there were a whole load of people accused of child abuse who had been imprisoned on false memories.
All events have inconsistencies. Most of the time it’s bad reporting of eye witness testimony and it sticks because the news report is always there and never retracted. Sometimes there genuinely is a conspiracy, but they usually fail because people are generally pretty incompetent.
False memory foundation, an odious group used to pour scorn on survivor’s of ritual abuse, is this the putrid well you draw inspiration from listrade?
But what about being able sometimes to use a bit of our own critical thinking on what evidence is available – eg. some of the witness videos taken at the time?
I consider I have a pretty good understanding of how echoes work. When I watch this video taken by a taxi driver stationed close to the Mandalay, at the 0.4 second mark I hear the sound of close-by, automated gunfire.Then from about 0.9 to 0.45, silence, followed by the sound of only distant gunfire yet the driver of the taxi hasn’t moven her position. Why was there no sound of the close range fire at 0.45? Can anyone come up with a feasible explanation?
At this poiunt for me it’s quite a compelling reason to be at least be open to the possiblity that the people reporting multiple shooters could be right and shouldn’t be discounted at this point.
When controversial events occur, I think the danger of always shrugging off the things that don’t don’t add up or that are inconsistent, is that you end up becoming smug and sometimes ill-informed!
+1 f lawless as always..
No no all hysteria, people only imagined those fully automatic cannons,
official line as always… oh wait there isn’t one
There’s a vast starry gulf between taking note of indiscrepancies and inconsistencies and agreeing that they obvoously prove that someone hired a bunch of actors to stage a massacre.
That gulf is filled with the FACT that there was an audition for crisis actors the week previous week, try again champ..
Ah the ole straw man technique. That’s not fair Nigel you’re intentionally misrepresenting what I said. The massacre was staged and no one really died? I don’t suspect that. Never said I did. What I do wonder at this point after some consideration, is whether there’s some form of cover up going on. I could speculate about what that might be but without more information available I couldn’t draw any conclusions.
What I’m saying is to keep an open, sceptical (in the true sense) mind at this point. Don’t close it off and disregard anything that doesn’t fit the story just because corporate media is not giving it any attention
I’m not misrepresenting what you said, I’m representing what has been said in the course of this thread, which if you’ve been following at all you should be aware of, so waving the straw man fallacy around as if I was specifically referring to what you said is also unfair.
However these discrepancies and inconsistencies shake out in the long run, it’s just incredibly sad and frustrating to see that the news cycle has moved on leaving conspiracy theorists and truthers to pick it over and turn it into another pizzagate. Of course, it did get more attention than that bomb in Mogadishu. So it goes.
I agree it is incredibly sad and frustrating to see that the news cycle has moved on; and how over the years, real investigative journalism has largely died off among the larger US media networks – rather now we have “stenographer” journalists who parrot unquestioningly what the authorities say. It’s what led the US public into going along with the invasion of Iraq (WMD’s), a majority of whom actually believed that Saddam was responsible for 9/11 by the time of the 2003 invasion due to the misinformation fed by US intelligence agencies through to the press.
That’s just one example. The spinning of false narratives has now become the norm – Pulitzer prize winning investigate journalist Sy Hersh recently said when reflecting on the state of US journalism: “The republic’s in trouble, we lie about everything, lying has become the staple.”
It’s understandable then that large members of the US public have been loosing faith in corporate media to properly investigate and deliver the truth.
I think at the very least the Vegas investigation has been really incompetent. Why haven’t they yet released even a little of the cctv footage placing Paddock at the scene? If only to quell public suspicion somewhat? That’s what I want to see.
Also just reading your sentence again there “However these discrepancies and inconsistencies shake out in the long run, it’s just incredibly sad and frustrating to see that the news cycle has moved on..”
That’s rather contradictory. What your really saying there is that “these discrepancies and inconsistencies fade from my mind because I never heard any follow up in the usual outlets therefore there mustn’t have been anything to them; no need to investigate further.
So I would say that perhaps you too -and people of a similar mindset – could be accused of moving on too soon along with corporate media? ;)
Don’t tell me what I’m really saying. You haven’t a clue, and it’s tiresome. I don’t accept random hostile commenters sneering at me for not immediately believing their ‘fake attack’ conspiracy and no amount of lecturing on the well-worn topic of the ongoing gutting of journalism will change that.
Agh people disagreeing with you Nigel, that’s terrible, shame on them..
Nasty comments, you never throw those around eh..
“These discrepancies shake out in the long run”
Oh right, so that’s why the US government made it a felony to seek FOI requests in relation to anything on Sandy hook..
Your a gas man Nigel. Firstly you were the one who first engaged me in debate not the other way round and I can only guess when you say “random hostile commenters sneering at me for not immediately believing their ‘fake attack’ conspiracy”, like before, you mustn’t be referring specifically to me. If you were, I apologise if I came across as a sneering in some way; it was just intended as a challenge to your outlook.
But secondly aren’y you doing the very thing that you seem to hate in other people by saying to me “You haven’t a clue, and it’s tiresome.”? That’s sneering in my book.
Actually one thing we can agree on this is getting a bit tiresome. No point debating issues to those not open to debate. As Noam Chomsky once said “The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum”. Good night!
f_lawless – Well, this is belated. No, you weren’t the sneering person, sorry if I gave you that impression – I don’t have a problem per se with sneering but when you’re suggesting that the entire shooting was faked then your strongest logic and source of evidence is going to be just sneering at people. Sorry, again, that’s not you, that’s just what ticked me off in this discussion.
On the other hand, framing your comments in terms of other people’s close-mindedness and need for skepticism is kinda patronising.
jusayinlike – the real felony is the FOI you made of my heart.
What has given you this understanding of how echoes work? And how good do you think the microphone is on a mobile phone for capturing that kind of detail?
The NYT have released a narrative of what happened, compiling various videos of the event, including the one you refer to.
The narrative suggests that the ‘far away shots’ heard in the video you reference was Paddock shooting inside the hotel, as opposed to out the windows. The video posits that he was already detected by two separate people inside the hotel at this point, he has shot one of them in the leg prior to this.
The NYT isn’t conclusive about the ‘duller/farther away sounding shots’ of the video you reference, but what is does suggest sounds possible.
I’m guessing this suggested detail of the NYT narrative won’t be good enough for some people, especially those who have made their mind up already. But if you classify yourself a skeptic, you might not be as close minded and consider the possibility.
Sure I would agree that that could be a possible explanation to explain the different volume levels in the taxi driver’s video.
But you lost me at “I’m guessing this suggested detail of the NYT narrative won’t be good enough for some people, especially those who have made their mind up already”. Sounds like this NYT narrative is sufficient for you to make your mind up already.
Is it sound reasoning to implicitly trust a media outlet that has been repeatedly exposed over the years as being an establishment propaganda mouthpiece? Here’s esteemed intellectual Noam Chomsky’s take on the paper:
What about all the videos not dealt with by the NYT – the reports by witnesses of incidents at the Bellagio, the Tropicana, Hooters, etc? Have you heard the police scanner recordings that suggest multiple shooters?
You don’t find it odd that no investigative journalists or victims’ attornies will be allowed to question the key witness to the event, Jesus Campos? The worst mass shooting in US history and the only public account he’s going to give is the pre-recorded, pre-edited chat show Ellen. Does that seem appropriate? Not to mention Ellen is clearly leading his explanation and also that he contradicts the offical police timeline of when he notified security in relation to when the shooting started? (so many timeline changes already!).
I think a genuine skeptical mind should still consider the possibilty of a cover up at this point. Why to this day has not even a frame of cctv footage been released placing Paddock at the scene? With the US public’s distrust of establishment spin and lies so high, surely that would be the logical thing to do to quell rising suspicion rather than “He’s the lone gunman. Take our word for it!”?
Final comment: here’s a good compliation of witness testimony and police scanner recordings if anyone with an open mind cares to review it: https://www.sott.net/article/364990-Las-Vegas-Terror-Attack-Clear-Evidence-of-Multiple-Shooters-at-Multiple-Hotels
Making so much effort to be so close minded. And the Chomsky reference, beautiful.
I think you should contact him, see what he says.
that’s what passes for a rebuttal these days? You haven’t even reviewed the above link, have you?
I shouldn’t really indulge your throwaway comment about what Chomsky thinks as your clearly not lookig for genuine debate, but for what its worth, the only reference I’ve seen him make is refering to Paddock on his official Facebook page as an “alleged shooter”.
But thinking back to only last March, he had no qualms about warning America that the Trump administration may stage a false flag terror attack in order to consolidate power and further strip US citizens of their constitutional rights. So I think it would be reasonable enough to assume he’s keeping an open mind to all possibilities. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46753.htm
Again, making great efforts to put a particular slant on events, with an awful lot of noise, and very little to show for it.
Can you not see?
You’re not a skeptic.
This comment is more for any neutral reader who might be reading as AKB seems incapable of properly debating any of the issues. Dismissive putdowns is more his/her style.
To quote from the article previously linked to (https://www.sott.net/article/364990-Las-Vegas-Terror-Attack-Clear-Evidence-of-Multiple-Shooters-at-Multiple-Hotels) :
“The key point with respect to timing is that Stephen Paddock was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound at 11:20pm, right around the time an explosion of reports about gunfire at other locations comes through on the scanner… reports come in of gunfire at the Aria, the Paris, the Bellagio, and Caesar’s Palace, which is some 1.7 miles (2.7km) north of the Mandalay Bay …It’s this intense activity at locations north of the festival venue and the Mandalay Bay (which continued into the early morning hours) that has been completely excised from the official version of events in Vegas that night. If these were indeed ‘false reports’ generated by confusion following the venue massacre, then there should be no evidence of gunfire at other locations. But citizens who were there say otherwise.”. (see article for witness testimonies/videos)
You’re actually serious?
You seriously think a neutral reader has nothing better to do than go down a conspiracy nutcase rabbithole with you?
yawn.. ad hominem attack – the last refuge of the smug, close-minded types.. my previous comment was obviously not directed at you
I don’t know why I’m bothering but
To the neutral reader,*
That link from f_lawless sends you to a guy who thinks the Aurora shooting, the Boston marathon bombings and Sandy Hook were all False-Flags.
*(Who I’m sure exists and is visiting this old page and neutrally reading all these comments avidly.)
you’re gas too! I mention ad hominem and what do you do? Indulge yourself in the very same thing. Rather than just let someone assess for themselves the evidence that’s in the public realm as presented in the link I shared, for some reason, you feel compelled to dissuade them from looking by trying to cast dispersions on the character of the person that wrote the article. Is that how you usually try to win arguments? Why are you so reluctant to debate the issues raised? eg. the reports by numerous witnesses of shooting events in various locations around Vegas up to 2 hours after the Mandalay incident which is in line with the police scanner feeds of the same period. Cognitive dissonance?
No one else is probably reading any of this, I’m just curious of your mindset.
Cast dispersions? Take an aspirin. Or a disprin
I’ve a deconstructive mindset, I think.
I also have a mindset that is informed by my slow ability to mold thoughts into words, by my adequate but occasionally clumsy cognitive skills, by my medium to high intelligence and (by the standards of those around me) a high level of empathy. I lack a significant amount of emotional intelligence in key areas. Usually most noteable when dealing with conflict, particularly when the other person exhibits a certain economic/employment status/social capital that outranks my own. I have problems sleeping at night. I’m a single, white, middle class male. I can feel lonely sometimes. I like to be right.
Have you considered the possibility that the ‘facts’ in that article (by the guy who thinks Sandy Hook etc were false flags) might be a preferred selection of alleged facts to suit a particular narrative and, yunno, mightn’t be facts at all, or not fully representative of what really happened at all?
Have you considered that you’re doing the same thing, because you clearly want to believe it’s true, an awful lot?
Have you considered that this might be a reasonable assessment, of both the article and the great noise you have posted here, by people other than yourself, and that is why people don’t want to go down an argumentative black hole with you based on a dodgy foundation of preferential ‘facts’ you, the false flag believer, supplies?