Terrible picture of Martin on the front of the The Times.
Lilly
Oh I dunno. Think they caught him at quite a flattering angle. Another ‘quit your job, it’s pointless’ book. I’m intrigued. I know a guy who swears by the ‘4-hour work week’ but he’s on about €182 a week, surviving on which takes no small amount of ingenuity.
newsjustin
Martin is living in cloud cuckoo land if he thinks his FF parliamentary party will nod through abortion on demand up to 12 weeks.
Because remember, as people never tire of telling us, this referendum vote isn’t about 12 weeks (lol) it’s just about repealing the 8th (into some kind of neutral vacumn). If that’s true then FF have the perfect excuse for throwing out Simon and Leo’s super-aborto bill and starting again.
Frilly Keane
Where are ya going wi’ yer Super Aborto Bill
The draft legislation currently proposes something very strict and controlled
Calm da’ úck down
Besides
It looks like Meehall there is looking to burn his own house down
Like
See who has the balls to give him a run
newsjustin
Hahaha. Good one Frilly.
Frilly Keane
Ta very much Justine
Nice ta get positive feedback every now and again
I think it’s just as dangerous to leave a vacuum. We need to legislate for it because we’ve seen how dangerous it can be when there are no clear guidelines. As for FF, I can’t answer. I’ve never been a fan of theirs. I suspect that it will be politically quite dangerous of them to fight any proposed legislation on abortion. They have to look to the next GE.
newsjustin
It’s a good job Simon and Leo are up front about the abortion legislation now so. Abortion on demand up to 12 weeks. De-facto UK style abortion with the nod of 2 doctors up to 6 months.
mildred st. meadowlark
And the earth shall quake and crack open and the sons of demons shall wreak their havoc upon the cowering masses.
The sky will turn purple and the seas shall roil with a tempest of emption and wrath.
And there shall be abortion and rivers of blood shall run through the streets whilst the echoing cries of ruin chase through the courtyards of power.
So it shall be if the 8th is repealed.
mildred st. meadowlark
The prognostications of doom and gloom can be a bit overwrought at times around referendum time I think.
Let’s see what legislation is brought in if the ref passes. Because the thing about legislation is that it can be amended and tailored to fit. This is much harder to do with the 8th in place.
SOQ
Yes the gays should be snatching babies from prams and raping everybody by now.
Sorry about that, we’ve got a bit distracted. We’ll get right on it.
Get back here with my baby you thief! I haven’t had a chance to abort it yet.
-An actual, real life account life in Ireland post 8th amendment.
Nigel
Parents be chasing after the gays waving the prams yelling ‘No, come back, you’ll need this!’
david
To Bertie
The HSE is capable of anything as we are reading in the media every day
And the government is colluding with them
And you simply cannot refute that
And you want them to decide the destiny Of all in the future
You are madder than I thought
SOQ
Given their lack of enthusiasm for equal marriage and now their leader admitting that most of their pro choice TDs are in the closet (see what I done there?), it is proof if needed that FF are way more socially conservative than FG. I was going to say of all three main parties but SF are a very broad church in that regard.
But, does repealing the 8th not mean a legal vacuum if not followed up with immediate legislation? There is the possibility of a doctor being in a situation, the actions of which could be pursued at a later date.
ReproBertie (SCU)
Or would the Retain TDs delaying the bill mean limitless access to abortion until it passes?
david
So gays will be raping everyone will they
And stealing babies
I would call you homophobic
But in the realms of debate SOQ since the eight amendment is law and must be repealed in order to save women lives
Please explain why legal terminations are practiced in Irish hospitals
Google the number from data released by the HSE
In 2016 alone 26 terminations were conducted legally in Irish hospitals on the island of Ireland?
Nigel
Surely the reasons are with the HSE data? What does it say were the reasons?
david
We are talking about legal abortions as the eight is law
The repeal mob state no woman can have a legal termination because of the eight
So its a pack of lies otherwise the doctors would be in jail and struck off
So Nigel you and your ilk have been caught out
ReproBertie (SCU)
“you and your ilk have been caught out”
Hilarious.
At the moment abortions are allowed in Ireland if there is a direct threat to the life of the mother. This can mean denying a woman an abortion until she’s on death’s door. Removing the 8th means doctors can act sooner when the woman’s health is in danger.
Nigel
You’ve caught yourself out. The stark fact is this: women need access to abortions as part of their health care, EVEN under the restrictive anti-abortion regime here in Ireland. Those figures prove it.
Starina
babes i’m pretty sure soq is gay. but i’m definitely sure he was being facetious
SOQ
Shhhh. Let him rant on. He’s only here to act as white noise anyways.
david
What is equal marriage SOQ?
Define it
Nigel
A horse and carriage.
david
I think in your case Nigel its a pony and trap
Nigel
You can’t have one without the other
SOQ
Where two men or two women are as miserable as their srt8 counterparts?
david
God your relationship must be built on shifting sands
Mine is rock solid and we have been through the mill
You see love is like if you are hanging over a cliff and your partner is holding you to stop you falling even if they fall as well ,but you chop off your own hand rather than dragging them to their doom
True love is trust respect giving and loving that person more and more each day
Sad you do not have that SOQ
SOQ
Oh sweet Jazus, it was a joke. Are you this negative and miserable in real life too? I expect you are.
Papi
What a strange and depressing way to see love.
david
Correct
We are expected to trust this shower to put in a law that will not open this country to abuse
Like getting a scan to check the baby is grand then when the scan reveals the baby will be disabled mentally or physically, at the most vulnerable time an abortion might be suggested
Lets face it this government care nothing and each day we watch our dail and there is boy Harris speaking crap backing the likes of O’Brien still in office
And then brexit
Housing and everything else
I for one will not vote for these jokers to dilute one bit of our constitution
The whole lot of them must go
ReproBertie (SCU)
“at the most vulnerable time an abortion might be suggested”
And once again david demonstrates how little he understand the issue by bringing up his total fabrication about the HSE in the future bullying women into having abortions.
newsjustin
It’s interesting. As of this morning both David Norris and Nell McCafferty have (to their credit) come out and said yes – an abortion is a deliberate killing. Yet pro-repealers still put their fingers in their ears and sing “clump of cells, clump of cells, clump of cells”.
mildred st. meadowlark
No, they’re stating facts. Abortion is the killing of a foetus. It is accepting that the mother, up to a point, has a greater right to life than a foetus that is incapable of independent existence at 12 weeks.
No one is trying to deny that statement despite what you like to posit.
newsjustin
Pro choice advocates routinuely and brazenly claim that an abortion kills nothing and is akin to cutting one’s toe nails. You know this Mildred. You know this view is not uncommon.
mildred st. meadowlark
No actually I don’t, justin.
I very very rarely encounter that view, particularly among irish women I’ve spoken to. Women know far better than men what abortion means and what it does.
david
And why should a loving husband also have a say on his Childs life?
Or to you fathers should have no rights in weather their child lives or dies
What happens if out of spite the mother decides to abort that child?
Sheik Yahbouti
And there it is….dem wimmin will have abortions willy nilly, just out of spite! You Just can’t trust dem wimmin.
mildred st. meadowlark
I have no problems with men david. I was simply addressing newsjustins point regarding women seeing foetus’ as equal to clipping your toenails. The rest is all your own assumption.
ReproBertie (SCU)
david hates those spiteful women so much he’s happy to vote for more of them to die.
Sheik Yahbouti
Quite so. It is vital to supervise de wimmin, to maintain strict control of them, otherwise Lord knows what they’d get up to.
Janet, I ate my Avatar
out of spite no less
david
Do they now
Its killing what could be a baby
Fact of life
If anyone killed a child there would be uproar
But killing what could grow to be a child is OK is it
And you and your ilk want people to sign that into law by removing the constitutional right for a foetus to be born as a baby
That is what the repeal the eight mob want
Nigel
Get back to us when they start appearing on posters outside maternity hospitals.
david
Bertie
When a relationship is on the rocks people get nasty
So nastiness can lead to divorce
people get divorced and spite comes from both sides, as who blames who and people react.
And spite could be I will abort this baby to hurt my husband, a possible scenario driven by hurt and anger.
Everyday people split up
I am just stating fact and you cannot dispute this so you, call me a women hater a spiteful hateful person
Refrain from insults for you loose and frankly come across as an idiot
And Mildred’s sounding like one of those religious fire and brimstone characters from a mel brooks film
mildred st. meadowlark
It’s a Monty Python film david. I was being satirical. Perhaps you missed the point.
ReproBertie (SCU)
Where’s the “loving husband” in this nasty spite-filled divorce fantasy of yours?
You’re not “just stating fact” when you say “out of spite the mother decides to abort that child”. What you’re doing there is tossing out the same anti-woman rhetoric that believes women get abortions because they are going on holiday. Women don’t get abortions on a whim.
I wasn’t insulting you. I was “just stating a fact” based on reading your comments.
Nigel
Nasty enough to have an abortio purely for spite? He’s well out of that relationship I’d say.
Starina
you tell yourself we think that in order to make yourself feel morally superior. the vast, vast majority of pro-choice voters know exactly what abortion is, in relation to the life of a foetus. abortion is not fun or easy.
david
26 legal abortions in Irish hospitals in 2016were performed
Explain this ?
Then after you explain this that women cannot access terminations in Ireland on health grounds then why these were legal and the doctors not arrested?
Then you can start your insults
Cyber bulling starts with the ignorant who cannot argue then resort to name calling
david
Starina
I do not feel morally superior,
But I ask you do you feel morally inferior.
You keep on saying abortion is not fun or easy
Do you not think I know that
I am talking about my views and what I live my life by and you have a neck to judge me and ridicule me
As a child I always spoke my mind and as a small child I was bullied and madam you remind me of a bully
They ridicule and force their opinion and beliefs on others to what they believe and want
Seen as you are quite the expert
At what time dose the embryo start to exist and develop to a foetus if its not alive, then when dose the foetus become live, if it is not alive at a previous stage
Your argument actually defies nature
Sheik Yahbouti
So EVERYBODY is bullying you, by not agreeing with you. Live your life according to your ‘values and principles ‘. Do not presume to tell others how to live their lives.
Starina
bish i wasn’t talking to you, i was talking to Newsjustin
Fiona
I have to agree with you on this point newsjustin. I do not agree with abortion personally, for myself but respect others right to choose. Im finding it difficult to vote ‘YES’ especially when reading quite disgusting comments on social media forums etc, playing down what is, no matter which ‘side’ you’re on, the taking of a life. I have had to organise abortions on two occasions (not for myself, obviously) not an easy thing to live with. This is just my opinion, not out to ruffle feathers or cause arguments.
newsjustin
The foetus as a parasite is another not uncommon trope amongst wilfully ignorant pro repeal people.
Nigel
It seems clear to me that you know what the right thing to do here is and I would urge you to stick with it regardless of the tone of some online comments. Sadly I think it’s going to get worse before it gets better.
Fiona
Thank you Nigel.
david
26 abortions were carried out in this state in 2016 for exactly that reason
The mothers life was in danger, the year before I think the similar amount then in 2017 again
Now if under the eight amendment mothers lives at risk was no grounds for an abortion then these abortions were illegal
Now Mildred and all others and even Vanessa for an please explain this for unless there is provision for termination each and every one of those doctors should be arrested and charged with murder and the dis barred
You see none of you can explain this because women can access termination as the protection stands under the eight ammendment
ReproBertie (SCU)
it’s surprisingly easy to explain david. Now read carefully. The 25 abortions carried out in Ireland in 2016 were due to a direct threat to the mother’s life. That’s not the same thing as a threat to her health. The 8th means withholding medical care until the mother’s life is in immediate danger.
david
Without a foetus you cannot give birth
Mildred did they teach you at school about biology
I suppose a baby is gestated in a jar to you
mildred st. meadowlark
What? I’m well aware of how a child develops. I’ve outlined previously how my daughter’s premature birth affected her health and how without a long stint in the NICU was necessary to ensure she actually survived longer than a few hours after her birth. I’d wager that I have a better understanding than you.
SOQ
Heard someone on the BBC recently describe Brexit as a black and white vote on a rainbow of issues, which is exactly what the Love Boat crew are trying to do with this referendum.
Common sense should tell you that taking a morning after pill to ‘kill’ an 8 hour embryo is not the same as aborting an 8 month fetus. Otherwise, that pill would not be available.
These types of contraception that prevent implantation of the embryo are not viewed by the medical profession as abortion:
“Emergency contraception works by preventing pregnancy, it does not cause an abortion”
(However, the Catholic Church believes life begins at conception and not implantation so there has been some confusion as Catholics have already denounced this emergency contraception as abortion.)
Emergency contraception is already legal in Ireland.
SOQ
Yes and that is my point. If you believe that life begins at conception then the morning after pill is potentially an abortion. Otherwise, you believe that life begins sometime later. The Catholics don’t believe in using contraception either of course, including condoms.
Starina
oh, the mysteries of the dark, unholy recesses of the feminine body! thank the Lord the church is here to illuminate us on its workings!
Martco
I’m hearing voxpops on the radio today of some wan claiming now that 1 in 4 babies are aborted in Engerland. jase we’d want to be careful…soon it’ll be 5 outof every 4.
newsjustin
You can’t hide behind what the RCC does or doesn’t believe any more Starina. Science can now tell you without a shred of doubt that a new human is formed at conception (just refer to Peter Boylan’s confirmation of this fact last weekend). Science can tell you that the new human’s heart starts to beat at around 21 days. Science can show you a 4d scan of the new human.
It’ll just get harder and harder for you to deny the unborn’s humanity and justify it’s killing.
Lilly
Celibacy in fact is murder. People everywhere should be copulating like rabbits during their reproductive years so that no sperm or egg in the universe is ever thwarted.
SOQ
Justin you never answer this question: If someone is brain dead, is the switching off of a support machine the taking of life?
david
26 legal abortions in Irish hospitals in 2016 because of danger to the mothers health
Explain how this happened under the eight amendment and why if so the eight must be removed
Nigel
Because it proves even under the disastrous restrictive and unfit-for-purpose 8th amendment the right to have access to termination of pregnancy is a vital part of women’s health care.
SOQ
The 8th allows for termination of pregnancy if the mother’s life is in danger is why, but even then the definition of ‘in danger’ is so vague that a lot of doctors won’t risk it.
What the 8th prevents is an abortion even when there is clear evidence that continuing the pregnancy will do serious and permanent damage the woman’s health. That is unacceptable.
david
To me to allow little Leo verruca and his Ireland’s got talent cabinet near our constitution will be a crime against humanity
Bob
david could you just once spell Leo’s name correctly, or are you unable to spell?
from your earlier comments you don’t seem to understand the difference between “weather” and “whether” and your arguments are as lazy and unconvincing as your spelling is terrible.
B.BLACK
+1.
GiggidyGoo
And what do you say to his point?
Janet, I ate my Avatar
which inane point would that be ?
There would have to be a comprehensible beginning, middle and end for there to be a point.
david
Here we go
So what little Leo verruca
Leo the cheque is in the post varadka
All lampooning him
Weather or whether is nothing
Now seen as you are so intelligent and not lazy
Please explain
If the eighth ammendment in its present form was the reason savita was refused treatment to save her life, why in 2016 for example 26 abortions were carried out in hospitals in this state to save the mothers life.
These are figures released by the HSE
So please since you are not lazy will you answer the question bob
Or are you a person who without thinking do what people tell you
Bob
You’ve failed to spell Leo Varadkar correctly.
If you aren’t going to take this even a little bit seriously I don’t see why anyone should be expect to take you seriously either and spend any time or effort to engage with you or your arguments.
Why hasn’t this policy caused david to be blocked by now?
mildred st. meadowlark
Excellent case in point, actually.
Sheik Yahbouti
Bob, I have NO idea. There are a couple of posters here who do my head in, but are well received by the forum in general. I am well aware that I’m not one of the popular posters but like to believe that I don’t relentlessly bore and spam the forum and that my contributions are sporadic enough not to offend. However there are now some eggregious spammer(s) who are spoiling people’s enjoyment – the solution is with BS.
Fiona
Newsjustin, the part I find difficult to take on board, is that women who already have a child / children, are making some of these comments. They have previously gone through all that pregnancy entails, to bring a child into the world, willing him or her to grow, to kick on a day when the baby hasn’t been as active as they normally are etc etc and then they are posting comments that are so detached and devoid of any humanity online.
Martco
well thank goodness you’re on patrol online Fiona to fill that void of humanity, eh?
I guess it must be very worrying for you & good old Justin there that you’re possibly about to lose control of what some of your fellow citizens are doing with their private bodily affairs….but dontcha worry though, no need for the hand wringing, the world isn’t going to fall apart…I’m confident your peers will make the right choice for themselves.
and I’m very confident that my vote holds exactly the same value as yours (or Justin’s there) in the coming referendum! thank goodness!
now then, there’s a beautiful sunny day outside & a timely bank holiday Monday to be enjoyed, why not grab some sun?
+++++++++++++++++++++
oh and a reminder to everyone…DON’T ASSUME YOU ARE REGISTERED TO VOTE!!!
to verify…I know someone in my own family who was very surprised to learn today they weren’t as they’d voted at last GE & hadn’t moved house or anything & assumed all was well…turns out they’d only registered last minute at that GE & for some reason it hasn’t carried over, BEWARE!
easily fixed but get to it before end of Tuesday
have a nice weekend broadsheeters!
Fiona
Martco, nobody is patrolling, be as obnoxiously sneering as you like, that’s your affair. There was actually no need to be so unpleasant, my observations are just as relevant as yours.
Sheik Yahbouti
Is that you, david? Spitting out the dummy when disagreement arises.
david
No sheik
Just because my points are opposite to yours ,my voice like yours must be tolerated
We are talking about our constitution and when protection is removed abuses can be the result
Who would of believed in 1934 Germany could have industrial death camps and abort kill any human the third Reich decided was sub human
Who knows what will come to power in the future
You might find this boring
I assume the German people when they elected Hitler had the same view, they thought this could never happen. But sadly it did
The day peoples voices are silenced is the day democracy is no longer there
You accused mothers who support repealing the 8th of being detached and devoid of humanity. That’s actually pretty obnoxious. Were you referring to commenters here?
Fiona
I said some of the nasty comments are made by mothers, which is true. That’s not obnoxious, that’s the truth.
There are some made on BS, yes, they’re made on here most days.
david
Nigel twisting words again
Just point out the exact wording of what I post
If not address the comment not what you twist it to mean
I am pointing out history un deniable fact
Hitler removed the rights to German citizens ,fact and we saw where the extreme led to and that was the death camps
Our constitution has protections that no government can remove, unless the people of Ireland vote to remove these right.
And I will be dammed I will vote to allow this shower in power to introduce abortion on demand.
Martco
ah well now.
as you said yourself your opinion is as relevant as my own, agreed!
in my opinion you are on patrol.
it would also be my opinion that what you wrote was obnoxious claptrap, again see your own declaration there.
have a good evening!
SOQ
Hi Fiona, let’s take a mother of 3-4 children who gets into serious difficulties with her health on the 5th and potentially will not be able to look after herself, let alone her children. Are you saying that woman is devoid of humanity for requesting an abortion?
I say she is doing what most mother’s would do, cutting her losses and hopefully looking after what she already has. THAT is why women who are already mothers support Repeal.
Karina
SOQ, Fiona said some of the COMMENTS made by mothers were detached and devoid of humanity, not the MOTHERS. People just want to go in on anyone that has a different viewpoint though. Mob mentality at its finest.
Karina
Martco, you’re old enough to know better, shame on you.
Martco
?!
wha?
SOQ
I’m not a mob Karina, just one poster and I asked a reasonable question. Perhaps you would like to answer it?
Karina
SOQ, Of course she is not devoid of humanity. That goes without saying.
david
You are part of the mob who accuses all who disagree a nasty evil lot who would have women die rather than terminate a foetus
You cannot even conduct a logical argument
We are talking about our constitution and I for one know if protection is removed for the unborn under our constitution for a free for all then what could be the law that we do not know yet could be far worse.
Suppose the referendum passes
We hear hospitals and doctors can opt out of providing a termination under law
Even our new hospital has a clause stating doctors can refuse,
So what then ?
Still women refused life saving terminations but the protection removed for all unborn
Then the state could put pressure on the most vulnerable to terminate possibly handicapped babies before they are born, simply because the state has to provide the services from cradle to grave for these human beings, and look at the reality of those dependent on the state the horror stories of children with disabilities waiting and waiting the lack of special needs the waiting lists for children needing spinal surgery mentally handicapped, the list goes on ,and on the flick of a pen it can all be solved by preventing the birth of these humans.
Look at the HSE and the smear test scandal and the way they drag out paying compensation till the victim is dead and buried
And to be honest this is how low I think of our government and how low they would stoop
This is the reality and you cannot argue this could not happen
So we vote and hope that this shower and future lots will do the right thing for our people
Frankly look at the bust and what these muppets allowed to happen to our country
Look at scandal after scandal
david
Like you answer my questions twisting them to mean the opposite of what they are
Even my point about love ,when I said about the abyss scenario
Love is knowing your partner would actually do that for you.
And that’s one thing you would never expect them to do.
But knowing that about what your partner would do for you.
Now that is neither miserable or selfish
I have that with my wife who I would die for, it is sacred
You know you of the mob are just like sheep ,you do not realise the implications
We do not need to remove the eight amendment
We can revise it and ensure those doctors in hospitals do what they are employed to do and not use arguments before saving lives because their ethos stands in the way of life saving treatment of their patients
There is no room for these doctors that refused to save savita’s life because of definition of what constitutes a dead foetus which was poisoning savita halipanan
In another hospital and under different doctors she would of been alive today
Starina
how about mothers who already have children who can’t afford another and know it would be unfair to the wellbeing child they already have to have another baby right at that time?! let me tell you from experience that there’s a lot of damn guilt involved and perfect knowledge of exactly what’s happening when a termination is sought. back in your cage, kitty.
Fiona
I’m not David, no. I’m allowed an opinion, as are you.
Lilly
Have any of you read ‘I was Ann Lovett’s boyfriend’ in today’s Irish Times? Why does he think he may have been the father of her child? The timing of her rape – and accounts from Granard at the time – suggest otherwise. Such a sad account of a pernicious time and place, with priests and police as usual covering themselves in glory.
ReproBertie (SCU)
Just finished it. Heart wrenching stuff. That poor child.
No idea on the fatherhood thing. Hard to judge when we’re hearing one side. Perhaps there was something in the letter?
Lilly
Yes, maybe. Great pic of her. It feels as if she was giving Ireland, the sow that eats her farrow, the finger. What a loss.
Lilly
Also worth a read, a Facebook post from his daughter describing the ripple effect.
Terrible picture of Martin on the front of the The Times.
Oh I dunno. Think they caught him at quite a flattering angle. Another ‘quit your job, it’s pointless’ book. I’m intrigued. I know a guy who swears by the ‘4-hour work week’ but he’s on about €182 a week, surviving on which takes no small amount of ingenuity.
Martin is living in cloud cuckoo land if he thinks his FF parliamentary party will nod through abortion on demand up to 12 weeks.
Because remember, as people never tire of telling us, this referendum vote isn’t about 12 weeks (lol) it’s just about repealing the 8th (into some kind of neutral vacumn). If that’s true then FF have the perfect excuse for throwing out Simon and Leo’s super-aborto bill and starting again.
Where are ya going wi’ yer Super Aborto Bill
The draft legislation currently proposes something very strict and controlled
Calm da’ úck down
Besides
It looks like Meehall there is looking to burn his own house down
Like
See who has the balls to give him a run
Hahaha. Good one Frilly.
Ta very much Justine
Nice ta get positive feedback every now and again
You’re starting to sound like this guy…
https://youtu.be/D8WmvMCTW_g
You think the FF party – the parliamentary party or the membership will pass the legislation as it currently stands?
Do you think the Retain side of FF will be needed when most of FG, Lab, SF, SD, the PBP alliance and the independents are supporting the bill?
And you know this for fact.
The only time you can say that is when you actually see the ballot paper they cast
Oh the irony of david “the HSE will bully women into abortions” looking for facts.
Nobody knows for sure until they vote david (they don’t use ballot papers by the way) but the numbers in the Oireachtas are on Repeal’s side.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/referendum-tracker
I think you misunderstood my joke? Nevermind.
I think it’s just as dangerous to leave a vacuum. We need to legislate for it because we’ve seen how dangerous it can be when there are no clear guidelines. As for FF, I can’t answer. I’ve never been a fan of theirs. I suspect that it will be politically quite dangerous of them to fight any proposed legislation on abortion. They have to look to the next GE.
It’s a good job Simon and Leo are up front about the abortion legislation now so. Abortion on demand up to 12 weeks. De-facto UK style abortion with the nod of 2 doctors up to 6 months.
And the earth shall quake and crack open and the sons of demons shall wreak their havoc upon the cowering masses.
The sky will turn purple and the seas shall roil with a tempest of emption and wrath.
And there shall be abortion and rivers of blood shall run through the streets whilst the echoing cries of ruin chase through the courtyards of power.
So it shall be if the 8th is repealed.
The prognostications of doom and gloom can be a bit overwrought at times around referendum time I think.
Let’s see what legislation is brought in if the ref passes. Because the thing about legislation is that it can be amended and tailored to fit. This is much harder to do with the 8th in place.
Yes the gays should be snatching babies from prams and raping everybody by now.
Sorry about that, we’ve got a bit distracted. We’ll get right on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnaVoTfkqa8
Get back here with my baby you thief! I haven’t had a chance to abort it yet.
-An actual, real life account life in Ireland post 8th amendment.
Parents be chasing after the gays waving the prams yelling ‘No, come back, you’ll need this!’
To Bertie
The HSE is capable of anything as we are reading in the media every day
And the government is colluding with them
And you simply cannot refute that
And you want them to decide the destiny Of all in the future
You are madder than I thought
Given their lack of enthusiasm for equal marriage and now their leader admitting that most of their pro choice TDs are in the closet (see what I done there?), it is proof if needed that FF are way more socially conservative than FG. I was going to say of all three main parties but SF are a very broad church in that regard.
But, does repealing the 8th not mean a legal vacuum if not followed up with immediate legislation? There is the possibility of a doctor being in a situation, the actions of which could be pursued at a later date.
Or would the Retain TDs delaying the bill mean limitless access to abortion until it passes?
So gays will be raping everyone will they
And stealing babies
I would call you homophobic
But in the realms of debate SOQ since the eight amendment is law and must be repealed in order to save women lives
Please explain why legal terminations are practiced in Irish hospitals
Google the number from data released by the HSE
In 2016 alone 26 terminations were conducted legally in Irish hospitals on the island of Ireland?
Surely the reasons are with the HSE data? What does it say were the reasons?
We are talking about legal abortions as the eight is law
The repeal mob state no woman can have a legal termination because of the eight
So its a pack of lies otherwise the doctors would be in jail and struck off
So Nigel you and your ilk have been caught out
“you and your ilk have been caught out”
Hilarious.
At the moment abortions are allowed in Ireland if there is a direct threat to the life of the mother. This can mean denying a woman an abortion until she’s on death’s door. Removing the 8th means doctors can act sooner when the woman’s health is in danger.
You’ve caught yourself out. The stark fact is this: women need access to abortions as part of their health care, EVEN under the restrictive anti-abortion regime here in Ireland. Those figures prove it.
babes i’m pretty sure soq is gay. but i’m definitely sure he was being facetious
Shhhh. Let him rant on. He’s only here to act as white noise anyways.
What is equal marriage SOQ?
Define it
A horse and carriage.
I think in your case Nigel its a pony and trap
You can’t have one without the other
Where two men or two women are as miserable as their srt8 counterparts?
God your relationship must be built on shifting sands
Mine is rock solid and we have been through the mill
You see love is like if you are hanging over a cliff and your partner is holding you to stop you falling even if they fall as well ,but you chop off your own hand rather than dragging them to their doom
True love is trust respect giving and loving that person more and more each day
Sad you do not have that SOQ
Oh sweet Jazus, it was a joke. Are you this negative and miserable in real life too? I expect you are.
What a strange and depressing way to see love.
Correct
We are expected to trust this shower to put in a law that will not open this country to abuse
Like getting a scan to check the baby is grand then when the scan reveals the baby will be disabled mentally or physically, at the most vulnerable time an abortion might be suggested
Lets face it this government care nothing and each day we watch our dail and there is boy Harris speaking crap backing the likes of O’Brien still in office
And then brexit
Housing and everything else
I for one will not vote for these jokers to dilute one bit of our constitution
The whole lot of them must go
“at the most vulnerable time an abortion might be suggested”
And once again david demonstrates how little he understand the issue by bringing up his total fabrication about the HSE in the future bullying women into having abortions.
It’s interesting. As of this morning both David Norris and Nell McCafferty have (to their credit) come out and said yes – an abortion is a deliberate killing. Yet pro-repealers still put their fingers in their ears and sing “clump of cells, clump of cells, clump of cells”.
No, they’re stating facts. Abortion is the killing of a foetus. It is accepting that the mother, up to a point, has a greater right to life than a foetus that is incapable of independent existence at 12 weeks.
No one is trying to deny that statement despite what you like to posit.
Pro choice advocates routinuely and brazenly claim that an abortion kills nothing and is akin to cutting one’s toe nails. You know this Mildred. You know this view is not uncommon.
No actually I don’t, justin.
I very very rarely encounter that view, particularly among irish women I’ve spoken to. Women know far better than men what abortion means and what it does.
And why should a loving husband also have a say on his Childs life?
Or to you fathers should have no rights in weather their child lives or dies
What happens if out of spite the mother decides to abort that child?
And there it is….dem wimmin will have abortions willy nilly, just out of spite! You Just can’t trust dem wimmin.
I have no problems with men david. I was simply addressing newsjustins point regarding women seeing foetus’ as equal to clipping your toenails. The rest is all your own assumption.
david hates those spiteful women so much he’s happy to vote for more of them to die.
Quite so. It is vital to supervise de wimmin, to maintain strict control of them, otherwise Lord knows what they’d get up to.
out of spite no less
Do they now
Its killing what could be a baby
Fact of life
If anyone killed a child there would be uproar
But killing what could grow to be a child is OK is it
And you and your ilk want people to sign that into law by removing the constitutional right for a foetus to be born as a baby
That is what the repeal the eight mob want
Get back to us when they start appearing on posters outside maternity hospitals.
Bertie
When a relationship is on the rocks people get nasty
So nastiness can lead to divorce
people get divorced and spite comes from both sides, as who blames who and people react.
And spite could be I will abort this baby to hurt my husband, a possible scenario driven by hurt and anger.
Everyday people split up
I am just stating fact and you cannot dispute this so you, call me a women hater a spiteful hateful person
Refrain from insults for you loose and frankly come across as an idiot
And Mildred’s sounding like one of those religious fire and brimstone characters from a mel brooks film
It’s a Monty Python film david. I was being satirical. Perhaps you missed the point.
Where’s the “loving husband” in this nasty spite-filled divorce fantasy of yours?
You’re not “just stating fact” when you say “out of spite the mother decides to abort that child”. What you’re doing there is tossing out the same anti-woman rhetoric that believes women get abortions because they are going on holiday. Women don’t get abortions on a whim.
I wasn’t insulting you. I was “just stating a fact” based on reading your comments.
Nasty enough to have an abortio purely for spite? He’s well out of that relationship I’d say.
you tell yourself we think that in order to make yourself feel morally superior. the vast, vast majority of pro-choice voters know exactly what abortion is, in relation to the life of a foetus. abortion is not fun or easy.
26 legal abortions in Irish hospitals in 2016were performed
Explain this ?
Then after you explain this that women cannot access terminations in Ireland on health grounds then why these were legal and the doctors not arrested?
Then you can start your insults
Cyber bulling starts with the ignorant who cannot argue then resort to name calling
Starina
I do not feel morally superior,
But I ask you do you feel morally inferior.
You keep on saying abortion is not fun or easy
Do you not think I know that
I am talking about my views and what I live my life by and you have a neck to judge me and ridicule me
As a child I always spoke my mind and as a small child I was bullied and madam you remind me of a bully
They ridicule and force their opinion and beliefs on others to what they believe and want
Seen as you are quite the expert
At what time dose the embryo start to exist and develop to a foetus if its not alive, then when dose the foetus become live, if it is not alive at a previous stage
Your argument actually defies nature
So EVERYBODY is bullying you, by not agreeing with you. Live your life according to your ‘values and principles ‘. Do not presume to tell others how to live their lives.
bish i wasn’t talking to you, i was talking to Newsjustin
I have to agree with you on this point newsjustin. I do not agree with abortion personally, for myself but respect others right to choose. Im finding it difficult to vote ‘YES’ especially when reading quite disgusting comments on social media forums etc, playing down what is, no matter which ‘side’ you’re on, the taking of a life. I have had to organise abortions on two occasions (not for myself, obviously) not an easy thing to live with. This is just my opinion, not out to ruffle feathers or cause arguments.
The foetus as a parasite is another not uncommon trope amongst wilfully ignorant pro repeal people.
It seems clear to me that you know what the right thing to do here is and I would urge you to stick with it regardless of the tone of some online comments. Sadly I think it’s going to get worse before it gets better.
Thank you Nigel.
26 abortions were carried out in this state in 2016 for exactly that reason
The mothers life was in danger, the year before I think the similar amount then in 2017 again
Now if under the eight amendment mothers lives at risk was no grounds for an abortion then these abortions were illegal
Now Mildred and all others and even Vanessa for an please explain this for unless there is provision for termination each and every one of those doctors should be arrested and charged with murder and the dis barred
You see none of you can explain this because women can access termination as the protection stands under the eight ammendment
it’s surprisingly easy to explain david. Now read carefully. The 25 abortions carried out in Ireland in 2016 were due to a direct threat to the mother’s life. That’s not the same thing as a threat to her health. The 8th means withholding medical care until the mother’s life is in immediate danger.
Without a foetus you cannot give birth
Mildred did they teach you at school about biology
I suppose a baby is gestated in a jar to you
What? I’m well aware of how a child develops. I’ve outlined previously how my daughter’s premature birth affected her health and how without a long stint in the NICU was necessary to ensure she actually survived longer than a few hours after her birth. I’d wager that I have a better understanding than you.
Heard someone on the BBC recently describe Brexit as a black and white vote on a rainbow of issues, which is exactly what the Love Boat crew are trying to do with this referendum.
Common sense should tell you that taking a morning after pill to ‘kill’ an 8 hour embryo is not the same as aborting an 8 month fetus. Otherwise, that pill would not be available.
Repealing the 8th is not about emergency contraception, two types of morning after pill and the coil are already available in Ireland as emergency contraception
https://www.ifpa.ie/Sexual-Health-Services/Contraception-Factsheets/Emergency-Contraception
These types of contraception that prevent implantation of the embryo are not viewed by the medical profession as abortion:
“Emergency contraception works by preventing pregnancy, it does not cause an abortion”
(However, the Catholic Church believes life begins at conception and not implantation so there has been some confusion as Catholics have already denounced this emergency contraception as abortion.)
Emergency contraception is already legal in Ireland.
Yes and that is my point. If you believe that life begins at conception then the morning after pill is potentially an abortion. Otherwise, you believe that life begins sometime later. The Catholics don’t believe in using contraception either of course, including condoms.
oh, the mysteries of the dark, unholy recesses of the feminine body! thank the Lord the church is here to illuminate us on its workings!
I’m hearing voxpops on the radio today of some wan claiming now that 1 in 4 babies are aborted in Engerland. jase we’d want to be careful…soon it’ll be 5 outof every 4.
You can’t hide behind what the RCC does or doesn’t believe any more Starina. Science can now tell you without a shred of doubt that a new human is formed at conception (just refer to Peter Boylan’s confirmation of this fact last weekend). Science can tell you that the new human’s heart starts to beat at around 21 days. Science can show you a 4d scan of the new human.
It’ll just get harder and harder for you to deny the unborn’s humanity and justify it’s killing.
Celibacy in fact is murder. People everywhere should be copulating like rabbits during their reproductive years so that no sperm or egg in the universe is ever thwarted.
Justin you never answer this question: If someone is brain dead, is the switching off of a support machine the taking of life?
26 legal abortions in Irish hospitals in 2016 because of danger to the mothers health
Explain how this happened under the eight amendment and why if so the eight must be removed
Because it proves even under the disastrous restrictive and unfit-for-purpose 8th amendment the right to have access to termination of pregnancy is a vital part of women’s health care.
The 8th allows for termination of pregnancy if the mother’s life is in danger is why, but even then the definition of ‘in danger’ is so vague that a lot of doctors won’t risk it.
What the 8th prevents is an abortion even when there is clear evidence that continuing the pregnancy will do serious and permanent damage the woman’s health. That is unacceptable.
To me to allow little Leo verruca and his Ireland’s got talent cabinet near our constitution will be a crime against humanity
david could you just once spell Leo’s name correctly, or are you unable to spell?
from your earlier comments you don’t seem to understand the difference between “weather” and “whether” and your arguments are as lazy and unconvincing as your spelling is terrible.
+1.
And what do you say to his point?
which inane point would that be ?
There would have to be a comprehensible beginning, middle and end for there to be a point.
Here we go
So what little Leo verruca
Leo the cheque is in the post varadka
All lampooning him
Weather or whether is nothing
Now seen as you are so intelligent and not lazy
Please explain
If the eighth ammendment in its present form was the reason savita was refused treatment to save her life, why in 2016 for example 26 abortions were carried out in hospitals in this state to save the mothers life.
These are figures released by the HSE
So please since you are not lazy will you answer the question bob
Or are you a person who without thinking do what people tell you
You’ve failed to spell Leo Varadkar correctly.
If you aren’t going to take this even a little bit seriously I don’t see why anyone should be expect to take you seriously either and spend any time or effort to engage with you or your arguments.
Broadsheet claims to have a policy against “being a relentless, intrusive bore”
https://www.broadsheet.ie/contact/
Why hasn’t this policy caused david to be blocked by now?
Excellent case in point, actually.
Bob, I have NO idea. There are a couple of posters here who do my head in, but are well received by the forum in general. I am well aware that I’m not one of the popular posters but like to believe that I don’t relentlessly bore and spam the forum and that my contributions are sporadic enough not to offend. However there are now some eggregious spammer(s) who are spoiling people’s enjoyment – the solution is with BS.
Newsjustin, the part I find difficult to take on board, is that women who already have a child / children, are making some of these comments. They have previously gone through all that pregnancy entails, to bring a child into the world, willing him or her to grow, to kick on a day when the baby hasn’t been as active as they normally are etc etc and then they are posting comments that are so detached and devoid of any humanity online.
well thank goodness you’re on patrol online Fiona to fill that void of humanity, eh?
I guess it must be very worrying for you & good old Justin there that you’re possibly about to lose control of what some of your fellow citizens are doing with their private bodily affairs….but dontcha worry though, no need for the hand wringing, the world isn’t going to fall apart…I’m confident your peers will make the right choice for themselves.
and I’m very confident that my vote holds exactly the same value as yours (or Justin’s there) in the coming referendum! thank goodness!
now then, there’s a beautiful sunny day outside & a timely bank holiday Monday to be enjoyed, why not grab some sun?
+++++++++++++++++++++
oh and a reminder to everyone…DON’T ASSUME YOU ARE REGISTERED TO VOTE!!!
http://www.checktheregister.ie
to verify…I know someone in my own family who was very surprised to learn today they weren’t as they’d voted at last GE & hadn’t moved house or anything & assumed all was well…turns out they’d only registered last minute at that GE & for some reason it hasn’t carried over, BEWARE!
easily fixed but get to it before end of Tuesday
have a nice weekend broadsheeters!
Martco, nobody is patrolling, be as obnoxiously sneering as you like, that’s your affair. There was actually no need to be so unpleasant, my observations are just as relevant as yours.
Is that you, david? Spitting out the dummy when disagreement arises.
No sheik
Just because my points are opposite to yours ,my voice like yours must be tolerated
We are talking about our constitution and when protection is removed abuses can be the result
Who would of believed in 1934 Germany could have industrial death camps and abort kill any human the third Reich decided was sub human
Who knows what will come to power in the future
You might find this boring
I assume the German people when they elected Hitler had the same view, they thought this could never happen. But sadly it did
The day peoples voices are silenced is the day democracy is no longer there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Germany
You accused mothers who support repealing the 8th of being detached and devoid of humanity. That’s actually pretty obnoxious. Were you referring to commenters here?
I said some of the nasty comments are made by mothers, which is true. That’s not obnoxious, that’s the truth.
There are some made on BS, yes, they’re made on here most days.
Nigel twisting words again
Just point out the exact wording of what I post
If not address the comment not what you twist it to mean
I am pointing out history un deniable fact
Hitler removed the rights to German citizens ,fact and we saw where the extreme led to and that was the death camps
Our constitution has protections that no government can remove, unless the people of Ireland vote to remove these right.
And I will be dammed I will vote to allow this shower in power to introduce abortion on demand.
ah well now.
as you said yourself your opinion is as relevant as my own, agreed!
in my opinion you are on patrol.
it would also be my opinion that what you wrote was obnoxious claptrap, again see your own declaration there.
have a good evening!
Hi Fiona, let’s take a mother of 3-4 children who gets into serious difficulties with her health on the 5th and potentially will not be able to look after herself, let alone her children. Are you saying that woman is devoid of humanity for requesting an abortion?
I say she is doing what most mother’s would do, cutting her losses and hopefully looking after what she already has. THAT is why women who are already mothers support Repeal.
SOQ, Fiona said some of the COMMENTS made by mothers were detached and devoid of humanity, not the MOTHERS. People just want to go in on anyone that has a different viewpoint though. Mob mentality at its finest.
Martco, you’re old enough to know better, shame on you.
?!
wha?
I’m not a mob Karina, just one poster and I asked a reasonable question. Perhaps you would like to answer it?
SOQ, Of course she is not devoid of humanity. That goes without saying.
You are part of the mob who accuses all who disagree a nasty evil lot who would have women die rather than terminate a foetus
You cannot even conduct a logical argument
We are talking about our constitution and I for one know if protection is removed for the unborn under our constitution for a free for all then what could be the law that we do not know yet could be far worse.
Suppose the referendum passes
We hear hospitals and doctors can opt out of providing a termination under law
Even our new hospital has a clause stating doctors can refuse,
So what then ?
Still women refused life saving terminations but the protection removed for all unborn
Then the state could put pressure on the most vulnerable to terminate possibly handicapped babies before they are born, simply because the state has to provide the services from cradle to grave for these human beings, and look at the reality of those dependent on the state the horror stories of children with disabilities waiting and waiting the lack of special needs the waiting lists for children needing spinal surgery mentally handicapped, the list goes on ,and on the flick of a pen it can all be solved by preventing the birth of these humans.
Look at the HSE and the smear test scandal and the way they drag out paying compensation till the victim is dead and buried
And to be honest this is how low I think of our government and how low they would stoop
This is the reality and you cannot argue this could not happen
So we vote and hope that this shower and future lots will do the right thing for our people
Frankly look at the bust and what these muppets allowed to happen to our country
Look at scandal after scandal
Like you answer my questions twisting them to mean the opposite of what they are
Even my point about love ,when I said about the abyss scenario
Love is knowing your partner would actually do that for you.
And that’s one thing you would never expect them to do.
But knowing that about what your partner would do for you.
Now that is neither miserable or selfish
I have that with my wife who I would die for, it is sacred
You know you of the mob are just like sheep ,you do not realise the implications
We do not need to remove the eight amendment
We can revise it and ensure those doctors in hospitals do what they are employed to do and not use arguments before saving lives because their ethos stands in the way of life saving treatment of their patients
There is no room for these doctors that refused to save savita’s life because of definition of what constitutes a dead foetus which was poisoning savita halipanan
In another hospital and under different doctors she would of been alive today
how about mothers who already have children who can’t afford another and know it would be unfair to the wellbeing child they already have to have another baby right at that time?! let me tell you from experience that there’s a lot of damn guilt involved and perfect knowledge of exactly what’s happening when a termination is sought. back in your cage, kitty.
I’m not David, no. I’m allowed an opinion, as are you.
Have any of you read ‘I was Ann Lovett’s boyfriend’ in today’s Irish Times? Why does he think he may have been the father of her child? The timing of her rape – and accounts from Granard at the time – suggest otherwise. Such a sad account of a pernicious time and place, with priests and police as usual covering themselves in glory.
Just finished it. Heart wrenching stuff. That poor child.
No idea on the fatherhood thing. Hard to judge when we’re hearing one side. Perhaps there was something in the letter?
Yes, maybe. Great pic of her. It feels as if she was giving Ireland, the sow that eats her farrow, the finger. What a loss.
Also worth a read, a Facebook post from his daughter describing the ripple effect.
https://m.facebook.com/stonetape1/posts/1847876071943519
And a comment from Granard saying that Ann called to the priest’s house just before going into labor and he closed the door in her face.
http://clericalwhispers.blogspot.ie/2009/02/vale-of-tears-veil-of-silence.html?m=1