74 thoughts on “On The Fence”

  1. Ina.

    The figures are in. The referendum will pass. This type of showboating does nothing.

    1. Sentient Won

      Counted the votes already have you?

      Meanwhile in Iowa:

      https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/05/608738116/iowa-bans-most-abortions-as-governor-signs-heartbeat-bill

      The so-called “heartbeat” legislation bans abortions once a fetal heartbeat has been detected, at about six weeks of pregnancy. Exceptions are made in cases of rape, incest or medical emergency. Rep. Sandy Salmon said, “A baby has become something we can throw away. This bill says it’s time to change the way we think about unborn life.”

        1. Baz

          Oooooo a Doctor?

          J.Mengele
          H.Shipman
          K.Gosnell
          M.Neary
          M.Shine

          Ask Alan Thawley what he thinks of R.Mahoney

          Dr.

    4. Lush

      I totally agree.
      You don’t have to be pro-abortion to be pro-choice.
      I think Judith is pulling a Sentient Won on us.

    5. Joe

      Yeah. Fair sentiment. Bizarre to claim white male privilage if a man dislikes the act of abortion but votes yes to allow personal choice in difficult circumstances.

  4. Gabby

    Voltaire never said what he’s supposed to have said, but he did believe in freedom of expression.

  5. Janet, I ate my Avatar

    don’t see this as on the fence
    See this as a good point
    it’s a private personal individual choice

  6. newsjustin

    I’ve decided to keep a slave and kill people who look at me funny.

    Don’t you dare judge me. It’s my personal choice.

    1. Brother Barnabas

      justin, will you be back to your old self once this is all over or is what’s happening an inexorable implosion of reason?

    1. Bob

      Good question but I’m not going to answer it directly because again myopic Broadsheet has assumed too much and failed to provide adequate context to a story. You know, the basics of journalism and editorial.

      The manager of the White Moose Cafe has a reputation for strong opinions and winding up other people on social media, his ban on vegans is one of several incidents
      http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-cafe-war-on-vegans-2411242-Oct2015/
      It usually results in an enormous amount of free publicity for his business.

      The poster is either a total moron to complain that a Yes voter isn’t hardcore enough of a yes voter, or doing it on purpose to help publicize the White Mouse Cafe.

      2. Lush

        You’re on the ball today Bob!
        But I see from your post further down, that you have researched Judith and maybe thought again?

        1. Bob

          My later post was merely trying to be polite. A quick google search isn’t exactly deep research either, it was enough to notice a pattern of broadsheet posts and letters to editor that seem to be from the same person over a period of years. (As with anything on the internet it could still be fake.)

          The kind of person that focuses on privilege usually has plenty of it. Maybe they are also working to alleviate poverty and argue for better jobs and better services that will raise everyone up but privilege only a small part of the problem and focusing on like in this case only serves to alienate potential allies.

  8. Pierce

    This is a decidedly pro-choice stance and isn’t sitting on the fence. I think it’s actually a fairly effective way to advocate a yes vote to undecided (particularly male) voters. i.e. your personal reservations don’t necessarily preclude you from voting to let other people do what they decide to do.

    1. Bob

      Privacy was a key part of the legal case Roe versus Wade in the United States that made many anti-abortion laws unconstitutional, so “none of my feckin business” (privacy) it is a strong argument.

    2. Rob_G

      I took the same meaning from this as you did, Pierce.

      From the tone of the accompanying message, I imagine that Judith is exactly the type of person that the White Moose guy is looking to wind-up with his ‘outrageous/contrarian’ schtick.

  9. Sentient Won

    “I never said I was in favour of destroying human lives but if you want to go ahead and destroy human lives I’m ok with that and because it’s none of my feckin’ business I will fight for your right to destroy human lives.”

    FIFY.

  11. Well

    The white moose annoy me a lot with their stunts. But this is good I think. It’s a genuine view of many voting yes.

    1. Tom

      Exactly. Lots of people might never chose an abortion for themselves but they want others to have that choice. Stupid pointless sneering from broadsheet.

      1. mildred st. meadowlark

        I don’t think its broadsheet themselves though?

        Its Judith, whoever she is. Broadsheet are just the online equivalent of your poo-stirring auntie Sheila.

        1. Bob

          A google search suggests Judith Goldberg is a Dublin 4 type who has submitted stories to Broadsheet several times and likes to write letters to the Irish Times on regular basis.

          Also Judith is the kind of person who throws the word “privilege” around so make of that what you will.

          Judith is entitled to her opinion but couldn’t be more clearly wrong.

          1. Lush

            Writing letters to the Irish Times and sending posts to Broadsheet?
            Can we call that an oxymoron or am I getting ahead of myself?

  12. gorugeen

    Broadsheet simply provide the platform. The opinion is that of the writer alone. In this case it’s erroneous.

  13. Sentient Won

    Another censored comment, Broadsheet?

    Are you so scared of your own agenda that you must deny anybody who disagrees with you?

    1. Bob

      It’s very disappointing that broadsheet doesn’t even indicate that a comment has been blocked and quietly drops comments without so much as an empty post with [Comment removed] label.

      Ideally they would remove a comment and clearly indicate that it was removed for a specific reason, reasons clearly listed as site policy somewhere. The reasoning for deleting comments is anything but clear and consistent.

      Quietly deleting posts without saying anything is not a good way to make it clear to people that the discussion needs to be kept within certain boundaries, or what those boundaries might be.

      1. Brother Barnabas

        to be fair to BS, they’re pretty clear about the guidelines and pretty consistent in applying them

        what I’ve learned is don’t use rude words, don’t be impolite and don’t make too many direct references to your penis

        1. Bob

          Didn’t expect to find it on this page but they broadly outline their policies
          https://www.broadsheet.ie/contact/

          Nonetheless deleting posts without leaving a placeholder or comment saying why a comment was deleted or rejected is less than ideal.

          I’d especially appreciate if posts that are removed based on legal advice are instead heavily redacted and clearly marked as such. Those comments from the Northern Irish juror a while back were quite interesting, and the comment thread didn’t make sense anymore after they were deleted.

          Heavy redaction and restatement of policies would be preferable to quiet deletion.

          4. Brother Barnabas

            would probably be better but it would also be fairly labour intensive, i’d guess

            we don’t pay for BS, there are no ads…

      1. Lilly

        I don’t know what kind of snazzy phone you have, but mine doesn’t do links. It was one of her previous posts here on Broadsheet concerning an article by Kathy Sheridan on homelessness. Shouldn’t be difficult to find.

  15. Dinny Do Well?

    When is he publishing the CCTV footage of Una Mullally of the Irish Times attempting to ‘put off’ customers from eating there?

    https://twitter.com/UnaMullally/status/979357829449637888

    “This dude is so pathetic. By the way, I happened to be nearby so knocked into your cafe to tell your customers you are making jokes about a rape case online and they should know that before frequenting there. You’re welcome! “

  16. Not On Your Nelly

    I wouldn’t want an abortion. But I don’t have a womb. I think I’m against abortion as a birth control measure. But I’m not against women having the choice.

    I’m voting yes.

  17. Daisy Chainsaw

    Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Doesn’t mean The Mooseknuckle isn’t a giant clockwomble.

    1. ReproBertie (SCU)

      If I was to hazard a guess I’d say North Circular Rd, Arran Quay, Dublin 7.

    1. Bob

      Broadsheet is fond of a pun, so yes.

      But the comment from Judith about the WhiteMouse being on the male privilege fence is silly.

  20. Steph Pinker

    I like to watch documentaries, movies etc… on YT, and I’ve noticed over the past two weeks that ads for ‘Protect the 8th’ keep appearing, probably due to my .ie address; it seems to me that there’s a lot of money being invested in this campaign through various sources, and mediums.

    1. Steph Pinker

      Edit: by using the term ‘mediums’, I don’t mean psychics, large people, or small people for that matter…

      1. ReproBertie (SCU)

        I really hope they’re paying psychics to help with this campaign.

        1. Steph Pinker

          Do you mean paying psychics, or paying psychics? There is a difference…

  21. Bob

    I’d have used the word media but I think people know what you mean.

    There’s a whole lot of online advertising, it’s everywhere, including on the silly puzzle games I play on my phone.
    It reminds you how the internet is far from anonymous and how heavily we are tracked online and that all these sites know we are in Ireland and a lot more than that too.

    Also I’d like to apologise for repeatedly writing White Mouse instead of White Mouse, it isn’t intentional.

    1. Steph Pinker

      Hi Bob, I was playing with words when I wrote ‘mediums’ – I don’t get out very often; bearing that in mind, I like the way you want to apologise ‘for repeatedly writing White Mouse instead of White Mouse, it isn’t intentional.’ Very clever! Heh.

  22. petey

    likewise, your choice to own a gun and kill someone with it is “none of my business.”

    1. Bob

      This.

      Repeal the speed limit! People are going to England breaking the speed limit all the time anyway!!!

      There are many reasonable arguments for yes, but that is one of the sillier ones if you think it through.

      I appreciate when people make better thought out principled arguments, but politicians don’t want to have principles they might actually need to stick to later. For example, if a politician says they are pro-life then why are they so reluctant to support anti-drink driving legislation that will save lives? If a politician is pro choice why are they so slow to legalize medicinal cannabis oil? Why can’t we all agree on the need for better childcare and family support?

      1. Basil Brush

        I believe it is a womans choice if she wants to abort her child. She will have to live with that decision for the rest of her life. Women are choosing to do exactly this overseas…or here at home with illegal pills that might kill them…let us support women with whatever choice they make. It may be our daughters someday. lets hope they never have to make a ‘choice’.

    2. painkiller

      Post of the thread goes to you, sir.

      I love the use of the diversity/progress flag. It used to mean something, used to give me a warm feeling to see it in pubs and cafe’s until it was appropriated and weaponised…and I say that with nothing but respect for the previous custodians.

  23. Ron

    I’m pro choice and voting YES…. meanwhile did you know that male gulf pipefishes – one of the only species whose males can become pregnant – can selectively abort embryos from less attractive females!

      1. Ron

        This was my favourite bit…..

        ‘the females court and compete for males. The pair then do a dance, which includes “twitching at each other and spiralling together, like a double helix”, says lead author Kimberly Paczolt from Texas A&M University in College Station. As they spiral around each other, the female transfers the eggs into two rows along its mate’s body. The male then fertilizes the eggs, and the brood pouch — which consists of two flaps — glues itself together in the middle. Weeks later, the seam breaks apart, tiny versions of the adults swim out, and the males are free to be impregnated again in as little as an hour.’

    2. Termagant

      Are you saying we should abort ugly babies?

      I’m not saying I disagree, let’s just explore that a little

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