58 thoughts on “Can We Pontifex It?

    1. Cian

      Top sign says it’s OPW – so the State.

      We all are.

      Saying that, in the 2016 census 78.3 per cent of the population said they were Roman Catholic. So its fair enough for the State to pay towards the visit of the RC head honcho.

      1. Frilly Keane

        So by that metric Cian

        100% of Cork People are Cork Supporters
        So should Cork Local Authorities pay for our away games?

        1. Cian

          No – not the away games. But I’d suggest that home games cost them – e.g. are there more council workers cleaning the streets before/after a match? Do the LA provide a greater service (in any other area) on match days.
          Similarly there would be extra Gardaí on duty on a match day – both at the stadium – but also helping people get to/from the stadium.

      2. Scundered

        Cian, that’s just a statement of the religion they were born into, I doubt if many of those who identify as any particular religion are actually religious.

    1. newsjustin

      I don’t think it is a formal “State Visit”. He is coming on a pastoral visit to the WMOF. So similar to Prince Charles’ visit a few months ago.

      1. BS

        But as the head of state of the Vatican he’s being afforded head of state security etc. When in reality he’s just the CEO of an organisation. Imagine all this being paid for if the zuck came over to give a speech to his employees

        1. newsjustin

          He’s a head of state. But this is not a “State Visit”. Countries do, of course, ensure the security of visitors.

        2. Brother Barnabas

          or just a fundraising junket – the irish state covering the cost, the church stuffing its pockets

          1. Brother Barnabas

            let’s wait and see, Justin

            granted, it’s a long while since I’ve been in a church but I do remember baskets being passed around every 30 seconds. has that changed? will there be any requests for donations at this event ?

          2. newsjustin

            No. The events at Phoenix Park, Knock are free. If you want to go to the WMOF conference bit you pay.

            Of course collection baskets are passed around in churches. People pay to fund their parishes…or not. How else do you think an organisation should fund itself except through donations from users?

            Fact is you don’t know anything about it, but wanted to say that the church was stuffing its pockets, because it felt good.

          3. Brother Barnabas

            what does a priest charge for a baptism, wedding etc? I know it’s an undeclared cash payment, but still…

            please don’t let’s pretend the catholic church isn’t all about cash

          4. newsjustin

            Charging money for the sacraments is not allowed, as you probably know. There is a duty on all faithful Catholics to support their priests.

            I’m just glad we moved off the topic of the church “stuffing its pockets” at the WMOF so quickly. Clearly you had no evidence whatsoever to back that claim up.

          5. Cian

            @newsjustin “Charging money for the sacraments is not allowed, as you probably know. There is a duty on all faithful Catholics to support their priests. ”

            Indeed.
            However, charging a couple for the use of the church, for the flowers, for the alter boys, for their wedding is totally different.

            And it was the Government-enacted 2009 Charities Act that stopped the RC Church selling mass cards.

          6. ReproButina

            Altar boys. I don’t think the church sanctifies gender realignment. Nor, to my knowledge, do they charge for altar boys. There’s an understanding that the best man will slip them an envelope as I remember it. I don’t know that the church runs any florists so I’m not sure how they can charge for flowers.

          7. Brother Barnabas

            @newsjustin

            “Charging money for the sacraments is not allowed, as you probably know”

            no, i didn’t know that. it’s so prevalent and understood that i assumed it was sanctioned practice. anyone who’s ever got married in a church or had a child baptised (not that i have, obviously) will tell you that the priest is quick to put his hand out and tell you the suggested amount,

            “I’m just glad we moved off the topic of the church “stuffing its pockets” at the WMOF so quickly. Clearly you had no evidence whatsoever to back that claim up.”

            no, we didn’t move off it. what i said was “let’s wait and see, Justin”. and i’ll bet anything there’ll be a small army of eejits stationed at every entry point to the park on august 25, shaking a plastic bucket.

          8. Cian

            You can even get a “Papal Blessing” which is a piece of paper with your name on it, that was ‘blessed’ by the pope – as in, the paper was blessed along with 1000s of other papers (and possibly 1000s of people too).

            What a money-making swizz!!

            Best thing is you can get all sacraments (even wedding anniversaries) papally blessed – not just weddings!

            http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/institutions_connected/elem_apost/documents/rc_elemosineria_doc_20130218_benedizioni_en.html

          9. newsjustin

            @Brother

            “..anyone who’s ever got married in a church or had a child baptised (not that i have, obviously) will tell you that the priest is quick to put his hand out and tell you the suggested amount,”

            I’ve done both and been involved in weddings and baptisms and never seen a priest do what you claim. People make a donation to support a priest who’s source of income, to fund his existence in his ministry, is such donations.

          10. Daisy Chainsaw

            Brother B, there have been special collection boxes in my parents’ church since last year for the WMOF. PR Pope and his hangers on won’t be staying in an Air BnB in Ashtown, Five Star accomodation doesn’t come cheap, ching ching.!

          11. newsjustin

            @Cian

            “However, charging a couple for the use of the church, for the flowers, for the alter boys, for their wedding is totally different.”

            What repro said. Churches are not florists. You’ll find that there is, in fact, no charge for the use of the church of it is your own parish church and, crucially, you are a regular mass-attending member of the parish.

            “And it was the Government-enacted 2009 Charities Act that stopped the RC Church selling mass cards.”

            Cian, you have your wires totally crossed there. You are wrong. Churches can and do sell “Mass cards” they are simply cards recording that you have made a donation to support a priest or community of priests who will pray, in particular, for your chosen intention.
            I believe the 2009 legislation was enacted to try to prevent fraudsters from selling “mass cards” where no mass was ever said for the intention.

          12. Cian

            @newsjustin 2:09 “Charging money for the sacraments is not allowed, as you probably know.”

            @newsjustin 2:41 “Churches can and do sell “Mass cards” they are simply cards recording that you have made a donation to support a priest or community of priests who will pray, in particular, for your chosen intention.”

            What? Explain to me again how charging money for the sacraments is not allowed.

          13. newsjustin

            @Daisy

            More ill-informed, willfully ignorant nonsense:

            “PR Pope and his hangers on won’t be staying in an Air BnB in Ashtown, Five Star accomodation doesn’t come cheap, ching ching.!”

            The Pope, as usual for papal visits through the years, will sleep in church property – usually the Apostolic Nunciature.

          14. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

            Yup. I think that was the only section of the Charities Act that was enacted at the beginning.

          15. newsjustin

            “What? Explain to me again how charging money for the sacraments is not allowed.”

            Like I said Cian, charging money for the sacraments is not allowed. However faithful Catholics do have an obligation to support their priests by means of DONATIONS. You will be very, very hard pushed to find any priest who will decline anyone any sacrament (eucharist, marriage, confession, last rites, confirmation..) because they can’t or won’t pay. And if you ever do, report him to his bishop immeadiately and pray for him, because he’s gravely wrong.

          16. Brother Barnabas

            “Oh no, we don’t charge for this, but you do have an obligation to donate”

  1. andy

    If the taxpayer is paying for this job we need to know who sanctioned mis use of public money
    Time questions were answered and the project shelved
    And all work so far returned to its pre construction state
    Also was planning applied for?
    If not then its an illegal construction project

      1. andy

        These are valid questions
        Planning is needed for all construction
        Love your quip about pontiff-ication

      1. pedeyw

        The Phoenix park is the responsibility of the OPW, I’m not sure if that changes planning applications at all.

  2. Zaccone

    Are there projections on what the total cost to the state for this will be? Looks expensive.

    Is the Catholic church paying anything towards it?

  3. Ollie Cromwell

    What’s needed is someone to shake a statue or at least sling a bit of fake blood around the eyes – sod it,even a bit of aul’ olive oil will do.
    Make sure it’s in a fairly inaccessible place that needs paid transport to get there – Skellig Michael would be a good choice.
    Line up some cheap nick-nacks.Empty bottles of Ballygown that a hermit once drank with his boiled seagull guano spring to mind.
    Then charge all the thousands of eejits who normally turn up to these events in Ireland to gawp at the sun and voilá you earned a few bob to pay for the papal visit.
    Simples.

  4. Liam Deliverance

    Who is the Contractor?

    No logos or company names on hi-vis vests, signage or company vehicles (except that security booth in Image 3)

    How much is the contract worth, what does it pay for, does it offer value for money or is it more akin to dropping it in the sea?

    1. Daisy Chainsaw

      I see an Actavo logo in the third pic. {Redacted] O’Bribe looks like he stands to make a few quid… as usual.

        1. newsjustin

          OPW? Opus Dei Public Works probably. I think I see an albino monk in the second picture.

          1. Cian

            hypothetically speaking, what would the ramifications be if the pope were assassinated in Ireland? Would the Swiss Guard declare war on us?

            *I’m possibly mixing up novels here

          2. andy

            CIAN
            With the animosity towards him
            You could be right
            But the Swiss guard would be spotted before they even left Italy and not get far
            I doubt their pantaloons would blend in as camoflage

    2. andy

      Overheard a guy in the supermarket saying this was costing €64.5 .
      And €8 of it can’t be accounted for.
      He was sure there was something missing

      1. ReproButina

        Sounds like a fella in the know. He didn’t happen to mention anything about Shergar did he?

  5. Joe Small

    I’m sure Queen Elizabeth’s visit cost a lot too. Can you focus our criticisms of the RC Church on more worthwhile issues like their lack of engagement with victims of abuse? Everything else seems a bit petty in comparison.

  6. small ads

    Kiddie fiddlers’ convention. I’m not for the Pope visiting, and I’m not for British royalty visiting either.

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