89 thoughts on “De Bank Holiday Monday Papers

  1. Clampers Outside

    That photo on the front of the Telegraph of three Spitfires is just beautiful :0)

        1. Tighe’s Cylon

          It is! Amazing machine. Like getting into a comfortable suit I’ve heard it described as…

          1. George

            A nostalgic fantasy of the kind that has fuelled Brexit. They are unfortunate killing machines.

          2. Tighe’s Cylon

            Yes there are. Unfortunately necessary given the options available at the time. However I can still admire the machine from a design perspective. And don’t forget the fighter was derived from the exemplar racing machine of the era.

          3. dav

            A grand father of a friend of mine spoke about flying in one during the war, he was describing hitting the throttle in one as “squeezing the tit” with a mischievous twinkle in his eye. I think it was to do with getting away if the german got behind you. I wish I spoke to him again but I think he passed a few years after.

          4. Clampers Outside!

            My Dad got to see one when he was a kid in Donegal. It flew over from somewhere in Derry, the pilot doing “loops and spins” my Dad said… “showing off” even.
            The best bit though… he had to land in a field and Dad got to see the plane up close !
            Such a cool childhood memory to have, I think :)

          5. Spaghetti Hoop

            Top class engineering.
            On the D-Day / WW2 theme, if you wanna know your Neptune from your Mincemeat – one of my recreational pursuits over the weekend was this clever little site on WW2 codenames: https://codenames.info/

    1. eoin

      + 1 (not sure what story you’re referring to, but that’s an all-weather comment)

    1. millie st murderlark

      No different than admiring a vintage Aston Martin surely, if it’s a piece of engineering worth admiring.

      What matters if it’s British? That doesn’t make it a lesser piece though it may just illustrate your own narrow world view…

      1. Mé Féin

        They may have been well engineered but the British history of WWII, where they simultaneously had the largest empire on earth and were the small plucky guys standing alone with only bit parts from the Americans and Soviets (forget where I got that line), needs a good rebuttal.
        And I don’t think all that WWII porn is helping them think clearly about Brexit.

    2. Mickey Twopints

      Irish men flew them in WW2.
      The Irish Air Corps operated them for many years post WW2.

      Probably the most aesthetically beautiful killing machine that mankind has ever developed.

    1. eoin

      Yep, shills really coming out of the woodwork for this one even though no-one has addressed the fundamental flaw in the e-voting system, that the results can be easily manipulated. At least with several tonnes of physical paper in Ireland South, 220 counters, a big hall with all the party activists milling around and everyone watching everyone else, you minimise the risk of corruption.

      Also, Ireland South is a bit of circus. If they could perform one count between Sunday – Thursday, five days, why does a recount take 28 days.

      1. paddy apathy

        Most of the 220 counters are returning to their day jobs. There will only be a small crew doing the recount.

        1. GiggidyGoo

          Plenty of capable people without jobs available to do the counts. University students for example. Or people that have lost their jobs. But no – employed people get the gig, and teachers on their (paid) summer holidays get the gig. Despicable greed

          1. eoin

            It’s fairly outrageous that the possibility of a re-count isn’t built into the requirement for counters, it’s hardly a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence now is it?

      2. SOQ

        I wonder what other countries use e-Voting and how they address such issues?

        It’s like Ireland is the first country in the world to attempt to use electronic voting the way in which this topic is being discussed. A cynic would say it is a media build up to another large tender of course. Find best practice elsewhere and replicate ffs- talk about reinventing the wheel.

        1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

          Stick with paper. Anything else will have the Russians/Chinese/Americans deciding who wins.

          1. SOQ

            Millions of Euros / Dollars fly around the world every second and yet, a system to securely collect and count a couple of million votes every four years is not possible.

            Have you ever even contemplated the scheduling complexity of the software systems in the aviation industry where many lives are at stake?

          2. f_lawless

            what about the notion of “rigged market capitalism”? Cartels of insiders rigging the system to their advantage – eg the 2012 Libor scandal where bankers at various major financial institutions were caught fixing interest rates – no doubt just the tip of the iceberg

      3. GiggidyGoo

        The foundations are being laid to start the discussion – apart from Flanagan saying it may be revisited, Pope Phelan says it shouldn’t. Two different press releases from FG. https://www.thejournal.ie/e-voting-history-4663002-Jun2019/ is different from the indo one above.

        But just the be clear (as a FGer might say), software is written by humans so that a particular result can be achieved from a computer. Apply that to electronic voting. Add an ‘Official Secrets’ condition to anyone who gets to utilize the software to produce results, and Bob’s Your TD.

    2. Vanessa the Holy Face of Frilly Keane

      Lads I remember this voting machine lark getting a good ol’ airing back in the ch.com days
      (And we had threads going into the thousands of replies so this could well have been one’ah them )

      Anyway the general outcome was that Ireland would never do away with the Tallyman and open table top ballot

      On this occasion it has delayed South voters getting the outcome of their election to select MEPs to represent them

      However unless a block or three of 10,000 uncounted or mis-allocated votes are found down there in Nemo
      The only likely movements will be a few hundred here and there

      I don’t know if anyone remembers this, but back in the 80s the National Geographic did a documentary about the Irish Tally and the accuracy and competency of the process (some classic footage too btw.). They spoke very highly of how we count our votes.

      I will always stand up for the process of the Tally and the Open Manual Count
      Ok after we collate the sheets now we do use tech
      But nothing really more fancy than data entry and excel

      I find myself insulted when I hear bull sh about false bottomed boxes, unmarked white vans removing boxes, Pencils instead of ink, spoilt and uncertain votes being tampered with. And I’m well aware that feeds a particular and popular constituency around here.
      However conspiracies don’t get emptied out onto tables for all to see. (Btw to put an end to another conspiracy, candidates and their reps and permitted members of the public are perfectly entitled to supervise the boxes in transit, be there when they are sealed and when they’re opened and same for the postal votes. They just cannot be left on their own with them)

      Despite what you might be force fed here is nothing more transparent or demonstrative of the people who vote than the Count of an Irish Election

      Machines should never be introduced to what is an extraordinary tradition that we should all be proud of and stand up for

      Something else
      So what if it takes 28 days Eoin
      The voters in South deserve to have their votes counted with absolute certainty
      It’s open to the public
      So g’wan down there yourself and see what they’re upta

      Tell ya what
      I’ll even go with ya

      1. Mickey Twopints

        + 4,761,865

        To add to that excellent summary, I would ask a question.

        If the Sock Collector and his fellow cabinet chums of the Irish Tory party decided to run with electronic voting systems, would O’Broadband make enough out of it to be worth his trouble?

        1. Vanessa the Holy Face of Frilly Keane

          Ah shur’ we all thought of O’Broadband with these latest Blueshurt eVoting releases
          But I
          And I’m prepared to put my signiture to this, which is something I take very seriously

          They’re just bumfluff
          To flick our attention away from other Government activity Or inactivity
          And general Fine Gael internal trauma

          Eg Minister for Justice Flanagan has far more serious matters to be speaking to the Irish people about than eVoting
          Which doesn’t even come into his remit anyway
          (Eoghan Murphy’s btw)

          IMO
          Top Tier Fine Gael are working us lads. First with handing Maria Bailey to the Indo now eVoting.

          Dunno whether it’s about the ‘Affordable Mortgage Scheme’ falling asunder
          Or Housing (which I believe is far more drastic than they’re telling us)
          Or the NCH
          Or Rural Broadband
          Or Cervical Check
          Or just Simon giving Leo the scutters
          Or all ov’em

          Believe me lads. We are being played

          Oh. And incidentally. It’s not just FG at it.
          I am now convinced various underground groups and head-the-balls, from both sides,
          Who were well organised and committed during the Repeal Campaign didn’t just disband. They are all still active
          Here and out there
          Torturing us with thinly threaded conspiracies, destabilising opinions, furthering far right hate or helping themselves to claim ignorance of it
          Or simply pretending to be other people to create distrust or disguise their own shady behaviour
          I used ta think I was imagining stuff
          I half believed it when I was told It’s only in your head
          It’s pretty clear now over the last week
          That these covert corrupters haven’t gone away

          1. eoin

            + The awarding of a gas/oil exploration licence to a Chinese oil company
            + the decision not to ban smoky coal because of threat from the industry
            + + +

            Mind you, where are the politicians and the opposition especially?

  2. SOQ

    The Star sez we should put sun-cream on our cats.

    Apart from the fact that sun-cream for humans has ever been tested on cats and possibility could kill them and, that they already have a block called fur, I for one have no intention of spending the rest of my day in an A&E getting stitched up after attempting to apply.

      1. GiggidyGoo

        I don’t think Bruton would to that. The animal IQ may be higher than the average politicians’

  3. dav

    By the way anyone see that the USA will make EMAIL addresses and social media ID’s a Mandatory question on ANY Visa Application?
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48486672
    “Nearly all applicants for US visas will have to submit their social media details under newly adopted rules.

    The State Department regulations say people will have to submit social media names and five years’ worth of email addresses and phone numbers.

    When proposed last year, authorities estimated the proposal would affect 14.7 million people annually.

    Certain diplomatic and official visa applicants will be exempt from the stringent new measures.

    However, people travelling to the US to work or to study will have to hand over their information. “

    1. eoin

      Good morning sir/madam, can you please come with me, about those comments you posted on Broadsheet….

    2. SOQ

      That’s sinister- it infers that the American authorities can access your emails. And what if you don’t actually use social media?

      1. Cian

        They can.

        Most emails are sent unencrypted and can be viewed by all servers along the way.

        The US gov built the core (US) nodes so see everything.

        That should really only apply to anything routed via USA. Or the UK. They spy on everything too… and share with their US buddies

  4. Slightly Bemused

    Is it just me or is the positioning of the picture of the return of the Liverpool team amid a haze of smoke just above a headline on air pollution a little amusing ?

  5. eoin

    1,500 EXTRA gardai deployed to protect Trump all working 12-hour shifts?

    And Ireland’s Juarez might get 24 Templemore graduates to deal with a drug war?

  6. eoin

    1,500 EXTRA gardai deployed to protect Trump all working 12-hour shifts?

    And Ireland’s Juarez might get 24 Templemore graduates to deal with a drug war?

  7. eoin

    “Patrick Kenny, manager of ambient air quality at the EPA, blamed the rise on more cars on the roads, weather conditions and pollution being blown into Ireland’s airspace…There were a record 2.68 million vehicles on Irish roads last year, while passenger numbers at Ireland’s airports rose by more than 6 per cent to a record 36.5 million last year…Richard Bruton, the environment minister, was scheduled to introduce a national ban [for smoky coal] in September but plans have been delayed by legal threats from the coal industry. ”

    reports the Times Ireland about air pollution, incidents where the concentration of fine particulates in the air, exceeds safety guidelines. Great reporting from Shauna Bowers.Around 1,500 deaths a year in Ireland are directly related to air pollution, That compares to around 150 deaths on the road and 300 suicides.

  8. Catherine costelloe

    89 year old Colin Thackerey , wins Britain Got Talent. Another trip down memory lane for them. Good on you Colin–the old folks in nursing homes here will be singing along with you & your nostalgic tunes.

  9. eoin

    Compo Bailey continues to distract us from the sleaze and shadiness in government buildings. The Dean Hotel is now providing its files to the senior barrister who the FG party has engaged to review the matter.

    ““We are co-operating with an official government review and we believe that this is the correct way for us to provide any further information,” said a spokeswoman for .. the Dean [hotel] The CCTV footage was a reason why the company contested the action and denied liability in Ms Bailey’s case.”

    Apparently the CCTV footage is as hilarious as you might imagine, and tends to undermine Compo’s version and particularly the need for plasters for bleeding cuts [having retired from the scene of the incident on the night to the ladies, Maria then decided to go to the hotel reception for plasters].

    Of course, contrary to what the Dean Hotel says, this isn’t “an official government review”, just a backstreet probe by the FG party which can’t hide the fact Leo didn’t get clarity from Maria during that private conversation last week.

    1. Bonkers

      oh lovely, giving the CCTV to FG now increases the chance of a leak onto the internet.

      anyone know who is paying for this review, surely not the exchequer?

      1. Vanessa the Holy Face of Frilly Keane

        Fine Gael’s general accounts
        This is an internal party review

        Which automatically leads to the question as to why Leo and other Government/ Dáil members are having meetings during working hours, in their place of work, on Fine Gael Housekeeping matters that should be conducted in their own time and on their own premises.

        1. Cian

          What exactly are their ‘working hours’? Specifically?

          And why not conduct them in work? Like it or not the political parties and their internal review are part of the political system. As much as the ballot boxes you mentioned above.

          1. Vanessa the Holy Face of Frilly Keane

            Shur’ I dunno what hours they keep
            All I know is that an’ting to do with Maria Bailey’s membership of Fine Gael is a party matter and as such, all activities, should be conducted on FG premises and on FG time and on FG money.
            And not at Taxpayers expense.

            Regarding her membership of the current Dáil, well that’s a matter for the Clerk of the House, Sean Comhairle etc
            For now

            Oh
            And I also know when our Government Ministers let on photo ops are work

            But naturally Cian
            I’ll bow to your expertise on these matters

          2. Cian

            I’ll take that as you don’t know what their hours are.

            I’ll tell you. They don’t have hours. Once you vote them in they can’t be fired. They have no contract. They have no ‘hours’. They have no roles and responsibilities. There is no “work time” vs “party time” vs “home time”?

          3. Cian

            @Vanessa, stay on topic.
            Can you explain the difference between a (FG) TD’s “work hours” and “their own time” please?

          4. Vanessa the Holy Face of Frilly Keane

            Ohh look at you
            Bossy Boots

            Ok, lemme see

            Work Hours : Acting on behalf of Constituents + if applicable, Ministerial Function { all on Taxpayers Payroll}

            Their own time : Political Party functions aka Fundraisers, Party obligations – Cumann/ Branch liason, Monthly Trustee meetings, Party Strategies, Party Committees (Policy, IT, Membership, Audit, Finance, Ógra, Fundraising etc) Party Policy activities. Canvassing to get re-elected. Personal Grooming, Socialising (outside standard work networking / PR carry-on. Parent Teacher meetings, holiers, Golf, the weekly shop, household jobs and chores, school run, kids dental appointments – you know the ush for the rest of us like.

            Shur’ haven’t they great holidays – and 3 day weeks, paid help around the office and in their Constituency. So I don’t see why I’m or any other Tax Payer and Voter, isn’t entitled to expect they keep Party Membership Obligations out of their place of work.
            Let them give up their evenings/ weekends like I do for the CUs and other groups

          5. Cian

            Thanks for answering.

            To summarise:
            – A TD/Minister has some defined hours of work e.g. Dáil/committees. Although there is no legal requirement on them to attend.
            – Outside of this when they are “acting on behalf of Constituents”/”Ministerial Function” – they are on work hours.
            – Everything else they do is
            their own time.

            By this definition, if the FG members want to have a chat about Maria Bailey, or about the party, or about the weather then, by your definition, they are doing it in their own time.

            My original point is we don’t pay politicians by the hour, or by output. They aren’t “on the clock”. They are given a fixed salary which they are entitled to collect up until they either resign, or the next election. They don’t have “working hours”.

            Look at Brian Crowley ex-MEP – he didn’t vote once in the last 5 year (albeit due to ill health).

          6. Vanessa the Holy Face of Frilly Keane

            Ah would ya give over Cian

            Twerk all ya like

            Internal Fine Gael Party Business should not be conducted on or at Taxpayers expense

            They have plenty opportunity and facilities as it is to observe and consolidate Fine Gael Interests’
            The parliamentary Party Meeting room for example
            Plus their headage payments and leadership allowances n’ what have yas

          7. Cian

            “Internal Fine Gael Party Business should not be conducted on or at Taxpayers expense”

            Agreed. But your point is moot. If these meetings happened or did not; or if they happened in Leinster house or not; or when they happened didn’t cost the taxpayers a cent!

          8. Vanessa the Holy Face of Frilly Keane

            Did you ever think of just going on the Lang
            FFS

            You’re like that Scooter lad in the Muppets

            So here’s what I’m going ta’ put on the record now

            Any activity to do with this FG Swingers review that get conducted on OPW property
            I will make a formal complaint to the Clerk of the Dáil about misuse of Dáil Facilities by Members
            And if you and the lads there in Leinster Road don’t think I can’t make a misuse claim to match Snoddy’s Ink Cartridges
            And prove Fraudulent misuse

            Well

            feck I’m all hot and randy now

          9. Cian

            Knock yourself out Vanessa.

            I’d love ta see ya try t’make a c’mplaint loike dat!

        1. Cian

          If we’d elected G’OD we would now have no corruption. It’s our own fault.

          Where’s my tinfoil hat?

          1. Cian

            I tell you what.

            You start talking like an (articulate) adult and I’ll act like one.

  10. bisted

    …think they said…’there’s no place like Egish’…but it’s nice to see you Shayna…in daylight…

  11. shayna

    ‘Eglish’ – West Tyrone/East Tyrone- big difference – Tyrone is a big county. Lough Neagh is a big thing in Tyrone- I’m from the lower Lough Neagh – East Tyrone – it’s called Clonoe. Michelle O’Neill, the SF Deputy leader is from Clonoe. I don’t think this show will do Tyrone types any favours.

  12. shayna

    I watched 10 mins – switched off. I spoke to my aunt who lives in West Tyrone – she did the same. A terrible show.

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