I wasn’t about to say, “I told you so”. No deal – Hard Border.
dav
not much of a revelation there
some old quare
Or another way of looking at it shayna is- No Deal- No GFA.
Shredding an international treaty is not a great look when you are trying to negotiate new trade deals.
Listrade
“Or another way of looking at it shayna is- No Deal- No GFA”
How does no deal break the GFA?
Charles Richard
It imposes a border, breaking the agreement.
Listrade
Only a Customs Border, The Common Travel Area between UK and Ireland is independent to the EU and will remain. There will be no passport checks, there will be free movement, the CTA also allows for people who have qualified for work and travel visas in either jurisdiction to freely move. None of that would change with a Hard Brexit.
A customs border means lorries will be queuing up. But there’s nothing in the GFA about a queue of lorries.
ReproBertie
The CTA is a nod and a wink policy. It’s not official and it can continue to exist due to shared EU membership. If the UK leave the EU without a deal there will have to be some sort of checks on the CTA. The Brits had checks despite the CTA for years through their Prevention of Terrorism Act.
Batty Brennan
They still do, in fact. The CTA arrangements seem to be regarded as mere helpful suggestions by many frontline staff in the UK Border Force.
Listrade
@Repro:
1. the terrorism issue was different to what we will have with Brexit. Also CTA applies to Isle of Man and Channel Islands, so it can’t just be withdrawn without even greater issues for UK.
2. Both UK and Ireland have stated it will remain. It is separate to the backstop. It isn’t just an aim, it is a specific policy and commitment that both Governments have stated.
3. EU is more concerned about an economic border than people border. They want trade to be free and easy between member states and expensive and difficult with non-EU. It’s concern for the border is purely economic. Movement of people is up to member states.
There are issues with the GFA, well only one to be fair, I’m just tired of the RTE line of barbed wire and sniper towers on the border when that is not going to happen.
some old quare
@ Listrade
There is no distinction made between different types of border infrastructure – it is a Boolean value.
Any semblance of infrastructure along the border- including customs will result in civil disobedience- at which point Britain will reinstate its military under the guise of security.
Back to square one then.
Besides, is not so much what the GFA legally is as what it was perceived to be which was important during the peace process- and still is.
ReproBertie
The UK and EU have also both said they don’t want a border but if the UK choose to leave without a deal a border is what we’ll be getting. There’s no two ways around that. Freedom of movement is one of the four pillars of the EU but the UK will no longer be part of the EU so there’ll have to be checks. If the CTA covers Irish and British citizens how can they prevent French, American or South African tourists using it without checks?
It’ll be grand though. Britain will not leave without a deal and that deal will include the backstop so there’ll be no border and no checks.
Listrade
@Repro.
What the perception of the GFA is and what it actually is on paper may be different, but it isn’t helped by the suggestion (and even in the media) that it is at risk. It isn’t. And it’s unhelpful to keep they line going that we will be heading back to the 70s and 80s immediately.
To me the issue of the CTA is actually one for the EU. UK/Ireland is totally unique and it requires a unique solution. UK and Ireland have committed to CTA, really it is for the EU to confirm it would accept the CTA in the event of a hard brexit. Again, there are things not being reported that show the UK (outside of Boris Bleating) has offered branches to soften a hard brexit. Like accepting EU passports for free movement and EU Travel Visas within UK in event of Hard Brexit. EU has said it will only accept UK equivalents if UK agrees to regulatory alignment (or the 2 year backstop).
It’s a simple enough deal and you can make it a pseudo-regulatory alignment by stating that as long as the UK maintains an equivalent standard of security and checks, then the Passports and Visas will be honoured. It can agree to honour the CTA. In fact, it can do that for practically everything. But it isn’t.
This is why you start getting suspicious that the EU may not be totally acting in Ireland’s best interests.
Even in a hard brexit we could easily have CTA and GFA in existence. We then have diversionary routes for heavy goods where they go through a customs border and the roads are open for people. I don’t see how that would cause unrest. Even the Norway/Sweden Border still has some checks on passports, but they’re random and limited.
Cian
The CTA isn’t worth the paper it’s written on when it applies to border controls. Why? Because it only applies to citizens of Ireland and the UK. So you need to prove that you are an Irish/UK citizen to be able to travel freely. How do you prove you are an Irish/UK citizen? Show a passport.
Free movement – can mean no visa; not no passport/boarder control.
A perfect Catch-22!
Listrade
@Cian. For clarity, that paper isn’t just the back of a fag packet and a nod and a wink. It is written into UK legislation Immigration Act 1971 and subsequent regulations and is recognised in Protocol 20 to the Treaty on European Union which allows UK and Ireland to make our own arrangements for the movement of people. UK and Ireland is unique and the movement of people between the two jurisdictions is unique.
Nothing under Brexit means that there has to be anything other than a customs border unless one is imposed by the EU.
Cian
@Listrade
I didn’t say otherwise. CTA is about Irish/British living, studying and working in Ireland/UK. But it doesn’t talk about border control. As I said above, you need to prove you are Irish/British to move freely between the two countries. A hard border (with walls, and gates, and army, and guns, and passport checks) would not break the CTA (as long as they let you through the border).
Listrade
@Cian. All only necessary if it is imposed. Neither UK nor Ireland have to do that.
1. It is far to late to put in the infrastructure for such a border.
2. UK has said it won’t (criticised because it exposes UK to smuggling), but they will try to manage it through a form of tariffs that they think will still get through WTO rules.
3. To reiterate: UK has stated even with Hard Brexit it will not have a hard border, it’s up to Ireland to reciprocate if they want to. And it could just be a temporary arrangement until technology is put in. EU has said it is a UK Ireland issue to sort out, so it is doubtful they would insist on any infrastructure, they want us and UK to make a deal. The problem here is I disagree with Coveney policy of waiting for the UK to come up with the solution. We need to move past the whole thinking that it’s their mess and for them to sort out and agree the damned thing (which we can do).
4. UK and EU have discussed possibility of technology but both agreed it isn’t viable at the moment to maintaining an open border. Key being commitment to open border by UK.
5. Movement of people is not an issue, go back to CTA, the 2011 version where UK and Ireland agreed and set up a system to prevent illegal movement of people between the countries. They share information at the point of entry and it works.
6. Sharing of health and access to health care remains. That is another reason we will not have a hard border.
7. Customs, customs, customs. That’s it. the concern isn’t people, the concern isn’t illegal immigration it is about tariffs and the impact on local businesses as well as VAT.
All it takes is for Ireland to reciprocate the UK stance on movement of people and 99% of the chatter around a hard border goes.
some old quare
So the EU is going to say- that’s fine you two just sort it out? Hardly- neither side is going to allow that without additional checks going into GB and /or the rest of the EU.
And as for customs- we are not talking about the 1950s with a few eggs on a bike- the two economies are now so integrated that the upheaval is going to absolutely hammer local industries and- they are going to do whatever it takes to keep their businesses afloat- and why wouldn’t they?
But what amazes me the most is how people come up with these high handed solutions without even considering the absolute spider’s web of minor roads. The Irish Border was never deigned to be permanent- it is a line on a map without any real physical presence.
They couldn’t do it before so they sure as hell won’t be able to do it now- even just for customs- the local anger at such will make headlines right across the world.
Listrade
SOQ, Thats exactly what the EU has said, it is an Ireland and UK issue. The backstop was “agreed” in case there was no solution, but…Ireland put the whole emphasis on UK to find a solution and for them to come to Ireland with a proposal. There never was a physical solution at least not in the short term, but we could have agreed some proposals on intermediate measures, like UK has proposed with certain tariffs.
It can’t be a physical border because there’s no hope of building one, UK has said no passport checks on its side, so it wouldn’t have been too much of a cave in to sit down and agree some of the economic or trade aspects. At least to have something to propose to EU.
Ireland’s response was to only give the answer that the border must be in the Irish sea. That was never going to happen, so why not let civil servants get together while the politicians had their p*ssing contest?
This is my frustration. I don’t want Brexit. I know it will be bad. But the EU’S hardline approach was on the basis that it’d lead to a second vote with a reversal, revoking article 50 out of panic or a general election and a reversal.
We have to accept that all the politicians have acted in their own interest and not ours and not the people of the UK. Brexit is going to happen, egos need to get out the way and for the sake of giving in to Boris finding a solution.
The border issue can be solved. Trade issue between UK and Ireland can be solved. But not with the current positions being taken.
We could propose deals on British food entering Ireland for consumption. We can agree maintenance of standards. Even propose external audits. We can have similar stuff for food and ingredients that enters EU market through us. Like Pharma and all the audits and medical authorities they are audited to. All food is traceable. We can agree a production standard. We can audit.
We can agree manufacturing standards.
It’s not that difficult. It’s not possible in the next couple of months, but we’ve had 3 years to accept this and negotiate. Instead we went with the EU says No approach.
We knew the impact. We chose the wrong tactic.
But look outside of the UK and Irish media. Genuinely, the UK civil service has done some really good work. They haven’t just ignored the border, they’ve actually taken the concerns of NI citizens and businesses seriously and have plans in place to avoid a hard border. Yet why don’t we ever hear about this? Sure, it’s not perfect, but then Ireland didn’t get involved (and then were deliberately excluded because their only contribution was Irish Sea Border).
F*ck them all anyway. May, Boris, EU and FG. They’ve tried to elevate their political status and power trip at the expense of British and Irish citizens. And on both sides people have lapped up the media line of its the other side’s fault.
some old quare
This all reminds of the smuggler tale of the woman and her bike- she was stopped by customs six times a day because they suspected she was smuggling something. Each time they search the bike- but couldn’t find anything.
She made a great living out of selling cheap bikes apparently.
Man On Fire
The state trying to weasel out of paying redress to thalidomide sufferers.
Probably shielding the pharmaceutical giant who produced it.
Batty Brennan
€170 million is the claimed cost to search the archived records, “€250,000 for every 150,000 documents to be reviewed”.
That figure seems excessive. Would it not make more sense to take this opportunity to digitise the entire archive so that future investigations might be facilitated at relatively little cost?
Cian
If it is going to cost €170 million, for 33 survivors, can they not just settle for €5million each? and save all the protracted legal fees.
Batty Brennan
Make all those irritating people go away. Throw them a bone from the public purse. Don’t get to the root of the problem and expose the ineptitude of state bodies and the political class down the years. The youngest of those impacted by Thalidomide are now in their late 50s. They’ll all be dead in a few more years, sure. Why bother getting to the truth? It’s not as though we want this type of thing to never happen again.
How am I doing, Cian? Is that fairly close to the script?
kellyma
@ Batty, what level of ineptitude and manipulation is it going to uncover that we haven’t already seen over and over again? There will be no surprises here so if it were me id rather 5 million in my bank that I can use for my family
Batty Brennan
You should submit your application on that basis, if that’s how you feel about it. Don’t presume to decide for the other parties to the action.
deluded
Yet another chinless dweeb takes out his tiny shooter to spew his anger on a defenceless crowd in California.
It’s something I noticed about the Jordan Petersons and Charlie Kirks and Ben Shapiros, they’re not exactly manly are they? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6VixqvOcK8E
There’s something inherently pathetic about these “Might is Right” bootlickers with their cloying need to be special, (besides gross stupidity of course).
An Italian-Iranian white supremacist. One wonders at the point of anti-facts and anti-intellectualism that has turned great swathes of people against self reflection, understanding and empathy. I see this misery and sense of persecution in my own family: this need to kick back against the world but never against the power brokers who are actually responsible. Who instead lash out at the harmless and unchallenging around them and fashion great conspiracy theories instead of facing the actual thugs (challenging the real thugs just gets you bashed or dead, which is why these feeble dribbles pick safe targets for their tantrums).
Worthless, cowardly bullies who want a pecking order so they themselves can punch down.
However, I must be the bigger man here and try to understand what these whingeing snowflakes really need more than all the genuine and worthy cases around them.
eoin
“stumble” says the FT
“on the slide” says Guardian
“collapse” and “tumble” say others.
Sterling is down 2% in the past 24 hours against the Euro and the slide is continuing this morning.
EUR 1 = GBP 0.919 this morning.
eoin
Has one of Boris Johnson’s biggest donors and supporters, JC Bamford (JCB) sent a muffin basket to the their man in No 10. The 2% 24-hour decline in sterling will surely help their exports (as long as they have trading agreements with the countries in which their customers are based!).
scottser
so you’re saying it’s a good time to order another case from flavourly.com?
eoin
Probably. None of the serious currency people are predicting the euro to go much above £0.92 so this might be as good as it gets. On the other hand, the serious currency people expect “common sense” to prevail, even if there is some day-to-day jostling for negotiation position, so don’t blame me if it does reach £0.95 or more.
some old quare
The Irish Border @borderirish sez: My book will be £9.99 in the shops. By the time it’s published on Brexit Day you’ll get change out €10
Theresa May thought she was sending out an important message when she adopted the mardy cow look for that pic with Vladimir Putin last month because of the Skripal poisoning. Putin was bursting his hole laughing. Most people though May was a hypocrite because she had rolled the red carpet out for Putin and his associates previously after the Litvinenko poisoning.
And here’s Boris. Does he think his “grand gesture” of not doing Leo, the leader of Britain’s nearest neighbour and an ally in Europe, the courtesy of picking up the phone for seven days is going to impress us much? We know Boris wants to create a bumbling, Riggs-like “we’re craaaazzy [so we’re capable of anything including a no-deal Brexit]” persona, but please, save the dramatics for Spotlight.
Brother Barnabas
sturgeon ripped boris a new one yesterday- painfully humiliating experience for him. And the first of many. it’ll be a tough fee weeks for him while he slowly realises the lack of regard and level of resentment that’s out there waiting for him. gone by Christmas.
eoin
This morning in the courts.
The DPP has taken a case against the Indo, its editor Fionnan Sheehan and the journalist Nicola Anderson for publishing an article last November which allegedly led to the collapse of a rape trial. According to reporting earlier this year, Fionnan faces stiff penalties up to imprisonment.
“The DPP could seek the imprisonment of the journalists or a fine over publication of the report” reported the Times Ireland earlier this year. Fingers crossed [in a benevolent way, of course!]
Congratulations to the young lad in Cork for winning the Google science competition, and it seems a very worthy winner.
However I cannot help but note the disparity between a science competition first prize ($50,000) and a gaming first prize ($3,000,000, with $50,000 for 57th place).
I do not begrudge the players, but could Google not make it more to promote science as an option? I think they can afford it given their recent profit announcement.
That all being said, I wonder if we are now looking at a situation where gaming becomes a viable livelihood, not unlike how various sports developed from simple leisure activities into the multi million industries they are now? Will future school guidance counselors be telling future students to buff up their Fortnite skills for their resumes?
Listrade
Hate to break it to you, but E-Sports is already a viable livelihood. It’s huge. That kind of prize money isn’t that unique for major tournaments. The biggest difference is that Fortnite is more well known because of the parental addiction panic last year and also that a lot of the competitors were young teens. We even had an Irish lad over there (finished mid table).
Doesn’t take away from the argument about Google’s prize, but even though the whole E-Sports thing may be off many of our radars, it is already a “profession”. There’s even dramas where people are kicked off teams or swap teams and of course cheaters (the best type of drama). I’ll add for the record that it is also hugely entertaining. And the solo’s final of the Fortnite World Cup was actually a bloody good 3 hours of entertainment.
eoin
“e-sports”? Shooting zombies on your nintendo? God bless the marketeers!
Slightly Bemused
As opposed to hitting a small white ball about 2 inches in diameter off a big green ball about 7,000 miles in diameter, without moving the big green ball?
Listrade
*actually* Competitive Nintendo is limited to Smash Bros and Splatoon. No Zombies involved.
Batty Brennan
UL have offered undergrad and postgrad programmes in games development for a few years now, and very popular they are.
Slightly Bemused
That is interesting! I was not aware of that: good on UL!
B9Com From No
as do lots of other colleges
Slightly Bemused
No need to ‘hate to break it to’ me: I was genuinely curious. I was not aware of the extent of professional opportunities as gamers (as opposed to game designers,etc) and was merely wondering about it. No denigration was intended. I thank you for this information.
My comment about guidance counselors was more aimed at the failures of my own one in school who was useless and refused to consider non-traditional jobs even as the computer revolution was beginning. Many of my friends were advised to go into accounting but have since become very successful programmers. If gaming is a viable source of making a living it deserves to be considered as an option in discussions in schools.
Listrade
Oh, we’re on the same page. You were first to comment on it, so I chipped in from the perspective of a fan of E-Sports.
And we’re 100% in agreement on careers advice at schools. Aside from the whole expecting a 16 year old to know what they want to do with their whole lives, you get a limited choice of Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer, Account or go find an Apprenticeship. Decent book out recently called Range by David Epstein (important to note DAVID not Jeffrey). All about the research into benefits of not specialising until later in life (in sports and careers).
Not sure if E-Sports would make it onto the school curriculum though.
eoin
Digicel’s best bonds, bid price of 42c in the dollar this morning, down nearly 40% in one month and offering a yield of 40%. If I phoned you this morning to offer you an investment with a 40% annual rate of return, and told you it was in Denis O’Brien’s “main source of wealth”, what would you say?
Meanwhile, Digicel claims it’s all good [has it lost its communications director, Antonia Graham?]
And in Ireland, we’re about to award a €5 billion National Broadband Plan to a consortium which Denis joined at the last minute. If Denis is about to see the “main source of wealth” implode, how stable is that consortium?
eoin
If the Gardai think a handful of convictions, drug and guns seizures, in Ireland’s drug war between the Kinahan and Hutch drug trafficking organisations, is impressive while the country is being flooded with €1 billion of drugs every year, the Gardai can fupp off with themselves. Yesterday’s convictions are the equivalent of the battered auld fake rolexes the CAB proudly photograph and hand out to anyone who’ll listen. It’s a drop in the ocean. The Garda saying he hopes the convictions will deter people from getting involved in the drugs business is beyond naive.
eoin
I wonder will Mary Robinson be supporting “my friend” Princess Heya in London today and tomorrow where Leya is in the High Court trying to keep her two kids from the grip of Mo McToom, the dictator of Dubai and state-level landlord of the Kinahan drug trafficking organisation. Will we hear more about how Mo and his henchmen kidnapped two of his children, one in the UK and one in Indian coastal waters?
eoin
The case has opened in London.
Princess Heya, wife #3 of the 70-year old state-level landlord of the Kinahans, is being referred to as “the runaway wife”. You’ve heard of “runaway brides” but a “runaway wife”? Sounds incredibly belittling to the woman.
“state-level landlord of the Kinahans”
Give it a rest eoin. Is Varadkar the “state-level landlord of the Kinahans” here in Ireland?
eoin
Does anyone understand the €1.1 million payout to the man who was wrongfully arrested by the Gardai [who say they believed he has assaulted his girlfriend]. The Gardai claim the man resisted and had to be peppersprayed. The man was innocent, but the Gardai claim they had grounds to arrest him.
For the Judge to award €1.1m, you’d need to conclude the Gardai were lying through their teeth and they’d carried out a gratuitous assault. Is that the case, and if so, why are these Gardai still in a job.
Listrade
You need to be more specific and breakdown the award, because the papers don’t pick up as much on a very specific issue.
First, of the €1.1m, €800K was for actual injury (physical and psychological). It’s the remaining 300K that is the important stuff. That’s exemplary damages (our punitive). You don’t come across them that much and the Supreme Court has some rules (from a wrongful arrest case in 2007), but they are wholly to send a message the court’s “particular disapproval of the defendant’s conduct in all the circumstances of the case and its decision that it should publicly be seen to have punished the defendant for such conduct.”
Basically, the Gardai acted abhorrently in their actions and then lied about it. But it takes more than the arresting officers to lie, it takes the whole station, those in charge and the legal team who decided to defend the case.
The exemplary damages are quite high and I expect that will be appealed to the Supreme Court. Because that’s what the d*cks do.
B9Com From No
Thanks Listrade
From what I read the Guards were out of order here.
Nonetheless they made a seemingly genuine mistake.
Maybe there was a cover up subsequent to this but the amount of damages for a simple case of mistaken identity are absurd on their face and should rightfully be appealed -/ this is our money.
The Old Boy
Civil claims against the Gardaí of this type are heard as jury trials. Much like in defamation cases, the jury can make up their own figure, which is why this was such a substantial award compared to judicially awarded civil damages. The jury are not required to provide a breakdown of the general damages, nor a reason for either the finding of exemplary damages or the amount awarded.
The judge was quite happy to stay all but a small portion of the award pending an appeal.
Man On Fire
@ Eoin
They arrested a serial rapist for it, he got 7 years. Yet the cops still seem to think the husband did it.
some old quare
Boris Johnson’s new Brexit chief wants to scrap Theresa May’s commitment on workers’ rights
Well if that doesn’t give Corbyn a kick up the backside then I don’t know what will.
dav
Corbyn’s ineptitude in opposition has been a gift to the right-wing brexiteers
Are the lies under oath by Lord Brammel mentioned, he claims not to know alleged Beech victim Greville Janner. Which is a lie. I do understand why he perjured himself though.
In the trial of the child abuse whistleblower Carl Beech, the judge blocked the cross-examination of Harvey Proctor, who is alleged to have murdered children.
The police searched Harvey proctor’s home, at the Duke of Rutland’s Belvoir castle.
In Proctor’s home, the police found whips, straps, blood-stained child’s underwear and a notepads entitled ‘Bizarrre sex’
Disgraced Proctor was previously convicted of gross indecency when caught with underage rent boys.
” No action was taken and police returned all the seized items ”
You can close you net curtains now …
Man On Fire
And why was no action taken?
Proctor denied the police’ request for a blood sample.
Charger Salmons
So you think the police just said ” righty-ho,we’re off then. ” ?
I’ve not doubt you think the moon landings were faked too.
What drivel.
Man On Fire
It seems that’s exactly what happened..
If you bothered to read the article which I tagged you onto, you would see that the defence were blocked from cross examination of Proctor by the judge.
Poor charger and his beloved pedo facilitating tory party.
Charger Salmons
” In Proctor’s home, the police found whips, straps, blood-stained child’s underwear and a notepads entitled ‘Bizarrre sex’ ”
You might want to let Bodger have a link for this …
I wasn’t about to say, “I told you so”. No deal – Hard Border.
not much of a revelation there
Or another way of looking at it shayna is- No Deal- No GFA.
Shredding an international treaty is not a great look when you are trying to negotiate new trade deals.
“Or another way of looking at it shayna is- No Deal- No GFA”
How does no deal break the GFA?
It imposes a border, breaking the agreement.
Only a Customs Border, The Common Travel Area between UK and Ireland is independent to the EU and will remain. There will be no passport checks, there will be free movement, the CTA also allows for people who have qualified for work and travel visas in either jurisdiction to freely move. None of that would change with a Hard Brexit.
A customs border means lorries will be queuing up. But there’s nothing in the GFA about a queue of lorries.
The CTA is a nod and a wink policy. It’s not official and it can continue to exist due to shared EU membership. If the UK leave the EU without a deal there will have to be some sort of checks on the CTA. The Brits had checks despite the CTA for years through their Prevention of Terrorism Act.
They still do, in fact. The CTA arrangements seem to be regarded as mere helpful suggestions by many frontline staff in the UK Border Force.
@Repro:
1. the terrorism issue was different to what we will have with Brexit. Also CTA applies to Isle of Man and Channel Islands, so it can’t just be withdrawn without even greater issues for UK.
2. Both UK and Ireland have stated it will remain. It is separate to the backstop. It isn’t just an aim, it is a specific policy and commitment that both Governments have stated.
3. EU is more concerned about an economic border than people border. They want trade to be free and easy between member states and expensive and difficult with non-EU. It’s concern for the border is purely economic. Movement of people is up to member states.
There are issues with the GFA, well only one to be fair, I’m just tired of the RTE line of barbed wire and sniper towers on the border when that is not going to happen.
@ Listrade
There is no distinction made between different types of border infrastructure – it is a Boolean value.
Any semblance of infrastructure along the border- including customs will result in civil disobedience- at which point Britain will reinstate its military under the guise of security.
Back to square one then.
Besides, is not so much what the GFA legally is as what it was perceived to be which was important during the peace process- and still is.
The UK and EU have also both said they don’t want a border but if the UK choose to leave without a deal a border is what we’ll be getting. There’s no two ways around that. Freedom of movement is one of the four pillars of the EU but the UK will no longer be part of the EU so there’ll have to be checks. If the CTA covers Irish and British citizens how can they prevent French, American or South African tourists using it without checks?
It’ll be grand though. Britain will not leave without a deal and that deal will include the backstop so there’ll be no border and no checks.
@Repro.
What the perception of the GFA is and what it actually is on paper may be different, but it isn’t helped by the suggestion (and even in the media) that it is at risk. It isn’t. And it’s unhelpful to keep they line going that we will be heading back to the 70s and 80s immediately.
To me the issue of the CTA is actually one for the EU. UK/Ireland is totally unique and it requires a unique solution. UK and Ireland have committed to CTA, really it is for the EU to confirm it would accept the CTA in the event of a hard brexit. Again, there are things not being reported that show the UK (outside of Boris Bleating) has offered branches to soften a hard brexit. Like accepting EU passports for free movement and EU Travel Visas within UK in event of Hard Brexit. EU has said it will only accept UK equivalents if UK agrees to regulatory alignment (or the 2 year backstop).
It’s a simple enough deal and you can make it a pseudo-regulatory alignment by stating that as long as the UK maintains an equivalent standard of security and checks, then the Passports and Visas will be honoured. It can agree to honour the CTA. In fact, it can do that for practically everything. But it isn’t.
This is why you start getting suspicious that the EU may not be totally acting in Ireland’s best interests.
Even in a hard brexit we could easily have CTA and GFA in existence. We then have diversionary routes for heavy goods where they go through a customs border and the roads are open for people. I don’t see how that would cause unrest. Even the Norway/Sweden Border still has some checks on passports, but they’re random and limited.
The CTA isn’t worth the paper it’s written on when it applies to border controls. Why? Because it only applies to citizens of Ireland and the UK. So you need to prove that you are an Irish/UK citizen to be able to travel freely. How do you prove you are an Irish/UK citizen? Show a passport.
Free movement – can mean no visa; not no passport/boarder control.
A perfect Catch-22!
@Cian. For clarity, that paper isn’t just the back of a fag packet and a nod and a wink. It is written into UK legislation Immigration Act 1971 and subsequent regulations and is recognised in Protocol 20 to the Treaty on European Union which allows UK and Ireland to make our own arrangements for the movement of people. UK and Ireland is unique and the movement of people between the two jurisdictions is unique.
Nothing under Brexit means that there has to be anything other than a customs border unless one is imposed by the EU.
@Listrade
I didn’t say otherwise. CTA is about Irish/British living, studying and working in Ireland/UK. But it doesn’t talk about border control. As I said above, you need to prove you are Irish/British to move freely between the two countries. A hard border (with walls, and gates, and army, and guns, and passport checks) would not break the CTA (as long as they let you through the border).
@Cian. All only necessary if it is imposed. Neither UK nor Ireland have to do that.
1. It is far to late to put in the infrastructure for such a border.
2. UK has said it won’t (criticised because it exposes UK to smuggling), but they will try to manage it through a form of tariffs that they think will still get through WTO rules.
3. To reiterate: UK has stated even with Hard Brexit it will not have a hard border, it’s up to Ireland to reciprocate if they want to. And it could just be a temporary arrangement until technology is put in. EU has said it is a UK Ireland issue to sort out, so it is doubtful they would insist on any infrastructure, they want us and UK to make a deal. The problem here is I disagree with Coveney policy of waiting for the UK to come up with the solution. We need to move past the whole thinking that it’s their mess and for them to sort out and agree the damned thing (which we can do).
4. UK and EU have discussed possibility of technology but both agreed it isn’t viable at the moment to maintaining an open border. Key being commitment to open border by UK.
5. Movement of people is not an issue, go back to CTA, the 2011 version where UK and Ireland agreed and set up a system to prevent illegal movement of people between the countries. They share information at the point of entry and it works.
6. Sharing of health and access to health care remains. That is another reason we will not have a hard border.
7. Customs, customs, customs. That’s it. the concern isn’t people, the concern isn’t illegal immigration it is about tariffs and the impact on local businesses as well as VAT.
All it takes is for Ireland to reciprocate the UK stance on movement of people and 99% of the chatter around a hard border goes.
So the EU is going to say- that’s fine you two just sort it out? Hardly- neither side is going to allow that without additional checks going into GB and /or the rest of the EU.
And as for customs- we are not talking about the 1950s with a few eggs on a bike- the two economies are now so integrated that the upheaval is going to absolutely hammer local industries and- they are going to do whatever it takes to keep their businesses afloat- and why wouldn’t they?
But what amazes me the most is how people come up with these high handed solutions without even considering the absolute spider’s web of minor roads. The Irish Border was never deigned to be permanent- it is a line on a map without any real physical presence.
They couldn’t do it before so they sure as hell won’t be able to do it now- even just for customs- the local anger at such will make headlines right across the world.
SOQ, Thats exactly what the EU has said, it is an Ireland and UK issue. The backstop was “agreed” in case there was no solution, but…Ireland put the whole emphasis on UK to find a solution and for them to come to Ireland with a proposal. There never was a physical solution at least not in the short term, but we could have agreed some proposals on intermediate measures, like UK has proposed with certain tariffs.
It can’t be a physical border because there’s no hope of building one, UK has said no passport checks on its side, so it wouldn’t have been too much of a cave in to sit down and agree some of the economic or trade aspects. At least to have something to propose to EU.
Ireland’s response was to only give the answer that the border must be in the Irish sea. That was never going to happen, so why not let civil servants get together while the politicians had their p*ssing contest?
This is my frustration. I don’t want Brexit. I know it will be bad. But the EU’S hardline approach was on the basis that it’d lead to a second vote with a reversal, revoking article 50 out of panic or a general election and a reversal.
We have to accept that all the politicians have acted in their own interest and not ours and not the people of the UK. Brexit is going to happen, egos need to get out the way and for the sake of giving in to Boris finding a solution.
The border issue can be solved. Trade issue between UK and Ireland can be solved. But not with the current positions being taken.
We could propose deals on British food entering Ireland for consumption. We can agree maintenance of standards. Even propose external audits. We can have similar stuff for food and ingredients that enters EU market through us. Like Pharma and all the audits and medical authorities they are audited to. All food is traceable. We can agree a production standard. We can audit.
We can agree manufacturing standards.
It’s not that difficult. It’s not possible in the next couple of months, but we’ve had 3 years to accept this and negotiate. Instead we went with the EU says No approach.
We knew the impact. We chose the wrong tactic.
But look outside of the UK and Irish media. Genuinely, the UK civil service has done some really good work. They haven’t just ignored the border, they’ve actually taken the concerns of NI citizens and businesses seriously and have plans in place to avoid a hard border. Yet why don’t we ever hear about this? Sure, it’s not perfect, but then Ireland didn’t get involved (and then were deliberately excluded because their only contribution was Irish Sea Border).
F*ck them all anyway. May, Boris, EU and FG. They’ve tried to elevate their political status and power trip at the expense of British and Irish citizens. And on both sides people have lapped up the media line of its the other side’s fault.
This all reminds of the smuggler tale of the woman and her bike- she was stopped by customs six times a day because they suspected she was smuggling something. Each time they search the bike- but couldn’t find anything.
She made a great living out of selling cheap bikes apparently.
The state trying to weasel out of paying redress to thalidomide sufferers.
Probably shielding the pharmaceutical giant who produced it.
€170 million is the claimed cost to search the archived records, “€250,000 for every 150,000 documents to be reviewed”.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/government-tries-to-block-high-court-order-over-thalidomide-documents-1.3971109
That figure seems excessive. Would it not make more sense to take this opportunity to digitise the entire archive so that future investigations might be facilitated at relatively little cost?
If it is going to cost €170 million, for 33 survivors, can they not just settle for €5million each? and save all the protracted legal fees.
Make all those irritating people go away. Throw them a bone from the public purse. Don’t get to the root of the problem and expose the ineptitude of state bodies and the political class down the years. The youngest of those impacted by Thalidomide are now in their late 50s. They’ll all be dead in a few more years, sure. Why bother getting to the truth? It’s not as though we want this type of thing to never happen again.
How am I doing, Cian? Is that fairly close to the script?
@ Batty, what level of ineptitude and manipulation is it going to uncover that we haven’t already seen over and over again? There will be no surprises here so if it were me id rather 5 million in my bank that I can use for my family
You should submit your application on that basis, if that’s how you feel about it. Don’t presume to decide for the other parties to the action.
Yet another chinless dweeb takes out his tiny shooter to spew his anger on a defenceless crowd in California.
It’s something I noticed about the Jordan Petersons and Charlie Kirks and Ben Shapiros, they’re not exactly manly are they? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6VixqvOcK8E
There’s something inherently pathetic about these “Might is Right” bootlickers with their cloying need to be special, (besides gross stupidity of course).
An Italian-Iranian white supremacist. One wonders at the point of anti-facts and anti-intellectualism that has turned great swathes of people against self reflection, understanding and empathy. I see this misery and sense of persecution in my own family: this need to kick back against the world but never against the power brokers who are actually responsible. Who instead lash out at the harmless and unchallenging around them and fashion great conspiracy theories instead of facing the actual thugs (challenging the real thugs just gets you bashed or dead, which is why these feeble dribbles pick safe targets for their tantrums).
Worthless, cowardly bullies who want a pecking order so they themselves can punch down.
However, I must be the bigger man here and try to understand what these whingeing snowflakes really need more than all the genuine and worthy cases around them.
“stumble” says the FT
“on the slide” says Guardian
“collapse” and “tumble” say others.
Sterling is down 2% in the past 24 hours against the Euro and the slide is continuing this morning.
EUR 1 = GBP 0.919 this morning.
Has one of Boris Johnson’s biggest donors and supporters, JC Bamford (JCB) sent a muffin basket to the their man in No 10. The 2% 24-hour decline in sterling will surely help their exports (as long as they have trading agreements with the countries in which their customers are based!).
so you’re saying it’s a good time to order another case from flavourly.com?
Probably. None of the serious currency people are predicting the euro to go much above £0.92 so this might be as good as it gets. On the other hand, the serious currency people expect “common sense” to prevail, even if there is some day-to-day jostling for negotiation position, so don’t blame me if it does reach £0.95 or more.
The Irish Border @borderirish sez: My book will be £9.99 in the shops. By the time it’s published on Brexit Day you’ll get change out €10
https://twitter.com/BorderIrish/status/1156123996049563648
It really is a rarefied bubble in Westminster.
Theresa May thought she was sending out an important message when she adopted the mardy cow look for that pic with Vladimir Putin last month because of the Skripal poisoning. Putin was bursting his hole laughing. Most people though May was a hypocrite because she had rolled the red carpet out for Putin and his associates previously after the Litvinenko poisoning.
And here’s Boris. Does he think his “grand gesture” of not doing Leo, the leader of Britain’s nearest neighbour and an ally in Europe, the courtesy of picking up the phone for seven days is going to impress us much? We know Boris wants to create a bumbling, Riggs-like “we’re craaaazzy [so we’re capable of anything including a no-deal Brexit]” persona, but please, save the dramatics for Spotlight.
sturgeon ripped boris a new one yesterday- painfully humiliating experience for him. And the first of many. it’ll be a tough fee weeks for him while he slowly realises the lack of regard and level of resentment that’s out there waiting for him. gone by Christmas.
This morning in the courts.
The DPP has taken a case against the Indo, its editor Fionnan Sheehan and the journalist Nicola Anderson for publishing an article last November which allegedly led to the collapse of a rape trial. According to reporting earlier this year, Fionnan faces stiff penalties up to imprisonment.
“The DPP could seek the imprisonment of the journalists or a fine over publication of the report” reported the Times Ireland earlier this year. Fingers crossed [in a benevolent way, of course!]
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/independent-faces-dpp-case-over-collapse-of-rape-trial-dk8v5fnqc
Congratulations to the young lad in Cork for winning the Google science competition, and it seems a very worthy winner.
However I cannot help but note the disparity between a science competition first prize ($50,000) and a gaming first prize ($3,000,000, with $50,000 for 57th place).
I do not begrudge the players, but could Google not make it more to promote science as an option? I think they can afford it given their recent profit announcement.
That all being said, I wonder if we are now looking at a situation where gaming becomes a viable livelihood, not unlike how various sports developed from simple leisure activities into the multi million industries they are now? Will future school guidance counselors be telling future students to buff up their Fortnite skills for their resumes?
Hate to break it to you, but E-Sports is already a viable livelihood. It’s huge. That kind of prize money isn’t that unique for major tournaments. The biggest difference is that Fortnite is more well known because of the parental addiction panic last year and also that a lot of the competitors were young teens. We even had an Irish lad over there (finished mid table).
Doesn’t take away from the argument about Google’s prize, but even though the whole E-Sports thing may be off many of our radars, it is already a “profession”. There’s even dramas where people are kicked off teams or swap teams and of course cheaters (the best type of drama). I’ll add for the record that it is also hugely entertaining. And the solo’s final of the Fortnite World Cup was actually a bloody good 3 hours of entertainment.
“e-sports”? Shooting zombies on your nintendo? God bless the marketeers!
As opposed to hitting a small white ball about 2 inches in diameter off a big green ball about 7,000 miles in diameter, without moving the big green ball?
*actually* Competitive Nintendo is limited to Smash Bros and Splatoon. No Zombies involved.
UL have offered undergrad and postgrad programmes in games development for a few years now, and very popular they are.
That is interesting! I was not aware of that: good on UL!
as do lots of other colleges
No need to ‘hate to break it to’ me: I was genuinely curious. I was not aware of the extent of professional opportunities as gamers (as opposed to game designers,etc) and was merely wondering about it. No denigration was intended. I thank you for this information.
My comment about guidance counselors was more aimed at the failures of my own one in school who was useless and refused to consider non-traditional jobs even as the computer revolution was beginning. Many of my friends were advised to go into accounting but have since become very successful programmers. If gaming is a viable source of making a living it deserves to be considered as an option in discussions in schools.
Oh, we’re on the same page. You were first to comment on it, so I chipped in from the perspective of a fan of E-Sports.
And we’re 100% in agreement on careers advice at schools. Aside from the whole expecting a 16 year old to know what they want to do with their whole lives, you get a limited choice of Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer, Account or go find an Apprenticeship. Decent book out recently called Range by David Epstein (important to note DAVID not Jeffrey). All about the research into benefits of not specialising until later in life (in sports and careers).
Not sure if E-Sports would make it onto the school curriculum though.
Digicel’s best bonds, bid price of 42c in the dollar this morning, down nearly 40% in one month and offering a yield of 40%. If I phoned you this morning to offer you an investment with a 40% annual rate of return, and told you it was in Denis O’Brien’s “main source of wealth”, what would you say?
Meanwhile, Digicel claims it’s all good [has it lost its communications director, Antonia Graham?]
http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/digicel-tt-remains-financially-stable-6.2.897041.82fdf82979
And in Ireland, we’re about to award a €5 billion National Broadband Plan to a consortium which Denis joined at the last minute. If Denis is about to see the “main source of wealth” implode, how stable is that consortium?
If the Gardai think a handful of convictions, drug and guns seizures, in Ireland’s drug war between the Kinahan and Hutch drug trafficking organisations, is impressive while the country is being flooded with €1 billion of drugs every year, the Gardai can fupp off with themselves. Yesterday’s convictions are the equivalent of the battered auld fake rolexes the CAB proudly photograph and hand out to anyone who’ll listen. It’s a drop in the ocean. The Garda saying he hopes the convictions will deter people from getting involved in the drugs business is beyond naive.
I wonder will Mary Robinson be supporting “my friend” Princess Heya in London today and tomorrow where Leya is in the High Court trying to keep her two kids from the grip of Mo McToom, the dictator of Dubai and state-level landlord of the Kinahan drug trafficking organisation. Will we hear more about how Mo and his henchmen kidnapped two of his children, one in the UK and one in Indian coastal waters?
The case has opened in London.
Princess Heya, wife #3 of the 70-year old state-level landlord of the Kinahans, is being referred to as “the runaway wife”. You’ve heard of “runaway brides” but a “runaway wife”? Sounds incredibly belittling to the woman.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49162276
“state-level landlord of the Kinahans”
Give it a rest eoin. Is Varadkar the “state-level landlord of the Kinahans” here in Ireland?
Does anyone understand the €1.1 million payout to the man who was wrongfully arrested by the Gardai [who say they believed he has assaulted his girlfriend]. The Gardai claim the man resisted and had to be peppersprayed. The man was innocent, but the Gardai claim they had grounds to arrest him.
For the Judge to award €1.1m, you’d need to conclude the Gardai were lying through their teeth and they’d carried out a gratuitous assault. Is that the case, and if so, why are these Gardai still in a job.
You need to be more specific and breakdown the award, because the papers don’t pick up as much on a very specific issue.
First, of the €1.1m, €800K was for actual injury (physical and psychological). It’s the remaining 300K that is the important stuff. That’s exemplary damages (our punitive). You don’t come across them that much and the Supreme Court has some rules (from a wrongful arrest case in 2007), but they are wholly to send a message the court’s “particular disapproval of the defendant’s conduct in all the circumstances of the case and its decision that it should publicly be seen to have punished the defendant for such conduct.”
Basically, the Gardai acted abhorrently in their actions and then lied about it. But it takes more than the arresting officers to lie, it takes the whole station, those in charge and the legal team who decided to defend the case.
The exemplary damages are quite high and I expect that will be appealed to the Supreme Court. Because that’s what the d*cks do.
Thanks Listrade
From what I read the Guards were out of order here.
Nonetheless they made a seemingly genuine mistake.
Maybe there was a cover up subsequent to this but the amount of damages for a simple case of mistaken identity are absurd on their face and should rightfully be appealed -/ this is our money.
Civil claims against the Gardaí of this type are heard as jury trials. Much like in defamation cases, the jury can make up their own figure, which is why this was such a substantial award compared to judicially awarded civil damages. The jury are not required to provide a breakdown of the general damages, nor a reason for either the finding of exemplary damages or the amount awarded.
The judge was quite happy to stay all but a small portion of the award pending an appeal.
@ Eoin
They arrested a serial rapist for it, he got 7 years. Yet the cops still seem to think the husband did it.
Boris Johnson’s new Brexit chief wants to scrap Theresa May’s commitment on workers’ rights
Well if that doesn’t give Corbyn a kick up the backside then I don’t know what will.
Corbyn’s ineptitude in opposition has been a gift to the right-wing brexiteers
For anyone interested in the actual facts of the paedophile Carl Beech case
https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2019/jul/30/a-web-of-lies-carl-beech-vip-paedophile-ring-podcast?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Are the lies under oath by Lord Brammel mentioned, he claims not to know alleged Beech victim Greville Janner. Which is a lie. I do understand why he perjured himself though.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3064947/Lord-Janner-director-firm-THREE-WEEKS-ago-emerges-damning-dossier-alleges-police-chief-allowed-peer-molest-young-boys.html
And alleged Beech victim, Harvey Proctor..
In the trial of the child abuse whistleblower Carl Beech, the judge blocked the cross-examination of Harvey Proctor, who is alleged to have murdered children.
The police searched Harvey proctor’s home, at the Duke of Rutland’s Belvoir castle.
In Proctor’s home, the police found whips, straps, blood-stained child’s underwear and a notepads entitled ‘Bizarrre sex’
Disgraced Proctor was previously convicted of gross indecency when caught with underage rent boys.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4ZYSnN1I1P0/XTX8XTHFXHI/AAAAAAAAsLw/F16XXI0_UacCkl0XMdna2Zi_8WmG3SDlwCLcBGAs/s640/Proctor%2Bcarl%2B2.jpg
” No action was taken and police returned all the seized items ”
You can close you net curtains now …
And why was no action taken?
Proctor denied the police’ request for a blood sample.
So you think the police just said ” righty-ho,we’re off then. ” ?
I’ve not doubt you think the moon landings were faked too.
What drivel.
It seems that’s exactly what happened..
If you bothered to read the article which I tagged you onto, you would see that the defence were blocked from cross examination of Proctor by the judge.
Poor charger and his beloved pedo facilitating tory party.
” In Proctor’s home, the police found whips, straps, blood-stained child’s underwear and a notepads entitled ‘Bizarrre sex’ ”
You might want to let Bodger have a link for this …
Poor charger and his beloved tory child abusers.
https://youtu.be/EjJeQSfFhj8
https://twitter.com/JannerQc/status/1148257763006529537?s=09
Boris the pedophiles choice for pm..
For Bodger..
And to satisfy Charger.
http://www.foiacentre.com/news-Nick-trial-Carl-Beech-Harvey-Proctor.html
Alleged Beech victim and close friend of Jimmy Savile, Ted Heath..
Police examined Edward Heath’s close-protection logs, but these were missing for a period during 1970’s and 1980’s.
Isn’t that convenient..
Alleged Beech victim, Leon Britton..
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/leon-brittan-sex-abuse-allegations-two-come-forward-to-claim-they-were-abused-by-former-home-10001676.html
https://www.exaronews.com/ex-flatmates-support-jane-over-rape-claim-against-leon-brittan
Alleged Beech victim, Peter Hayman..
http://www.foiacentre.com/news-CSA-inquiry-Peter-Hayman-Bryan-Collins.html
Triggered
Changer Sameone is very quiet today
Must be that the pimms haze is abating
By jove, a chap has a bit of a lie-in after a raucous dinner party and he’s still driving the botttom-sniffers demented.
Translation:
” I drank turps again and have only now been released from A&E”