A Final Betrayal

at

From top: Katherine Zappone, Minister for Children and Youth Affairs and Pat Rabbitte, chair of Tusla,  the child and family agency

This morning.

Via The Irish Times:

People under investigation for child abuse, including sexual abuse, will be permitted to personally interview their alleged victims in certain circumstances under new Tusla investigatory procedures.

…If direct questioning is judged inappropriate, other forms of “stress testing” should be considered, including allowing the suspect to write out questions to be put to the complainant, allowing their solicitor to question the complainant or allowing the suspect to ask questions via video link.

In some cases a suspect may be allowed to be in the room while questions are put by a social worker, the guidelines state. “Consider using a screen to separate the complainant or witness who is being questioned.

Tusla staff are instructed that the identity of the alleged victim should be disclosed to the suspect at an early stage, even in cases where the “complainant is at serious risk from the [alleged abuser].”

Meanwhile…

Last October, Fianna Fáil TD Anne Rabbitte asked Minister for Children and Youth Affairs Katherine Zappone several questions about Tusla’s new Child Abuse Substantiation Procedures, including when they would be made public, how the procedures would work and how they would be managed by Tusla. Ms Zappone said she would ask Tusla to contact Ms Rabbitte directly.

Alleged child abusers to be allowed interview complainants (Conor Gallagher, Jack Power, The Irish Times)

Rollingnews

Update: Yes, They’re Serious

61 thoughts on “A Final Betrayal

    1. Heidi

      Tusla is the modern day Church in terms of child abuse, silencing, intimidating and shaming victims! Why are we not making this a bigger deal during the election !?

  1. Dr.Fart

    jesus christ.. that is absolutely unbelievable. it’s one thing to have outdated laws on abuse, but to introduce new ones so incredibly callous is just evil. what the hell.

      1. V

        +V

        Here’s hoping Dublin South West give Zappone a proper two fingers on Saturday
        And if anyone is still in doubt about how important their preference vote is

        This woman opened on 6ish % last time out
        And still made it

        And all the way into a Ministerial post with less than 5,000 1st preference votes

        So watch where yere scratching those ballots lads

    1. Ann

      This CANNOT HAPEN. I would be up for murder if my child was allowed to be intimidated by the bastard who abused her/him. I can’t believe this. I hadn’t heard it before, I would have brought it up with the candidate who called to my door.

  2. Charger Salmons

    TUSLA is headed by Pat Rabitte.
    Why would you expect anything different from an organisation run by a failed politician rewarded with a government sinecure.

    1. bisted

      …retired in the comfort of his ministerial limo…has pensions coming out of his…nice sinecure as chairman of high-profile govn board…where did all go wrong Pat?

      1. Robert

        and all it cost him was any hope of Labour ever getting into government ever again …

        sure that’s what you do during an election…

        dzope

  3. garrett

    And Zappone is a member of the FG government. Choose your vote wisely

    Child sex abuse investigation, the responsibility of:

    child and family agency
    Dept of Justice
    HSE
    Dept of Health

    All of the above?
    None of the above?

  4. LuvinLunch

    I wonder about the redress schemes. there were loads of abusers named but barely any convictions.. where did all the paedos go?

  5. Padraig

    this is unbelievable, our Child Protection Agency is letting the alleged abuser interview the children who make the complaint. The guiding principle of Tusla so be at all times protect the child yet here we are in a published policy document that we don’t believe the child and will expose the child to the abuser. This needs to be investigated

    1. Emmanuel

      There are two principles of natural justice, audi alteram partem (the other party must be heard) and nemo iudex in causa sua (you cannot be a judge in your own cause). These principles must be adhered to if we want a fair and just legal system. Think about these principles and try not to let emotions cloud your judgement.

    2. Ian

      What do you expect from a FG government which was nothing more than a proxy…just there to inflict their EU bosses liberal agenda on the native irish people, FG do not care about Irish citizens and have treated us with pure distain. They are nothing more than willing EU puppets.

  6. Emmanuel

    There are two principles of natural justice, audi alteram partem (the other party must be heard) and nemo iudex in causa sua (you cannot be a judge in your own cause). These principles must be adhered to if we want a fair a just legal system. Think about these principles and try not to let emotions cloud your judgement.

    1. GiggidyGoo

      Applies to natural justice obviously. We are discussing Rabbitte, Zappone and Tulsa here. Unnatural .

  7. Emmanuel

    There are two principles of natural justice, audi alteram partem (the other party must be heard) and nemo iudex in causa sua (you cannot be a judge in your own cause). These principles must be adhered to if we want a fair and just legal system. Think about these principles and try not to let emotions cloud your judgement.

  8. Emmacha

    It should be The Gardaí who do this, not tusla. (Investigate abuse claims)
    Tusla should be listening to the children and supporting them on all levels, and any questioning should only be indirect, gentle, using an experienced professional psychologist / pediatrician team trained in childhood trauma & PTSD. (Children express trauma & disclose abuse very differently to adults)

    1. postmanpat

      Don’t be silly, you forgot about the gravy train. Your solution doesn’t get any clown in a suit (or wearer of witches hats ) any extra money. No No No… you have to spread the responsibility wide and thin so each party can blame the other . Play both sides and keep the sweet sweet money rolling in indefinitely. All aboard!! choo choo!!!

  9. peter jennings

    With all You comments here how are most if You going to vote on Saturday .That is the way to sort out these issues not on here complaining .There is no point in electing the same sh..e and then complaing You irish people get Your heads out of the sand You morans

        1. Emmanuel

          That’s a new one to add to my thesaurus of terms for: “Those who should break the habit of a lifetime and perhaps read a book”.

  10. Fearganainm

    The proposed confrontational scenario, putting an alleged victim in a room to be questioned/harangued by an alleged perpetrator, is identical to circumatances branded as utterly disgusting by champions of Mairia Cahill and others who read the details of the ‘investigations’ that she was subjected to.. Can anyone explain exactly when Kangaroo courts are a good thing and when potential witness intimidation is permissable?

        1. Emmanuel

          I’ve done the Children First training, I’ve read the relevant sections of the Children First Act;2015, I’ve had the lectures from Tusla reps, I know what a “Mandated Person” and “Designated Liaison Person” is, I know that it is incumbent on us all to report child abuse be it physical, mental or sexual and I know that mistakes are made which ruin lives.

      1. Fearganainm

        Are you suggesting that the alleged perpetrator should be allowed to interrogate an alleged victim? That isn’t the way that things are arranged in a court trial, is it? Can’t you see anything at all inappropriate in granting an alleged perpetrator an opportunity to browbeat/harangue/intimidate an alleged victim? What if the alleged perpetrator ISN’T innocent? Should a chance to reestablish warped power relations that may be the result of years of grooming and abuse be granted for the kind of cross-examination being proposed? Is revictimising and retraumatising someone really the way to go? There are already procedures in place for someone to have his/her innocence defended, allowing anyone to directly confront an accuser isn’t a positive move.

        1. Emmanuel

          There are two principles of natural justice, audi alteram partem (the other party must be heard) and nemo iudex in causa sua (you cannot be a judge in your own cause). These principles must be adhered to if we want a fair and just legal system. Think about these principles and try not to let emotions cloud your judgement

        2. Emmanuel

          I’ve done the Children First training, I’ve read the relevant sections of the Children First Act 2015, I’ve had the lectures from Tusla reps, I know what a “Mandated Person” and “Designated Liaison Person” is, I know that it is incumbent on us all to report child abuse be it physical, mental or sexual and I know that mistakes are made which ruin lives. What have you done?

          1. Fearganainm

            You don’t seem to have done anything about O.C.D. Why the cut and pasting? And why the irrelevant replies to the issues raised? Are you advocating confrontational encounters or not?

            P.S. I’ve got lots and lots and lots of qualifications and lots and lots and lots of life experience. Impressive line to throw out there, eh?

          2. Emmanuel

            No one who has qualifications says that they have “lots and lots of qualifications” and they certainly don’t use “P.S.” in a text.

          3. millie vanilly strikes again

            This is a comment section, so it is a comment, not a text – so, irrelevant. And it is nice to see that you are addressing all of the points raised in a respectful manner as opposed to copied and pasted answer as per all of your comments which appear above.

            The concerns raised in this thread are valid and highly understandable considering our state’s extremely poor handling of abuse cases, especially where child sexual abuse is concerned.

  11. Jazzy

    This is the end of TUSLA. What needs to be asked is who instigated this proposal and why? TUSLA’s behaviour in this is questionable as are the TD’s involved. Those who are supposed to be protecting the victims are empowering the suspected perpetrators. Why?

    1. Orla

      Agreed who thought this was appropriate? Social workers should not be interviewing children or adults who suffered csa at all unless they are qualified psychotherapists with specialisation in csa. Tusla allowing the accused abusers question children or adults who suffered csa is vile. Whoever thought it was ok should be sacked.

  12. Emmanuel

    I’ve done the Children First training, I’ve read the relevant sections of the Children First Act 2015, I’ve had the lectures from Tusla reps, I know what a “Mandated Person” and “Designated Liaison Person” is, I know that it is incumbent on us all to report child abuse be it physical, mental or sexual and I know that mistakes are made which ruin lives. What have you done?

    1. Fearganainm

      I’ve decided to ignore your repeated wittering. That’s what I’ve done.

      audi alteram partem is all very well but not when the other party’s a parrot

  13. A Person

    This proposal is horrific. What is equally horrific are people on here trying to make it a political issue. Shame on you.

  14. Emmanuel

    We live in a “post truth” world. Objective facts mean nothing in the face of emotion and personal beliefs.

  15. Truth in the News

    Who appointed Pat Rabbitte Chairman of TUSLA, what is he paid given that he is
    already in receipt of a sizable political Pension , as to Zappone she is Zapped

  16. Emer

    How is a child victim able to put their voice across if they have been abused and must be questioned by their abuser. This is completely inappropriate regardless of principle of natural justice, because both parties deserve to put their side across. The burden of proof is on the victim and it’s beyond reasonable doubt. The conviction rate of reported sexual offenses is quite low as it is. This will further silence victims.

  17. Steph Pinker

    There are adults who have died by suicide and others who still live with the sickening legacy of abuse in its many forms – how is a child supposed/ expected to cope psychologically, emotionally and physically with the physical presence of their [former] abuser within a local environment – much less the same room?

    It’s beyond comprehension, and while I abhor SF – for all you FG/ FF/ Labour sycophants – don’t ever mention SF Kangaroo courts again – you’re bloody hypocrites.

  18. kellma

    The thought of this is abhorrent and i speak as someone who was severely emotionally and physically abused by an ex partner and having to deal with the prospect of said person representing himself in the DC for a barring order (which was granted). In the end they went with free legal aid but the possibility that I would have to go through being questioned directly by that person (who put the fear of god into me) was one of the most traumatic things I went through . I can’t imagine how a child that has been sexually abused could survive the same…… It is horrific. Yes there are instances where false allegations are laid (in all circumstances) and everyone is entitled to a chance to prove their innocence but this cannot be the way.

    1. V

      Feck Kellma

      I know you’ll never really get over that part of your life,
      And you’ll always carry the scars of both that relationship and the trauma of the process you had to endure to get yourself out of it, but do try and always look forward and convince yourself there are better days ahead.

      You are physically out of that now – I hope anyway, so do yourself a favour and don’t let it dictate your future, or dominate your thoughts.

      Regards V

        1. millie vanilly strikes again

          Glad to hear it kellma. Keep yourself and your wee ones well and happy. That’s all that matters at the end of the day x

  19. S

    Corrupt to the core but as per usual the Irish people would rather have a whinge about it on facebook than do anything about it

Comments are closed.