Doctors Dan Erickson and Artin Massihi, co-owners of a California-based chain of Accelerated Urgent Care facilities. have conducting more than 5,000 coronavirus tests.

They say they  have ‘come to the conclusion that COVID-19 is no more dangerous than a normal seasonal flu and quarantines are not making any difference in preventing its spread’.

At a press conference (full link below) Dr Erickson said:

“Do we need to still shelter in place? Our answer is emphatically no. Do we need businesses to be shut down? Emphatically no. Do we need to test them and get them back to work? Absolutely.”

Doctor: After Doing 5,000 Coronavirus Tests, It’s Similar To The Flu And Quarantine Should End (Real Clear Politics)

Full press conference here…

Sponsored Link

117 thoughts on “Alternatively

  1. Rob_G

    While I don’t discount the view of these doctors, I don’t necessarily think that conclusions arrived at by two doctors (and no doubt, quite a many others) necessarily completely disproves the conclusions arrived at by (it seems) the vast majority of doctors, virologists, and epidemiologists who seem to be of the opinion that the lockdown measures are indeed necessary.

    1. Orla

      Are you another trust the expert authoritarian,trust the science etc ? Your view is far from science and You should stick to the journal comment section where fellow defeated personas are loving the end of days vibe and slapping down all those bold boys and girls who had any ambition in life, I joke and get what your saying but….

      Science is about direct observation where possible ,models are less direct ,if one person has a direct experience/observation and many others clearly see this then that’s scientific “experience” ,that stands even if 10 million experts had a different view/hypothesis , see past humanitarian issues/hysteria such as man declaring world is round for an example,stay home stay safe or you will fall off the earth!
      People won’t see this when perceptual lense is foggy with hysteria or conflict of interest,see those desperate for tenure and Ferguson’s the uk experts past predictions with his models ,same with the rest of them and their models, all way off.

      It’s an unfortunate reality that viruses like flu haven’t been eradicated and possibly won’t be ,many of us as we approach old age will have to accept it can be a confounding factor in our death ,the more alarming issue is in all this is people’s denial of their mortality ,their is no need to be blunt with this or act with disregard for the elderly like our current empty vessels in Leo and Simon however there is less need for our outright denial of our mortality.

      1. Nigel

        ‘Science is about direct observation where possible ,models are less direct ,if one person has a direct experience/observation and many others clearly see this then that’s scientific “experience” ,that stands even if 10 million experts had a different view/hypothesis’

        I see some people coming round to asserting definitively that in science anecdotes should be more important than data. Direct experiences and observations need to be reproduced and repeated to be scientifically significant. That’s really basic science.

      2. Rob_G

        So, you’re telling me that I am wrong for trusting some expoerts, but you are right for trusting some other experts…

        1. Orla

          I’m saying it’s not a simple Hegelian dialectic rob, there is more complexity and nuance,competing conflict of interests, more choices are always available.

          People are right to have reserves around the virologists past modeling ,Ferguson in the uk as one example predicted 2 million would die from bird flu when in reality it was a few hundred, The Who’s models have been way off in the past also, now say for example we heeded their advice in the past and selectively shut down economies,quarantined and enacted a police state for said past viruses,this would have been a poor choice because we have the hindsight of a different reality, we are told now that if we didn’t shut down for coronavirus millions would be be dead,it’s becoming a narrative of what if’s, this is a poor defense when we put their entire actions into the context of selective economic shutdown.
          Shut it down at the start ,stop flights, cheltenham ,fruit pickers,ignoring the elderly because they cost the government too much money anyway and allowing our coronavirus infected late late host tubs infect more guests and his staff because according to the experts we are not sure he is virus free, instead we have selective restrictions which is telling.

          My big issue is the enacting of a police state and the alarming ease at which this was achieved along with the potential for its subtle permanent establishment.

          With regard to the AMA , the Irish government represent 5 million of us and Leo regularly speaks on our behalf these days under the guise of a police state,just saying…..

          1. Mart Cattle

            ah fupp off with your police state boll ox
            how many times have the people concerned EVER faced any sort of issue like this?
            as soon as I see that it completely undermines any other argument you might have

          2. SOQ

            how many times have the people concerned EVER faced any sort of issue like this?

            At least once a year.

    2. Baz

      Should we ban automobiles Rob? 3700 deaths per day. 1.35 million per year.

      Lets ban all road use Rob.

      1. Nigel

        No to mention air pollution and carbon YES BAN AUTOMOBILES or at least reduce the need for them drastically and switch to electric as much as possible.

      2. Rob_G

        We should severely curtail the use of private motor vehicles to save people’s lives, yes.

      3. ReproBertie

        We have laws around the use of automobiles to try and improve their safety and the safety of those in their vicinity.

        We can’t ban the virus but we have new, temporary, laws to try and prevent the spread of this virus and to protect those more susceptible to it.

        1. Orla

          To be fair Bertie this legislation isn’t temporary, the shell of it remains after the sunset clause unless this is changed when dail get back full time.
          It’s also fair to say they clearly couldn’t care less about the elderly and the vulnerable in general hence the delay with a quarantine and now its a selective quarantine, planes still flying with cheltenham fans ,Italian rugby fans and fruit picker fans. You can still fly to London today if you want or Sweden if you fancy a walk for more than 2km.
          The bottom line is the virus has spread and will continue to do so.

          1. Cian

            The ‘shell of it [legislation]’ has been there since 1947 – when it was introduced to try to quell a TB outbreak. This is the second time its been invoked in 73 years later.

            It is temporary.

          2. ReproBertie

            “they clearly couldn’t care less about the elderly and the vulnerable in general hence the delay with a quarantine”

            Just because the experts on the National Public Health Emergency Team didn’t take the action that you, with all your qualifications, would have recommended does not mean they “clearly couldn’t care less about the elderly.” You seem to be arguing that the lockdown is both too much and also not enough.

  2. delacaravanio

    “…quarantines are not making any difference in preventing its spread”.

    Just to be clear, are they referring to social distancing or quarantine, because the former has clearly been very successful in reducing the spread. The difference in death rates between ourselves and across the water shows that clearly.

    1. Orla

      Is it a coronavirus competition now? As long as we are beating the English that’s all that matters.
      The Swedish are also “beating” the English with less excessive measures or “quarantine”.

      There is a context to the expression of “Quarantine is not working” ,it’s used with broader context in mind ,it appeals mainly to those who don’t feel socially defeated or get aroused by the big fellas business going under.

      We shouldn’t be replacing the sport withdrawal with a coronavirus Premier league. These Pavlovian urges can be contained and over come by insuring glucose enters the prefrontal cortex allowing patterns to be held for a longer time.

      It isn’t coronavirus or the economic consequences that will bring Ireland down but the stream of consciousness you can bare witness to on the

      1. sidhe

        Are you a fan of consigning anyone you don’t agree with to the journal commentariat, Orla? I may as well, with equal generosity, label you an anti vaxxer or trump supporter or something equally fallacious.

        1. Orla

          Fair point but it’s bad over there, doesn’t matter if it’s sports,covid19 or politics it’s just one authoritarian view point after another.
          Said authoritarians have crawled out into the light since the covid19 crisis, these personas couldn’t careless what the crisis is as long as their is “justification ” for slapping all the bold boys and girls, the Catholic Church was used by the same personas for long enough here,their contemporary incarnation have replaced Catholic Church with pop science,atheism and anything else they can hijack to justify their persona.

    2. Baz

      Really? thats your benchmark?

      How about comparing to Sweden? Lets do that.

      SWE 10.1m COVID-19 deaths 2274 = 1 death per 4441 persons
      IRL 4.8m COVID-19 deaths 1087 = 1 deaths per 4415 persons

      Now, tell me what we are doing so spectacularly?

      1. Rob_G

        Death rates per 100k:
        Norway (locked down) – 3.37
        Finland (locked down) – 2.56
        Sweden – 17.3

        1. SOQ

          At present but what happens once they are lifted? Slowing a spread is not the same as stopping it- they can’t stop it.

          Public health specialists in Sweden argue that the over all figures will be just about equal and if right- the difference is that they will not have let their SME sector go to the wall.

          Big business will bounce back, small ones will not.

          1. Cian

            Your a gas man SOQ.
            You were one of the first, and definitely most vocal on BS, saying that the government wasn’t doing enough about this ‘new’ virus and they should go full lockdown.

            Now you’re saying they shouldn’t have bothered and it is just the flu.

            What will you be next week?

          2. SOQ

            At no stage did I argue for the guards chasing people out of parks or behaving like the RUC with their checkpoints. A bit of friggen common sense wouldn’t go amiss.

            Was cancelling large events, restricting movement through airports and prioritising those most at risk in state care homes too much to ask?


          3. Cian

            @SOQ: funny of all your posts pre-lockdown on what the gubbermnet should do (or not do)… you never once mentioned prioritising those most at risk in state care homes.

            Obviously you don’t care for the elderly.

          4. SOQ

            @ V- As you well know, I never posted links to gay porn, only to a club night which was held on a server which allowed nudity- grow up eh?

            @ Cian- of course I never mentioned prioritising those most at risk in state care home because that should have been basic common sense. The mother of law suits is coming once this is over because the government advice to reopen was reckless endangerment.

          5. V-19

            Oh Dear SOQ

            I am not the only one you addressed links personally to with an @frilly or @johnny whatever

            I specifically remember one addressed to me that lead to a Gay Porno lad that had ‘himself’ replicated into a dildo

            and it looks like I forgot to say thank you

            Apologies, Thank You

          6. SOQ

            I have no idea what you are talking about nor care less. The only thing I remember is that you were outed as frilly and then denied it. None of which is relevant to this thread of course so- why bring it up?

            I never posted gay or any other sort of porn on this site. I posted a link to a club where they were dancing nude in response to someone who was saying that clubs were not mad like they used to be- but they are, if not more so.

          1. Rob_G

            The countries with the highest rates of recorded deaths (Ireland, Belgium) tend to be the countries where they record nursing home deaths, and deaths where COVID is only suspected, rather than confirmed, to be a factor.

      2. delacaravanio

        We don’t share a border or culture with Sweden.

        There wasn’t a load of Swedes at Cheltenham.

  3. Jonsmoke

    Why are you spreading this wrong information Broadsheet? I know you need to get your site traffic numbers up but highlighting this type of thing is as dangerous as Trump suggesting that drinking a bit of bleach will kill the virus.

    1. edrof

      Exactly this, Broadsheet is far from anything close to complacent in this. They are constantly heavily hinting that the reaction to Coid-19 is excessive and unnecessary. Tell that to the millions of us doing the right thing, who miss our children’s grandparents, who are doing what we can to keep them safe, who have daily heart breaking discussions with our very young children about why they can’t see their grandparents or why they can’t hug them.

      No no, broadsheet knows best. It’s all a scam…somehow for the furtherment of something something. No wrose than a flu … sorry but this is horsepoo and look at the deaths and the sheer number of people dying daily in the UK,

      Stop spreading your horsespoo Bodger, And stop promoting the stupidity of the people in the flats flouting the public gatherings rule.

      1. Orla

        Broadsheet are telling that to millions doing the right think because people care about your future and that of your kids, when a police state is enacted by a an individual like Leo without the consultation of the people you should question everything. It’s vitally important to critically think at this point and question everything.

        Look at the hypocrisy of the governments behavior as an example, selective shut downs ,late late show host infected but still has guests,keelings saga with political connections ,delayed shut down /quarantine in general, still planes allowed into the country, the Gardai with no masks or gloves stopping people, the gardai with serious problems as an institution,see Maurice Macabe as one incident of many,they currently cannot be given this power, couldn’t care less for the elderly who are susceptible to these viruses every year,the years before cornavirus nobody cared for them en mass, now we have celebrities from the pop cult saying we should care and look what happens, what’s even more demented are those saying it wasn’t this bad in previous years ,sure only a few hundred died of flu last year, I guess it just wasn’t “popular” back in those days.

        Months later when the virus is out they decide a massive shut down is necessary along with the biggest bank bailouts in history,#we’re all in this together #because our tax will be needed to pay big banker bonuses and ensure our “frontline political class” don’t have to take pay cuts, #playing a blinder or just blinding people?

        We now have lads that play with computer models ,algorithms a human wrote which is inherent bias when it comes to the complexity of nature deciding our future,I didn’t elect tony holohan and don’t intent to trust him an not question because he is “a very well spoken man”.

          1. GiggidyGoo

            Just because they are not pro-Varadkar, eh Cian? Very valid points, and legislation signed by Harris, who hasn’t read or understood it. (You know, a Health Minister that makes up the number of Covid viruses, and then passes it off all boyish as a ‘boo boo’

        1. edrof

          I’ll ignore the rest of the conspiracy theorist nonsense about police states and address your last paragraph

          Are you implying the deaths in Italy, Spain and the UK are something which should not concern us? That we should go on as normal as that won’t result in make shift morgues stacking bodies?

          Tony Hollohan does not decide the actions taken, he is involved in heeding the advice which is received based on the picture in countries weeks ahead of us. If you are so sure there is nothing to worry about Orla, I would suggest you get out and join some form of front line, patient facing volunteer position, and then go home to your elderly parents

          Sure there’s nothing to worry about.

    2. Finnster

      What is wrong about this information? Are these lovely men not practicing medical doctors dealing with the actual situation on the ground, as opposed to theorists (Fauci) making stuff up?

      1. SOQ

        Nothing wrong with it at all- the main points they are making is that this thing has already spread wide so the actual percentage fatality rate is around the same as flu- therefore, the lock down measures are disproportionate and should be removed.

        Many others are saying the exact same thing.

        1. Cian

          Explain Italy then. If this has a percentage fatality rate around the same as flu – why were ICUs overwhelmed? Why were the army moving bodies out in the thousands?

          1. SOQ

            Italy’s ICUs were never over whelmed, only in the Lombardy region which has an over average elderly population and also- high levels of air pollution.

          2. Ghost of Yep

            A very old population? Severity of it wasn’t really acknowledged at the time Italy was trying to handle it?

            I’m not getting involved in this thread or discussion but just to highlight the endless amount of variables and information that should really solidify the idea that everyone is talking through their behind at this stage.

          3. SOQ

            Why are you answering to something still in moderation by my records therefore not displayed on this site?

            7:49 27.04.2020

    3. Rob_G

      Bodger is a true believer, Jonsmoke; I am struggling to think of any popular conspiracy theory of the past five years that Bodger has not bought into at some level.

        1. Nigel

          Yeah, Trump’s Russian connections are completely made up but Hilary was and is and will be arrested all at the same time.

        2. Commenter #1

          Rare enough we get confirmation of an editorial line from Broadsheet about anything; good to know!

        3. V

          Shur’ who gives a mucky duck at this stage about RussiaGate

          Trump won and is now getting on with it
          Make of that effort what ye like

          And in fairness we, well me anyway, were saved from having to eat crow, feathers n’all,
          by dumping Hillary and leaving her with nothing but a book to promote
          And a lasting legacy that she was beaten by Donald Trump
          Just what she deserves imo

  4. gallantman

    I watched this yesterday. While some of it may be on point it should be noted that these guys as well as being doctors are the owners of 7 private medical clinics so they have a serious financial stake in ending the current situation.

    Also watch the last two minutes of part 2 of the interview. Dr Erickson thinks the cameras are off and goes into a a psuedo Alex Jones style rant about compliance/control and people stock piling ammo and guns…..quite instructive.

  5. Toe Up

    I haven’t watched the videos, so I am wondering if these doctors (or Bodger, or anyone else who believes that Covid-19 isn’t as severe as it is being made out / is comparable to a regular strain of flu) have posited any theories as to why governments are acting in such an extreme way to combat the virus? What are their motivations for crippling their economies, especially industries such as oil that governments are accused of being traditionally beholden to, and risking social unrest, if it is not to reduce sickness and death and to limit the impact on their health care systems and workers.

    The only theory I have seen up to now is that it is a global conspiracy to try to ensure that Trump doesn’t get elected for a second term. That is a theory that I have seen coming from the Q-Anon crowd that Bodger has supported in the past. Are there any other theories out there that I have missed?

      1. Orla

        The problem with bill gates is his links to child sex trafficker jeffrey Epstein who both just happen to have a fascination with population control and the existence of superior DNA and the like.

        You don’t have to be part of the Gemma o Doherty brigade to have reservations about listening to advice on vaccines for your kids from gates when he has relations with a child sex trafficker after Epstein was convicted no less,if this isn’t disconcerting for you or hint at a conflict of interest by all means worship at his alter.
        The reality is some vaccines work some don’t and have severe side effects, the HSE had to pay out millions last year to young girl who mysteriously came down with narcolepsy after a swine flu vaccine,this was published on RTÉ.

        1. dav

          “The reality is some vaccines work some don’t and have severe side effects, the HSE had to pay out millions last year to young girl who mysteriously came down with narcolepsy after a swine flu vaccine,this was published on RTÉ”
          that is not reality, that is your ill-informed ranting..

          1. Orla

            Dav see Cian’s link.

            I’m on your side Dav, I’m just trying to help where I can with getting back to critical thinking, the medical establishment worldwide has serious issues, so does the scientific establishment and pier review system, nobody denies the good that can come out from said institutions but they have severe issues and should be questioned.
            I don’t want a world where people believe we can cure cancer with crystals and chakra bells, this is not what I imply,of course this is the dialectic we get drawn into when you criticize the current establishment for their mistakes, it’s left or right, good or evil.

            Nor do I want a world where bill gates who is friends with a child sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein telling what’s best for my kids health wise.

        2. Nigel

          Lots of people were associated with Epstein, many in scientific institutions who took his money. The most prominent outcomes were an exclusion of women at those institutions and an encouragement of edgelord techbros and sciencebros ignoring ethics and going down weird and skeevy avenues. It’s not likely to have any direct relevance to a Covid-19 vaccine unless you are actually postulating a nefarious agenda, as opposed to potential side-effects, which of course is a real issue of concern with any vaccine.

    1. Orla

      I doubt there is a straight forward narrative ,it would be many competing interests but some potentials could be-

      Bill Gates is intimately connected to a child sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein along with many of our beloved “elites”, you don’t have to go into qanon or Alex Jones to look at the facts around these issues.

      The financial system has not recovered from 2008 ,before coronavirus outbreaks last September the fed bailout began using different language of course, we now have the greatest bank bailout in history ,when you include other industries and the token amount to the general public it’s just record breaking all round.

      Constitutions have been undermined with the new police state we live in ,when we need more Europe or more anything in the name of financial salvation we may not have need for referendums ,with Leo’s new police state we can just say yes cause Leo’s great.
      We need to be vigilant with regards to this,thinking they will remove this police state legislation is silly,the language they are using of incoming doom of a new deadly viruse will be the reason we need to keep until it’s used for something more nefarious, the constitution is basically saying all humans are mad and we can’t be trusted to rule each other with absolute power so let’s agree to some common interests,Leo’s dream of an Indian style caste like system isn’t a very common interest on these shores.

      It’s not a simple Hegelian dialectic and labeling everyone qanon or trump supporter is for the journals comment section.

      1. Cian

        Leo’s dream of an Indian style caste like system

        What the actual F—?

        Are you a racist now Orla?

          1. V-19

            I wonder who Orla is going to be dressed up as today
            I’m thinking a fella’s name Bill, Ben, Dan, Sam, Ken – Have they given them ones a run out

  6. Joe Small

    Widdle poor from Broadsheet spreading disinformation at a critical juncture. Some people are just looking for excuses to break the rules, do what they want and ignore social distancing. Broadsheet is enabling this behaviour. With freedom comes responsibility. This is irresponsible.

    1. Finnster

      The ‘rules’ are disproportionate. All contributing to the ‘Architecture of Oppression’, as Edward Snowden has pointed out.

  7. sidhe

    Just some ‘alternate facts’ for us, broadsheet? Well, gee, thanks guys! In fact I might just go gargle some bleach now too.

  8. SOQ

    I have been saying for weeks that predictive modelling was going to be taken with a pinch of salt after all this. At the very least those who design them will be challenged a lot more about both the data sets, assumptions and the structure of the models.

    Interesting point about a big rise in other illness once the quarantine is over because people’s immune systems will be weaker and that health care providers will need to be prepared.

    1. Mart Cattle

      What other assumptions could have been put into the model? Do you realise there is no precedent for this?

      1. SOQ

        Of course there is a precedent for this- every year- its called the flu. Other assumptions should have included the likes of the capacity for the health service to expand- which it did. Ireland like UK and most other European countries had plenty of time to ramp up.

        I see Neil Ferguson from Imperial is now predicting 100k deaths if lock down is lifted- well people are going back to work in Britain so lets see if he right. If he is then it will be a first of course- but I very much doubt it.

  9. Formerly known as

    They are welcome to help out in NY, if they reckon there is nothing to worry about.

  10. Rapscallion

    GRIM … FT: “Global coronavirus death toll could be 60% higher than reported,” by John Burn-Murdoch, Valentina Romei and Chris Giles in London: “The death toll from coronavirus may be almost 60 percent higher than reported in official counts, according to an FT analysis of overall fatalities during the pandemic in 14 countries.

    “Mortality statistics show 122,000 deaths in excess of normal levels across these locations, considerably higher than the 77,000 official Covid-19 deaths reported for the same places and time periods. If the same level of under-reporting observed in these countries was happening worldwide, the global Covid-19 death toll would rise from the current official total of 201,000 to as high as 318,000.”

    ‘Could be’ source:

    1. Orla

      When the fog of hysteria dies down these statistics can made clearer,this is the main statistic I would like to see, how many deaths in these periods overall, for example road deaths should be down however flu deaths,pneumonia and COPD and the like shouldn’t be drastically different.

      As the article alludes to people may have survived if they had gone to the hospital but because of the hysteria they didn’t go to the ER for treatment ,people are probably tying to sit out a heart attack at home for fear of getting infected with coronavirus if they go the hospital .

      What will also have to be factored in is suicides other stress related deaths from loss of businesses and jobs.

      1. A Person

        Oral, I suspect your are another trot in disguise on here – the previous one also could not distinguish that a comma goes before the space, not after. You also got way with mentioning Gemma without being edited. Can you please provide credible evidence that all the health experts and front line workers in this country are wrong? Bodger is this click bait or have your standards dipped this low.

        1. Orla

          Nice, a reactionary strawman along with vagueness in your comprehension of what my angle is ,where have I explicitly stated that every healthcare expert in the country is wrong?
          And wrong in relation to what ? Future potential outcomes? Do we need to discuss what “tyranny of experts means”?
          Where were the healthcare experts when our hospitals were overloaded the last few years? Where were they when we had a few hundred dying of flu in previous years?
          Frontline workers like nurses deserved respect long before covid19,when they were out protesting did the healthcare experts above them really care?

          Interestingly though, was every healthcare expert in the country right on the swine flu vaccine, ask Aoife Bennett who now has narcolepsy for the rest of her life, is Aoife just collateral damage in this instance? But covid 19 victims are not collateral damage this time round because famous rich people now support this,maybe if aoife had gotten brad Pitt,Angelina Jolie or Bill gates to tweet support for her she wouldn’t have had to be dragged through courts for years by the HSE.

          Will I give more examples of the majority of healthcare experts being wrong throughout history, shall I make cliche hitler analogies on top of that like how a mass of Germans got it wrong?

          I don’t see why I have to have my personal details available for you to gauge who I am, are you looking for authoritative gestapo like badges ? Your sniffing out of my grammar mistakes highlights you as a grammar authority, as we have seen throughout this covid saga authority doesn’t like questions, prefer a good strawman?

          Say I am a troll in disguise ,does this discredit the words on the screen making a point? I’m trying to question and I have every right to do so, trying to shut it down is similar to the delusional hubris we are dealing with said experts.

  11. SOQ

    Just an observation here. This was posted by Nick Kelly at 11:06. The interview is 51 mins long. Even if you started watching the minute it was posted, it would not end until 11:57.

    Some commentators appear to mastered the art of time travel so- either that or they couldn’t be bothered watching the thing before criticising. Not one of you has even mentioned their stats let alone challenged them.

    1. Finnster

      I for one watched this yesterday – it’s a couple of days old. I did wonder why it didn’t get more attention.

      1. Commenter #1

        I think you’ll find that the governments of northern Italy were all in the pocket of Big Coffin and Obituary.

        1. Commenter #1

          “To calculate excess deaths, the FT has compared deaths from all causes in the weeks of a location’s outbreak in March and April 2020 to the average for the same period between 2015 and 2019. The total of 122,000 amounts to a 50 per cent rise in overall mortality relative to the historical average for the locations studied.”

          Just a bad ‘flu, that has resulted in a 50% rise in overall mortality.

          1. SOQ

            Ok I have my own ideas but I shall ask for yours instead- why do you think that % wise more people die in some places than others?

          2. Orla

            These are better stats to be looking at for the entire picture.
            The problem is though we would have to establish how many excess deaths were preventable if people were not discouraged from visiting the hospital/GP surgery , as I mentioned earlier some are sitting out heart attacks at home.
            Many had appointments due for serious illness canceled,scans missed etc.
            Those numbers are not currently astronomically different to what would happen if covid 19 wasn’t here but the hospitals/GP surgery had another issue preventing people from visiting them.

          3. Commenter #1

            no idea SOQ; all i know is that 50% more people are dead than is usual in some places. at the same time, a hitherto unknown, highly transmissible and apparently very dangerous virus is working its way around the world. i think it’s reasonable to connect the two.

            but there are plenty who question how dangerous the virus itself is, and think the reason we have a 50% increase in mortality is because hospitals are quieter.

  12. Verbatim

    I imagine this will come as a shock that Trump never suggested “drinking a bit of bleach will kill the virus” – sorry to disappoint – why don’t you honestly look at the WHOLE interview it might open your mind a bit.
    It’s as simple as incompetent governments (men) over-reacted. When they saw what China was doing, rushed to do the same; look at the media response when Boris Johnson wanted to go down the herd immunity path, all hell broke loose. We’re all gonna have to have immunity eventually, it’ll be survival of the fittest! There’s no doubt, however, they are not going to let a crisis go to waste, that where the real danger lies…

    1. Mart Cattle

      I’d rather drink bleach than watch hours of that boo boo wittering on
      take a long hard look at yourself

    2. Nigel

      It won’t come as a shock because that was obviously an ironical paraphrase, everyone knows what he said, and everyone knows the man is a reckless moron in charge of the wealthiest most powerful nation in the planet, yay!

      And yes, the herd immunity path is a bloody corpse-mountain social-Darwinian nightmare waiting to happen if implemented absent a working vaccine.

    3. ReproBertie

      No, he suggested injecting disinfectant based on the previous speaker saying that common disinfectants available over the counter ill the virus on surfaces.

    1. scottser

      this thread can not be saved v.
      and that gobsheen couldn’t save a word document. to labour the goalkeeping analogy, ‘i’ve seen better hands in a hospital dustbin’.

  13. V-19

    A briefing note for everyone here
    as I’ve noticed a number of posters from the different clusters appear to be of the same view

    Dr Tony Holohan is employed by the Dept of Health (Chief Medical Officer)
    Not the HSE

  14. Broadbag

    Can we have an ignORLA button installed so sane people can block the likes of Orla and her fragments of quarter-baked conspiracy theories”?

  15. SOQ

    This video has been removed for violating YouTube’s terms of service. How in God’s name could a couple doctors voicing a professional opinion using statistics available for anyone to review be a violation of YouTube’s terms of service?

    1. Cian

      From their terms of condition:
      Removal of Content By YouTube
      If we reasonably believe that any Content is in breach of this Agreement or may cause harm to YouTube, our users, or third parties, we may remove or take down some or all of such Content.

      IANAL but this video may cause users to stop quarantining… which could lead them to get/spread COVID-19… which would harm users/third parties.

      The news video above shows a clip where the doctors say that staying at home will weaken your immune system. A quick google-search suggests this is false.

    2. SOQ

      Ah there we go- basically anything which questions the WHO guidelines on CoVid-19 is banned.

      It is only a matter of time before they go after the likes of Cameron Kyle-Sidell too so.

      So a quick google from you worth more than a two doctors with over twenty years’ experience each in epidemiology and immunology? I am not saying they are right but I am not saying they are wrong either.

      Even in Europe, given the other lives it will cost, the jury is out as to if long-term lock down is the best strategy. In the US, opinion varies from state to state which is why some are back open again.

      My point is that there is no universal consensus on this issue, even from public health officials.

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