Over the weekend.
Two of Ireland’s most celebrated journalists Gene Kerrigan and Vincent Browne urge the wearing of masks be it out of fear, in Mr Kerrigan’s case, or the possibility that it might help eliminate the rona ‘almost completely’, according to Mr Browne.
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Two eminent doctors and virologists.
like ivor cummins?
I haven’t really looked at Ivor Cummins – but I did a quick look up of him just now. Seemingly he has 60,000 subscribers on YouTube, and over 5 million views. Additionally, it looks like he writes or says, and has researched more, than the two media hacks.
I haven’t researched him myself so I don’t know and don’t base my views of what he writes / says.
Head of of the US CDC is not eminent?
https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/29/media-gunning-for-scott-atlas-because-he-keeps-exposing-coronavirus-lies/
Redfield’s credibility is increasingly being put under the spotlight since the arrival of Scott Atlas (Fauci’s replacement). For example, when Redfield claimed at a recent Senate hearing that “90% of Americans remain susceptible to the virus”, Atlas effectively called him a liar. I’m firmly in the Atlas camp as his opinions are informed by the work of top infectious disease experts such as John Ioannidis, Sunetra Gupta,Carl Heneghan, Martin Kulldorff, etc.
https://www.sott.net/article/434796-The-Science-is-Conclusive-Masks-and-Respirators-do-NOT-Prevent-Transmission-of-Viruses
It’s like trying deprogram people out of a religious cult. Very disappointed with Vincent Browne- he is usually quite well clued in.
its like a religious cult, you say…
It is faith based yes- not science.
Now I understand why people feel that way because of all the media scare mongering and that there is a certain placebo effect where people feel they may be protecting themselves (or others) but the plain fact is they don’t bloody work- even O’Neill has admitted to that.
If they did work then surely Sweden should be way ahead in the hospital figures by now don’t you think?
If the science is conclusive and Masks-and-Respirators-do-NOT-Prevent-Transmission-of-Viruses then
– do you think that health care workers shouldn’t bother with PPE?
– how do we “protect the vulnerable”?
PPE when applied properly is effective in the prevention of transmission yes but even those people need to be trained as how to put it on and wear it.
There is no comparison between that and the general public wearing a rag for a week made out of god knows what.
But SOQ – your link says that Masks-and-Respirators-do-NOT-Prevent-Transmission-of-Viruses; It is talking about certified PPE, not homemade stuff.
Either the link is wrong, or you are.
Which?
Depends on what you mean by work- are they 100% effective? Probably not but when applied properly (surgical mask and shield) they do reduce risk.
The main point of that page is about the general public wearing masks not the efficacy of surgical PPE and the science does not support it.
It does not mention cloth masks no but you can be pretty certain they are even less effective- especially as most have never even seen soap and water since the day they were bought.
@SOQ
That has loads of links about surgical masks and N95 respirators. Saying none of them work. e.g. “Among 2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons. … Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”
So if I were to believe this site, then masks don’t work – even when applied properly by trained professionals.
But they don’t? Not 100%- there is always a risk, the question is how much.
Anyways- Carl Heneghan – On Masks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNI2ocgosgA
Is Gene not being funny there ?
Also imagine being dumb enough to take medical advice from anyone on Twitter.
Or youtube.
Or Tony Holohan
Or Bodger and the BS Bord na Rona gang…
Hah; Bord Na Rona!
+1 :)
Excellent.
Broadsheet is now firmly known around my parish as a hotbed of 4Chan lite nonsense.
Used to be good, sad really.
V good :)
Bored Na Rona- you forgot the ‘e’.
I like it.
…brilliant Sir…hope it goes viral…
https://www.thejournal.ie/ursula-von-der-leyen-covid-19-5223726-Oct2020/
Von leyen has placed herself in isolation due to having been in a meeting last Tuesday with someone that tested positive for Corona Virus.
On her twitter, last Thursday, Dr von der Leyen wrote: ‘Good discussion with @MichealMartinTD on #NextGenerationEU & ongoing negotiations with UK.
Micheal Martin travelled to Brussels on Thursday to attend a two-day summit with other EU leaders, during which issues including EU relations with Turkey, ongoing political unrest in Belarus and Brexit negotiations will be discussed.
But sure, our boyos are immune to it and can travel all over the place, back and forth to Brussels and no need for isolation. etc.
If I am a close contact of a confirmed case, I have to restrict my movements and be tested. But people I have met or spent time with do not have to do anything unless I test positive. So lord knows what point you’re trying to make here?
Cast your mind back a week or two when the folks in the Dail restricted their movements due to the possibility of Donnelly having caught the virus.
Micheal Martin and Ursula met. The definition of a Close Contact should (at least) convey to him out of courtesy to the people he’s meeting or in contact with, that he should be at least restricting his movements, if not sefl-isolating until he gets a test.
Van Leyen is isolating.
Now, Micheal Martin was also in a country for two days which is not on the Green List. There is an onus on ordinary people to restrict their movements for 14 days coming from those.
So, is Martin immune then or what?
Donnelly had symptoms and they had contact with him so they isolated.
If Van Der Leyen has no symptoms but is isolating because she has contact with a confirmed case that is not the same and doesn’t mean Martin needs to isolate. You’re also speculating on timelines.
How far do you think you’re supposed to take it? Anyone who met Martin also isolates and anyone who met them? You have no point.
I was replying to Barry as he mentioned that nothing needs to be done unless someone tests positive. Donnelly tested negative.
And the travel between a non green country not on the green list and Ireland?
Is Martin immune in that scenario? How far does breaking the rules extend?
I saw a pleasant female Cork gp Dr o Connor in early evening news. She said the mistakes households are making is not immediately isolating en masse for 2 weeks if a contact/family member are suspected unconfirmed cases. It starts to reason Mr Martin should isolate if he met Ursela.
The “mask at all times” approach would require all pubs, restaurants, cafes etc. to be closed except for takeaway. Which is Level 5 I think?
Good idea, close them
We have mandatory masks when outside the home, here in Melbourne. It is part of our long running lockdown, which is like your level #5. It is an easy thing to do, that doesn’t cost jobs. Unfortunately, mask wearing has become a political issue, rather than just a health issue. Our borders are closed, so the lockdown will (should) result in zero cases and we can return to a close to normal life. While Ireland’s borders are open and arrivals aren’t forced to quarantine, things will not improve. It is a lot more difficult to close Ireland’s borders.
No- mask wearing is downright uncomfortable and most people do not like wearing them. And, there is zero evidence that they impact the spread of SARS-Cov-2 one way or the other- as evidenced by infection rates in countries before and after their introduction.
If masks are so effective then why is that in countries where they are the cultural norm, people still get the flu in the same numbers as others?
If you find mask wearing downright uncomfortable you should try different masks. I recently got some new masks and they are much nicer.
+1
I made some masks out of some old cotton bandanas over the summer and they are much more comfortable than the disposable or shop-bought face coverings. They’re much more breathable, and I say this as an asthmatic.
Do you wear glasses?
Still trying to find a decent re-usable/washable one that doesn’t fog the glasses.
So far the disposable ones with wire that can be shaped are the best
I do. It’s the biggest problem I have with masks.
Make sure the mask is flush against the bridge of your nose, high up by your eyes and that the bridge of your glasses rests below that point, as snugly as possible. I’ve found that is the best method for avoiding foggy glasses but it’s hit and miss at the best of times.
I’ve resigned myself to contact lenses for now.
I got them here: http://www.dani.ie
The ones I got have a wire under the nose.
My daughter (in secondary school) wears the mask constantly and as she’s long-sighted, she needs glasses for all board work, etc.She swears by “KlarPilot anti-fogging spray”. She got it in a local pharmacy. It’s a bit expensive, cost was around €10 for a small 15ml bottle, but works wonders with the mask, I’m told.
Cheers Mick. I’ll check that out
+1
I forgot mine going to Lidl one day just after they became mandatory, so I bought a pack of two there. Damn thing almost asphyxiated me.
There is indeed evidence. It’d be great if you cited a peer reviewed papers to back up your claims for once.
As above george- plenty of them.
I’ve never worn a mask.
It makes me anxious and feel terrible.
On a very few occasions I’ve been asked where’s my mask going into shops etc. On those occasions I just smile and very nicely say “I’m exempt.”
Every single time is then followed by an apology from the staff member for asking me, and then we have a little quick chat about how ridiculous the whole thing is and how terrible he feels having to ask people.
Nobody wants this rubbish and the member off staff just wants to tick that box that they’ve asked you.
“every single time” the shopkeeper proceeds to confess that he finds the whole thing ridiculous?
It’s only happened 3 times in fairness BB.
And it’s always been a bloke on the door.
Out of the loadsa times i’ve been in shops over the last two months, I’ve never been an issue – apart from those few times.
@Micko
You;re doing it wrong then. You are supposed to shout “I have a medical certificate that exempts me but I’m not going to show you” angrily.
None of this being nice. Where would that get us if we all went around being nice.
@Micko –
I’ll be thinking of you while I undergo my rehab this evening after an op recently. One I wore a mask for the whole time. While receiving oxygen.
3 times a week I have to go to a physiotherapist and now it looks like that will have to cancelled. Its strenuous stuff and can be leave wiped and out of breath but the mask stays on the whole time.
You still haven’t said why you are exempt beyond not wanting to wear one?
Hey, if you do want to think of me while you;re in rehab – whatever gets you through is Ian-oh
P.S I don’t care
Jesus, Micko, you are incredibly selfish. You won’t just wear a mask for the few minutes you’re in a shop because it makes you feel anxious? So you’re ok with someone losing their life on your behalf, because you’re a bit iffy wearing a mask for a few minutes? This tells me you’re incredibly weak and selfish. also, “how ridiculous the whole thing”? The entire world shit down to try contain it. But you think the entire world is being “ridiculous”? I’m gobsmacked and how slefish and dim you are.
Dr Fart
Selfish? 100% yes. Dim – afraid not pal.
You see, I very much love and care about the people I know and meet.
Even strangers that I meet would always get help and kindness from me
But I am not responsible for them or their health. I am only responsible for my family.
I also, unlike you, I guess – DO NOT care about people I do not know. Get it?
For me to expand my “emotional care bubble” that far and care about everyone
would be draining, futile and insincere.
According to people like you, you care about people you don’t know, you care about the starving people around the world. It’s lies and I’m sick of your rubbish.
You don’t care enough to not have a smartphone, even though they cause tons of deaths of children worldwide who have to mine for cobalt in the Congo. But yeah – you all care – at least you pretend to ;-)
Me, I’m honest. I don’t care. You and people like you are hypocrites.
yea Micko, that whole comment really confirms that you are dim. Leaving aside all the complete lack of empathy to the extent of not caring if actual people die just so you can gome around a shop with your mouth out like a prat. you are dim. here’s why; you say you only care about the people you know.. well if you fupp about in shops with no mask and in general aren’t safe then you can catch covid, and then you spread it to those people you perturb to care about..
@Dr Fart
That’s cool. I’ll take my chances.
Also, please continue to care about everyone around you and globally of course – well as long as they are in the same geographical location / skin colour / race as you.
You’re the human equivalent of ‘thoughts and prayers’ ;-p
your logic of “either care about everyone or care about no one” is beyond idiocy. My earlier diagnosis stands firmly in place; You are selfish and dim.
“your logic of…” “diagnosis”
I see your taking the ‘Dr Fart’ sobriquet a bit too seriously.
… stay safe
I am a Doctor and my surname is Dutch. using the word “logic” isn’t a uniquely doctor thing to say either. Anyway, I will stay safe, I can only hope you dodge the virus by chance, as you would certainly spread it around if you got it and probably be responsible for killing people. You might not be so aloof to that fact if you had to look at their faces in ICU.
@Micko
Which is it?
”PS I don’t care either.”
Or
”It makes me anxious and feel terrible’.
I can see how anxious its making you, little bit of tantrum there in reply to Dr. Fart. Hilarious, if you were 5 years old.
Stay Classy Micko.
Ha ha. Mind games now
Enjoy rehab pal. Think of me fondly
x
Probably no more rehab now.
But you don’t care, its all about your little bubble.
Hopefully you won’t be infected by someone else who doesn’t care either. But hey, who am I kidding, everyone is as selfish and immature as you!
Exactly – now you get it!
Glad we finally understand each other Ian-oh.
And, if I am infected by someone else, it won’t be their fault either.
People are not responsible for the viruses they carry – you bloody loon! ;-)
i’m actually gobsmacked what an idiot you are, michael. people ARE responsible for the virus they carry. Otherwise it engulfs the place like in the US etc. You have nothing to gain by being careless. It’s not like you have to weigh up the pros and cons. Its as simple as this;
options for dim mick;
1. follow easy and simple guidelines that don’t inhibit you at all and children up and down the country can even follow them and less people (including people you love) die
2. ignore the simple guidelines for no gain or reward with your life in no way being enhanced by this action, but more people (including people you love) die
and big dumb mick hammers the number 2 option and thinks he’s a rebel
I do indeed get it.
You’re immature, selfish and clearly not too bright. Shame there isn’t an ignore function on here.
I don’t need to be reading this sort of idiocy:
”People are not responsible for the viruses they carry – you bloody loon! ;-) ”
So someone who has HIV and go around knowingly spreading it is not responsible?
Go home and stay there.
I love when people call me ‘michael’ – especially without the capital M
It always puts me in my place.
Thank you Dr Fart. Thank YOU for beating me over the head on a public forum like this.
I now see that you are such a better person than me and I vow to change my ways.
You virtue signalling mad yoke!
You two guys are hilarious.
You’re like cult members parroting the ‘rhetoric’ from on high, but lacking the
eloquence or articulation to properly convey its message.
Tell me gents, were you both wearing masks indoors since the start of the pandemic, or did you just start when the government told you to?
I can guess. Either answer tells me everything I need to know about you.
Good luck… and once again
…stay safe ;-p
michael, i want to meet you in person. are you willing to do this?
So long as I stay away from people like you Mick I will be safe.
I know in your mind its one side or the other, but I pay next to no mind to whatever brain fart the government or the HSE is saying from one day to the next. I wear my mask properly, I social distance, keep sanitizer to hand at all times and wash my hands every chance I get. I have a few re-usable masks that are washed at 90 degrees and marked so I wear them once then wash them. I also keep a pack of disposable ones in the car at all times if needed or to give to someone who might need it.
That is my contribution. Yours, it would appear is to gab at someone hapless shot assistant about how terrible it all is. Well done you.
But look, you managed to get in ‘virtue signalling’ and ‘cult members’ so you clearly not to be trifled with!
@Dr Fart
We can meet. But only if we shake hands.
Do you dare?
So someone who has HIV and go around knowingly spreading it is not responsible?
Back that one up butch- when I forge a deep meaningless relationship after disco dancing I assume they are positive, and I behave accordingly. I take responsibly for my own health because the other may not know.
Knowingly spreading HIV is illegal and should be prosecuted. That is NOT the same thing as disagreeing with an unscientific rule that children must wear masks.
I will settle with a few decades of the rosary now.
michael, that was actually quite funny.
For some people “Wash your hands, wear a mask, keep your distance” is too much for them to take on because it impinges on “muh freedumbs”, so they remain selfish snowflakes who are responsible for the country being on the verge of lockdown again.
Have you rEaSEaRChed Holohan yet with your, ahem, medical experts?
I’m watching a youtube video right now.
lol
Ewetube by all accounts.
That only had videos about donkeys so I didn’t spend too long falling down that loony poophole. I had a productive afternoon watching cat videos. It’s what the internet was invented for.
Naw, EweTube is all about sheep. Here you go http://www.ewetube.com.au/
Thanks but you can keep your fetish sites to yourself.
But you make many appearances there?
Damn! My stuff’s been nicked from pr0nhub!
That Dunphy account is a parody.
Thanks, Colly. Fixed now.
theyre right. walk through any part of dublin at any time of day and you’ll see multiple counts of breaching public health guidelines. if we all did the measures we’d be fine. but very few are. impossible when a good 30% of the population are blindingly ignorant and self-absorbed.
Jesus dude
https://app.grammarly.com/
It’s free FFS. Everyone makes mistakes – but come on!!!
Fair comment Dr.
At the beginning of this, people were quite prepared to do what was deemed necessary by the medical people.
However, there was an immediate ‘but it won’t apply to flights (italy?) or Cheltenham’ and an immature health minister. Even ‘ordinary’ folk knew that St. Patrick’s Day parades should be cancelled, and did so, and the government had to follow.
If you wanted to do the experiment of complete lockdown, then that is exactly what it should be – complete. No flights, no passengers on ferries, no Brussels summits.
Even at that though, the country would have to re-open, and the Virus would get back in.
So we would be back to the beginning. Herd immunity looks like being the solution – at least for the next generation. If you keep say, 50-60 year olds away from this virus now, those will be the older generation in a few years. If there is no immunity built up, then you’re back to square one. Those people will be in their 60-70’s and then be the ‘at risk’ group. And so it’d go on.
Look at it this way – if the older generation are happy to be locked down now, then maybe they should lock down anyway, and the younger ones go out and get infected?
Unfortunately, the herd immunity idea doesn’t work if the antibodies don’t stay long term, or if the virus mutates to something different.
T cells?
Do try to keep up dear.