183 thoughts on “Saturday’s Papers

  1. Kim The Cardassian

    “Here Maureen, do you remember where you where when they announced the lockdown?”

    “Which one Brídie?”

    1. SOQ

      Dr. Hans Kluge, WHO’s regional director for Europe, said Thursday.

      “It is never too late (to tighten measures) but of course, definitely, we are concerned. In general, this is the time to step up the restrictive measures … with lockdowns as a very, very last resort. We know much better than in March what can, and needs, to be done.”

      “Does it mean we are back to mid-March? No, we are not. Although we record two to three-times more cases per day compared to the April peak, we still observe five times less deaths, and a doubling time in hospital admissions still two-to-three times longer (than in March).”

      https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/15/lockdowns-should-be-last-resort-whos-europe-chief-says.html

      1. Kim The Cardassian

        I don’t know SOQ, I think asking “where you were when they announced lockdown?” is far catchier than “where were you when Dr. Hans Kluge WHO’s regional director for Europe said something about lockdowns and restrictions?”

        1. MME

          ROFL @Kim. Not the reply SOQ wanted. He is on the hard sell today “promoting” his favourite Covid sceptics. Expect a lot of links to YouTube and elsewhere as well as the liberal use of superlatives before his chosen personages. I ain’t buying but sweet Jesus that won’t stop SOQ and his side kick E’Matty selling!

          1. SOQ

            Sneer away but the advice NPHET are giving government is now completely at odds with WHO’s position.

            “In general, this is the time to step up the restrictive measures … with lockdowns as a very, very last resort.”

            Locking the country down for months- and it will be months- at this point- is not a very, very last resort.

          2. MME

            I’m not sneering SOQ but rather agog at your commitment. I don’t think anyone (I mean governments, experts, journos, economists) has a 100% solution to this pandemic that will see themselves totally vindicated. I just wonder if sometimes you don’t have something better to be doing?! Go for a walk, listen to a podcast, phone a friend…

            I do hate to break it to you but nobody really cares about your or indeed my opinion. Literally NOBODY.

          3. GiggidyGoo

            Actually, NME only part of your statement is true. The part where nobody cares about your opinion – because you haven’t got one.

        2. MME

          Sadly @Giggidygoo, the implication that your or SOQ’s opinion matters in the online cacophony that is social media, is delusional. If you think your opinion is better than anyone else’s or worse, somehow worthwhile, you are wasting your time.

          Nobody cares. Nobody.

          1. SOQ

            sss Strange that you feel this site has no significance and yet you keep coming back to tell us so.

            Fix the hospitals- treat the sick- let us work- economic destruction is NOT a health policy.

          2. MME

            I have posted 4 times today. How many times have you posted SOQ – how many times every day?!

            Easy to trot out what you think is wrong and posit quick solutions – you’ll never have to make these difficult decisions or craft the architecture of a response. Inevitably, the government and NPHET will get some things right, some things wrong – even badly so but nobody really has all the answers no matter how convincing they sound or grandiose their “declarations”.

    2. SOQ

      The petition for ‘The Late Late show to invite Ivor Cummins on to explain ‘the Science, Logic & Data video’ has of now on the 10:00 on 17/10/2020 just over 3100 signatures and growing.

      The question is- how many will it take before RTÉ concede that there are alternative viewpoints on the subject of lockdowns?

      https://www.change.org/p/the-people-of-ireland-late-late-late-show-to-invite-ivor-cummins-on-as-guest

      The presentation has racked up just under 1.6 million views and continues to be shared.

      It is quite extraordinary that people like Gerry Killeen can- without challenge- make predictions of 20 to 30 thousands fatalities based on what has been proven to be flawed modelling, out by a factor of 10 to 12- and yet someone working with the real data needs a petition to even get interviewed.

      1. Cian

        Ha ha. Ivor is a snake-oil salesman.

        He very carefully chooses which data to display and which to ignore. Example: while he has finally acknowledged the growing number of people in hospital he chose to present it as daily admissions alongside daily discharges. (20 minutes into “Ireland and Europe’s Viral Outlook – what does the Latest Data say?”)

        A Covid admission is a person with a positive Covid test before they are admitted. If someone symptomatic and have been tested, but the results aren’t back – they aren’t counted as a Covid admission.
        A Covid discharge is a person with a positive Covid test before they are discharged. This includes all the Covid admissions + anyone that was admitted without a test (be they symptomatic or asymptomatic) + anyone that caught Covid in hospital and get a positive test.

        By presenting these two numbers are equivalent is plain wrong – they are apples and oranges. Ivor is either ignorant of the differences or is willfully ignoring the differences to deceive people.

        Which is Ivor Cummins? Ignorant or willfully deceptive?

        1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

          Thanks, Cian. I think there is a reasonable chance that teams of epidemiologists and data scientists working with them, know more about the virus than a project engineer.

          1. millie

            But not more than the esteemed board of medical and scientific experts assembled here in the bs comments section, of course.

          2. SOQ

            I am not saying Ivor is 100% correct mille- but don’t you find it odd how there is complete uniformity in the MSM- not one single dissenting voice on what is the most important topic of our life times?

          3. millie

            I’m not getting into this with you. There are any number of armchair experts to debate with you, and I’m not one of them.

            My comment was a tongue-in-cheek jab at how everyone is suddenly an expert here in virology, epidemiology, immunology, microbiology, data analysis, and vaccines.

          4. millie

            Upon a reread, I’m concerned that the tone of my comment comes across as ‘having a go’ at you queenie, which I’m not. I just won’t be drawn into online debates about covid anymore. I don’t have the time or energy, or even the interest in the debate anymore, and I’m no expert.

          5. SOQ

            Yup fair point mille and I have always considered you to be a respectful poster so no offence taken. Unfortunately I have a brain which will keep spinning when something doesn’t make sense- which is a good thing for work but can melt other people’s head too.

            On the subject at hand I really do get what Ivor is about- I have done a bit in data analytics myself and spent many years working with engineers- albeit civil instead of biochemical- but the mindset is the same.

            Best to you and mili millie of course.

          6. Eoin

            …and lets just ignore the top brass who brought us the Great Barrington declaration and the World Health Organisation. You see? Anyone can cherry pick their data it seems.

        2. SOQ

          A Covid admission is a person with a positive Covid test before they are admitted. If someone symptomatic and have been tested, but the results aren’t back – they aren’t counted as a Covid admission.

          By admission do you mean into a hospital? Is that rule somewhere online?

          By presenting these two numbers are equivalent is plain wrong

          So why is the government site listing them as Admissions to Hospital and Discharges from Hospital right beside each other?

          https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/hospitals-icu–testing

          Interesting you have no opinion on Gerry Killeen’s claims of 20 to 30 thousands fatalities mind- now that really is Mystic Meg stuff.

          1. Cian

            Yes, the HSE is presenting all these figures. Both admission and discharges are (I assume) accurate… but not comparable. Why present both? I don’t know – ask the HSE. If I look at it now I see:

            Confirmed Cases in Hospital yesterday 244:
            Confirmed Cases in Hospital today: 260 (16 additional cases from yesterday)
            Discharges: 18
            Admissions: 19 (1 additional case…but there are 16 more covid cases in Ireland???)

            Ivor is sayng – hey look only 1 more case; the reality is there are 16 more cases.

            Ivor Cummins is either Ignorant or being willfully deceptive. Which you think it is?

          2. Cian

            You are changing the topic, so I’m answering separately.
            I have no opinion on Gerry Killeen. I don’t know where he got those numbers – they seem ridiculously high.

          3. SOQ

            Core question- is the number of people in hospital going up or down? And to answer he is totalling up the number of people in hospital at any given time –the nett figure- which IMO is correct and is how the government site above lists them.

            I am still not sure what you mean about previous CoVid tests and non-tested- have you got a link to that? hse.ie is it?

            My original post included the statement from Gerry Killeen which Ivor right criticised. If these are the sorts of figures that Government are forming public policy from- then God help us all.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPmWYFlUK54

          4. Micko

            Ah yeah come on lads.

            Whatever you think of any of this, Gerry Killeen on national TV talking about 20-30 thousand dead and freezer trucks full of dead and MASS GRAVES!

            “Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!” – Dr Peter Venkmann

    1. Charger Salmons

      Would this be like a snakey heh,heh,heh laugh while he’s stroking a white cat and raising an arched eybrow or a big ho,ho,ho belly laugh while holding his sides surrounded by goons in his giant underground lair with a map of the world on a big screen and pointy missiles positioned across the Urals ?

      Asking for Dr Strangelove.

  2. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    Britain is going well. That is what happens when you elect a clown to be PM.

  3. Clampers Outside

    ****NEWS****

    The Court of Session granted permission today for Judicial Review to proceed against Scottish Ministers for redefining “Woman” (to include men) and a substantive hearing has been assigned for 7th January 2021.

    Please support our crowdfunder and retweet!
    https://t.co/aoeZ5KiYDo

    Well done all involved for getting this far, and good luck!

      1. Clampers Outside

        You’ve argued for the belief in innumerable genders. You’ve argued that there are more than two sexes.
        But for some reason you are all in on there being only male and female spaces, and putting trans individuals into those sex based spaces rather than additional spaces.
        Its as if you change your position depending on what you argue for.
        Do you even realise the hypocrisy and ridiculousness of your arguments at all….. and then you throw around “transphobe” when you’ve no argument left.

        Sad.

          1. Nigel

            Clamps disagrees. Clamps would never hold such hateful views. Clamps just thinks they should be restricted legally, medically, socially and scientifically, and if they object then they are radical trans rights activists and out to groom children into a weird, self-destructive sex-cult by gaslighting them into horrific medical and psychological extremes in a futile attempt to overcome their own immutable biology, and that would be bad.

          2. Clampers Outside

            Somebody is peed off. Did diddums’ arguments get stuffed, and now a tantrum…. Awwww.

            Spanner.

          3. Clampers Outside

            Speaking of past chats Nigel. You don’t honestly think you made any arguments today, do you? You haven’t.
            You’ve made none here today, just spiteful accusations.

          4. Nigel

            Easy to ‘stuff’ arguments when you’re doing the arguing on both sides yourself.

            I did make a few today, but I’d be more surprised if you recognised them, let alone responded.

          1. Clampers Outside

            Nah, you’ve argued those positions in the past…. Numerous genders; that sex is not binary, that it exists on a spectrum; and despicably used intersex condition to argue same.
            Nothing made up, all you.

          2. Nigel

            Is it like that time I called you a Nazi and the other time I doxxed you or the other time I said I supported antifa violence? Because you’ve accused me of all those in the past and you were wrong about all of them.

          3. Clampers Outside

            1. I gave you a link to the Nazi calling. It was proven.

            2. The supposed doxxing was corrected immediately, and you agreed of the misunderstanding.

            3. Your support for Antifa was an argument of semantics.

            Try again.

          4. Nigel

            Three things you’ve been completely wrong about, three things you keep accusing me of. (Okay, you stopped doing the doxxing one, there’s hope for you yet.)

        1. Nigel

          Just to clarify: we have never discussed any of those things, I have never made any of those arguments, I have never expressed opinions on any of those things. Every time we discuss this topic you start off by atrributing a set of opinions to me I have never expressed on subjects we have never discussed. It’s very tedious. Trans men are men. Trans women are women. Trans rights are human rights. End of.

          1. Nigel

            Yes, they’re lies you bring up to deflect and distract from your transphobia, as if there’s something wrong with exploring the idea that sex and gender aren’t as fixed as hidebound reactionaries want them to be.

          2. Clampers Outside

            Nonsense, and accusation.

            They are not lies. You made those arguments.
            The arguments are based in pseudo science, and denial of biology with laughable examples like clownfish, plus going further by othering intersex persons.

            Nothing wrong with exploring ideas, it is welcomed. But when your arguments are countered, you shout “transphobe” because you have no other argument other than the pseudo science and spurious claims.

          3. Nigel

            Since you have failed to accurately express my actual thoughts, and opinions I’m going to have to insist that you are still just making stuff up. If you support and promote legal actions targeting trans people, I am going to call you transphobic, regardless of the mush of straw arguments you use to ‘win’ ‘debates’ aganst me.

          4. Clampers Outside

            Nope. Nothing made up. I distinctly remember you arguing sex on a spectrum, using intersex to bolster your argument and steadfastly insisting Self ID is enough to determine oneself a woman (or man).

          5. Nigel

            ‘Nothing wrong with exploring ideas, it is welcomed’

            I should add that the closest I’ve come to disciussing these issues with you has been when I’ve called you out when you mock, belittle, dismiss or savagely attack other people for exploring these ideas, so, no, I don’t think you welcome it at all.

          6. Nigel

            It’s weird the way you keep going on about it, though, bringing up things that may or may not have been said in completely different discussions, since you claim to ‘welcome’ exploring ideas. YOU keep introducing these, not me.

          7. Nigel

            It’s just so bizarre. I respond to your transphobia by calling it transphobia. You go off on a rant about all the stuff I’m supposed to think or believe, and how you have defeated all of these arguments, and how I’m reduced to calling you transphobic. But that didn’t happen. There was no debate or argument about these things. I just called you transphobic, because you are. Because you are determined to target trans people through the law, through medicine, through social scaremongering, through scientific arguments used to belittle them, hurt them, and that justify targeting them, mocking them, bullying them, scapegoating them. You’re such a classic Ordinary German.

          8. Clampers Outside

            As I’ve said before, every argument I have made on the trans issue has been made by trans individuals.
            Its not transphobic, it’s a call for proper care of patients, and fairness for the sexes.

            But hey, you do you pet.

          9. Micko

            “ Trans men are men. Trans women are women.”

            What a load of horse manure. You can’t argue with genetics Nigel. Come on

            We should absolutely treat people as they would like to be treated, with respect and kindness. And once they are adults they should have access to whatever procedures they want, should they want to change genders.

            Paid for by themselves of course – not the state. Nor should the state be encouraging it.. Empathising and caring, yes. But not encouraging.

            Men are men and women are women. Anything else is just pretending, pseudo science.

            Anecdotally, my friends daughter (16) was telling me a few months back that the majority of her friends in school are either gay, bi, trans or other. She is the only “straight” one with a boyfriend.

            She’s the odd one out.

          10. Nigel

            I’m not arguing genetics, or genitals, or biology. If people want to, they can, and no doubt they do, and no doubt some arguments are better than others. I am arguing a simple, social rule of absolute acceptance of a tiny, vulnerable minority in the face of the hatred, violence and discrimination directed at them. That is all. Great to see a younger generation being more open and accepting then mine was when I was growing up.

          11. Micko

            It’s a fad. Even my friend daughter said so. She thinks they’re acting like dopes.

            I must check and see how many have given up on it.

            I’ll be back with the answer

          12. Nigel

            No, Clamps, you seem to have argued both sides of that argument, to your own satisfaction, naturally.

            Micko – well, kids act like dopes regardless of sexuality, and they like to explore their identities, so let them off. Imagine, though, a ‘fad’ of being non-binary when I was growing up would likely get you beaten to death.

          13. Clampers Outside

            But imagine following a fad, where it is known 80%+ of kids grow out of, and instead of acting on that knowledge ignoring it and putting them all forward, without proper patient care, for an “affirmation” model approach to the fad. One that leads to life changing drugs being administered.
            And then calling people transphobic for pointing the problem out… Imagine…

          14. Micko

            Yep, and I do agree it’s better people aren’t bullied in that fashion Nigel.

            I have a friend who is a transgender woman. When we met her 15 years ago she was living as a man (and pretty miserable) and over the last decade (as an adult) she has been able to become what she wants to be.

            We all refer to her by her female name and treat her as a woman. To not do that would be terrible.

            But, she herself has said that she is not a woman.

            She is a trans woman and to call herself anything else would be “mental”. Her words – not mine.

            She is always happy to discuss it and we all support her.

            But, she knows she’s not technically a woman. She lives as one, but isn’t one.

            Trans women aren’t women. They are human beings – and sure that’s enough for me.

          15. Oro

            Your friend doesn’t speak for all trans people. Just as the gays for trump wouldn’t speak for all gay people. There’s a separation between sex (male / female and intersex which is related to biology) and gender (man / woman and others) which is a socialized expansion of the sex. They typically align but as we can see (since trans people are living and breathing), do not necessarily align.

            Trans people suffer all sorts of discrimination and the whole thing is not an elaborate ruse to set a few world records. Drop the negativity and remember that cultural movements (of which trans is now going thru) do not arrive fully formed.

            But Jesus aren’t you and the other one total bores. Huffing and puffing at the keyboards trying to make people’s lives harder for them and sitting back feeling happy with yourselves. And both men quelle surprise! Both presumably in atypical family situations quelle surprise part deux.

          16. Nigel

            Imagine witholding treatment from someone because complete strangers who don’t know them think it’s probably a ‘fad.’

            Micko – so you respect her wishes and her identity – that’s the right thing to do.

          17. Clampers Outside

            No one is withholding treatment from anyone who gets due patient care, which is something you don’t give a damn for.

          18. Micko

            Cool

            But she’s not a woman – in her own words.

            She thinks people who assert that opinion are crackers.

          19. Nigel

            Clamps, those things may have been discussed, but I’ve never based my opinion, which I’ve stated here quite clearly, as i have before, on them. You can’t or won’t understand that, but there’s not much I can do about it other than reiterate.

          20. Clampers Outside

            Yes, you’ve stated and argued the following are legit and valid…

            Self ID

            Sex is a spectrum

            There are innumerable genders

            Transgender persons should have access to womens spaces

            Hormone treatment in trans athletes is enough to make for fair sports with women (or men)

            Puberty blockers are reversible

            That person’s who speak out about transing kids through Tavistock lax patient care are just transphobes.

            Im sure I’ve left a few out… All bullpoo.

          21. Nigel

            The only thing I know for sure as legit and valid is that trans women are women, trans men are men, and trans rights are human rights. Your visceral reactionary disgust at new ideas about gender, sex and identity are your problem, not mine, and not trans people’s.

          22. Clampers Outside

            Visceral? Hah! Get off the bus.

            You’re the one arguing from an emotional and feelings based position Nigel, not me.

            Ya numpty.

        1. Janet, dreams of warm feet

          I’m sorry Nigel no probs with shared spaces but I’m not getting in a boxing ring or racing a transgender woman :)

          1. Nigel

            As is your right, but surely the issue around sports could be resolved calmly and carefully and fairly?

          2. Janet, dreams of warm feet

            hope so :)
            I feel like we are in a world where hysterics seems to be the modus operandi of the day

          3. Q Celt

            Teenagers been mutilated, when the research that has been carried out shows vast majority 90% revert to birth sex in 20s {although university no longer allow such research as its outcomes might not be pro trans}.

          4. Q Celt

            Significant numbers of male prisoners, often those who have committed odious crimes, suddenly self identifying as women and being transferred to women’s prisons. Not Safe.

          5. Clampers Outside

            The calmness and fairness approach was already done, and TRAs attacked such discussion.

            Now, as is the case in Scotland, where the discussion was not had (nor was it in Ireland regarding Self ID), they are having to go the legal route to challenge, and correct, what some politicians believed was their right to change the legal definition of “woman”.

          6. Clampers Outside

            Fair would be another category if those MTF trans individuals don’t want to compete with men, and similarly for FTM, although with regard FTM they would be disqualified for the taking of testosterone, so again, a third/fourth category would suit for the interest of fairness.

            Similarly for other sex segregated spaces, an additional category.

          7. Micko

            The erosion of women’s sports is on the way if we allow this

            I’d be up for separate transgender league – as a third approach.

            But putting a man up against a woman is insane.

            Bigger lungs, bigger heart, more power, stronger muscles and tendons.
            Years of testosterone during puberty cannot be undone.

            It’s tremendously unfair.

          8. Nigel

            Trans women have been competing in women’s sports for decades, yet they have somehow completely failed to diominate it this way.

          9. Clampers Outside

            They do disproportionately well, and there are already women’s records beaten by trans athletes that leave no hope of women ever getting that accolade again. That is domination. It doesn’t happen overnight, but with one win at a time taking the top prize beyond women’s ability.

            Google’s your friend, use it.

          10. Micko

            Hasn’t been that many. Renee Richards in the 70’s – is there many more before the 2000’s

            Also,
            “ A September 2019 study from the Karolinska Institutet in Stockholm found that a year of hormone therapy decreased muscle mass in transgender women only modestly.”

            So there’s that science. And this

            “ A 38-page draft document from World Rugby’s transgender working group in 2020 acknowledged that female rugby players, when tackled by a player who has gone through male puberty, are at a significantly greater risk of injury. The document cites recent peer-reviewed or preprint[a][24] research showing that trans women, after taking medication to lower their testosterone, retain “significant” physical advantages over biological women “with only small reductions in strength and no loss in bone mass or muscle volume or size after testosterone suppression”

            But, we don’t even need any studies. Everyone knows that men are stronger than women (generally speaking of course)

          11. Nigel

            All of sport is a competition of biological advantage – coupled with training and skill, of course. Ironic, though, the one sphere where people are arguing trans people be excluded because they supposedly have an advantage. Not many advantages to being trans anywhere else.

          12. Clampers Outside

            Your last sentence admits there is an advantage to being trans in sports… Well, at least you’ve come to that realisation.

            Now dwell on it, and the idea of fairness in sports sex categories and why they are there.

          13. Micko

            If “ All of sport is a competition of biological advantage” then why do we have men’s an women’s separate contests in the first place

            According to your logic we should just have all men and women and trans athletes compete against each other in the same arena.

            I can tell you how that would go.

            You’re talking outta yer bum on this one Nig

          14. Nigel

            Because for most of recorded history women were excluded from almost all sport, and almost all sporting competitions, and socially we still favour boys over girls when it comes to sporting activities? Women have endured centuries of social, personal, educational, psychological and maybe even genetic conditioning to exclude them mentally and physically from sports. Look at your absloulte assumption about the intrinsic inferiority of female athletes. I don’t know if men and women will ever compete equally, but it’ll a long way in the future before it could happen.

          15. Clampers Outside

            Wow!… I’m rolling around the floor laughing… I’ve seen this argument made before. The idea that if women were raised and treated as blokes they’d do just as well in sports as the men,. Its an argument that goes completely against all that we know of the differences in biology between the sexes. It is also an argument that goes completely against evolution of homosapiens…. I love it, full on “social construction theory” in all its ridiculous glory :)

            That’s the best laugh out of you I’ve had for a while, thanks :)

          16. Janet, dreams of warm feet

            Nigel, I’m a fit strong woman, I have a metal bar and screw down my right arm from trying to beat a man smaller than me in an arm wrestle, broke it in three places, I’ll. ever forget the noise,
            I gave myself a hairline fracture in my tibia trying to sustain a pace over 10km to impress a ride of a man ( champion boxer ), I did it and I got the ride, but it was EASY for him,
            I could go on, I found out the hard way the only thing I can hope to beat lads at is running long distances because my female advantages start to kick in,
            I have high testosterone it doesn’t matter I’m not and never will be able to compete with a similarly fit/ sized male.

          17. Micko

            You’re hilarious Nidge

            Even an out of shape man could beat 90% of women in an arm wrestle.

            It’s a fact.

            It’s unfair fo the two to compete together and it’s unfair to put someone who’s had 6+ years of testosterone during puberty up against someone who hasn’t.

            In the same way steroids are unfair.

            And South Park agrees with me ;-)

            https://youtu.be/URz-RYEOaig

          18. Janet, dreams of warm feet

            tell me about it, the upside is I know when it’s going to rain, the old arm tingles

          19. Micko

            Owww Janet. Sore :-(

            Men and women are equal… but we’re not the same.

            There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just life.

          20. Janet, dreams of warm feet

            I agree although it took me time to mellow to it, far too competitive in my youth, as I was oft told ” if you can’t hear you must feel child ” ;)

  4. An Absolute Gent

    A perfect storm- a hard Brexit and a total lockdown
    Total annihilation impending of the economic life of the country

    Cue musha sure what could we have done instead wailing, Brian Cowen style

  5. Verbatim

    History teacher decapitated in Paris suburbs, suspected Chechen Muslim 18 shot dead – yesterday’s news already?

    1. Janet, dreams of warm feet

      punished for showing the Charlie Hebdo caricature in défense of liberty of expression according to Sharia law…. apparently,
      just a few weeks after another but job took an axe to some journalist outside the Hebdo offices

      1. Janet, dreams of warm feet

        he had actually taken precautions and asked any muslim student who was uncomfortable with it to leave the room before hand

        1. Clampers Outside

          Macron’s quick response in showing full support of the teacher is to be commended… He didn’t mince his words, with no psychophanting to fundamentalists, fair dues.

          1. Janet, dreams of warm feet

            Wish we saw more separation on this island. The 1905 French law on the Separation of the Churches and State (French: Loi du 9 décembre 1905 concernant la séparation des Églises et de l’État) was passed by the Chamber of Deputies on 9 December 1905. … This law is seen as the backbone of the French principle of laïcité (secularism).

            Purpose: neutrality of the state; protecting freedom of conscience

          2. Clampers Outside

            Well, I just learned something new :)
            I’ve heard him make more general references to the strong French tradition of freedom of expression, but was not aware of that bit of law.

          3. Janet, dreams of warm feet

            also limits public powers and tax revenues allocated toward organized religions and cults….

          4. An Absolute Gent

            Because that’s what you want
            A sort of polarising of a complex issue into a black and white one with little room for reflection

          5. An Absolute Gent

            That law came about with the aftermath of the French Revolution and events preceding same Clampers.

            France enjoyed the same sort of religious minded persecution and abuse of power which was also a feature of our own history.

            Watch the movie “the Devils” for context

          6. Q Celt

            FG floated the idea in the 1950s that the elected senate be replaced by the RC bishops to ensure that all laws were inline with RC dogma.
            Even without this the Irish Republic has often acted like a theocracy

          7. newsjustin

            Yes, the 1905 law was so clever it sees the French State own and operate 70 French churches, and on the hook to pay to rebuild Notre Dame in Paris.

            The 1905 law is simply a means of trying to tidy up the chaos brought about by rabid anti-catholicism exhibited during, and after the French revolution. What went on in the Vendée, for example.

            Regardless, France is absolutely right to take the toughest of lines against anyone who would seek to muzzle freedom of expression and anyone who would use violence to advance their backward aims. We should all stand with the French in this regard.

          8. Janet, dreams of warm feet

            The churches are viewed as the patrimoine, a culturel, architectural héritage but nice try ;)

          9. newsjustin

            Yes, the inheritance and patrimony of French catholics.

            In fairness, only a madman could disagree with my second point.

          10. Janet, dreams of warm feet

            not just french catholics , all french people , infact all humans, our races heritage.

          11. newsjustin

            As a general rule, two wrongs don’t make a right.

            And the Vendée people, for the most part lived quiet, peaceful lives before their world was turned upside down and they were slaughtered.

      2. An Absolute Gent

        All sympathies to the family of the deceased
        But how is publishing a provincial- minded provocative cartoon helping to promote the cause of freedom of expression Janet? It seems like a case of running the gauntlet and rubbing people’s nose in it?

        1. Janet, dreams of warm feet

          you are completely missing the point,
          it’s called freedom of speech, that includes opinions you don’t agree with,
          and you shouldn’t run the risk of being decapitated for having a conversation,
          I don’t agree with News views on abortion but I wouldn’t harm a hair on his head infact I’d be happy to have a drink with the man,
          I’m an atheist, I don’t run around burning churches, I could go on.

          1. newsjustin

            +1

            (and I was going to give you that +1 based on the first paragraph, before I realised I got a mention.)

          2. Clampers Outside

            I’ll bite.
            Freedom of speech, is part of and intertwined with, freedom of expresssion, and both are similarly connected to freedom of discussion, and in this case, that of offence and censorship.

            The teacher had a class on freedom of expression.
            The Charlie Hebdo incident was, as would be proper, made a discussion point.
            The material of the discussion was shown in class.
            The teacher was decapitated.

            This is an attack on the ability to discuss such issues. An attack on discussion is a limitation on advancement of discourse.

          3. Janet, dreams of warm feet

            what clamps said, you don’t get to cherry pick what’s offensive and to whom or I’d decapitate every last fool in grey tracksuit bottoms

          4. Rosette of Sirius

            Jeez. I’m in a pair of grey sweats after my 15miler this morning. I’ll switch to navy… (am I safe in navy?!)

  6. Birdie

    Fair play Robbie Keane, such a great career and still so young. Seem to have a terrific wife that has supported you too with everything. More power to the two of you.

  7. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    Congrats to Jacinda Ardern in NZ. A massive win. She beat the virus and she dealt with the Christchurch murderer as well as possible.

  8. E'Matty

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/stick-your-vaccine-up-your-arse-the-covid-19-vaccine-the-science-and-the-sceptics-1.4382014?mode=amp

    Worth a read. Professor O’Neil expressing very frankly where this is going, and many of us have warned of for some time now – A “better policy”, Prof O’Neill suggests, could be “to say ‘you’re part of our society and if your child is not vaccinated you can’t go to school or, if you don’t have an immunity stamp on your passport, you can’t travel.’”

    Also worth checking out:
    https://www.gavi.org/investing-gavi/funding/donor-profiles/mastercard

    “Under the banner of “efficiently delivering vaccines to millions of children, tracking identity and immunisation records in a digitised manner and incentivising the delivery of vaccines,”

    “This partnership aims to leverage state of the art technology by bringing the Smart into traditional immunisation programs for optimal impact in terms of reach, adherence, efficiency and centralised record keeping of childhood immunisation.”

    https://id2020.org/

    CEPI was founded by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.While CEPI announced the launching of a global vaccine at the Davos World Economic Forum January 2019, another important and related endeavor was underway. It’s called the ID2020 Agenda “an electronic ID program that uses generalized vaccination as a platform for digital identity”.

    “The program harnesses existing birth registration and vaccination operations to provide newborns with a portable and persistent biometrically-linked digital identity”.

    The Founding Partners of ID2020 are Microsoft, the Rockefeller Foundation and the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization (GAVI) among others. GAVI was founded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

    1. SOQ

      As someone who has worked in IT most of my life, I am always wary of ‘the next big thing’. A lot of the ‘next big things’ are actually not technological advances at all but marketing spins to sell you something you never knew you needed- a talking fridge is a must have?

      But even then, new thing take time before they really work as intended. Track and trace being a classic example- rushed, badly tested and thrown out onto a variety of devices without consideration for specification differences – or even device accuracy.

      It’s too late for that now of course- as it would have only been effective on what was considered to be a near virus free population- and time is not on their side with the wider pandemic issues either.

      So it is not pharma on the gold rush but also tech and many a presentation will be delivered with great polish but- will it work?

      Probably not because just like vaccines where side effects aside, the effiacy will take a very long time to test, by which time CoVid-19 will be seen for what it is- a seasonal virus with an overall 99.97% survival rate.

      But that doesn’t matter as long as they can keep the Y2K fear going until the contracts are signed and the payments are made. BIG pictures will be painted of ‘the art of the possible’ but implementation and especially testing- is a completely different ball game.

      So in summary I am not too bothered by these dystopian story boards because at this point, that is all they are- stories.

      1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

        @SOQ – A seasonal virus that fills ICU capacity, that leaves some people with long Covid, that means normal human activity has to be constrained – the degree to which this is required is what seems to be in dispute.

        1. SOQ

          Dear God- outside of parts of Italy with a high proportion of elderly high risk and direct flights from china- there has been no filling of ICU in Europe.

          Long term CoVid is called post viral syndrome which happens even with the common flu.

          Australia like New Zealand has a very low level of viral respiratory conditions so does it not dawn on you that there may need to be a different strategy?

    2. Rosette of Sirius

      You are able to bank your money and get credit and buy a house and get a phone and the internet. You can in short have and own stuff where that ownership is protected by law. Your life is managed by a series of digital identities broadly connected by your PPS number.

      The vast majority of people in the developing world do not have such protections and to help lift people out of poverty, their ability to have some form of standardized ID is essential for them and their children, in time, emerge from poverty. It’s a tall order and a big ask. That’s what ID2020 is set out to assist with.

      But then I don’t know why I’m bothering because, you know, Soros, 5G, scamdemic, contrails and all the other crazy that the BS Bord an Rona brigade buy into.

      1. f_lawless

        The people behind ID2020 are the same transnational capitalist elites who meet at the World Economic Forum – those now using the pandemic as a pretext to implement their “Great Reset” plan to radically restructure world economies and speed up the advent of the so called “4th industrial revolution”.

        It would be misguided to believe that those elites behind the ID2020 initiative are motivated by some benevolent, philanthropic desire to help people in developing nations. This is the manufactured narrative to sell the plan. In reality they’re exploiting these populations to extract profit and exert greater control over them. Those at the very top of the financial hierarchy don’t function like the average person. They’re megalomaniacs, lacking in empathy and with psychopathic tendencies.

        What we’re witnessing unfold now is a new form of techno-transnational fascism dressed up in progressive values being imposed upon much of the world as these capitalist elites, (headed by Klaus Schwab, executive chairman of the World Economic Forum), set out to implement the “Great Reset”.

        Worth a read.
        http://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2020/10/14/klaus-schwab-and-his-great-fascist-reset-an-overview/

          1. f_lawless

            Ah here, that’s poor even for you bisted. At least come up with something more original next time. ;)


            “It is our defining moment”, (says Klaus Schwab). “Many things will change forever”. “A new world will emerge”. “The societal upheaval unleashed by COVID-19 will last for years, and possibly generations”. “Many of us are pondering when things will return to normal. The short response is: never”.

            If you were to interpret that as some kind of uplifting message, you’d be a bit green around the ears . These global policy-making elites want to use the pandemic to re-shape the world according to their own warped vested interests and to further consolidate their position of power.

            Meanwhile Sweden and the few other nations who weren’t spooked into going down the road of lockdowns, have shown us that it is possible for societies to return to normality without the need for huge upheavals and to impose permanent changes.

            By ignoring new evidence that has emerged about the virus and by refusing to consider any alternative approach other than rolling lockdowns, our own feckless political leaders are showing that they’re completely in thrall to these elites. A movement of mass civil resistance is urgently needed if there’s to be any chance of blocking the “Great Reset”. If we just passively sleepwalk into this “new normal” hoping that things will somehow eventually work out, then that’s all she wrote, as they say .

            In the near future, we’re increasingly going to be nudged towards opting in to these blockchain digital identities (aka “Health Passports”). That’s one of the cornerstones to the “Great Reset”. If enough of us don’t opt in and challenge it, it would be a step in the right direction, in my opinion.

          2. SOQ

            bisted lost his 90+ mother recently- which leaves him/her now terrified- sorry I mean retired,.

            But sure it is just a bored comic behind most of the trolling but at least he knows how we feel when we pay good money to watch his show.

          3. bisted

            …glad you made the subtraction module of your course even though you seem to have missed Modelling101…in pursuit of your Malthusian solution I’d say you have as much to worry about as me…

        1. E'Matty

          Great comment. Absolutely spot on. People have a terribly naive view of power.

          ““Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority; still more when you superadd the tendency of the certainty of corruption by authority.” – Lord Acton.

          The most powerful interests in the world see the opportunity to exercise absolute power on a global level for the first time in human history. Yet, some naively believe power would not take advantage of this opportunity. We’ll all pay the price for this childlike innocence.

        2. Burgess, snip, snip...

          Horse and twaddle…. I’ll let you in on a little secret. In 2016, I attended the inaugural meeting in NY to discuss how provide ID to 1.5 billion people living without any form of recognized legal identification… Woo are you, woo woo….?

          1. E'Matty

            “I’ll let you in on a little secret. In 2016, I attended the inaugural meeting in NY to discuss how provide ID to 1.5 billion people living without any form of recognized legal identification… ” and your point is? How does that change the fact there is a clearly evidenced agenda to have every human being assigned a digital biometric identity using the administering of vaccines as the platform for delivery? The agenda for mass global vaccination and digital IDs predate this Covid nonsense. It’s so very positive, it’s not discussed in our media at all. Tell us what your point is.

  9. V AKA Frilly Keane

    Right – that it lads, can’t read the papers in any peace with ye

    So Bake’Sheet is back on

    Tomorrow I’m going to post up a recipe and a round up from the tent

    This f’ing pandemic has everyone at the edge of whatever it is they struggle with when things aren’t as they should be
    Figure out your own lockdown management plan yerselves
    In the meantime
    There’s cake

    Starting with a Soda Bread
    All ye need to worry about now is will it be a sweet or a savoury soda
    Or mebbe both

    But yere definitely going to need
    Wholemeal Flour, Plain Flour, Buttermilk, and Bicarb
    And some more manners
    And a lot less egos

Comments are closed.