It’s A Mudslide [Updated]

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From top: challenger Joe Biden and US President Donald Trump; Swing states as of 5.04pm today

“We knew because of the unprecedented early mail-in vote that it was going to take a while. We’re going to have to be patient until the hard work of tallying votes is finished and it ain’t over until every vote is counted, every ballot is counted. But we’re feeling good. We’re feeling good about where we are.”

US Democrat Presidential candidate Joe Biden.

Meanwhile…

“Millions and millions of people voted for us tonight. And a very sad group of people is trying to disenfranchise that group of people, and we won’t stand for it.

“This is a fraud on the American public. This is an embarrassment to our country. We were getting ready to win this election. Frankly, we did win this election. So our goal now is to ensure the integrity. We’ll be going to the US Supreme Court. We want all voting to stop. We don’t want them to find any ballots at 4 o’clock in the morning and add them to the list, OK?

“We will win this, and as far as I’m concerned, we already have.”

US President Donald Trump this morning.

More as we get it.

US election 2020 live results: Donald Trump takes on Joe Biden in race for White House (The Guardian)

Last night: Rarely Wrong

Meanwhile…

Good times.

277 thoughts on “It’s A Mudslide [Updated]

      1. Rosette of Sirius

        Leading before the postal and absentee count is completed so it’ll very likely he’ll carry. CNN and others not announcing yet as there were asked not to announce until outcome unequivocal.

    1. Charger Salmons

      So this is how the 2020 presidential election is going to end.
      Not with a bang but with a WI/MI/PA.

  1. Nigel

    I hope everyone who completely lost the rag over the DNC in 2016 is managing to keep it together at Trump trying to stop counting legal ballots.

        1. Charlie

          Trump wins the world loses. He loses, he’ll throw the toys out of the pram, spit on democracy and there’s likely to be total unrest.

          1. rominick

            Where did you get this idea from?
            How does the world “lose”?
            I’m not baiting you just looking for a genuine reason for your opinion.

          2. Charlie

            “Not baiting you”, yea sure.
            Seriously!? You want me to list the truckload of reasons why this guy is on any benefit to the world, whether it be climate, inciting hatred, racism etc etc. Humour me and tell me how this narcissistic individual will benefit the planet please. List the reasons that will make the world beyond the US a better place.

          3. Ghost of Yep

            No, it’s not Leroy.

            Call me whatever you like though if it helps work through that infantile rage.

          4. Charlie

            Tell me. What will the narcissist bring to the world beyond the US. What benefits will he bring to saving the planet?

          5. rominick

            @Charlie Since when is asking someone to explain themselves baiting?
            I never said he would benefit the planet, you’re the one making statements I just asked for a reason, the burden of proof is on you to provide them.
            “You want me to list the truckload of reasons why this guy is on any benefit to the world, whether it be climate, inciting hatred”
            Concrete examples please?
            I’d suggest that in future you refrain from making statements without examples/proof.
            Also when someone questions you don’t take as a personal attack.

          6. Charlie

            I’ll ask again. You’re obviously a Trump voter. I have no interest in the mess that is America. How will the planet benefit from the narcissist winning? What will he offer?

          7. Ghost of Yep

            Why is any leader of any country responsible for bringing benefits to the rest of the world? America is unfathomably broke.

            For that matter when was the last time an American leader has only brought good to the rest of the world?

          8. Charlie

            Everyone is responsible for making the world a better place. So, once again, what will Trump bring to make the planet a better place. Climate even?

          9. Micko

            @charlie

            Anyone that runs for president / leader of any country is a narcissist. You’d have to be.

            Anyone who’s actually rationally thought about taking that job for more than 5 seconds would turn it down.

            It takes a special kind of psycho to want to rule.

          10. Janet, dreams of a steamed clootie

            dead right however, politics attracts exactly the wrong kind of person to the job for all the wrong reasons, one doesn’t have to look over to that pooshow to see that

          11. Charlie

            I’m quite fond on Mickey D to be honest and believe him to be a decent human being who serves this country well as opposed to “rule”. Doubtless, there are presidents who do it for egotistical reason but to what level? Trump has taken it to new heights and barring a few dictators and a number of crazies in underdeveloped countries, I see his off the scale.

          12. Ghost of Yep

            “Everyone is responsible for making the world a better place.” Sorry, I’d no idea I was talking to Charlie Bucket.

            *gently ruffling hair*

            Have a great day, kiddo.

    1. Vanessanelle

      He’s not wrong about finding ballots at 4am in the morning Nigel

      Mysteriously turning up
      Just like that
      At wrong locations or in locked rooms
      Dems are great lost vote hunters – in fairness

      Jesus lads, seriously
      Would ye come on

      Whatever way this looks like in January
      One half of that Country will be disenfranchised
      and not all of them are the grotesque stereotypes Democrats insist they are

      This is what happens when you call that many people Deplorables
      and your side claims when they go low we go high
      From its own White House ffs

      in a proper media
      that would be seen as telling the other half of America’s voters / citizens
      that
      we don’t think you’re equal to us – so there

      and then spend the next four years pointing out every example where they were right

      1. Nigel

        The Republicans are great ones for hiding votes, in fairness.

        As for the rest – absolute nonsense and tosh. At some point yoiu’re going to have to hold people respnsible for their voting choices and stop[ blaming the side whose sins in the area of d stereotyping are venal by comparison with the others, and who commit disenfranchisement just by existing, as opposed to actual acts of disenfranchisement by the other side.

          1. Ghost of Yep

            Oh, it’s not just a concept. The idea that people should be held accountable for not voting how some would consider correct is nothing new.

            Not a fan of how it has gone in the past personally.

          2. Nigel

            Another concept people have problem with is people thinking that an electorate made a bad choice being a part of democracy.

          3. Ghost of Yep

            Well I’m sure you have held your hands up and hold yourself accountable for voting Green after the vote in July.

            I suspect you won’t let go of that moral superiority easily though so have probably squared it away in the knowledge Deliveroo staff are slightly safer on roads in South Dublin.

            Have a good one.

          4. Nigel

            I didn’t have a Green candidate to vote for, actually for what it’s worth. On the other hand, perhaps the people who voted for FF and FG should bear the brunt of the responsibility since its their policies the Greens are going along with.

        1. V aka Frilly Keane

          In that case

          How come the best the Democratic party could come up with was Joe Biden
          Who last contested an election in 2012

          Two sides – shur’ look for yourself
          At some point yoiu’re going to have to hold people respnsible for their voting choices and stop[ blaming the side whose sins …… etc etc

          1. Nigel

            No-one is ever slow to blame the Democrats, or the woke, or cancel culture, no matter what happens. Even if Biden wins, the blame for everything will fall squarely on him, the DNC and Democratic voters, with Republicans and MAGATs standing on the sidelines going – look at this mess you made! And you’ll be agreeing with them.

          2. Vanessanelle

            No I won’t actually

            I’m an All Walks of Life Person
            As long as we’re all Equal

            If the FK archive didn’t make that obvious

            The columns published elsewhere since
            particularly around Democracy

            and ethics in Politics

            Should clear that up

          3. Nigel

            Well I eagerly await your analysis of why so many people voted for Trump after four years of his administration, analysis that goes beyond someone using the word ‘deplorables’ more than four years ago.

          4. Vanessanelle

            Nothing much to it Nidgie

            Any candidate calling a voter Deplorable
            Or an Administration declaring that there are people in American who are less than they are

            Was going to result in votes running away from them
            And they just reran the 2016 campaign

            Democracy is under serious threat folks

          5. Nigel

            V – when did Biden do any of that? All of Trump’s – and McConnell’s – carry-on and you think democracy in the US is under threat from Biden? Are you high?

          6. V aka Frilly Keane

            I wouldn’t vote for Trump or McConnell either Nidgie
            Christ I wouldn’t touch them with yours FFS
            Or a whole raft of them under the GoP tickets

            Merely
            Attempting at least
            To point out slagging off voters that don’t vote for Dems as being less than they are
            Is an insult not just to Democracy
            But to Equality
            And that’s where my aggravation firmly resides

            And you’ve the nerve to ask if I’m high
            FFS lads

            Where are all the Broadsheet free-speechers now huh?

          7. SOQ

            Just a point of record but Hilary was not the first to use the word ‘deplorables’ Trump was- and it was about disabled war veterans begging outside Trump Towers- which he wanted moved on.

            Clinton then used the term as a retort and the media ran with it as though there was no context- they have a habit of doing that of course.

          8. Nigel

            Except Biden didn’t slag off voters, and you’re blowing a single word said by someone else four years ago into a massive act of inequality – it’s an absolute joke.

          9. Nigel

            I’ve no doubt that Trump’s well-off wiote voter base feels thoroughly disadvantaged and victimised, and have done since Reconstruction.

      1. george

        He abuses executive orders.
        He declared a state of emergency to divert military funding to building a border wall.
        He abuses “security concerns” to impose tariffs that are not WTO compliant.
        He has told his supporters that there will be an attempt to steal the election and instructed them to turn up at polling stations to monitor people exercising their right to vote.
        He praised a group of people who dangerously surrounded a Biden bus with trucks and who rammed a Biden campaign vehicle with a truck.
        He intends to have millions of votes discarded.
        He fires people who give him advice he doesn’t like.
        He doesn’t respect the freedom the press.
        He has interfered in military courts dealing with soldiers accused of war crimes.
        He undermined due process by saying twice that Bowe Bergdahl should be executed.
        He lies constantly.
        He uses his position as president to ignore covid-19 measures put in place by states.
        He uses the Dept of Justice for personal legal issues.

        1. Charger Salmons

          On the plus side he made huge progress in Middle East diplomacy that has seen a number of Arab states recognise Israel for the first time.
          He oversaw a massive boost to the American economy which saw more black people in work than at any time in American history.
          He withstood four years of bogus Democratic attempts to overturn his Presidency including failed impeachment and the fraudulent Russiagate probe which found absolutely no evidence.
          His anti-lockdown policy has proved hugely popular across the country among people who stand to lose their livelihoods while well-paid scientists and politicians remain secure in theirs.
          And he has compounded the entire liberal media and polling attempts to declare a Biden landslide by taking this election right down to the wire.
          Plus, and this is quite important, he didn’t declare war or bomb any country.
          I’ll take all that over ” firing people whose advice he doesn’t like “

          1. Charlie

            You’ll be collecting your €2 each way win online or will Paddy Power be sending it over to the gaf via Brinks?

          2. george

            My list was of the dictator like aspects of his time in office. Nothing you’ve said is an argument against that. If you want a general list of the awful things he’s done it is much much longer and I’m not going to bother.

      2. deluded

        I heard him declaring voter fraud (without evidence of any fraud except for Republican tactics) and that the counting should stop and to go to the Supreme Court to declare himself victor.
        I’m quoting his speech here… how do you interpret it?

        1. Junkface

          Voter fraud with regards to mail in votes has never peaked over 0.2%. So its within 1% of the vote. Trump is just spouting nonsense as usual because Republicans fear a large voter turn out. Thats why they repeatedly engage in voter suppression, especially in non white areas.

          1. deluded

            from Wikipedia
            “…. In April 2020, a 20-year voter fraud study by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology found the level of fraud “exceedingly rare” since it occurs only in “0.00006 percent” of instances nationally, and, in one state, “0.000004 percent — about five times less likely than getting hit by lightning in the United States.”…”

  2. Toby

    After years of preaching and politicising behaviour, what ave the woke brigade got to show for themselves? I hope they see this as a wake up call that their campaign of judgemental coercion and compulsory compassion is actually driving people to the dark side. Look at the rise of the right since this bunch of self-proclaimed champions of kindness started forcing their morality on the world.

    I hope they have the grace to step back and reflect now. But they won’t. They are too full of their own self righteousness to actually listen to people and hear them. Shame. Joe would have been harmless, no wonder he and the smart Dems were afraid fo the hard left liberals who have hijacked the party.

    1. Nigel

      Blaming other people for making them join the ‘dark side?’ Enforced morality? They voted for banning abortions and discriminating against LGTBQ, and pious hardline Christians voted for a philandering crook in the name of enforcing their God’s values. Feck off with that utter nonsense.

      1. Toby

        What is cancel culture except enforced morality? The identity politics you guys peddle is divisive and discriminatory. Its about blame and coercion rather than the “kindness” you wear a a shield. The rise of the right can be directly linked to the rise of the woke insistence that people behave a certain way. People have given you their answer.

        1. Nigel

          ‘Cancel culture’ is people who normally are above crticism getting criticised. They hate that. ‘The rise of the woke’ is exactly the sort of propaganda the right use to justify their behaviour, blaming others, a pretextfor coercive actions. You should ask yourself why you’re so susceptible to believing it.

          1. Clampers Outside

            ‘Cancel culture’ is a lot more than mere criticism. If it were simply that, people wouldn’t be losing jobs due to it. But they do. Facts be facts.

          2. Clampers Outside

            Yes, really.

            As for Toby’s opinion, and he’s entitled to it, as you are yours (Nor does Toby’s opinion, as per your statement of it, have a bearing on that).

        2. Toby

          Cancel culture is “say what we agree with or we are banning you”. Thats not criticism, its censorship.And all done in the name of canceling hate and promoting compassion… well Nige, how is that going for you and your scary judgemental crusading friends?

          1. Nigel

            Not liking people because they’re racist is now a bad thing, apparently. We need to get in line and like the people we’re told to like.

          2. Clampers Outside

            That’s not what he said though.
            And what you’ve stated sounds more like woke thinking. Go woke enough, you’ll be agreeing with racists on segregation (as has already happened at universities in the US)

          3. Clampers Outside

            The black male vote went up 38%, and the black female vote doubled from 2016… for Trump ….
            (to 18% and 8% respectively)

            I guess they must be suffering from internalised racism, or something. You should tell ’em what for Nigel !

          4. Clampers Outside

            Hahaha… I’m not surprised you see nothing wrong with segregation. ‘Go woke, be racist’ should be on a t-shirt for you any day now :)

          5. Nigel

            ‘okay with segregation.’

            Maybe a white person should try sitting in the front of bus or at a cafe or go to a school some time. In the fifties. While black. Then they’d know what segregation is.

          6. Nigel

            Didn’t say I was ok with it. In fact I’m pretty sure it’s illegal. You can only segregate in the US by locking less well-off people out of places and opportunities through wealth and privelege.

          7. Clampers Outside

            Your beloved Antifa have been practicing segregation for months now in Portland, they love the idea, sooo progressive and woke apparently… Some joke those Fools :)

          8. Clampers Outside

            That comment is only revealing your contempt for any civic order.
            Wouldn’t surprise me if you were one of those cheerleaders of the same antifa who burned down businesses saying “sure aren’t they insured”….. It’s pathetic.

        3. deluded

          What exactly are you saying?
          That we should be more tolerant of bigotry and bullying?
          My read on it is that only the most extraordinary and talented can rise above systemic discrimination; what you appear to be saying is that nobody should defend the powerless, that nobody should stand up for those without the wit or wealth to carve their own space.

        4. Toby

          When you start seeing bigotry everywhere, and offence everywhere, and racism everywhere and act as moral judge and jury condemning and canceling people for some spurious moral failing- then the public will look at you and wonder about your actual motivation.

          Often the public see through the bluster of “oh were just fighting bigotry cos we care” and recognise the superior, virtue signalling, smug self righteousness that you are calling compassion.

          Just take the way the woke talk about catholic’s and christians and you will see how they alienate people.

          Or JK Rowling to take a well known example.

          If you don’t see this than you are being as wilfully blind as the media.

          1. Nigel

            Yes, how dare we have opinions, if we’re going to insist on having opinions then something will have to be done about it, so let’s elect a hard right authoritarian crook, that’ll teach us to have wrong opinons.

          2. Toby

            Opinions are not the same as setting out to destroy someone’s life because you disagree with them. But instead of realising this, lets find someone else to blame.

            Nigel, this behaviour is what makes the media and the polls get things so wrong. You don’t listen to those who disagree with you, you cancel them. Well guess what- they are still here. So hows your kindness working out now?

          3. Nigel

            Yes, they are still there, almost as if this idea of cancel culture is a complete crock and a bogeyman to justify far right extremism, and for yourself to denounce minorities for speaking up about discrimination.

          4. deluded

            Do you not see bigotry and bullying everywhere? I thought it was part-and-parcel of animal behaviour.
            Unlike Newt Gingrich and his ilk, though, I think we should rise above it.
            I don’t understand people like JK Rowling, why does she care so much about other people’s identity? Why do bigots care so much about identity that they make it political?

          5. Toby

            Of course you don’t understand, Because you’re too busy seeing bigotry everywhere. How could you understand when you have so many people to judge and to castigate and to eye roll and correct.

            as for identity politics- if you don’t see the absurdity of a woman being persecuted for saying women are women, then you are truly lost.

            But ts ok, just keep your eye on all that bigotry that you have to fight.

          6. Toby

            I am a member of a number of minorities. I don’t need your twisted sense of compassion to protect me thanks. I don’t need to be weaponised by you in order to fuel your sense of righteousness or superiority., I certainly don’t need the attention you unnecessarily pile on me, or the compassion you profess in my name to make your own better. Stop exploiting us thanks.

          7. Nigel

            But Clampers my having opinions caused Trump, apparently. It’s all my fault! The poor Tump voters had no choice but to vote for him when they found out I thought racism was bad!

          8. Nigel

            Toby I’m not trying to protect you or anyone, I just have opinions which I formed on my own and which I am now informed are the real cause of Trump and Brexit and the guys in Poland and Erdogan and Putin and the rest. All the lucky minorities in those countries will be well protected from my opinions now!

    2. Toby

      But wouldn’t you think that after 4 years of having this guy in the whitehouse, the woke would have made some headway? But no, he is actually holding his vote. Even with Covid against him, So, what have the woke achieved except division and alienation.

      1. Nigel

        Surely after four years in the White House the division and alienation are Trump’s great acheivement? Give the man his due.

        1. Toby

          Ah yes, always blaming, never reflecting. Its the woke way. So full of your own righteousness that you cant even see the harm you’re causing. What else would the left have predicted a landslide? Deafened in your own echo chamber of kindness. Well done sounders.

          1. Nigel

            You tell me I’m causing the harm, meanwhile, the US just pulled out of the Paris Agreement and Trump is threatening to stop counting legal votes to declare victory and the US covid death tolls is, what over 230,000? Wow, well done me.

          2. Toby

            Typical whataboutery. As I said, you don’t have the ability to self reflect. Blame, point, judge, moralise- but never reflect. Beware those who are certain, and nothing reflects certainly like the zeal in the eye of the woke.

          3. Nigel

            Now apparently I’m not allowed to blame other people for doing what they’re doing… self reflection is weird, especially when I’m informed that the conclusion I must reach is that by opposing Trump it’s my fault Trump is getting so much support.

          4. Toby

            Exactly! Who would you be if you couldn’t blame people. Its what fuels your campaign of persecution and punishment.

          5. Nigel

            Odd, then, that you’re telling me to stop having opinions because of the campaign of persecution and the punishment that will follow from the right. Just for me having opinions.

          6. Toby

            Thats right. Opinions. Like the KKK have opinions. Or Jk Rowling.

            When other have options, its hate speech. But yours are cloaked in the righteousness of the woke. Always seeing the speck in the eyes of others, but ignoring the log in your own.

          7. Nigel

            So, appreantly it’s ridiculous to think the KKK have hateful opinions? (I don’t think JK Rowling is hateful, but I strongly disagree with her – sorry, I know I’m not supposed to, i can’t help it.) Thankfully, I’ll always have you to point out how wrong I am to think the KKK are hateful, and how hateful I am for disagreeing with JK Rowling.

        2. Clampers Outside

          Every single political correspondent commentator that isn’t partisan have all said that division in the US was already well in train before Trump.

          Pew Research have plenty on it but I’m sure your TDS can’t see past Trump being a cause, when in reality, it can be seen that he’s a symptom.

          1. Nigel

            Well duh. People have been pointing out the legacy of slavery, opression and white supremacy in the US for a long time now, but I am being informed that pointing it out is worse than the tings themselves, so sorry, white supremacists and centrists who don’t like to be reminded of stuff.

          2. Clampers Outside

            Wtf, are you regressing in age and mentality now or what? You sound like a child Nigel :)

          3. Toby

            You wouldn’t have the balls to call out an actual supremacist. you’re too busy blaming much softer targets.Typical bullies picking on people weaker than themselves.

          4. Nigel

            Yes, far play to BLM for having the balls to stand up to heavily armed legally protected white supremacy.

            (The guy who sees Trump in with a chance of re-election promptly blamed ‘wokeness’ – speaking of cowards picking soft targets to blame.)

          5. Clampers Outside

            Yeah BLM, great bunch of white guys and gals calling black cops uneducated house n—-.
            No, not racist at all.

            BLM is a self declared Marxist socialist movement intent, as its mission states, on tearing down the traditional family and preety much giving the responsibility to the state for raising kids.
            BLM is a commie joke perpetrated on guilt trippin’ white liberals…. And it’s damn funny too :)

          6. Toby

            You’re not black Nigel. Stop trying to appropriate their rage or their cause. Stop weaponising their suffering to fuel your own sense of worthiness. They don’t need you turning more people against them with your slithery weasel words of compassion.

          7. Clampers Outside

            Don’t forget Nigel, according to one of the books of the woke, White Fragility, it is you who is the worst kind of racist going

            LOL!

          8. Clampers Outside

            That’s a supposition. Nothing more, and untrue.
            You regularly make such childish comments when someone doesn’t side with your beliefs in the like of antifa. It’s just silly.

      2. Daisy Chainsaw

        It’s not the “woke”, it’s the racists and the so called christians supporting a fellow racist. If you’re happy with racism and bigotry, Trump’s your man.

        1. Toby

          You’ve had 4 years of calling out racism and bigotry. Y9ou found it everywhere you looked. Deplatforming, canceling, censoring in a McCarthyite campaign of hateful identity poilitics. Hows it going for you? JK Rowling was a great example of the lunatic road the woke have led people down. The collateral damage of all this is Trump and the other far right leaders emerging.

          1. Nigel

            Yes, keep your head down, keep your opinions to yourself, don’t call out the bad stuff, don’t speak up, the reactionaries will come and get you and it’ll be your own fault! Apparently true freedom is the freedom to be racist, but not to actually criticise racism – that’s opression, and here’s a tear gas canister in the face to prove it.

          2. Toby

            Now you’re speaking like a true Antifa. You actually believe this stuff, you actually believe that your campaign of judging, shaming, canceling and correcting people is working? Or doing good? Or helping people?

            The woke are the single most divisive thing to happen to society in years. Your zealousness has caused a backlash from normal people who don’t like your judge mc judge face face.

          3. Daisy Chainsaw

            Them pesky women and darkies looking for the same rights and privileges as racist white men! They should know their place and shut up for the sake of “harmony”

          4. Nigel

            Yeah, for some people pointing out racism etc is as bad as racism etc. Not hiring people because of their race is more divisive than pointing out that people aren’t being hired because of their race. Shut up, in other words. Weird how your type never tell racists to stop being racists because it provokes a backlash of dreaded wokeness. ‘Don’t be racist or Judgy McJudgeface will make a judgy face at you! That’s way worse than authoritarian far right crooks in power!’ It’s not ‘the woke’ demanding that vote counting stop. That strikes me as pretty damn devisive, but what do I know?

          5. Toby

            Ah yes, using women and coloured people as your shield as usual. Nigel trying to hie behind the skirts of minorities. Cowardly and exploitative.

            See how much we care??? That gives us the right to judge everyone else from our privileged high chair. You are doing way more harm than good and you are not needed by anyone except the ego monster in your head.

            Not since Joe Duffy have I seen people trying to profit form the misery of others,.

          6. Nigel

            Profit from misery? You must be unaware of the private companies making vast profits enacting Trump’s family seperation and internment policies – but sorry if I’m being judgy about such awful behaviour, I might inadvertantly cause you to support it just by thinking it’s bad.

          7. Nigel

            Is that the conclusion you’ve come to after studying both sets of policies? Can you justify that conclusion?

        2. Clampers Outside

          “fellow racist”… You’re going to label all Christians racist, and expect to be taken seriously, and not seen as a person who engages in promoting further division… Yeah right, OK.

          1. Daisy Chainsaw

            Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. So called “christians”. Venal opportunists hiding behind a cloak of religion doing the very opposite of what Jesus preached, the type who want to ban abortion, but have a clinic on speed dial in case the mistress gets knocked up.

          2. Toby

            You mean proud atheists hiding behind a cloak compassion and kindness- while behaving like behavioural fascists condemn, blaming, canceling. Please go away,. you have been a horrible chapter in society. You have achieved only division and hatred.

          3. Toby

            No daisy. You use the oppressed to justify your own sense of superiority, Its what gives you licence to judge, Cos you’re doing it for the children, or the blacks, or whoever misery you chose to appropriate in your crusade of self righteousness. We don’t need you thanks.

          4. Nigel

            Inasmuch as I’d be doing it for anyone, beyond simply having my own opinions on these things and expressing them, I’d rather be doing it for them, however flawed I might be about it, than for Trump or his supporters.

  3. Otis Blue

    Some quality trolling from Russia…

    “It’s time for America to return to the politics of sanity, in which case we will always support it. It is high time.”

    Konstantin Kosachev, Chairman of the upper house Federation Council committee of foreign affairs.

  4. ce

    Running Biden, with a VP who got 2% of their party primary (and is a dreaded Californian!!!!), calling everybody racist (definitely plenty out there, but not everybody), and not really having anything to say other than “I’m not Trump” didn’t lead to a landslide… who da thunk!

    Biden is still likely (likely not certain) to win but if all the votes are actually counted (and that’s a bit of an ‘if’) Trump can still win relatively legit in the Electoral College… and this in the time of Covid!

    Democrats once again do a lot of virtue signaling and offer no well articulated ideas. Trump in a prickly guy without the ‘ly’ but guess what people freely vote for him… you might want to talk to them with a bit of humility and find out why.

    1. Toby

      Agreed, Kamala did not add one vote to Bidens campaign. More woke crap that no one wanted. Well 2%… but lets foist her on people cos diversity and inclusion and kindness blah blah

    2. SOQ

      Agreed ce- Trump used CoVid to his advantage by playing it down and presenting normality.

      Biden’s doom and gloom actually prevented some of his own voters from turning out to vote

    3. E'Matty

      “you might want to talk to them with a bit of humility and find out why”. Yup, but that isn’t going to happen. We have seen a clear trend towards demonising entire sections of populations (Brexit and Trump voters being notable large scale examples) these past few years for voting “the wrong way”. They were both dehumanised and simpilified into “Racist, redneck, male, old, white, christian, ignorant etc..”. This was led by the media and many in the political class and enthusiastically adopted by many who consider themselves progressive or liberal. When half of the population are just disregarded by the other half with no effort made to understand the underlying reasons for their opinions and positions, preferring instead to find solace in the above simplistic labels and bigoted stereotypes, how else was it going to turn out? There is not going to be a reconciliation I’m afraid. Further heightened emotions and polarisation with little to no common ground being identified by either side is the order of the day. Media is at the very core of this entire problem, driving the divisions and ever greater polarisation of societies. Watch them fan the flames over the coming days and weeks.

      1. Nigel

        This is completely false. The MSM bent over backwards, doing sypmathetic heartland pieces over and over again on Trump voters and Trump supporters. Apparently the rest of the country have to just put up with the fact that the other half cheerfully doubled down, voting for the corrupt racist misogynist who effectively killed 230,000 of their fellow citizens, while working to take away their health care and steal and supress their votes, but hey, no sympathy or understanding for them. Black and latinos and Native Americans and asians and women and the libs are all at fault for not reconciling with the people who voted for a man like that. The man even now working to invalidate their votes.

        Isn’t it odd that no-one criticises the Republicans for failing to make any headway into the extraordinary block of black voters that will not vote for them? They can’t all be liberals. Maybe they Republicans are not making an effort to understand their reasons or positions? Maybe between the police and the white militias and the Proud Boys and the Bogaloo Boys they feel demonised and threatened? Who’s feeding that polarisation? Couldn’t possibly be the Republicans!

        1. ce

          1. Because if you take the moral high ground you have further to fall, it’s not right, it’s not fair, but that’s how it is

          2. Trump is not a republican

          3. Sometimes those with the most to loose just want to drag everybody else down as a great f-u to both mainstream republican and democrats

          4. The black, asian, latino’s who do vote for Trump don’t want to see themselves as victims

          5. I could go on…. it’s not that people don’t know Republican have messed things up, but the Democrats can not articulate a way out and so better the devil you know or the devil the other side hates

          1. Nigel

            1. Rubbish.
            2. Rubbish.
            3. Trumpism is mainstream Republicanism.
            4. The ones who vote Democratic do want to be victims?
            5. They articulated a way out for enough voters for a record popular vote for Biden. The Republicans showed the rest of the country that they they want to drag them all deeper. Hard to see reconciliation with that.

          2. ce

            Think what you want, and by the way I would have voted for Biden, I think Trump is a despicable human being – but after many years living in the US, I’m sorry but that kind of how it is there/what I saw while living there… and maybe I’m wrong, but it looks like there’s no simple “Orange Man Bad” “Everybody is Racist” answer for what happened last night. While in the US I did see plenty of racism, in particular structural racism, but I saw so much liberal hypocrisy all day/everyday… and while liberal hypocrisy is not as morally problematic as racism, it will cause many a voter to resort to the nuclear options as a big f-u to everybody

            As for:

            3. Trumpism (isolationist capitalism) is mainstream Republicanism – yep, but it is not the Republican “Party”
            4. The ones who vote Democratic do want to be victims? – of course not – but people are often portrayed that way by establishment Democratic party, media, and institutions… and that rubs a number of folks the wrong way. What have Democrats done for minorities? What have Republican (Pre-Trump) done? What has Trump done? The answer to all three is not much, but pre-covid employment with minorities was at the highest level ever and the only way to survive in the US is employment, so a small but not insignificant minority of a minority vote Trump.

            And ultimately, Trump will likely loose… because of Covid, by a tiny margin given the circumstances, without it he would have walked the whole thing.

          3. Nigel

            As long as people go along with Republicans blaming everyone else, primarily Democrats, for when they vote, and then vote again, for someone like Trump, they’re just going to keep doing it. They’ve shown us who they are. Believe them.

  5. Tob

    Biden has lost.

    Now they try to scupper Trump’s win with BS – just like the failed Russia Russia and Impeachment efforts

      1. Nigel

        Insane, isn’t it? Biden is winning, millions of votes still to count, plenty of people called it as a close race and a long wait for the result, and yet Biden has also somehow lost already? Weird how it works, the perceived legitimacy of the left and the right. Trump’s narrow win after losing the popular vote led to radical right wing policies transforming the US. Even if he ends up winning the popular vote and the EC, Biden probably won’t even be able to pass a Covid relief bill, but is certainly going to be held responsible for the mess Trump leaves behind even as a narrowly Republican Senate and a packed SC block every effort to fix it. But… cancel culture, apparently?

        1. Junkface

          I don’t believe cancel culture has had a big effect on the election. Its more about cult behaviour, lies, and disinformation from Trump and the GOP. He has convinced the poor and working class farmers, auto workers, of many badly hit states that he has helped them, even though he failed to stop factories closing and the trade war with China killed the farming community. What we have here is a cult, no matter how bad things get for them, they will not leave Trump.

          The democrats have failed to really listen to the Black, Latino and working class communities. They should have easily won this, but they refuse to move a little more left, as in closer to Bernie Sanders or even Andrew Yangs thinking, Healthcare for all, lower student dept, UBI and some sort of Green new deal.

          1. deluded

            The problem is that the Democrats are not even remotely socialist. It would be like calling Fine Gael socialist because of the marriage or abortion referendums…

          2. Junkface

            I agree, but the young voters demographic of democrats are definitely into social democracy. They are ignoring them and failing to see the long game. The democrats like to pretend they are for fairness and sharing the wealth more, but in the senate they act a different way. Biden will never go for healthcare for all if he wins.

          3. Nigel

            I’m not so sure? Trump supporters aren’t so much typically working class as well-off, but not college educated. They’re hyper-individualistic and opposed to perceived versions of socialism that Genghis Khan would think were a bit hard-line. They do not regard Democrats as legitimate. In that sense, he is giving them exactly what they want. His lies and corruption are part of the game, getting one over on the media and the libs.

      2. Toby

        Hilarious with you guys finding new things to blame every five minutes. Don’t look too hard guys, the answer is under your judgemental noses. People will only take so much before striking back.

        1. Nigel

          When the long weary road of your life leads you to the point where you’re justifying authoritarianism, perhaps it is the time for some self-reflection?

          1. Toby

            Only authoritarians tell people what they can say or not say, what terms to use, who can speak and who should be canceled, what constitutes acceptable behaviour. Only authoritarians derive their authority from the twisted belief that its ok because they are on the side of right.

          2. Nigel

            Oh, I agree. I’ll stop saying stuff, behave more acceptably, as told to me by the people I might have previously criticised, and maybe they won’t elect a reactionary authoritarian hard-right government to punish me, thank you for setting me right, Toby.

      1. Cian

        Of the States that are finished counting Biden has a lead.

        But if you look at the States that aren’t finished counting – you can see that Trump is ahead in most.
        – Pennsylvania, with 75% of the votes counted (and 20 electoral votes) has Trump @55%
        – North Carolina, with 95% of the votes counted (and 15 electoral votes) has Trump @50.1% (to Boden’s 48.7%) ~60,000 votes ahead.
        – Georgia, with 92% of the votes counted (and 16 electoral votes) has Trump @50.5% (to Biden’s 48.3%) ~100,000 votes ahead

        It will be tight.

        1. Junkface

          Philadelphia still has 2 or 3 million uncounted votes, so if they are counted that would destroy Trumps lead in Penn.

          1. Junkface

            Early vote and absentee ballot counting was opposed by the GOP leading up to election day for 3 states. Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. All of the other states went ahead with early vote and absentee ballot counting. This is attempted voter suppression. This is what is causing the holdup and confusion in these states.

          2. Cian

            Pennsylvania has 2 or 3 million uncounted votes (not Philadelphia).

            Philadelphia is blue, but most of the rest of the state is red.
            currently Philadelphia County has (49% counted) Trump with 101K votes to Biden’s 290K
            Montgomery County (next door with 75% counted) Trump 160K to Biden;s 226K

            Biden might swing 300,000 in Philly… but Trump is 600,000 ahead in Penn. To little to late.

            (assuming the figures on foxnews are correct)

          3. Junkface

            Thanks for the correction. Yes Pennsylvania it was. So I just checked, Biden has won Winsconsin. Trumps lead is narrowing in Michigan, and most of the uncounted votes are from the suburbs, which usually favour Biden. So Biden might get Michigan too. Knife edge stuff

        2. george

          You’ve left out the Key states: Wisconsin and Michigan where technically Biden has inched ahead though basically it is neck and neck. Those 2 and Nevada an Biden has it.

          edit: Junkface, Biden hasn’t won Wisconsin. He is ahead by a whisker.

  6. Junkface

    I hope America is ready for a civil war, because that’s what Trump has started down the path of, that speech of his was completely undemocratic and wrong. There will be a huge court battle over Pennsylvania, who did he just push through to the supreme court? Oh right, Amy Comey Barrett. This will get very, very messy. Guns sales will go up again

    1. ce

      Not equivocating, but the flag burning has started too… going to be a long haul until January… and probably a long haul for the next 4 years regardless of who is declared winner

      1. Daisy Chainsaw

        Flag changing too. Mississippi State Flag now has a circle of stars around the state flower instead of the Confederate X. More wholesome and less racist.

          1. ce

            That’s because California is full of a bunch of “Orange Man Bad” Hypocrites … one of them was running for VP

          2. Nigel

            It’s because tech-bro libertarians gobdaws spent more on pushing the proposal than they would have spent paying their employees properly.

    2. v AKA Frilly Keane

      Trump took PA and its 20 EC votes with over 55%
      up from 48% v Hillary
      That’s pretty conclusive

      And with all the talk
      and the this and thats
      And he’s horrible, and people who vote for him are horrible

      Biden
      So far, has only managed to flip one State
      One

      1. Cian

        In Pennsylvania in 2016 Trump got (2,970,733) 48.2% compared to Clinton’s (2,926,441) 47.5%

        At the moment we have Trump with (2,969,504) 55.1% to Biden’s (2,350,664) 43.6%.

        But there are still almost 2 million uncounted votes – a lot of these are in the (democrat-strong) cities.

        It will end up a lot closer to the 2016 results…

        1. Cian

          President Trump leads by nearly 700,000 votes in Pennsylvania as of 5 a.m. on Wednesday, and Mr. Biden’s chances depend on whether he can win a large percentage of the more than 1.4 million absentee ballots that remain to be counted.

          So far, Mr. Biden has won absentee voters in Pennsylvania, 78 percent to 21 percent, according to the Secretary of State’s office. The results comport with the findings of pre-election surveys and an analysis of absentee ballot requests, which all indicated that Mr. Biden held an overwhelming lead among absentee voters.

          If Mr. Biden won the more than 1.4 million absentee votes by such a large margin, he would net around 800,000 votes — enough to overcome his deficit statewide.

          https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/upshot/biden-pennsylvania-election-ballots.html

      2. george

        Trump hasn’t taken Pennsylvania. Only 65% of votes are counted.

        Biden only needs to flip two more states to win.

        Two.

  7. f_lawless

    Seems like a Trump victory won’t be permitted either way. Events can’t be allowed to unfold naturally. It’s all pre-simulated political theatre

    https://unlimitedhangout.com/2020/09/investigative-reports/bipartisan-washington-insiders-reveal-their-plan-for-chaos-if-trump-wins-the-election/

    ‘..the fact that a group of openly pro-Biden Washington insiders and former government officials (aka the ‘Transition Integrity Project’) have gamed out scenarios for possible election outcomes and their aftermath, all of which either ended with Biden becoming president or a constitutional crisis, suggest that powerful forces influencing the Biden campaign are pushing the former Vice President to refuse to concede the election even if he loses..

    In the TIP’s “clear Trump win” scenario (see page 17), Joe Biden retracted his election night concession and subsequently convinced “three states with Democratic governors – North Carolina, Wisconsin and Michigan – to ask for recounts.” Then, the governors of Wisconsin and Michigan “sent separate slates of electors to counter those sent by the state legislature” to the Electoral College, which Trump had won, in an attempt to undermine, if not prevent, that win.

    Next, “the Biden campaign encouraged Western states, particularly California but also Oregon and Washington, and collectively known as “Cascadia,” to secede from the Union unless Congressional Republicans agreed to a set of structural reforms:…the creation of what essentially amounts to having the U.S. by composed 56 states, with the new states set to ensure a perpetual majority for Democrats… Also notable is the fact that, in this simulation, the TIP blamed the Trump campaign for the Democrats’ decision to take the “provocative, unprecedented actions”..

    The “clear Trump win” election simulation ended with no president-elect being inaugurated on January 20, with the TIP noting “it was unclear what the military would do in this situation.” ..’

    1. Nigel

      ‘Trump won’t be wllowed to win’

      He’s declared victory and wants the counting to stop – that must be very concerning for you, but I understand this abstract bit of political gaming which is in no way indicated to be Biden’s actual plan in the case of defeat is the real worry.

    1. Charlie

      Donald 3/1 now Charger. Perfect opportunity for you to “ lump on” some more and get that extra cash for the Christmas cans.

  8. Eoin

    Can’t believe that many people actually voted for a corrupt career politician suffering from dementia. Well done mainstream media.

    1. Cian

      The choice was either a corrupt career politician suffering from dementia or a corrupt career TV personality suffering from dementia.

      1. Nigel

        The choice was a corrupt radical right-wing anti-science authoritarian who regards laws as things to constrain others and protect himself who is dismantling public health care, stripping environmental protections and taking away abortion rights, against a centre-left pro-choice career politician popular across the racial divides who wants to improve public access to health care thinks action needs to be taken on climate change, and may be open to structural electoral and financing reform. It’s like they’re identical mirror images or something.

        1. bisted

          …would that be the career politician who served as vice-president in an administration that bombed 8 countries and displaced millions or the one who didn’t start any new wars?

        2. v AKA Frilly Keane

          Pity they didn’t run that “centre-left pro-choice career politician popular across the racial divides who wants to improve public access to health care thinks action needs to be taken on climate change” back in 2016

          The last four years could have done with someone like that in the Whitehouse
          Especially this year with the increased demand for access to health care

          And with what Greta started n’ all

          1. Nigel

            I think it’s more of a pity the other crowd ran the corrupt radical right-wing anti-science authoritarian who regards laws as things to constrain others and protect himself who is dismantling public health care, stripping environmental protections and taking away abortion rights, myself.

          2. Charger Salmons

            One thing’s for sure – the poor and ethnic minorities care more about their jobs being sold out to China and lawlessness on the streets than they do about white middle class university graduates tearing down statues in their name.
            The next four years of Lame Duck Biden legitimising BLM/Antifa and backing their calls to defund the police are going to be a joy to watch.
            Trump has proved to be a bigger upset in 2020 than he was in 2016.
            He’s going nowhere except back in four years time.

          3. Nigel

            Salmon – since last time Biden was in power after the Republicans made another godawful mess, he helped lead the country to an economic recovery (quickly squandered by Trump) even with a non-co-operative Senate, so perhaps they’re more clued in than you are.

  9. Dr.Fart

    mad country. they’ll vote trump back in. and if they don’t, its not the end of him, or what he’s started.

  10. ian-oh

    If Trump gets back in, Boris will be emboldened to tear up the Good Friday Agreement.

    But hey, he owned the libs and that is way more important than stability over here, isn’t it?

    1. goldenbrown

      amazed there hasn’t (that I’ve heard so far) been any examination of this vista in all the navel gazing so far today ian-oh, I think you’re 110% correct

      sadly it looks quite possible that I’m going to get to collect on my €50 @6/4

      IF that comes to pass and additionally Dems fail to get the Senate back (which seems equally possible) I think the world that has been sucking on the teat of the US FDI for years (like ourselves) is in for a rough ride and yes for starters himself and Bojo are going to ride each other and we and the EU are in a whole heap of trouble

      the only +ve I have on all of this is that maybe finally now we can wake up, dump this apple pie notion that the US is a good global actor because this IS the attitude of a large American public, they DO endorse Trumpism and 4 years ago was no accident

      1. Junkface

        The Senate is tied right now at 47 to 47. According to Foxnews, BBC, its looking more like Biden will take Michigan. Biden has pretty much won Winsconsin by 20,000 votes. A new record.

  11. daveo

    i wonder if donald can make all these challenges on his own if election doesnt go his way. or does he need backing of the republican party. if the latter, they might not want to waste time and money if little chance of success.

    id say deep down the Donald doesnt want to win. he can attend dinners, play golf, no pressure.

    1. Rosette of Sirius

      It’s Trump TV for him… he will make out like a bandit and build up the kitty to try and deal with the crippling debts he’s stuck with.

      1. george

        Can’t see it working for him. The only topic he likes talking about is how great he is. Unless he thinks he can run again in 2024 (can he?) I don’t see how he can sustain a TV programme about politics.

        1. Nigel

          Apparently if he loses Deutsche Banke are going to foreclose on some ridiculously massive debt he’s personally liable for. (Possibly even if he doesn’t lose.)

        2. Cian

          I don’t think there is anything stopping a one-term president going forward for a second term (multiple attempts)

        3. Rosette of Sirius

          If he loses, yes he can run again. There’s a couple of options as I see it.

          He buddies up with an existing network like OAN. More likely tho is Sinclair. They have the infrastructure, reach, connections and target demographic to support that ambition.

          He needs a way to make money and fast. The demands to pay off the crippling debt to keep his existing assets financed are looming.

    2. george

      I’d say he wants to win alright. Lawsuits are lined up against him on various issues and as ordinary citizen he’ll have to deal with them.

  12. Nigel

    By the way, Bodger, whoever wins, since you’re having at the polls, anything on Trump supporters and others who predicted a massive win for Trump, and even a 50-state red sweep? How on earth did they get it so wrong? Is it time for them to do some soul searching? How did they manage to lose or fail to win so many black and latino and white and asian voters? Working class voters, too, across the board went for Biden. Are the Republicans out of touch? Elitist? Are their policies alienating and dividing? They treat so many citizens as terrorists and criminals while supporting heavily armed militia on the streets – is it possible this was a serious misjudgement on their part? Did they adress Americans’ economic anxieties? Did so many ordinary Americans reject their efforts to force their morality and values down their throats? Who can say? Serious questions i’m sure we will be endlessly chewing over for aages!

  13. Charger Salmons

    Well it looks like Biden at this stage.
    Remarkable effort by Trump who has added at least three million more votes to his 2016 tally.
    Good luck to the lame-duck President Biden.
    A Republican Senate,a packed Supreme Court and four more years of BLM/Antifa turning Democrat-controlled cities into No Go areas ?
    Trump isn’t going anywhere.
    He’ll be back.

    1. Nigel

      Yeah, congratulations incumbent one-term Trump for (probably) losing, pulling the usual Republican trick of leaving an enormous mess for a Democrats to clean up.

    2. Charlie

      “Remarkable effort by Trump” Ahaaa…You’re a hoot. Paddy Power just called and said you can have that £2 back with some free pie.

    3. Rosette of Sirius

      For an *incumbent* President it’s an unmitigated disaster even if he managed to scrape his way out of this. I’m of course only referring to his campaign and his efforts.

      It’s an undeniable truth that the Senate will most likely remain red and of course there’s SCOTUS… That’s not my point.

      My point is, again, for an incumbent president to have to engage in such a mauling is a disaster.

          1. Nigel

            You’d think you’d be more concerned about the supression and the ‘losses’ and the invalidation, then. You’d think everyone who got wound up about democracy after the DNC scandal in 2016 would be really wound up about it. But they’re not, as far as I can see.

          2. bisted

            …I really know little about US politics…I was there once during an election and was fascinated by the way they elected everyone from sherrifs to school governers…but…you have a problem with democracy…if it’s not your democracy then it’s not democracy…I think you are confusing democrat with democracy…

  14. f_lawless

    All the comments have yet to be tallied in Broadsheet’s 2020 US Presidential Election post, but at this point it’s safe to say we have a front runner leagues ahead of the rest. His level of comment turn out is just astounding. Earlier accusations of commenter fraud have since been discredited. It really is just one guy. :P

  15. Charger Salmons

    Another race to the bottom here on BS.
    Nigel has surpassed the record for the number of posts in one day without a ‘ comfort break ‘.
    Beating GiggidyGoo by a handsome margin.
    Although the 3-5am primary still remains an open contest…

    1. Oro

      In fairness you comment on every single article, and often it’s just talking to nobody (as here) or also replying to yourself (groan!). I know projection is the order of the day on anonymous online forums but maybe be a little more rigorous.

  16. Joe F

    Where has ‘Nostradamus’ Salmons disappeared to??
    Hope not too many people took up on his suggestion of putting late money on Trump!!
    Stay away from predictions clown man, stick to what you’re good at (not sure what that is exactly).
    Marvellous indeed.

  17. f_lawless

    Voter fraud shenanigans in Wisconsin?

    https://twitter.com/OffGuardian0/status/1324068628128555009

    A late-night CNN clip of the moment when Biden gets 130,000+ instantly while every other candidate’s tally remains unchanged. The dumbfounded presenters start to look uncomfortable. Big chunks may get updated at a time – seems plausible – but every single one of those votes going to just one candidate doesn’t sound right. Anyone?

    1. Rosette of Sirius

      Fact-checked as untrue. But then in imaginationland…. imaginationland…. oooo. Imaginationland….

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