Ivor Cummins (left) and Prof. Gerry Killeen

Last Night.

Ivor Cummins responds to leaked correspondence from members of the Independent Science Advocacy Group (ISAG), including several from Professor Gerry Killeen, of the School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences at University College Cork, who suggested taking a hurley stick to ‘Slippery Snake’ Mr Cummins.

FIGHT!

Last night: Thursday’s Papers

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122 thoughts on “Taking Stick

  1. Broadbag

    I’ll just copy my recent copy from the other thread pushing this charlatan:

    Ivor is a snake oil salesman preying on the easily led for personal gain, he has been proven wrong time and again with his nonsense predictions and only the most dim-witted continue to follow his guff spoutage.

    1. Bitnboxy

      +100000000000000

      The classic Paytriot.

      I’ll tell yiz all something for nothing but this pandemic has unleashed a plague of narcissistic nincompoops keen to make a quick and grifty buck by calibrating their flimflam machine to warp speed.

      1. Johnny

        (Over the last decade the health service has consistently received supplementary funding, this is funding in addition to its original Budget allocation.)

  2. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    Ivor is a complete fraud. His twitter is full of like-minded egits. Poor bloke has scientists talking about him. I am certain I could trawl the Fat Egits twitter and find lots of attacks on people who criticise him. This egit should have no platform. If he thinks it is not real, he can go to ICU. I listened to a minute of the Thursday paper video – utter tosh. As I have been saying, I will continue to listen to scientists, not to project managers.

  3. Brother Barnabas

    [as broadbag -]

    i didn’t read that at all the same as IC and JR – specifically the line “Let’s also consider the possibility of a set up with a rigged presenter etc”

    this was ger killeen – who i don’t know from adam – discussing his reluctance to debate with IC. the stated reason for his reluctance was that he doesn’t have “the skills to deal with all the statistical smoke and mirrors” that IC would throw at him. and then the next line is “Let’s also consider the possibility of a set up with a rigged presenter etc”

    key here is the adverb “also”

    he’s not suggesting they get a rigged set up – he’s further listing his concerns that, in addition to being bombarded with “statistical smoke and mirrors”, there is also the possibility of a “set-up with a rigged presenter”

    there is further credence to this interpretation in the next line where he expresses concern that he may be “exploited”

      1. Brother Barnabas

        as Broadbag said:
        March 11, 2021 at 11:05 am
        “I’ll just copy my recent copy from the other thread pushing this charlatan:”

        i’m doing the same – copying comment from other thread

        (the level of paranoia on BS these days is bizarre)

          1. Brother Barnabas

            look down, ben

            see those pants you’re wearing?

            I MADE you choose them. mind control. prove me wrong.

          2. Clampers Outside

            Ben has no trousers.

            See his bum there in frame four of the Where’s Wally post…
            .
            .
            .
            (only messin’ Ben. I bet you’ve a lovely pair of balls-impression-tight skinny jeans on.)

          3. Brother Barnabas

            i dont mean to be unkind, ben, but you obviously haven’t seen how things look from behind – like two mozzarellas squeezed into a balloon. it was a hasty choice – i’ll take your alarming steatopygia into account tomorrow.

          4. benblack

            @Clampers

            I recognised my body part immediately and then recognised other familiar characters.

            Stranger than fiction, unless, it’s a comic.

  4. yupyup

    My biggest problem with Killeen’s message is his use of the word ‘hurley’….ffs Ger, it’s a hurl….and this guy calls himself a professor ;)

    1. GiggidyGoo

      An anonymous twitter account – jeez Cian, have you stooped that low?

      There was just once, when a person named Simon Harris (who dropped out of 3rd Level education) informed us about ‘the other 18 Covids’.

      That person was Health Minister.

      Now, who to take more notice of?

      1. Anti Bots

        Good man Goo or Bodger, always critic the govt (our voted govt not the one you have in the north) or the Guards. Never address the issue. Euro or shilling. Go on address the issue.

  5. eoin

    Yeah Ivor is such a fraud that everyone is scared to debate him on his stance regarding covid19. I’m so tired of listening to morons chime in with their ill informed, idiotic opinions. If Ivor is so full of it, get him on TV for a debate and destroy his argument in public. This stuff is important. The state is now moving into a position where they can force you to take an experimental ‘vaccine’. A vaccine from the same industry that brought you oxycontin. Heroin in a pill. But we can trust them this time. Right? It doesn’t matter if this is an elixir of youth they’re forcing on you, state has no right to force a drug into your body. And people are just fine with this? Nice world people are creating for their kids.

    1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

      If Ivor is still saying Sweden is the way to go, you know he is wrong. He is not worth debating. Why give him publicity? He has nothing to teach me or anyone else. It is all rubbish. These people are actual scientists and are on the ball (or sliotar) : https://www.burnet.edu.au/covid-19

      1. E'Matty

        Sweden has a lower fatality rate than us when population age profile is taken into account but let me guess, the important people on the telly and radio told you Sweden is terrible, right? Any comparison not taking account of the size of the over 65 population is irrelevant. Age is the single greatest determinant of effect and outcome in respect of Covid.

        As of March 1st, approximately 92.5% of deaths in Ireland were in the over 65 age range. I can’t find more recent figures, but in November 2020, of the 133 deaths among people aged 25-64, 87 per cent (116) had underlying conditions. More than 93 per cent of people who died with coronavirus in the State had an underlying condition.

        Sweden sees approximately 95% of its deaths in the over 65s.

        Clearly, for both countries, it has been the over 65s hardest hit by Covid. If we then compare both country’s fatality rate and factor in the over 65 populations levels, we see Ireland with a worse fatality rate than Sweden.

        Sweden, population – 10 million. Over 65 – 20%. Total population – 2 million. Over 65 pop – Deaths – 13,003. Fatality rate – 0.65%.

        Ireland, population – 4.9 million. Over 65 – 13.32%. Total population- 652k. Deaths – 4,405. Fatality rate – 0.68%.

        93% of 4405 deaths, 4096/652K = 0.628% Ireland
        95% of 13003 deaths, 12,352/2m = 0.6176% Sweden

        Sweden actually better than us despite not imposing anything like the widespread authoritarian restrictions we have imposed.

          1. E'Matty

            more so, the virus impact is determined by the number of elderly people you have in the vulnerable category as opposed to any lockdown measures, which clearly have no great beneficial impact. The comparison between California and Florida recently evidenced this same reality.

        1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

          Because Gates funds actual medical research, not ignorant project managers.

    2. Brother Barnabas

      ‘The state is now moving into a position where they can force you to take an experimental vaccine’

      is this like the time the state would soon be forcing everyone into gay marriage ?

    3. millie bobby brownie

      “Yeah, Ivor is such a fraud that everyone is scared to debate him…”

      “If Ivor is so full of it, get him on TV…”

      That’s giving airtime to someone who neither has the expertise nor the understanding to debate with any kind of authority on a viral pandemic, someone who is deliberately pushing nonsense and conspiracy as ‘alternative facts’ and ‘hidden narrative’ (or whatever bolloxology takes your fancy) to his audience. So no.

        1. Nigel

          Ivor could be the best debater in the whole entire history of the world, and he’d still be wrong.

      1. Micko

        Ah in fairness now Millie there’s been a whole host of people on TV that would not be “experts” talking about it. Every single politician for one.

        Sure yer man from Gript.ie was on Primetime last week – is he an expert?

        I’m not a fan of Ivor, but he has a big following, so it would be good to let him debate. Just to see how it would turn out.

        If there’s space in RTE’s busy TV schedule for Luke O’Neil to roll around in a giant hamster ball, (for some frickin reason) then there’s ample time to let Ivor on to debate his points.

        1. millie bobby brownie

          Ah now Micko, in fairness, politicians frequently weigh in on topics they know sfa about, as well as being appointed to ministerial positions they are massively underqualified to hold (eg. Simon Harris) simply because they are an elected official and public representative. That doesn’t mean that they should be given airtime to spout their views, but in many cases because they are a public official they do. I certainly don’t think Ivor deserves a chance to debate his position just because he has a decent following on youtube.

          As for that embarrassing fluff piece facilitated by RTÉ and Luke O’Neill, well it certainly wasn’t received well and made Luke O’Neill look even more of a media luvvie than he already is. But he is a scientist, and has a better foundational understanding of the virus than the average person on the street and that of Ivor.

          1. Micko

            Dunno Millie. Does a large following on social media mean you have a right for your opinion to nee heard on state broadcasters?

            If you look at any article on the Indo or IT Facebook pages on Covid – the vast majority of comments are Anti-lockdown. I didn’t used to be that way. People are sick of it now.

            As I’ve said before, when the people against lockdown reaches 51% – does it just become the “will of the people”?

          2. millie bobby brownie

            Of course people are sick of lockdown Micko. I’ve yet to meet someone who said it was an enjoyable experience. It goes against human nature, to be cooped up, to be unsocial in the ways we have done over the past year.

            People have supported lockdown, which is different imo, because it means people are abiding by it for the greater good, so to speak. No one actively chooses to restrict their movements to this degree for this length of time without good reason.

            And no, I don’t think being popular on SM entitles you to spout off your personal beliefs as fact. Which is precisely my point about Ivor.

          3. Brother Barnabas

            most people are also against taxation – hate it with a passion

            should we scrap it ?

          4. Micko

            Both my Brothers in Law LOVED the first two lockdowns. Both were commuting almost 48 hours a month into the office. Both are still on full pay, in semi-state companies doing very little from home. (their words, not mine) ;)

            They’re not big fans of the lockdown now though.

            The thing about people like Ivor and John McGuirke, is that love them or hate them – they are independent.

            No one can fire them, no one can cancel them.

            We all saw the public punishment beating that Dr Martin Feely received when he dared to stand up and say he disagreed with the restrictions.

            My own GP is of the same mind as Dr Feely – but there is NO way he would say anything after what happen to Feely.

            We need independent peoples voices heard. Even if we think they are spouting rubbish.

          5. Nigel

            ‘No one can fire them, no one can cancel them.’

            So they’re unaccountable. They can say any old guff so long as they frame it to build their social media platform and then demand higher and better platforms to preach from with no regard to the susbstance of their claims.

            How anyone in these days can value the supposed independence of a speaker OVER whether the speaker is spouting rubbish, I have no idea. It’s utterly at odds with what the world needs right now.

            The first thing any snake-oil salesman will do is expend gallons of digital ink or YouTube playtime declaiming their independence. Then their martyrdom by the so-called elites and MSM. It’s standard boilerplate grifting method. It has no value whatsoever.

          6. benblack

            They’re on the run now, Micko.

            The reaction, albeit predictable, is nonetheless nonsensical.

            Alliteration fans only.

          7. Cian

            “We need independent peoples voices heard. Even if we think they are spouting rubbish.”

            @Micko, Can I ask you a question:
            “Do we need independent peoples voices heard if they *are* spouting rubbish.”

            Does having an “independent voice” trump truth or facts?

          8. Micko

            How does one speak out against the restrictions?

            Hmmm…

            You can be

            a) A state expert and employee and when you say what you really think about the restrictions, you get canned from the job and used as a warning to any other employees who might think the same. “Shhh… look what happened to Martin.”

            or

            b) A private citizen who says what they think and then is told their opinion doesn’t matter coz “you’re not an expert”

            How the hell is anyone supposed to challenge the narrative on lockdowns?

            Oh wait – you’re not..

          9. Micko

            Cian, what people think is “rubbish” is subjective.

            15 million views on Ivor’s YT channel and 120K followers on Twitter will tell ya there is an appetite for what he says – right or wrong.

            I’ve heard some whacko opinions on things here on BS that I think are total rubbish, but I wouldn’t be calling for a person to be deplatformed.

            Anyway – same question to you. Did Martin Feely deserve his punishment?

          10. Nigel

            Who the actual hell in this day and age thinks truth is measured in YouTube figures? Or that the distinction between ‘right ot wrong’ is immaterial?

            Too many bloody people do, and if Martin Feely was one of them I wish him well on his future lucrative YouTube endeavours.

          11. Nigel

            ‘The truth has no need for facts’

            This may have been an actual slogan used by either Trump or the Leave campaign, can’t remember which.

          12. Micko

            I never said “truth” was subjective Nigel.

            I said what people “believe to be rubbish” is subjective.

            “and if Martin Feely was one of them ”

            Would ya go away with that – don’t pretend you don’t know who Dr Martin Feely is or what he said.

            Did Martin Feely deserve the punishment he received?

          13. Nigel

            On the contrary they are entirely compatible, and whoever says otherwise is trying to deny some humans their rights.

          14. Nigel

            ‘I said what people “believe to be rubbish” is subjective.’

            No. Not really. Lots of people bleieving rubbish is fairly common and often easy to spot, sometimes not so easy. Famously so.

            Honestly can’t remember the details of the Feely thing and I have no idea what it has to do with your weird contention that lots of peple believeing in rubbish is somehow a good thing? Even if Feely was horribly mistreated, it doesn’t make Ivor Cummins right just because he has YouTube views.

          15. Micko

            Really. You don’t remember who Feely is? Hmmm… sure

            Ok then;

            Is it right for a government employee who voices their negative opinion on lockdowns to be fired from their position?

            And when things like that happen, is it any wonder that more gov employees don’t speak up.

            Probably why there’s a need for people like Cummins

          16. Nigel

            It might well be, actually, a prominent individual publicly breaking ranks in the middle of a public health crisis. Still has NOTHING to do with this idea that:

            ‘We need independent peoples voices heard. Even if we think they are spouting rubbish.’

            Independent voices spouting rubbish may be somehting we have to live with, but we sure as heck don’t NEED to hear them.

          17. Micko

            So how do you oppose something you think is wrong?

            If you’re a state employee they just get rid of you as a warning to others.

            If you’re a private citizen they say “you’re not an expert”

            If you protest, they say you’re “a murderer”

            So just shut the fupp up and take what the government gives you.

            Don’t question anything – you’re not smart or qualified enough to give your opinion. And if you go and protest, we’ll label you as pariahs and ridicule you on the national broadcaster.

            The perfect trap

            Looks like anonymously complaining on the internet it is so! Joy! ;)

          18. Nigel

            Youre just whining because you can’t get enough people to agree with you, you can’t find any credible experts to back you up, and the health service is taking the cirisis seriously enough not to allow its employees to publicly undermine its efforts. Nobody’s stopping you from questioning anything, they just don’t find you persuasive, and your protests only get attention when they’re infiltrated by violent yobs. It sucks, but you’re just not in tune with the national mood or the scientific consensus or the political strategy, all more or less united, if not happy, if not always pulling their weight.

            I don’t want to be mean, but the fact that you spend so much time whining about how unfair it all is, suggests, well, that that’s all you’re doing about it. Which is fine.

          19. Micko

            Oooh Nigel.

            I wish I had the balls to tell you who I was. But I’m afraid that I’d lose my shirt because of it. Cancelled and all that. ;)

            Let me tell you though, I work with several business owners, one of which has just completed interviews with two major Irish media outlets today giving out about how lockdown has effected their business and interests.

            All pro bono work right now as well on our side.

            So, while I may be posting here. Let me assure you – I am VERY much doing everything I can to try to stop this madness.

          20. Nigel

            Interviews with two major Irish media outles?

            ‘So just shut the fupp up and take what the government gives you. Don’t question anything – you’re not smart or qualified enough to give your opinion. And if you go and protest, we’ll label you as pariahs and ridicule you on the national broadcaster.’

            Hmm. I hope you or your clients or whatever didn’t take up too much of your major irish media interviews with whining about how you’re being silenced and treated as pariahs. That’s just dead air.

          21. Micko

            Nah. It’s all very business like of course. All about biz rents mounting, evictions, biz closing permanently, letting staff go and all that.

            I’m a professional don’t ya know!

            The pariah bit is my own – I wouldn’t let the psycho inside me out to the media. Are ya mad! ;)

            I play the game, just like anyone else.

          22. Nigel

            I don’t think getting interviews with major media companies is something you could actually do if they were actually treating you like a pariah, so I think you’re nurturing a poorly justified sense of greivance.

          23. benblack

            You both realise this is like reading two bots go at it, right?

            You should know better, Micko – well, at least I thought you should.

          24. Micko

            I know Ben.

            I know… help. I think I need help.

            “Must get last word… in. Can’t help myself” :-)

          25. benblack

            Don’t beat yourself up too much, Micko – Nigel will take up the slack – deservedly so.

    4. Daisy Chainsaw

      Ivor belongs in a category with Flat Earthers, 5G’rs, chemtrailers, adrenechrome drinkers, Dee Wall, Gemma O’D, Waters etc.

      1. benblack

        You forgot about the surreptitious capturing and converting of raw image data from a wide range of devices.

        1. Daisy Chainsaw

          Oh sweetie, so nice that I’ve taken up residence in your head. I’ll be putting in a fabulous chaise longue to lounge on because there’s so much space where your brain should be.

      2. Paula

        Your comment is despicable.
        Ivor Cummins is one of the few people in this sorry country to speak the truth. He has a worldwide proven track record in understanding and explaining science and his integrity is flawless.
        Your ignorance is astonishing but explains why so many people are allowing our country to be demolished under their noses and still can’t see what’s going on.
        Wake the hell up!

  6. ce

    Dangerous fraud called out with slightly inappropriate remark… I think I’m going to side with the person who has extensive and direct experience with epidemics and pandemics on this one, rather than listen to the diet book salesman

    Anybody got a link to Dermot Morgan doing Angry Young Man with a Hurley?

  7. pixel_pimp

    Johnny/Broadsheet – that was ill-advised. I jumped randomly through the 53mins of the clip and out of 10 samples, Ivor was talking in nine of them – thats not forensic probing of his poistion. It’s hardly even “journalism”.

    It’s platforming.

    And I’m done with this poo.

    I’ll be happy to lend effort to advise the your sponsors of how their ads are being displayed alongside platforming of covid deniers like this one. Too many people have died of this disease and countless thousands more suffer on daily in order for you to cash in on their sufferring with a smug assumption that it’s OK.

    You might also want to read the AUP on hosting.ie.

      1. Brother Barnabas

        what of it, ben?

        benblack is a relatively recent name – but a long established presence

        1. benblack

          I’m done with you, BB.

          Your deductive reasoning capabilities should be a criminal offence, or, is a consequence and punishment for previous criminal activities.

    1. Micko

      The pixel lad above is warning John that he should read the ‘Acceptable Use Policy’ on his website hosting and that he would let his advertisers know that he’s cashing in on peoples suffering.

      Basically threatening to interfere with his ability to run his biz, feed himself, roof over head etc etc

      Yup. Totally normal behaviour…

  8. benblack

    I’m done with you, BB.

    Your deductive reasoning capabilities should be a criminal offence, or, is a consequence and punishment for previous criminal activities.

    1. Micko

      Well, I meant “independent” from the point of view that he can’t be fired for his unpopular opinions.

      Interesting that both he and Ronan Mullens are speaking out against lockdowns and calling out the ISAG.

      Two universally hated men for their opinions on abortion and religion.

      Like Ivor, they don’t seem to care who hates them and continue to say what they want.

      I find that interesting alright… they have nothing left to lose

      Maybe they should start their own ‘Fight Club’ ;)

      1. ian-Og

        Not sure Micko, if John started going on about how we should make abortion services more easily available or that gay marriage has actually worked out quite well would he find himself facing “cancel culture” from his backers?

        As a matter of fact he is a very big fan of the creators of the original cancel culture, the catholic church who even “cancelled “people in the next life via excommunication.

        Him speaking the things his employers/funders want to say doesn’t exactly make him independent.

        1. Micko

          Hey – that’s a good point Ian.

          He probably would lose his employment / backers.

          I’m sure we won’t find out as he’s a bit of a religious zealot from what people tell me. I don’t know much about the lad – only what I saw on Primetime the other week. Which I liked ;)

          But we could say the same about Martin Feeley – which really is the crux of this thing for me.

          I can’t get my head around how someone could be fired for their expert medical opinion and everyone is just fine with that.

          Especially as he was a senior HSE doctor – an expert.

          But the wrong kind of expert… I find it very worrying. I don’t like groupthink.

          Which is why I defend Ivor – even though I don’t really like his content and he’s not an expert.

          If it’s an expert going against the regulations – then they just get rid of you.

          Very troubling.

  9. K.Cavan

    The ISAG shower are an absolute joke, one of them predicted a death rate from the virus that, so far, has proven to be a mere 90% wrong, while Cummins predicted deaths would follow the Gompertz Curve, which is the gold standard for predicting virus progression. ISAG are liars, intent on scaring the shit out of people with disinformation & fake news, anyone who defends or supports them needs immediate professional help.

    1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

      ISAG – you mean people with qualifications, as opposed to a bloke who wants to make a living out of being a contrarian. He preys on the vulnerable. I’ll stick with actual epidemiologists.

      1. Daisy Chainsaw

        Could die if we didn’t take the steps we did. Like Y2K could have seen planes fall from the sky if programmers didn’t sort it out in advance.

      2. j9

        @Micko It doesn’t really seem silly at all – seeing as he meant this could be the outcome if government took no action to mitigate the spread of the virus. I’ll continue to listen to qualified experts. You seem happy to listen to grifters and right wing commentators – which is your right. Good day to you.

      3. Anon E Mouse

        That article makes it clear that McConkey is speaking about a worst case scenario. The words “worst case scenario” are literally there. A worst case scenario is one where we did nothing and the disease is allowed run riot.

        This is a prediction that was made last March before we even had one lockdown. A year later, despite all the lockdowns we’ve had and the collective effort we’ve made, we’ve still had 4,500 deaths.

        So can you honestly say he’s wildly wrong to have predicted that level of death in a scenario where we didn’t make the huge effort of the past year?

        I can’t figure out if people who take these early worst case scenario figures and attempt to twist them to undermine qualified experts are thick, acting in bad faith, or a bit of both.

        And Broadsheet – do better than platforming charlatans like Ivor.

  10. Cui Bono?

    Ivor’s been spot on for most of the last year.

    Lots of talk about him being debunked but it’s always ad hominem or strawman arguments and never ever any actual debunking.

    Most of his critics are too lazy to look at both sides of the “debate” to critically assess it or maybe they’re too afraid of finding out that they’ve been fooled.

    The raw data doesn’t lie. Sweden had nowhere near 85,000 covid deaths last year.

  11. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    Ivor is full of it. Leave it to the epidemiologists. I am in Melbourne. The long lockdown worked – it worked in conjunction with closed borders. Ireland could do the same – harder but could be done if only there was strong leadership.

    1. benblack

      Antipodeans usually get it the wrong way round.

      Fecking penal colony – loving that word play, sport.

    2. Cui Bono?

      He’s only sharing the raw data. Many epidemiologists are saying they same as he is.

      The big news that everyone needs to look at it is – It looks like you got covid in Australia and New Zealand in your winter 2019. Almost 11,000 excess deaths in 2019 in Australia.

      You had a massive ‘flu’ epidemic before the world “officially” got covid.

        1. Cui Bono?

          You should go and look at the official data on Total Deaths in 2019 in Australia and compare it to previous years. There was a spike in winter 2019 with 11,000 excess deaths.

          There’s no need to waste time reading articles, just go to the raw data.

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