Wales First Minister Mark Drakeford has rowed back on men-only curfews

This afternoon.

Welsh first minister Mark Drakeford today insisted he wouldn’t consider bringing in local curfews for men to make women feel safer on the streets at night – after suggesting they could be used in a “crisis”.

He clarified there is no intention of ever introducing a ban on men going out in the evening, just hours after leaving the door open to such “dramatic action” if necessary.

Anyone?

Wales is ‘not considering’ curfews for men insists Mark Drakeford – after suggesting they could be used in a ‘crisis’ (The Sun)

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53 thoughts on “Curfuffle

    1. Brother Barnabas

      or, failing that, all men need to take responsibility for tackling what’s a really real issue and problem

      1. Junkface

        What do you actually mean by this, in practice? I thought that it would be painfully obvious that if a man saw weird or troubling behavior from a friend or family member they would let people know. Or if they were witness to an assault of a woman they would call the police. There have also been many cases were total strangers (men), stepped in to break up a domestic abuse situation where they fear for a woman’s safety and they themselves got killed.

        There is no blanket solution to this, it has to be taken case by case.

        1. millie bobby brownie

          My first ever job, aged 16, was as a waitress in a bar restaurant, and I had the misfortune to run into a trio of men, who thought sexually assaulting me in one of the smoking areas would be an excellent plan. They didn’t get further than a few unpleasant gropes, but I honestly have no idea what would have happened had not a very nice young man stepped in and called them out on their behaviour, before alerting security. This was well before #metoo or any of that, and I am grateful to him to this day. He also urged me to report it to the barman on duty, when I probably wouldn’t have done out of fear of losing my job. Incidentally, the barman did not believe me and told me to get back to work (nice guy, him) and it was only when I reported it to the manager, the barman in question took it seriously and was made to apologise.

          1. Junkface

            Sorry to hear you went through that at your first job. Absolutely horrible actions from those guys. Its a familiar story, I had a girlfriend who was also groped in her weekend job in a restaurant while studying. It made me furious!

            There was also another time, in a big city centre pub many years ago (mid 2000’s), there was a guy dragging out a girl, through the bar towards the front door. We thought she was really sick from being really drunk at first, me and my friend, but then we noticed that her feet were not touching the floor! We were suspicious that she was drugged and he did not know her at all! He said it was his flatmate. We didn’t believe him. We called over the bouncers. The girl couldn’t even speak! Thankfully they held the guy and called the Gards. It was a rohypnol type of drugging. The bouncers said this happened a few weeks ago. Again, after this I was paranoid about my girlfriend and her friends leaving drinks at the table unguarded. These slimeballs had routines by this time in many late bars in town. I was shocked

        2. ReproBertie

          I’m going to have to disagree with you Junkface. This is not something that has to be taken case by case.

          The biggest threat to women’s safety is men. I know some of us may not like to hear that but that’s a simple truth. About 25 years ago a girl I knew quite well told me that if she didn’t know me and saw me walking towards her on a quiet street at night, she would cross the road. I was a bit put out by this because I know I would never be a threat to a woman. It’s just not me. But I later realised that me being put out about this perceived slight on my character was utterly irrelevant. This was not a comment on me. This was a comment on the way most women have to live their lives. I’ve never arrived home from a night out and texted all my male friends to make sure they also got home OK. That’s just standard practice for a lot of women. We teach children to keep their hands to themselves and yet grown men seem unable to do so when passing women. I’ve never sat at a bar and had a guy lean in a little too close, or put his hand on the small of my back, while ordering his drink. When I’m standing in a crowded bar guys don’t touch me as they move through the crowd. This happens to women all the time.

          We don’t need to address this on a case by case basis. We need to teach boys to respect girls. We need to teach them this in word and show them by example. I’m sure you already do and yet women live in a world where they feel safer crossing the road than walking past a man at night. Treating girls and women with respect needs to be the norm in our society. There was a massive outcry when refugees assaulted women one NYE in Germany but, other than scale, was that really any different to the experience of women on any night out in any Western city?

          We can’t change society over night and we’ll get nowhere if our first reaction is to protect our bruised egos when women speak about feeling unsafe. How do we change society? Same way we walk a journey of 10,000 miles. One small step at a time.

          1. Junkface

            “here was a massive outcry when refugees assaulted women one NYE in Germany but, other than scale, was that really any different to the experience of women on any night out in any Western city?”

            Jesus Repro, I take your point on most of what you said, but that sexual assault on 20 to 30 young women all at the same time in Germany on NYE, from a mob of north African and Iraqi men was something completely different to a normal night out in a city. Don’t be ridiculous! Aayan Hirsi Ali has talked about what was behind that kind of thing. That was a result of culture shock and total ignorance of accepted behaviour around women in the west from young muslim men. There has been a lot written about it in the Netherlands and Germany.

          2. ReproBertie

            Do you really think 20-30 women don’t get groped in Dublin on a Friday night out? In London? Paris? Rome? New York? Sydney?

          3. Dan

            True, but the biggest threat to men is also men. I am not sure “telling your friends off if they tell a sexist joke” will effect the real cohort of men who enjoy attacking/raping women. Funny that the same group who deride the ‘Not All Men’ hashtag are the first to respond with ‘Not All Muslims’ after a terror attack.

          4. Junkface

            Repro,
            It was 20 to 30 attempted rapes, not just groping like I said, it all happened at the same time in a city centre. In front of shops, cctv cameras, they didn’t care. It was like a frenzy, power in numbers. Its not comparable to normal behavior that we experience on a night out in the western world. We should have honest discussions about women’s safety and teaching young men about respecting women’s space, but don’t make wild, inaccurate comparisons not based on the facts of those events. Its not helpful.

          5. ReproBertie

            Junkface, just to be clear. I wasn’t trying to downplay the NYE incidents. Apologies if it come across that way.

            What I am trying to say is that you can find as many women sexually assaulted in any western city on any normal Friday night. Yes, “just groping” is sexual assault and, while the attacks may not be as serious, they are symptoms of the same societal issue. That’s why I said the scale [of the attacks] was the only real difference.

            If we expect the refugees to change their behaviour around women why do we expect any less from Western men? Without getting bogged down on whether my comparison was appropriate or not, the issue remains the same.

        3. Brother Barnabas

          what I mean JK is that men’s behaviour is a problem in every society – of course it’s not all men but lots of men behave like assholes towards women

          and it needs to be addressed at a really fundamental level – and at a young age

          having said that, irish men are among the most respectful. it’s often a cultural thing.

  1. goldenbrown

    Engerland seems whipped up into a frenzy over this alleged cop turned kidnap killer weirdo incident

    has a diet of imploding monarchy, C19 boredom daytime TV and Dailymail finally given them a critical mass of stupid stupid people?

    even bled into the C4 News a bit last night

    we’re heading for end of days here folks at this rate

    1. Broadbag

      It’s odd that this complete outlier (cop turned killer) is the one to provoke the reaction, surely the more mundane everyday killings/attacks on women are more chilling, just weird that this incident seems to have lit the touch paper.

      1. Daisy Chainsaw

        Because cops are supposed to keep you safe, not abduct and murder you. If we’re not safe with so called guardians of the peace, how can we expect to be safe around any man?

  2. Junkface

    Jesus, this wasn’t seriously considered was it? I’ve a feeling this was created just to outrage people, some sort of distraction. It would be one hell of an overreaction.

    Also the fact that the main suspect seems to be a cop that went nuts makes this a rare abduction and murder case. I don’t remember anything like this happening for quite a while.

  3. ce

    Dear World – think before you speak…

    …sits back and waits for the “think before you type” reply…

  4. Tarfton Clax

    Obviously it would never happen, though it is equally obvious it would achieve its aim perfectly. It’s like the thought experiment I suggested at a seminar on safety in the workplace years ago that if one wanted to achieve an 80% reduction in road deaths one need only ban all men under 35 from driving. Equally impossible to enforce or even seriously consider, but it would achieve it’s aim of massively reducing road deaths.

    The idea behind it is interesting in that it pushes the responsibility back towards the perpetrators rather than the victims. I find it interesting that some men appear to be personally offended by these notions but not in the slightest at the notion that all women should be entirely responsible for the prevention of male violence by dint of regulating their own behaviour rather than looking at who actually should be responsible for it.

    90% or more of men, I would contend, would never assault or kill a woman or another man. Unfortunately of those who do attack/kill men or women over 90 % are men. It could be worthwhile looking at some possible causes or possible remediations.

    1. Micko

      So 10% of men would possibly kill? I think you’re way over exaggerating there Tart.

      I’d say 99% of men wouldn’t assault or kill a woman. Our society would be in tatters if that wasn’t the case.

      But then we did continuously shut down our entire society for a virus that we now know had a fatality rate of 0.23% – so fire away.

      Lock is all up. It’s the only way to be sure. ;)

      1. Oro

        95%+ of murders are committed by males. A woman is most at risk of violence from her male partner than any other part of society. We can all do the “but not most men” bit for another few decades and many more women will suffer violence or there could be some changes made. Heterosexual men / men that have romantic relationships with women need to be educated about violence towards women. All of them.

        This strategy of pre-excusing me in a “only bad men do it” doesn’t help. As proven by statistics. Because it’s not just a bad egg situation. Notable that you didn’t supply one of your usual “well my mates…..” stories in this instance.

        1. Micko

          Just to use actual numbers here instead of emotions.

          3,763,440 Adults in Ireland
          Half of those (roughly) are male giving us 1,881,720

          10% of that is 188,172

          Now, if you think that there are 188,172 potential rapists and murderers running around – well you should have been staying indoors long before covid.

          1. Nigel

            ‘ well you should have been staying indoors long before covid.’

            Yes, that’s pretty much the message conveyed to women.

        2. Micko

          “ 95%+ of murders are committed by males”

          By comparison, 96% of males are firefighters.

          So 96% of all people saved from infernos, were saved by men.

          So… yeah. Stats are fun.

          Grow up Oro.

          1. Oro

            We’re not talking about firefighting we’re talking about violence against women. And its perpetrated almost entirely by heterosexual men and usually where there is a sexual dynamic to the relationship (consensual or non-consensual). Almost all of the women that I’m friends with have been sexually assaulted, or mistreated (on one but usually more occasions) and it’s not just the one fella doing it.

            You’re reacting in a way that’s misogynistic, lacking in empathy and shows only disinterest towards a solution. *mock surprise*

          2. Micko

            Ah ok Oro. I see how this works.

            I see that YOUR mates experiences are to be taken as gospel, but when I quote MY mates experiences, you say they are just hearsay or make belief

            (You even brought it up out of the blue – up above in your original post)

            Scarlet for ya… ;)

          3. Oro

            I’ve highlighted your extremely unlikely and all encompassing usage of extremely specific ‘mates based anecdotes’ before because you invent a particular character with a specific story in order to supply logic to almost every random argument you make. And then you add a ‘salt of the earth’ character trait to it.

            What I’m saying is that broadly all of the women that I know well have experienced sexual assault / mistreatment from heterosexual men. You can bluster all you like and dodge the issue (I’m sensing low level guilt projection) but that’s the reality of the situation. You’ve never mentioned female friends in your anecdotes before but maybe go ask a close female friend about it, that is of course if you have any female friends (this might be a hurdle I’m guessing?).

          4. Nigel

            Micko what are you even trying to do here? If it isn’t dismissing women’s experiences of harassment, assault and rape, then you’re just being a bit of a dick for the sake of it.

          5. Micko

            My problem Nigel is with the amount of man hating and man bashing that goes on unchecked here.

            Man are all monsters etc etc.

            Except for when they’re saving you from burning building or cutting you out of a crashed car or pulling you out of the water.

            We have a psycho problem, not a man problem.

            The overwhelming majority of men are brilliant. As are the majority of women.

            It’s the psychos that are the problem.

            Absolutely simplistic BS being trotted out by Oro.

          6. Oro

            It’s a bit arch to say I’m being simplistic immediately after your saying misogyny doesn’t exist on a broad scale because men rescue women from burning buildings and drowning lol.

            In fact that kind of logic “men are mainly great guys therefore can’t be dangerous to women” has a name and is defined as a type of saviour complex. It’s a common feature of misogyny and is deployed in way which uses outlying traditionalist examples of men as a way to dismiss women when they talk about general misogyny. It also commonly features the person deploying it pushing an agenda of separation of “good guys” versus “bad apples”.

            For instance someone might say “So 96% of all people saved from infernos, were saved by men” or “We have a psycho problem, not a man problem”. When the conversation is about women’s experience of misogyny and it’s affects throughout all aspects of their lives. It’s all about avoidance of dealing with the issue, vanity, not listening to women, pride etc etc.

          7. Nigel

            Complete nonsense.People are taking about real pain and suffering and you’re dismissing and downplaying it and wittering inanities, pretending all men are under attack rather than hearing what’s being said. Get a hold of yourself.

    2. Dan

      Would you consider a thought experiment where we ban all Muslims from western cities as they cause the majority of violent terror attacks? Would that be interesting as it pushes the responsibility towards the perpetrators, or would it be tarring an entire group with the same brush?

      1. Nigel

        Not so much a thought experiment as an actual policy proposed by a recent US prsident. I’m not sure it’s even true that they do cause the majority of terrorist attacks. If you were going to go banning religions here because of their association with violent terrorism you certainly wouldn’t start with Muslims.

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