One Jab Or Two?

at

This afternoon.

KC Peaches, Dame Street, Dublin 2.

Vax happy customers Patricia Bree (left) and Collette Harton enjoying café-made coffee in real cups on the first day of indoor dining and drinking for the sufficiently-dosed.

Lucky perishers.

*stares mournfully through café window*

Sasko Lazarov/Rollingnews

Meanwhile…

Fight!

Earlier: Into My Veins

48 thoughts on “One Jab Or Two?

  1. frank

    I’m fully vaccinated and think this is total rubbish.
    This is not about public health and suppression of ‘a deadly virus’.

    1. seanydelight

      Its a tragedy, but unsurprising. Business owners think their ability to make a few bob is more important than equality for all.
      That’s life these days. Selfish and willfully ignorant.

      1. millie bobby brownie

        Are you making the point that those people who closed/put their livelihoods and businesses on hold (more than any other sector, as far as I can see), made a larger more costly sacrifice than many other businesses, for the sake of public health, should make *further* sacrifices to their business and livelihoods to satisfy the demands of one cohort of people? The majority of whom can be vaccinated but choose not to be, I should add.

        1. Des

          @ Millie
          No I think the point is that businesses should not be co- opted under duress (can’t open if you don’t comply) to be the collector of personal information (that really is private) just so someone can go have a sandwich or a plate of food. As consumers are being asked to flag if we are vaccinated or not, the business is being asked to collect & store personal information (because our Govt could not think of a better way round this) so we can go in and be served by somebody who is probably unvaccinated and possibly share a room with families and kids who are also not vaccinated? None of this raises any concerns with you?

          1. seanydelight

            Well said Des.

            The businesses have let themselves down.
            The precedent this establishes is being ignored by the maith an paisti so they can get sticky gold stars from authority.

            In what scenario can this system become no longer relevant? Or will it, as I believe it will, gain functions of it own?

          2. millie bobby brownie

            I don’t see a problem with providing proof I’ve received a vaccine, if it means that we can get back to normal (or as close to it as possible). Nor do I have an issue with providing my driving licence (which also has personal information on it too – including medical information) if I want to rent a car, for example, because it’s required for the safety of myself and others. I don’t see this as discrimination, because you have a choice in the matter.

            I do think that you make a good point re young people working as servers etc in an indoor setting as they are at an increased risk of catching and spreading covid. And if the aim is to reduce the numbers of cases so that we can return to normal, then there’s a chance this maybdefeat the purpose somewhat.

          3. seanydelight

            Driving a car is not a right, it’s an earned privilege when you demonstrate you can operate it safely.

            It doesn’t equate with access to social settings, which for many can be the only outlet they have in their lives.
            By it’s logic, only vaccinated children should return to school.

            No precedent exists currently which it can be drawn in comparison to, because libraries worth of laws exist to prevent it.

          4. Nigel

            The reason why no precedent exists in law is because it’s a form of emergency power, to be utilised only in national emergencies. They are – relatively – extreme measures because this is an extreme situation and not normal and only sets precedents for other national emergencies. There may well indeed be a lot of handwringing, debate and argument about whether children will be allowed to return to school. Nobody’s looking forward to it.

          5. seanydelight

            An emergency is no reason to lower these
            basic standards and crucial pillars of society, I believe.

          6. Nigel

            That seems to be at odds with the nature of public health emergencies which do not care about pillars of society.

          7. millie bobby brownie

            A poor example perhaps. A better one would be vaccines to enter another country. If I were to travel to Peru, I would require, in addition to boosters for HepA and Tetanus, vaccines for Diphtheria, HepB, Rabies, Typhoid, and Yellow Fever. You can choose not to get them, but you may not gain access to the country. It’s a choice.

            But refusing someone access to a pub or a restaurant because they are unvaccinated isn’t strictly discrimination because, for most people, it’s a choice not to be vaccinated, but I can see why there are a number of people who disagree with it.

        2. Andrew

          Businesses hit by restrictions received grants of up to €5,000 a week. So their ‘sacrifice’ needs to be put in context

          1. millie bobby brownie

            I don’t dispute your point at all Andrew, and I’ve no doubt there are definitely some who’ve exploited it. I merely find it interesting that many of those opposed to lockdown measures because of the detrimental effect this would have on businesses (and in particular small Irish businesses), now seem to have changed tack.

            Whereas the argument once was to open it all up, think of the economy, small business etc; it now seems to have shifted to say they shouldn’t fully open at all if unvaccinated people can’t go inside.

        3. seanydelight

          @Nigel, when everyone is outside it doesn’t have to care, we’re told.
          I accept it’s an arbitrary level of risk being being applied albeit with measurements and arguments to consider it otherwise for outdoor settings, but at least no one is deemed unfit to participate, or worse – excluded entirely.

          @ -Millie Peru or wherever has the right to allow access to their society, on their terms. We are actively participating in the separating of member of our society who untill today, had equal stake and access to it.

          1. Nigel

            We’re told that because ventilation has emerged as key, drastically reducing the risk of outdoor spread – so not so much arbitrary as calculated.

        4. alickdouglas

          Millie, to pick up on your point regarding travel, to the best of my knowledge the only vaccines that are required by public health authorities are Polio and YF. The other vaccinations might be desirable for the health of the individual traveler, but people who aren’t vaccinated aren’t typically regarded as a ‘public health threat’, and they usually aren’t checked.

          The polio requirement is supported by a world health assembly motion. I’ve only ever heard of it being scrutinised in Europe for school entry; in many countries kids are not allowed attend unless they have their shots. If they (i.e. their parents) choose not to be vaccinated, they (in theory) have to be home-schooled. Since stand-alone polio is no longer available in Europe, this legislation de facto means that all children get DPTaHib/HBV/IPV. For reasons that are unclear to me, polio doesn’t require an international certificate and hence isn’t required for international travel (which quite frankly would make more sense).

          YF on the other hand is not supported by a WHA motion, but certification *is* required by most countries at risk of YF. I don’t know if those countries have legislation in place to support the compulory nature of the jab, but from what I know of most of them, they aren’t the sort of places you might argue with border entry staff. The main driver making it compulsory is not to protect the individual traveller from infection (that is a side benefit) but to prevent introduction. The mode of action of YF and IPV is fairly well characterised and I think their ‘compulsory’ nature is fairly justifiable.

      1. f_lawless

        Transitioning the public into a totalitarian social credit system similar to that of communist China

          1. f_lawless

            I remember back in August 2020 commenting on what was coming down the line after the first prototype was announced in the form of “Health Passport Ireland”. Daisy didn’t get it then. Doesn’t get it now either.

            https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/08/28/my-passports-green-3/#comment-2233235

            Me: “Here we go. As suspected. . This is an attack on our society as we know it. We need to resist this before it properly gets off the ground. Seems like Ireland is being used to test the waters for the introduction of the planned ‘biosecurity state’ as some have dubbed it. A technology-driven system of governance with heightened levels of surveillance and social control hitherto never seen in western liberal democracies. All under the guise of protecting public heath. Once up and running this is not going away. The next public health threat will always be looming.. You mightn’t be overtly forced into it initially, put if you opt out, would be deemed to have a bad social credit rating – like in China’s system – and liable to be penalised or shut out from certain aspects of society.”

            Daisy Chainsaw : “You’re perfectly entitled to not download it, you know. They haven’t put the chip in your brain to recieve it directly… OR HAVE THEY!?!?!”

            Me: “But this is just the ‘test the waters phase’. If down the line the system gets properly up and running, you mightn’t be overtly forced in to it but you would be urged to do so or suffer restrictions or penalties – eg higher health insurance rates, not able to travel abroad, maybe schools start requiring them for pupils etc..”

          2. SOQ

            Sure what does it matter if all centre left politics in Ireland voted against this ‘back of the bus’ thing?

            It’s all about YOU Daisy- yeah?

  2. Elk

    I’m fully vaccinated and think this is a brilliant idea.Great to see the elderly and retired being able to resume their social lives again and it’ll only be a matter of weeks before everyone who has been double jabbed will be able to enjoy the same.
    It’s not perfect but it’s the start of a path back to normality.

    1. MR.Bezos

      Elderly can still get covid from these cafes – vaccinated people (and unvaccinated staff) can still spread covid.

      Antigen tests should be the basis of all entry requirements

      1. Elk

        Double vaxx all the way.Ignore the conspiracy theories of Bodger ” Trump woz robbed ” and all the other jab nutters on here.
        Vaccines work and indoor dining is rightful reward for those who have been innoculated.
        In a few weeks we’ll be wondering what all the fuss is about but for today there are just lots of very grateful business people who can go back to earning a living instead of poncing off the state and using any excuse to stay at home as our friends in the public sector like to do.

      2. george

        The elderly are vaccinated so the risk of them getting the virus is very slight and the risk of them having serious symptoms is virtually nil. The risk of them getting it from another vaccinated customer is virtually nil.

        The risk of an unvaccinated person with a negative antigen test infecting another unvaccinated person in comparison is relatively high.

  3. george

    Between you and your doctor? My Doctor doesn’t know because he didn’t vaccinate me.
    You can keep your vaccine status a secret very easily if you care. In about 5 weeks it won’t even be an issue.

    1. SOQ

      If you believe that then you are either being incredibly naïve or just plain stupid- this is here for the long term.

  4. Gorugeen

    All the “this is about control” and “the start of a slippery slope..” claptrap will be completely redundant in a few weeks or months. But, just wait and hear them change to “we forced them to change course” and “it was all a smokescreen for 5G and the great. replacement…”. , same old, same old.

    1. seanydelight

      Just be clear, by dragging up ‘5G’ and ‘great replacement’, you’re entering those terms into the discourse in order to willfully conflate opposing opinions to yours. No one knows what way it will turn out.

      It doesn’t change the fact that precedent is now established.

      People will be more comfortable with this form of discrimination in future. A slippery slope indeed.

      1. Nigel

        Nobody is comfortable with this. It’s a compromise to allow partial reopening before full vaccination is achieved because everyone’s going absolutely doolally. People whining about discrimination don’t know what discrimination is.

          1. Nigel

            A public health measure of limited restrictions until everyone has had access to vaccinations.

          2. Nigel

            It might fail, but not because of a sudden overwhelming urge to DISCRMINATE against the unvaccinated.

          3. f_lawless

            The government already entered a €191m deal back in May for at least 4.8 million Pfizer Covid vaccines each year in 2022 and 2023 with the option of securing an additional 9.8m doses over the same time period.

            This was a government spokesperson’s statement at the time:

            “Scientific advice indicates that variants will continue to evolve over the coming months and that vaccine immunity is not indefinite Therefore, it is likely that repeated boosters with updated vaccine formulations will be needed for a very high proportion of the population.”

            If you think this system is here just for the short term, you haven’t thought very hard about it. The government have already indicated it’s going to be expanded to other areas. The need to prove you’re up-to-date with the latest booster shot for the latest variant is what’s coming

          4. Cian

            We were caught on the hop this time and the government was slated for not getting sufficient vaccines and going the EU-route.

            They are being pro-active and pre-ordering vaccines in case they are needed. And you are saying this is a bad thing.

  5. Micko

    Meanwhile in the UK, cases are down about 50% since freedom day on the 19th.

    From 50k a day to under 25k today.

    Good news. Hopefully this is the ‘exit wave’ for us all.

    1. Cian

      Meanwhile there are
      – over 5,000 covid patients (up from under 1000 at the start of June) [still increasing]
      – over 699 covid ICU patients (up from 120 at the start of June) [still increasing]
      – 932 deaths so far this month (there were 378 in June) [still increasing]

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