From top: Aerial view of the Merrion Hotel; venue capacity covid guidelines
Oh.
This morning.
Further to Merriongate…
…TD Translator writes:
This is what the rules are. No way can that hotel hold 5000 outside on its patio. It’s clear Leo The Liar and friends broke the law!
Anyone?
Last night: “A Grubby Little Episode”
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I thought it was hilarious when Eamon Ryam referred to the hotel as a cricket venue in an attempt to dispel some public anger.
I agree with the article’s main claim, namely that the Tanaiste told a barefaced lie. In normal circumstances between this, the criminal investigation against him and some other things, he would be gone. Not to mention all the knives out for him from the politicians he has shafted in the recent park.
However, the man is as slippery and Teflon-coated as Bertie Ahern ever was.
There really is, in fact a Merrion Cricket club.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Merrion+Cricket+Club/@53.3239256,-6.2303496,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xafda1b9be2095a4f!8m2!3d53.3239256!4d-6.2303496
He didn’t refer to the hotel as a cricket club. He was referring to a different event that was held at a cricket club.
I read that as:
Maximum of 200
or
500 for outdoor venues with a minimum accredited capacity of 5,000 with protective measures in place.
So do I.
Yep.
200 is the default max, but you have can have 500 if the ordinary capacity is 5000 or more.
This was to do with sports – you can have 200 in attendance at your local club, but 500 in a stadium of sorts
Its 200; or 500 if the capacity is 5000.
Not “200 or 500” for 5k capacity.
If you watched Prime Time last night, you would have seen a FG Senator defend Leo and Co that they didn’t break any law, but all but admitted that guidelines were broken.
Talk about damage limitation when they take the line ‘we may have broken guidelines, but we didnt break the law’.
But shure we’ll vote them in again and again…
thats what kills me .. is stuff like this gets forgotten about and they get re-elected. They know it now too, that’s why varadkar is just guna lay low for a while. And that’ll be it, we’ll be on to other news. And the same cabbages will come out and vote them back in come election time. We’re doomed to repeat this cycle ad finite.
Guidelines but not laws
Mandatory but not compulsory
They didn’t break that guideline or the law.
Both allow up to 200 people in an outdoor event.
stop talking sense – it hurts too much
It must mean 500 is allowable where the capacity is 5000 but otherwise 200 is the max. It has not been written correctly though.
This is however, a guideline document not the law. I haven’t seen what the legislation says.
here ya go
https://assets.gov.ie/139831/4bb08314-9628-47a4-b9b5-daa508bf29f7.pdf
Regulation 8 of the Principal Regulations is amended by the substitution of the following paragraph for paragraph (1A):
“(1A) A person may organise, or cause to be organised, a relevant event in a relevant geographical location where –
[…]
(ii) the number of persons attending, or proposed to attend, the event –
(I) does not exceed 500 where the event is held, or to be held, in a relevant venue, or
(II) does not exceed 200 where the event is held, or to be held, other than in a relevant venue,
zapper shindig and merrion hotel do not relevant event and rlevant venue make
The 200 limit is for anywhere that isn’t a “relevant venue”.
If the Merrion Hotel isn’t a relevant venue (and I don’t believe it is) it can host up to 200 outdoors.
As George says and to expand a bit on Cian’s comments, this is a guideline document. The law is what we should go by. This is covered in Statutory Instrument 217, as amended by SI 267 and SI 329.
The amendments in SI 267 (from 2 June) state:
‘relevant venue’ means a fixed or temporary venue, including a stadium, arena, grandstand, park, pitch or golf course, that would, but for the restrictions on attendance at events provided for by these Regulations, be capable of accommodating at least 5,000 persons outdoors
The limit for ‘relevant events’, which this event would come under, is 200 for relevant venues and 100 for other venues.
Under SI 329 (from 5 July), the limits are increased to 500 and 200 respectively.
What does relevant mean here?
We badly need to reform how legislation is structured and amended. Up to date versions of all acts with all amendments integrated should be published instead of requiring all this cross referencing which only reduces transparency and understanding of the law.
Exactly. Also – The Statute book refers to a ‘Relevant Indoor Premises’. I can’t find a reference in it to a ‘Relevant Outdoor Premises’.
The thing is, if this space is enclosed within the hotel itself, can it be legally classed as an ‘outdoor’ premises as the only exit access is available is through the hotel premises itself? (As distinct from the bars that have street furniture outdoors).
Pity the Legal Coffee Drinker hasn’t been around recently.
You arrive at your table and then you
examine the wine-list and menu.
But a fact most germane
you must first ascertain:
Are you in a Relevant Venue?
@ George
Absolutely agree about the need for the legislation to be provided in an updated form. It is very difficult to check out all the cross-references and to make sure that there has been no other relevant legislation.
Terms like ‘relevant venue’ and ‘relevant event’ are defined at the start of Statutory Instruments but not all the necessary definitions are included.
Theoretically, the Guidelines put the facts of the law into simpler terms but, in some cases (an example is the description of the lockdown rules about leaving your place of residence), the Guidelines are misleading and/or contradictory. In any case, they are still too complicated (because, of course, the legislation is complicated). As a result, many people whom I know gave up trying to understand either the law or the Gudelnes a long while ago. They just rely on common-sense and trust to crossed-fingers as regards whether they are breaking the law.
The updated (currently to 26 July 2021) Health Act 1947 is available at
revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/1947/act/28/front/revised/en/html
and definitions are in section 2 – though these still involve cross-references. There is no definition for ‘relevant indoor premises’ and l can’t find a reference in the SIs that haven’t yet been included, Giggidy.
Like I said, not all the necessary definitions are shown.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/si/296/made/en/print
Definition ‘3’
““relevant premises” means an indoor premises, or a part of such a premises, to which the public has access ”
Hence my asking about the indoor aspect. I don’t see any definition there for ‘outdoor’.
Does the absence of a roof in an area that’s totally enclosed by walls of the premises with no access from the street legally make it an ‘outdoor’ area?
(Just asking by the way)
who determined that zappers speech is a relevant event though?
There’s law, and there’s doing the right thing.
As Vradkar is a psychopath, neither are applicable in his mind.
psychopathy
A mental disorder roughly equivalent to antisocial personality disorder, but with emphasis on affective and interpersonal traits such as superficial charm, pathological lying, egocentricity, lack of remorse, and callousness.
Stop lads ye couldn’t make this poo up !!! Eamon wants us to get the bats out – who is up for a game for cricket on the grounds of the Merrion? Just putting a wash on – Daz-zine’ me whites – don’t wanna look outta place amongst the 5,000 .. or is it 500 .. or 200 … or 50 per Zappone bash
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/b0c06-cabinet-committee-reviews-progress-on-pandemic-response/
Published 6th August 21
“For example, large gatherings and crowds that involve socialisation, including consumption of alcohol which reduces inhibitions, have all been shown to aid the spread of the COVID-19 disease.”
Good job these was no alcohol at Zappers do. Oh wait!
Nothing like a good old inhibition reducer and State Socialisers to assist spreading the Covid-19