Don’t Mask, Don’t Tell

at

This morning.

The Health Information and Quality Authority (HIQA) review of the current minimum age for compulsory mask-wearing is now completed and up for consideration at the next meeting of Nphet.

The current minimum age is 13.

Via Mary McCarthy in Independent.ie:

If a review recommends primary children should start wearing masks, it will be a big step backwards from providing our kids with the normal school environment they need and deserve after so much upheaval.

My kids went back yesterday, the youngest starting for the first time, and it was a pure joy to see them bounce around with excitement, reunited with their pals while the junior infants eyed each other up nervously.

The relief when they spotted someone they already knew from creche or the park and the nervous little faces of those who recognised nobody, their hand clamped in the safety of their parent’s.

Don’t make the under-12s wear masks – our children have already paid a high price during the coronavirus pandemic (Independent.ie)

Meanwhile…

Students walk out of Douglas County Schools protesting mask mandate (Highland Ranch Herald)

RollingNews

81 thoughts on “Don’t Mask, Don’t Tell

    1. SOQ

      Trolls out today I see- it takes a certain kind of ‘special’ to spend so much time trying to get under other people’s skins I suppose.

      Anyways- muzzling primary school children is promoted by one Luke O’Neill apparently. Nothing to do with a push to inject children with the experimental therapy next I suppose.

      1. Hank

        Saw Luke O’Neill interviewed last week and he specifically said he wasn’t in favour of kids having to wear masks. He also said he thinks, now that we have such a high vaccination rate, there’s no reason for continuing to delay reopening society and he thinks the government are being over cautious.

          1. Ben Madigan

            The same Luke O’Neill who said at the start of the pandemic that wearing masks was pointless because “this evil virus will penetrate the eyes”

    1. Micko

      I hope not.

      If they are then I think there will be lots of primary school children not in school. This will only make kids more anxious and doesn’t help them. Only helps deluded adults who are afraid.

      My daughters friend has already developed an OCD obsession with germs. She’s 7.

      She banged her head on the entrance to my car the other day because she didn’t want to touch anything in my car. My motor is spotless. She was trying to get into the back seat without touching anything, had her hands in the air like a surgeon who’s just scrubbed their hands when she walloped her head.

      She won’t touch her father anymore as he’s “covered in germs”. Still touches her mother thankfully.

      She spends 10-15 mins in the toilet washing her hands at a time. She also sometimes washes her food before she eats it.

      She’s a lovely kid and it’s bloody heartbreaking.

      They’re not old enough to process this stuff.

          1. Oro

            That’s funny coming from you. In this instance you’re either 1) making up a story about a child to emphasize an anti public health point you’re trying to make or 2) using your friends child in order to score points in an argument where you’re arguing against public health measures. It would put Helen Lovejoy to shame either way.

            I tend to think it’s #1 because you’ve been caught out before mixing up your anecdote personalities, and you clearly have realized there’s no burden of proof on here so you do it so often that it’s not credible. Your ‘salt of the earth’ bent to each of them “oh an old electrician friend of mine and his wife who’s a nurse” further puts it into a place where it’s totally unbelievable.

            My calling this out (and your tone police attempt) for some reason I would say puts you on the not very nice person list but “let’s respect each other’s opinion” as you’re so fond of saying eh?

          2. Oro

            Oh god please don’t accuse me of being invested in anything to do with you! But I think you have a nasty streak that you dress up in disarming terms (pal, dude(shudder)) which I find dishonest. On top of the dishonesty of what you’re actually saying usually. Then you have your dishonest anecdotes that suit whichever random piece of misinformation you happen to be spreading around on whatever day of the week it is. The whole thing is just so deceptive.

            I’m not sure what part you’re ‘standing by’ or why that needs to be said. You’d hardly admit to being wrong now would you? Not your style eh?

          3. Micko

            ..a nasty streak Oro?

            You’re damn right I’ve a nasty streak. I’m a veritable monster at times.

            But to paraphrase Nietzsche, being a good nice person isn’t someone who hasn’t a monster in them.

            A good person is the one who keeps that monster at bay and chooses not to harm. But knows they can at anytime.

            People who think they don’t have a nasty streak, see the world like a child.

            Harmless and toothless.

          4. Oro

            Did you get a top trumps of European thinkers or something recently? It’s a bit heavy handed with the quotes ;) just don’t use them all up so quickly!

            I’ll give you toothless, by your logic you probably don’t believe in brushing.

          5. Micko

            Cool

            Too hi brow?

            I could do some quotes from Mrs Brown Boys maybe?

            God, I can be an awful Kant. Boom boom

          6. Oro

            Never liked the phrase ‘hi brow’ (sic) tbh. It was just a remark, no need to take offense.

            And I’m sure you can quote Mrs brown’s boys by rote.

      1. Fergalito

        Crikey – the poor divil, they absorb so much and it’s what they don’t share and try to process by themselves that’s the difficult part to provide help with.

        1. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

          ah the old throw them into the deep end they will swim or drown school of thought

    1. MoRhustyDilis

      I would love to thinks so, but the ‘big plan’ at play is that there will be. To push more jabs for the children. There is no way they will stop now and not push ahead. Thus the weird low covid reporting at present and the promise of ‘freedom’ etc.
      As I said, I do hope there won’t be, but I hear on the grapevine otherwise.

  1. Cian

    A massive (335,000+ people) Cluster-Randomized Trial in Bangladesh on the Impact of Community Masking on COVID-19 has been released.

    TL;DR: Masks reduce Covid.

    There were 147,000 people in the control group.
    Cloth masks (54,000 people in this sample group) reduce Symptomatic Seroprevalence by 5.0%
    Surgical masks (106,000 people in this sample group) reduce Symptomatic Seroprevalence by 11.2%

    https://www.poverty-action.org/sites/default/files/publications/Mask_RCT____Symptomatic_Seropositivity_083121.pdf

          1. E'Matty

            all the goodies were funding these guys?! Wow, they must be real good. Surprised the Rockefellar Foundation didn’t get in on the action here too. All the gang reunited. Do Cian and Co never use the tried and tested “Follow the money” approach to such organisatons. Obviously not.

  2. Cui Bono?

    Masks don’t stop the spread of viruses in the community.

    Mandatory masks for adults and children is just tyranny.

  3. ProfessorMark

    Lots of opinions here etc. Thing is, masks will be introduced as they show they reduce viral transmission and as our figures go upwards they will become a necessity.
    If you have a child with an obsession with germs as above its probably best to seek professional help as OCD is a difficult thing to work with. I am sorry to read the account above. I have never spoken to my kids about Covid 19 ever – deliberately so.

    1. SOQ

      They do NOT show they reduce viral transmission- zero evidence of such. Not a single country in Europe had a reduction in infection rates after their introduction.

      The potential harm to young children is huge and I would not blame any parent from pulling their child out of school because of it.

    2. Micko

      If it is brought in it won’t be for safety

      Only 0.1% of current Covid infections are in ICU currently.

      Only 1 person under 45 has died since April. Now stands at 35 for the entirety of the pandemic.

      There is no emergency anymore. Not with the young and the old are jabbed.

      If it does come about, It will be brought in to give us plebs something else to fight about while the Government carries on doing what they want and going to the bank.

      And we’ll happily go along with it. :(

      1. Cian

        We’ve had a load of measures in place since April. That is why nobody has died.

        In Florida, for example, there are about 200 deaths in the 25-44 year age group.
        For all of 2021 they are running at 250+ per week; first week in august saw a jump to 360.

        So far in 2021 they have had over 3,000 excess deaths in the 25-44 age group (have 9,000 deaths, expecting 6,000).

        Florida population is a little over 4 times larger than Ireland, but older – so in Irish terms is would be about 600-750 additional deaths in the 25-44 age group for the first 7 months of the year.

        https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

        1. E'Matty

          have you seen how overweight US young adults are? I’d be willing to bet every one of those young people had a serious underying condition or was obese. The obesity of the nation has played a big role in their death count, just as our young age profile has helped keep ours low. Italy, their very large elderly population being the driver of their death count.

          1. Nigel

            You actually think that proves that ‘every one of those young people had a serious underying condition or was obese?’ No wonder you fall for so much stupid nonsense.

      1. E'Matty

        Something like this – Hey kids. You know the way when daddy is watching those WW2 films and he says “If I was around back then, auld Jerry would be in trouble. I’d defo have been in the resistance causing mayhem”. Well, not only is daddy not in the resitance, he’s invited the gestapo for tea and ratted out the Kelly’s for breaching the 5km rule. Now put these muzzles, I mean masks, on or you’ll catch your death.

        1. Nigel

          And E’Matty will say – spouting nonsense objections online to rudimentary health measures during an airborne viral pandemic was like actually fighting actual Nazis in World War The Second!

  4. octo

    Jaysus. I decided to scroll Broadsheet today after a long time being away. The comments section has really taken a swing to the right in recent years. The amount of anti-mask, anti-science, “personal liberty”, grand conspiracy comments is really disheartening.
    This used to be an interesting liberal forum. Now it’s barely a step up from the comments in thejournal.ie.
    Kids can wear masks if they have to. It’s not a big deal. Stop talking about ‘muzzling’.

    1. GiggidyGoo

      I’d think that the pendulum, number of comments-wise, is swinging a little more to the left overall over the past, say, month.

    2. E'Matty

      The divide is no longer Left or Right, but Libertarian and Authoritarian. Those questioning the Covid narrative and measures are the libertarian camp who primarily value freedom and individual rights, whilst those calling for State control over any and all aspects of our lives to address this pandemic are the authoritarians who primarily value safety and collectivism.

      The Journal comments section is awash with the authoritarian types, as is the Journal itself and all other Irish media.

      “Kids can wear masks if they have to. It’s not a big deal.” I’m sure a child psychologist might say otherwise.

          1. Nigel

            Libertarianism is the exercise of stripping all public rights and protections granted by democratiic governments to allow mega-wealthy billionaires and corporations to pollute, treat workers badly and cheat on taxes. There’s also a really creepy thing about the age of consent, but, eh, let’s not go there. Right wing stooges, mostly.

  5. ProfessorMark

    Masks do help, thats why they are used – theres nothing to say they don’t. Current caseload has low ICU thats correct but this will increase as we approach higher cases due to closer contact. Also most commentators (see above) never take into account the impact of other diseases on the health system, Covid is not the only stress on our health system but it gets disproportionate coverage.
    The fact that people are vaccinated is irrelevant really as we have seen breakthough infections almost straight away. Masks will help reduce this as will other measures. Masks on primary school kids will help reduce infection.

    1. Micko

      “ but this will increase as we approach higher cases due to closer contact”

      In fairness, you’ve no idea if this will happen. That’s just scaremongering.

      Just like when NPHET’s model of the sky falling in when indoor hospitality resumed.

      How moronic does their worst case scenario “expert” prediction of 700k cases over July, Aug & Sept seem now?

      Total rubbish. We haven’t even reached their best case scenario of 195 in ICU. They e been wrong more times than right.

      https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/grim-covid-projections-put-opening-of-indoor-hospitality-in-serious-doubt-1.4606220%3fmode=amp

      Sounds like someone just likes working from home.

      But there needs to be an emergency for that – doesn’t there?

      1. Cian

        NPHET: “If you open up, there will be a load of cases and deaths.”
        Government: Ireland does not open up.

        Two months later…
        Micko: “NPHET are big sillies; There deaths and cases were much smaller than predicted. Total rubbish…”

          1. Cian

            Okay, your link says:
            The most optimistic projection would see 81,000 cases and 165 deaths [over July, August and September].

            How are things going if we are 2/3s of the way through that time period.

            July 1: 272K cases; Sept 1: 354K = 82,000; add another 50% for Sept = 123,000 (easily above their bounds – we are already above the lower bound);

            July 1: 5,000 deaths; Sept 1: 5,112 = 115; add another 50% for Sept = 168 (just above their lower bound);

            and the most benign scenario would see just over 1,500 admissions and 195 people in ICUs.
            From 1/7/2021 to 1/8/2021 we have had 1,170 new covid admissions; add another 50% for Sept = 1,755 (above their lower bound;)

            ICU is harder to calculate but we can use ICU discharges, on July 1 there were 14 people in ICU and since then we have had 108 discharges through Aug 31 and on Aug 31 there were 54. The total was 54 + 108 – 14
            Therefore we have had 148 ICU admissions; add another 50% for Sept = 222 (above their lower bound;)

            [from https://data.gov.ie/blog/coronavirus-covid-19%5D

            Based on the first two months (of three) we are on target to exceed all the (optimistic) projected values.

      2. ProfessorMark

        @micko

        “ but this will increase as we approach higher cases due to closer contact”
        In fairness, you’ve no idea if this will happen. That’s just scaremongering.

        Not really. Schools return this week, colleges return, offices return. Cases will increase. Thats pretty simple: more contact = more cases.

  6. ProfessorMark

    Masks do help, that’s why they are used – theres nothing to say they don’t. Current caseload has low ICU that’s correct but this will increase as we approach higher cases due to closer contact. Also most commentators (see above) never take into account the impact of other diseases on the health system, Covid is not the only stress on our health system but it gets disproportionate coverage.
    The fact that people are vaccinated is irrelevant really as we have seen breakthough infections almost straight away. Masks will help reduce this as will other measures.

    1. E'Matty

      “Masks do help, that’s why they are used” – others would say differently. What have you to support your claim?
      “theres nothing to say they don’t” – other than the fact many who contracted the virus were masked (think hospital and Care Home personnel). The onus actually rests with you to prove they do actually work. Other than blocking actual spits, there is not much evidence of them stopping much else. Even Fauci doesn’t think they do anything, as evidenced by his leaked email exchange with a colleague. This tiny benefit should be balanced against the harm, not least to children, resutling from not seeing a persons face when communicating. Makss do sweet FA. They are more a badge of subervience.

      1. ProfessorMark

        Not really. All evidence points to the use of masks as being good practice. Look at the United States – awful stuff in several states particularly where there are no mask mandates. Lets not talk about those who don’t want vaccination.

        1. Orla

          Most recent “gold standard” survey says only surgical masks work. So we give all kids of school going age surgical masks?!?

        2. E'Matty

          The two worst states in the US were high mask wearing States with severe restrictions – NY and California. Yeah, it’s great to see the US has such a high level of vaccine scepticism.

          1. ProfessorMark

            ‘Of California’s 58 counties, only L.A. County has mandated that masks be worn indoors’ (JULY 2021)
            https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-07-21/do-i-need-to-wear-a-mask-indoors-rules-vary-across-california

            This has now changed due to the high numbers of infections. The most recent guidance is below.
            https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/guidance-for-face-coverings.aspx

            ‘Updates as of July 28, 2021:

            Adds recommendation for universal masking indoors statewide
            Adds Adult and Senior Care Facilities to settings where all individuals must wear masks indoors
            References new requirements for unvaccinated workers in the State Health Officer July 26 Order

  7. E'Matty

    Disturbing amount of chatter online amongst in-the-know circles about potential False Flag attack against vaccine centres. Looks like they may be moving to the next stage of portraying all dissenters and those who question the Covid narrative as on a par with ISIS and other terrorist groups. Prepping the public and getting them onboard for a clamp down. Given the proximity to the 20th anniversary of 911, the timing would seem advantageous. Let’s hope not. I truly hope I am not coming back to say “I told you so” but I wonder will anyone remember this post if it does happen.

    1. Nigel

      How can you possibly know that there will be attacks against vaccine centres, and how can you possibly know they’ll be ‘false flag?’

  8. Nigel

    When you guys decided that you were ideologically opposed to the wearing of face masks to reduce the spread of an airborne virus, the rest of us knew this was pure dumb reflexive contrarianism, and you have done nothing to disprove this impression since.

    1. Chris

      Ideologicaly opposed to being part of a psychological experiment that requires obedience and ritual ie masks. At the start of the ‘pandemic’ WHO et al said they’re was no need, but it’s been gaslighting ever since – Fauci says wear 3 masks! Pathetic bootlickers lap it up of course and do everything in their power to defend their abusers including ridiculing those that refuse to be abused.

      1. K. Cavan

        What else would they do, Chris, some may suspect they’ve been duped, might’ve even had a quizzical look at the mortality figures, no, probably not but it’s easier to dupe someone than convince them they’ve been duped,
        The more science & facts you lay before them, the more blindly they trust the TV. That’s the real pandemic we’re witnessing, trust in the utterly, obviously untrustworthy. Corruption Denial.

  9. K. Cavan

    With the current level of corruption in our institutions, quoting studies is moot, money can get anything to appear in “studies”, these days.
    No fabric that anyone can breathe through can prevent viruses entering. It’s not easy to comprehend the size of a virion but the smaller ones are of a similar size to some large molecules. Masks are psychologically damaging but otherwise medically irrelevant.
    Our children will be FORCED to wear MASKS, if anyone thinks that’s OK, they should consider the FACT that the decision is nothing to do with viruses or children’s wellbeing, it’s Political. The type of politics represented by this sort of perverse insanity is the very worst we’re capable of, attractive only to the very worst of humanity, yet these monsters clearly walk among us.

Comments are closed.