On The Table [Updated]

at

This afternoon.

Earlier…

This morning.

Via FT:

Today’s summit will involve a discussion of all potential options and implications of the conflict, a senior Nato official told the FT. But alliance officials have consistently stressed in recent days that a no-fly zone or other intervention that would risk direct clashes with Russia is not an option because of the risk of sparking a wider conflict

Nato chief stresses ‘importance’ of ending Ukraine war (FT)

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51 thoughts on “On The Table [Updated]

  1. SOQ

    There is so much bluff and bluster around this subject right now- especially in the media.

    If NATO imposes a no fly zone over Ukraine then it is game over and, cutting SWIFT will hurt countries that consume Russia’s oil and gas just as much, if not more, than Russia- especially Germany.

    1. goldenbrown

      haha
      you’re funny SOQ
      bluff and bluster
      let’s see how you feel when you’re proper irradiated
      do you think it’ll be the bone marrow that gets you first or your central nervous system failing?
      you certainly wont be worrying about the side effects of C19 vaccinations anymore that’s for sure
      if those power plants go into meltdown you won’t need to worry about NATO but hopefully the wind will be blowing east, wha

      1. SOQ

        If a civilian drone can track a car from half a mile away- which they now can- then just think about how accurate high end military grade equipment is.

        Power plants will not go into meltdown- Russia may be taking control, but they are not bombing THEM, especially as they are right next door and they will be needed once they install their own puppet.

        1. paul

          if Russia is so accurate in their attacks, those attacks on civilian buildings and public areas must have been deliberate then yeah?

          Glad that you’re admitting that Russia are actually invading. Baby steps.

          1. SOQ

            I do not believe such causalities were deliberate but unfortunately accidents happen- especially in the chaos of a war situation, on all sides.

            The current regime handing out weapons to untrained civilians is not an accident however, it is a deliberate attempt to up the civilian death and casualty rate- it is lambs to the slaughter.

            I read this recently- not sure where it came from, but it is on the mark.

            What is War?

            Bombs that cost $100,000, dropping from a plane that costs $100, 000, 000, flying at a cost of $40,000 per hour, to kill people living with less than $10 a day.

            The poor and the innocent are ALWAYS the victims of war.

          2. Vlad X. Novichok

            Those clusterbombs dropped over residential areas sure are ahem ‘unfortunate’ mistakes.

            For the laff, who bagsies the new Haw Haw gig? Yis are getting great practice here. A paid gig surely must follow.

          3. paul

            I’m sure Putin appreciates you apologising on his behalf. He’ll give the invasion a rest, all a big misunderstanding. Your AK47 is in the post.

          4. Broadbag

            Classic doublethink there SOQ:
            ”…just think about how accurate high end military grade equipment is. ”

            Then minutes later:

            ”I do not believe such causalities were deliberate but unfortunately accidents happen- especially in the chaos of a war situation”

            You spend so much time spinning you must be dizzy. Anyone who finds themselves on Putin’s side in this just to be contrarian, or for whatever sinister reason, needs to have a proper look in the mirror.

          5. SOQ

            Accidents happen Broadbag, partially when it comes to wayward missiles. In the case of built up areas, there are many other things which can alter the trajectory, but that does not detract from the actual accuracy.

            For obvious reasons, Nuclear reactors are not situated in built up areas- do you honestly think they were firing them in the close proximity of a nuclear reactor, if the risk was the same?

            You are being spun propaganda- same as the CNN guy who was killed twice and the woman plastered all over the newspaper front pages, who was injured in a gas accident years beforehand.

          6. George

            You are spreading lies quite possibly originating with trolls funded by the Kremlin. Olena Kurilo was not injured years ago in a gas explosion. Show me one example of that photo from a previous year. Multiple journalists documents the explosion, the woman was interviewed by AFP and photos were circulated by a Turkish press agency. The injured woman was photographed by 3 separate photographers. She is also on video rebutting the false claims.

            You are spreading a lie that likely began part of a pro-Russia disinformation campaign. There is now no shortage of evidence of civilian casualties so take a good look at yourself and stop the denial.

    2. George

      More wonderful insight. Russia’s economy is going to completely collapse, Germany’s will not. The worst ‘bluff and bluster” I have seen is coming from the Putin-licks on here.

      1. SOQ

        You know that how? Russia has an extremely low debt rate and is a very wealthy country. Putin himself is worth over $70 BILLION- he is the richest politician in the world.

        Germany on the other hand, while not poor either, is reliant on Russian energy in order to function as a normal society. Switch off the supply and see which caves first- but neither will.

          1. SOQ

            Oh I agree but the same questions could be asked of the likes of Nancy Pelosi? The people tracking her share investments say she either has inside information or she is psychic. It has got to the point where some are actually mimicking her actions these days.

        1. George

          Russia relies on the sale of fossil fuels for its wealth and Putin can’t access his billions. Inflation is going to go through the roof, there will be a shortage of goods, tourism will be gone, Russians won’t be able to travel to do business, they won’t be able to export, many will lose their jobs, and the economy will collapse.

          Germany’s GDP is more than double Russias despite a smaller population. Energy prices in Germany will rise a bit, Russia’s economy will tank.

          1. SOQ

            Correct- 50% of Russia’s wealth comes from energy but it is mainly the dirty money which is hid outside the country. And, most of that is via the city of London which for the most part is not even tied to the UK’s rules.

            Besides, for day to day functioning of a society, if it comes to a toss up between a few billionaire’s cash flow and the energy which will impact every single person / business in the country- energy will win every single time.

            Probably the biggest single inconvenience Russian oligarchs are experiencing right now, is the restrictions on international travel.

          2. George

            You are incorrect that only “dirty money” is held overseas. The central bank of Russia has vast cash reserves overseas.

            Like I said the Russian economy is going to collapse.

  2. freewheeling

    Mr. Ukraine seems determined to drag Europe into a war anyway he can. Things that make you go hmmm.

    1. Kali

      The constant begging for all others to get involved seems unusual, first time in a conflict where the leader spends more time on camera begging for help than anything else. But I suppose he sees it as his only means of defence

      1. George

        “the leader”?! The leader of the invasion is Vladamir Putin.

        It is an invasion not a boxing match.

        1. Kali

          Zelensky, leader of Ukraine no? Not sure how you weren’t able to work that out without an explanation

  3. stephen moran

    A more realistic idea being floated is to take away their poorly named “most favoured nation” status under WTO rules (it just means that all countries must be treated equally for trade) – ironically the mechanism to do this was used by Trump to legally impose tariffs on Chinese steel, solar panels etc i.e. he invoked a national security provision which is allowable under WTO rules. Always read the terns and conditions.

  4. E'Matty

    What a load shysh. All sides seem intent on pushing the Continent into war, a war that will send us all back to the Middle Ages. It’s likely the threat of such is being used to coax us all into increased militarization and more authoritarian regimes at home. They are reshaping the world we live in before our eyes. Dividing us against one another so we don’t look upstairs and see the puppet masters pulling our strings.

    What happens if NATO enforces a No Fly Zone and downs a Russian plane? What happens if the Russians, who have serious surface to air missile systems, start downing NATO planes?

    Ah well, I’m going to enjoy this lovely sunny day and my weekend. I’ll leave the debates, and more often, personal abuse, to ye now. As they say, we’re all “In this together”. The sooner we realise our common interests, the better, though I am not particularly optimistic that will happen. I’ve prepared for the worst and am ready to face what comes. Peace and love to all, even you Nigel and Stephen xxx

    1. SOQ

      And all for what? Because the US puppet regime won’t commit to not joining NATO?

      Imagine if Russia started meddling in Mexico’s affairs? The US would scorch the place and everyone would cheer. Yet somehow, this is different.

        1. anti bot

          What is the matter with 2 idiots. People are dying. but just like covid it’s all a conspiracy? How much tin foil have you got?

      1. Nigel

        If Ukraine surives as an independant nation, there will be no way of keeping them out of NATO after this.

  5. goldenbrown

    jasus….just in case ye didn’t catch this one….

    definitely a future star in the making…next up its Bear in the Big Red Blue House

    Russia has stepped up its propaganda war over its invasion of Ukraine with the release of a 30-minute “education” video aimed at children entitled “a lesson about world peace”

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1499489894766452738

      1. Nigel

        ‘then let them at it’

        This is literally the worst solution. The problem with the Ukrainian situation is that Putin just invaded Ukraine.

  6. scottser

    i’m up for sending in a couple of nato air divisions to knock the russian convoy out, if only to watch putin lose his sh1t.

  7. Gavin

    The whole thing is horrendous, what shocks me as much as Putin invading Ukraine is those calling for NATO to get involved, clearly, they have no idea of the domino effect that this would kick-off or have just finished the latest Call of Duty and are bored.

  8. Maura

    Good to see comments by SOQ and E’Matty on this, signs there is still some thinking out there but unfortunately difficult to counter the mindless wonders.
    Has any mindless wonder ever wondered why dead civilians in the Ukraine are, very rightly, given the last dignity of being called dead civiians/civilians killed but in other places where civilians are killed by bombs, drones, clusterf*cks etc they are only referred to as collateral damage …

  9. stephen moran

    A ferrero rocher free zone

    Ireland is at forefront of ‘anti-Russian events’ in EU, Russian ambassador claims
    via @IrishTimes –

    Ohhhhh matron he clearly didn’t like the D. McCullagh treatment – pity about him – nice veiled / implied threat there also – but we’re hardly in the vanguard – though tank girl Saint Liz photo op Trussia and the poisonous pygmy Patel have the UK in the relegation zone – shame Sir Gavin can’t dispatch a gunboat

    1. SOQ

      Biden has already stated that sanctions will not have an impact, so apart from hurting ordinary people, what is the point? Maybe that is the point.

  10. stephen moran

    Prime Minister of Sweden Magdalena Andersson and Sweden’s Minister of Defence Peter Hultqvist will visit Finland on Saturday 5 March.

    Note Finland’s president was on a short-notice trip to Washington, meets the CIA director William Burns today

    So..uh..about that NATO thing…jus saying like

  11. stephen moran

    Twitter / Facebook & YouTube all now blocked in the workers paradise of Russia – the home of peacekeeping as Putin does his best North Korea impersonation…so much winning

    1. benblack

      As opposed to the Covid mis/dis information by the same companies – this is not a dream/nightmare – this is real.

      But my crypto is increasing in value – do the math funny thing that looks like doge seems to be doing it for me!

  12. stephen moran

    Russians, these are not sanctions, this is a special financial operation.
    Remember it’s not a financial collapse — it’s a special economic descent

    Putin is becoming the poster boy of NATO and EU enlargement. The law of unintended consequences. Good job. Too much winning

  13. ce

    remember the good auld days when we were arguing about VAIDS and not the possibility of nuclear war… good times…

  14. SailorGerry

    Stephen, NATO provoked this conflict and President Putin went along with a course of action he could have done at any time over the last 8 years, and I am still trying to work out what the red line was, but it existed.

    Ce, cheering the arbitrary confiscation of private property, without due process is another step on the road to tyranny, and you seem happy on the path.

    Whilst there is a massive wealth imbalance, stealing peoples shit, (yachts/Villas) makes the West look despotic and 3rd world. To accede the moral high ground in an argument and just become a pirate is short sighted and dumb.

    Russian ownership makes up about 10% of the yachts out there, and there are some cracking great large ones.

    However the harsh reality is the US makes up for near 50% of the floating gin palaces afloat, all exempt from carbon tax, as their owners fly in on private planes, again, carbon tax exempt. No honest person can earn the money to do this in one life time without exploiting the system and people.

    The Germans stole the wealth from the places they invaded in WWII and that financed a large part of that conflict. The US is broke and are trying a similar tactic to finance a war they cannot afford.

    I hope I live to see the day that US imperialism is vanquished and they just go home, and what they do in their country, I could not care less.

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