They hatin’ (probably).
Last night.
Nolan Live on BBC 1 Northern Ireland.
Nolan Live reporter David Thompson writes:
“Graham Linehan says that he’s been been “cancelled” because of his views on sex and gender issues. In a rare TV interview – rare because he says no-one will touch him now – Graham says his life has been destroyed. He says celebrity friends refused to sign a letter condemning death and rape threats against J.K Rowling – someone who he says has been labelled a bigot without any evidence being presented to that end.
“He says he’s lost his marriage – his plans for a Father Ted musical have been scrapped unless he steps away – and that comedians live under a constant threat of blackmail about ‘crossing a line’ on certain issues.”
Meanwhile…
Unfortunately for Sonia, the data doesn’t back up her feelings:https://t.co/qtCYneWPn3
— Paul Duane 🍥 (@paulduanefilm) March 24, 2022
Sonia O’Sullivan: Transgender athletes cannot be allowed to compete in women’s sport (Irish Times)
Graham’s always been a five knuckle shuffler. Met the guy a couple of times, not a nice man.
You met him a couple of times & you reckon he’s not a nice man?
That’s definitive, then.
However, Sara, that has nothing to do with anything, I don’t give a damn what you’re opinion of him is, nobody does, frankly & that opinion of yours has nothing to do with the issues he’s raising.
Pathetic.
‘your’
Haha, too easy.
Still creeping around, I see, jungleman, you creepty little creepie-crawly.
I’ve been here a long time and I’m sure I’ll be here long after you’ve shuffled off to infest some other website with your toxic aggression.
Pathetic.
K.Cavan claims he doesn’t give a damn about Sara’s opinion while proceeding to get very offended by her opinion and calling her names.
Oh, K.
In fairness to K. Cavan, he’s an ex-boxer, and his brain is mush after repeated bashing. His anger may stem from brain damage, though I wouldn’t rule out steroid abuse.
Steroid abuse might explain all the aggression.
What’s your excuse, Sara?
Not that you have the slightest inkling of what Graham is like but your childlike belief that the veracity of an argument is based on how well you like the person presenting it is a clear indication of a severe lack of maturity, yet you come across, otherwise, as quite an embittered old drone.
Those “couple of times” you claim to have met him is clearly another childish fantasy.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/27/time-to-find-out-who-cares-boxing-brain-damage-tris-dixon
You’re hallucinating, again, Kim. What name did I call her?
Ok, Kim.
Met him once socially and entertained him in my hostelry
He was pleasent and came across nice and left a good tip to the staff
There is nothing worse that a baying mob
He dose though have a lack of political correctness that I love from comedy
‘does’
Dose
burn
Pathetic.
LOL, no freeze peach anymore?
Agreeing or disagreeing with his opinion is utterly irrelevant here. That’s the point. It is perfectly reasonable and rational to suggest debate around an issue (of, let’s be frank here, controversy) should be perfectly acceptable and the utterly poisonous fad of cancel culture really needs to be eliminated. It is in its own right the most severe form of bullying ever created.
Yes well it rears its head on here often enough.
It’s not enough to simply disagree- names have to be called and blatant bullying at times too. If it wasn’t an anonymous board I have no doubt but that those same individuals would go after people too- some really are that unhinged.
But once confronted in real life, they then mysteriously turn into meekest mice, because at heart- they are just good old fashioned cowards- bullies always are.
+1, SOQ, absolutely.
There are bots roaming and while I have never met John Ryan- I do get the impression that such are allowed- especially from Britain and the US.
Either make a transparent profit or close the shop.
SOQ, I don’t what this means.
@ John- apologies that was badly worded.
IMO these multiple accounts are doing your site harm and should be blocked.
Now I get the principle of free speech and all that but there a basic steps which could be taken- like one username per email address- which is then verified from within the email account.
If there is bad actors at play then it won’t stop them, but it will make it harder for them- locks only keep out honest people after all.
Also, some sort of IP address comparison where if more than one account is coming from the same IP no- then there is something afoot.
‘the utterly poisonous fad of cancel culture’
There really isn’t such a thing. Linehan made himself toxic. Rowling is doing the same. They have horrible, horrible cheerleaders who will tell them they’re awesome and victimised, and no doubt they get plenty of genuine abuse, if you ignore all the abuse that gets directed at their victims, but it’s not cancel culture, it’s their own embrace of horrible views.
Jaysus…. Does someone have to actually carry out one of the innumerable threats on JK for you to think it means anything.
I guess the next time you speak of someone being picked on or harassed, as you have done on here many times before, anyone reading it can just post a link to your comment here and then kindly request that you just give the hypocrisy a rest.
Does someone have to carry out the innumerable threats her followers inflict on her critics before you’re happy that they’re getting what they deserve for daring to criticise her? Link to this all you like, only your weird reactionary x-ray tunnel vision detects any hypocrisy in it.
How did Rowling make herself toxic Nigel? Please explain
She decided trans women weren’t really women and the whole world had to know before trans women destroyed all women forever.
They’re not. They are men who think they are women and want to identify as women but they are in fact men.
Trans women are women, trans men are men. Gender dyspohria is a recognised medical condition with prescribed treatments, not a mental illness, and not an opportunity for you to be cruel and abusive to people who already have enough to put up with.
Gender dysphoria is a medically recognised mental illness, we can agree on that. It means that you think you are something you are not. Trans women are men who think they are women. Medical intervention is always counselling, and if that’s it enough by giving hormones and ultimately surgically removing the sex organs to help patient ‘feel’ better about themselves. It does not, and cannot, turn a man into a woman.
It is not categorised as a mental illness (and even if it was, so what? Or is the point that trans people are ‘mad?’) Your personal prejudices and non-medical opinions should in no way affect their access to treatment or dictate how they live their lives.
It is by definition a mental illness. I have never sought to belittle that illness in they way you just have. Trans people need support. They do not need to be thrust into yet further unnecessary confrontation which largely only makes matters worse.
Then don’t be confrontational with them.
I hadn’t realised you are Trans Nigel and didn’t set out to hurt or upset you in any way. The vast majority of people have no issue with Trans and I think you’d find them to be genuinely supportive. The choice to set a ‘battle line’ of acceptance in sports is one which can only bring Trans people into unnecessary and unhelpful confrontation for no good reason. To think that an acceptable expression of Trans identity is too deny another person from the traditionally suppressed class of society is just plain wrong and runs counter to the very notion of inclusion and acceptance at the heart of the struggle for Trans rights. Biological men in woman’s sport does no one any good and holds the entire Trans community to ridicule.
beautifully said
Sigh. I’m not trans, but I appreciate the conciliatory tone you adopted, even if I disagree with what you say, it shows a good heart. Trans identity doesn’t deny anybody else their rights. Trans athletes are a minority of a minority, have been allowed to compete in sports in rules enshrined in sporting organisations since at least the 2000s. By definition they are allowed, by definition they are not cheating, by demonstration they neither dominate nor ruin their sports.
Lia Thomas has denied tens if not hundreds of young women their opportunity to progress, and has dismissed the concerns and dreams of thousands.
Lia Thomas came eighth in one of her her recent races. I think you might be grotesquely exaggerating.
That’s right, Nigel, Victim-Blaming.
Well done, callous disregard for the victims, who dared to utter scientific fact, while claiming virtue by championing the poor, misunderstood, psychotic bullies & thugs.
Any interesting, alternative takes on the Shoah, Holodomor or Irish Famine you’d like to share with us?
Have you visited terfisaslur.com, yet?
Then you might actually have a clue what you’re defending.
I get all the abuse and hate I need right here, from you.
Graham admires the work of kiwifarms, if you think ‘cancel culture’ is bad wait until you hear about their suicide counter.
Ah, the bigotry that dare not speak its name.
Point to one single thing that JK has said that has any bigotry.
This request has been posted to anyone who has ever called her such and no one ever has posted any evidence of the accusation.
Good luck with it!
I avoid her like the plague but her lovely comments about the LGTBQ outreach by the Welsh police after the homophobic murder of a gay doctor have come to my attention, which meant I also heard about her sending best wishes to someone who peddles conversion therapy. So she’s actually gotten worse since I last noticed her.
Of course you do! Because YOU HAVEN’T GOT ANY ARGUMENTS!!!
Nothing like the old “I heard a story” line of evidence, that stands up in court right? You’re joke!
Those aren’t ‘arguments’ thse are actual verifiable things that have heppened.
So, you’re the bigot by that admission. Crikey… self awareness, eh.
Yes, like cancel culture is disagreeing with her, bigotry is not liking the views she expresses. Good use of words, Clamps, the best.
Cancel culture has lost hundreds of people work, jobs and positions. Look it up.
People have lost work. You’re ascribing it to something amorphous and undefined called cancel culture. JK Rowling hasn’t lost work. Graham Linehan… well, nobody wants to work with him.
What are you talking about, Nigel, man?
You never shut up.
Seven of the last ten comments on the site are by you, and you’ve 19 comments on this particular thread. I’m not telling you to stop commenting at the frequency that you are, just that throwing that particular admonishment at someone, like you did, is a little contradictory considering your own posting style.
“Cancel Culture” is a myth peddled by people called out for their public commentary/behaviour. It doesn’t exist when the likes of Mel Gibson, Roman Polanski etc still have award winning careers
It’s really consequence culture but the concept of causation seems to elude many of these people.
The concept of Free Speech doesn’t even exist for Totalitarians like you, Ian.
“These people”, lol.
LoL Daisy, are you still pedaling your bull on this? I mean I know the wokeists haven’t even the slightest hint of integrity on this and you completely disappeared when the Judges in the UK called what the Tavistock were doing was the medical experimentation of children… yet here you are again just being toxic as ever and openly gaslighting… just wow…
Aw cute. Another stalker to add to the list.
Aww cute, a fifth columnist who doesn’t think people see her true colours.
I certainly see yours.
Ah, NobleLocks, she’s fantasising that you’re stalking her!
Better watch out there, she could be looking for love!
Cancel culture is not a myth, it’s a fascist cult which attacks and threatens people who have different opinions. Take JK or Graham. They are not saying anything that is actually offensive or abusive. They both simply say that we are all free to make our own decisions and if we want to identify as a different sex then that’s a personal choice. All for the good. However, when they say that, as they have every right to do, they are cancelled. Graham had to resign from the show he co-wrote with his wife. I know for a fact it was a condition from the public funding body that he resign from the show before it could proceed. JK made reasonable comment and had her name taken off the her last film, was removed from all publicity and completely airbrushed out of the Harry Potter 20 year reunion. That’s cancel culture and it’s exactly the same as Nazi Germany and McCarthy’s America.
‘Take JK or Graham. They are not saying anything that is actually offensive or abusive’
Yes they are. They’re free to say it, but other people are free to criticise them for it. You can invoke the abuse they receive, but the abuse flows the other way too, which doesn’t cancel it out, but does remove it as some sort of definitve moral arbiter of the issue.
‘they are cancelled.’
Meaningless. Graham has made his own decisions and decided to make his entire life about this, but that’s on him, other people don’t have to work with him if they don’t want to. JK Rowling has a blockbuster movie and video game based on her work coming out. She’s making millions. It’s absolutely nothing whatsoever like Nazi Germany and McCarhty’s America.
Nigel, you appear to be unable to follows a narrative of discussion. Perhaps wilfully perhaps not. You have however completely supported my contention regarding cancel culture and it’s fascist like McCarthyism. Proving my very point.
Yes, and the unvaccinated were treated like Jews in Nazi Germany, etc etc.
Oh… It is wilful for sure. Its his playbook writ large :)
Nigel, responding to words, with anything other than words, is bullying, When the response to facts being spoken includes sick, twisted threats of sexual & physical violence, the support you give to those bullies marks you at as morally reprehensible, no better than the sickos you defend.
When done by companies, institutions or governments, from a position of power, such threats & exclusion become Authoritarianism. When used to effect negative impacts on people’s real lives, it’s Totalitarianism.
You’re a Woke Fascist, simple as that.
Given your tendency to side with power, it’s clear which way you would’ve swung, had you been around as the Nazis seized power in Weimar.
Or would you have suddenly become a Dissident?
Wow, trans people a tiny marginialised minority are such a threat to you. Or rather, no, they’re a weak vulnerable group for you to terrorise and bully to distract from the fact the people like you are committed to to preventing any efforts to solve any of the actual problems in the world.
PAh c’mon Daisy
Cancelling to suit tastes preferences politics
To order and or Whatever you’re having yourself
Even a simple snot on
Exits
And you know it
You’re way off the mark there, Frilly. Dolly is full to bursting with self-righteous zeal, which alone is enough to justify anything right up to & including physical violence, as far as she’s concerned.
Bash the Fash, don’t you know?
Once labelled by Dolly & her ilk, the opponent is dehumanised & their rights erased. Straight from the NSDA’s playbook. You can’t improve on their methods, so why would Dolly try? She’s looking for the same result, after all. She’s clearly full of hate, violent broiling hatred for anyone with the temerity to hold a view that doesn’t meet her approval.
You don’t see it?
I’m surprised.
off the ball had ross tucker on last monday on this topic. to paraphrase, he said that women’s sport can be inclusive or it can be fair, but it can’t be both due to the inherent advantages an athlete has if they go through puberty as a male. worth a listen:
https://youtu.be/sWgIB-tm5PU
He’s correct.
But pointing facts out is transphobic!
I agree, fupp sprinting against someone who has male puberty or getting in the ring with them…and yes I’m talking about equal levels of fitness, training and weight.
I don’t think it’s necessarily transphobic to discuss trans women in sport, however it is transphobic to focus on it to a degree where you exaggerate the quantity of these instances in a way to make people fearful of trans people that are just trying to go about their daily lives. Trans women in sport is an elite situation with extremely site specific conditions and rules, that doesn’t really apply to the existence of almost every trans person, yet they all have to suffer the consequences of a conservative media and reactionary people now scared out their wits that a trans person is going to beat them in a marathon, even tho they’ve never run a marathon in their lives, or intend on doing so (Janet I know you run so you’re excluded lol).
Last point on this, trans people don’t set the regulations on their qualifying or not for sporting events, the relevant authorities do, but nobody ever seems to have an issue with those groups, rather they take it all out on individual trans people that aren’t actually breaking any rules. If you have an issue with that, go send an email to whoever sets the standards. I’m guessing 99% of the people railing about this online would never bother doing that, preferring to make a nasty sensationalist comment about an individual. That is transphobic.
‘the biggest threats to women in sport comes from sexual violence, discrimination, poor facilities and wages, not from trans athletes’ is also true.
Totally. Just like the main threat to women’s shelters and groups is defunding by conservative governments and local authorities, but it’s helpful for these political groups to market the existential threat as being from a very small group of trans individuals, to distract from their own very damaging political agendas. It’s depressing how easily people are misled by agendas and scare tactics.
It’s not “elite”, it’s happening schools around the world.
In extremely limited circumstances, it’s being exaggerated by the likes of you in order for you to spout your general transphobic nonsense. I doubt you cared one jot about women’s sports until it became convenient for to you to do this. I think it’s very cynical.
good comment Oro
Let us be honest, Clampers, even the facts themselves are transphobic.
To the ideologically inclined, clearly, unfortunately.
The English Independent is spinning so hard it is funny.
Why is it that this issue of transgender people in competitive sports is always about MTF and never FTM?
No matter what their identified gender, biological men have a physical advantage- otherwise what is the point in dividing by sex in the first place?
Probably the only thing I will ever agree with you on.
I’m starting to think that the major appeal of this to some folks is it entrenches the notion that women are physically inferior to men and they must be kept segregated.
What is the point of dividing by sex in competitive sports?
Women athletes might end up being more popular than the men.
You are taking the pee now- you have to be.
The very idea is unthinkable, apparently.
And going from from a mid-500s ranking (554th in the 200 freestyle; all divisions) in men’s competition to one of the top-ranked swimmers in women’s competition was just because of a new hairstyle then was it?
https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/a-look-at-the-numbers-and-times-no-denying-the-advantages-of-lia-thomas/
Yeah, good for her.
Of course good for her- she goes from being rated in the mid five hundreds to the top 5. But what about all those other women who have sacrificed their entire lives training eh?
Or are women’s rights not part of your brave new world? Actually I already know the answer to that- it’s glaringly obvious.
Lots of people sacrifice their entire lives and don’t win. That’s the nature of competitive sport. No one woman has a ‘right’ to win, just like no one man has. You want to help women in sport, give them better access to facilities and funding and provide safeguards from harassment and abuse. This is just a culture war wedge issue. You think they won’t be coming for gay people at some point? They already are in the US, whch is where much of the funding for this anti-trans stuff comes from. More of it came via Putin’s oligarchs, by the way. Your anti-vaxxer and Ukrainian invasion bedfellows.
More money from Putin’s oligarchs is feeding anti-trans sentiment than the money from the US?
You HAVE to back that claim up with something.
And you’ve the neck to call others conspiracy theorists… LOL!
https://bywire.news/articles/millions-of-russian-roubles-funded-far-right-discord-in-europe
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/trump-us-christian-spending-global-revealed/
There are no differences SOQ, that’s just a “notion”.
*sniggers at the stupidity of it*
Given that I am a woman , I think you are way off the mark on that one Nigel. There is absolutely no denying that men and women have different muscle mass etc. I absolutely have no problem with transgender people apart from this . This is going to ruin sports for women . It took long enough for us to be given more access to sports and facilities etc. Why not have transgender sports events?
It really isn’t. Trans women have been competing in women’s sports for decades, somehow completely failing to ruin it, and were part of the same push for more access, more facilities, more training for young girls the whole time, only now to be singled out for attacks like this.
Can you point to where trans women have competed in women’s sports for decades? I’ve not seen or heard anything on that before the last few years and also to where they were pushing for girls to get training etc. Because I’ve been involved in sport (mostly running) for years and I’ve never seen or heard of anything like that. I would absolutely encourage all people to take part in sport but this is definitely going to do damage to women in sport if it continues.
He pulled that gem of a claim out of his rabbit hole!
Jesus… it’s like Ted trying to get Dougal to give examples of sin. Even Dougal was able to say that Lying is a sin. I’d ask why you lie nige but we already know. Your arguments are so transparently weak you have to!
Most sporting organisation have had trans-participation policies since the 2000s, but the history of trans atheltes goes back a lot farther. You tend not to hear about them because they don’t actually dominate just because they’re trans. Good luck doing an internet search to find a good article on it, though, the current ‘controversy’ has clogged the search engines.
Making excuses for his not finding it.
Good cover for your bull poo there Nigel.
Again I have seen nothing on the ground of transpeople participating in women’s sports and there is nothing online to back up what you are saying. There can only have been a handful and if so, there is no way you can say that there have been enough of them participating to prove there was no advantage on their part. I honestly would like to see there being a separate category for transpeople to compete and participate in competitive sports but I definitely think this is ridiculously unfair at the moment.
But you literally only hear about when a conservative hate storm brews up in the incredibly rare cases of one of them winning? (There have been some storms over trans people just participating, but they sort of vanish when they don’t even place, like that weightlifter at the Olympics.) Why punish and segregate them even more just because they’ve become a target of this kind of hate?
And yes, they have been rare, because trans people are relatuvely rare, and they have faced horrible prejudice when they’ve been out and open and public.
Incredibly rare? Any athlete has to win a lot to get to the Olympics and every time they win, or compete highly, is not rare.
Each trans athlete denies dozens of others their fair competition.
Again there have not been enough of them in women’s sport to say definitely they do not have an advantage and there is enough biological evidence to say that they do . It is not segregation when there are separate events for men and women as women quite simply can not physically compete with men’s strength etc and so it would not be segregation if there is a separate category for transpeople. Honestly I think throwing the word segregation into a conversation about sports and the various categories is really a stretch.
Of course they have an advantage, testosterone being just one that was addressed.
The only reason muscle mass and anatomy was not tackled as an advantage was because the Dr’s said they cannot change that advantage. So they basically decided “let’s not go there”.
I’ve posted on that here before, a link to a reputable cycling website did a good analysis on it. It was shocking reading.
Found it…
https://www.velonews.com/news/commentary-the-complicated-case-of-transgender-cyclist-dr-rachel-mckinnon/
Again, they have been and are allowed to participate accoding to the rules of various sporting organisations, and they have done so without ruining women’s sports, and they should not be excluded just based on a reactionary hate camaign.
Yes,.they have been and are allowed participate in women’s event, but that doesn’t mean they should be. I have nothing against the participants themselves, they are just participating in sports that they love and are allowed participate in. But they can still participate in those sports if there was a category specifically for trans people . Biologically they have an advantage in women’s sports and there is far too much grey area about when and how that advantage diminishes after they start treatment. I don’t really care what brought this to light, and I have no doubt there are transphobic people using it as a stick to beat them with but having an opinion that biologically someone born male has an advantage in women’s sports doesn’t automatically make someone transphobic.
@ Dell, do you think there will ever be a point that a trans woman could compete and win in a sport without it being generally described as unfair?
I appreciate that you itemize the unfairness of demonizing the particular sportspeople, and can isolate that your frustration is with the sporting authorities (at least that’s what I get from your comment) but let’s say there is an enormous amount of effort focused on setting the exact regulations to a point where it is absolutely certain that a trans woman no longer benefits physically from their past, would you accept a trans winner in some kind of competition in good faith and without any skepticism?
I’m not trying to catch you out btw I’m genuinely interested.
‘Biologically they have an advantage in women’s sports’
Biologically, everyone who wins has an advantage. But trans people really don’t win that often.
Not necessarily Nigel. All things being somewhat equal , a lot of winners win because they have trained for years and are dedicated and have honed their skills and pushed themselves harder than others .
It seems unfair to suggest trans atheltes haven’t done the same. And again, they don’t actually end up winning that often, and they wouldn’t be the only ones who trained and honed, but didn’t win.
I’ve never said they don’t train hard and I know they are 100% dedicated to their sports like all athletes. But they also have a biological advantage . You said all winners have a biological advantage , I don’t agree.
Ok, Dell. I’m not sure I agree, but ok.
That’s fair enough Nigel, it is a very complicated issue I think and I do admire trans sports people as I think they have to deal with so much hatred and they just want to compete. so as Oro said I really do not have a problem with them but rather how it is being managed by the sports authorities etc. thanks for the discussion all the same.
Yeah Oro, I think I would but I think we are really far from that point right now to be honest. And I’m not sure simple hormones will achieve that. Having developed fully physically as a male is hard to completely undo and I’m not sure they should have to, but when and if they can find ways to level the playing field as such , I don’t think I’d see a problem with them succeeding in their chosen sports.
Appreciate the leveled response. Hopefully we’re closer to that point than you think.
A “notion”…. dang.
And all this time I thought it was biology and anatomy… you know, sex differences. Its all just notional, all this time, simply a suggested difference, purely theoretical and made up.
Thanks Nigel, for setting the record straight.
You’re some fool fella.
Well you’d also have to account for ingrained social misogyny which has excluded and discouraged girls from doing sports in any serious way for many many generations as well. When one gender is encouraged to play sports every day and one isn’t, and the sports played by one gender are funded and publicised and celebrated and the other is ignored and mrginalised, the advantages that accrue don’t derive solely from anatomy or biology. But let’s scapegoat trans women! They’re to blame!
Here we go with the socialisation created the differences in the sexes argument…. Jaysus, you really have swallowed the gender ideology kool aid wholesale… You’ve lost all reason. It’s laughable, sad, and more seriously, it is wholly and utterly misogynist.
You are basically dismissing the whole ‘lowering testosterone for inclusion in women’s sports’ argument right there.
That’s very transphobic of you Nigel!
‘Here we go with the socialisation created the differences in the sexes argument’
Did I say it created the differences? I do believe no such words appeared in my comment. Let me check. Hmm No, they didn’t. In fact they haven’t appeared in any form in any of my comments! And yet it’s the basis for the next few sentencs of childish abuse. I thought you disliked abuse? I do too, but between you and Cavan and a few others here I wonder of you guys really disapporove of it as much as you claim.
Or maybe you are suggesting that men and women’s testosterone would see some leveling of equal measure….
That’d be some laugh if you were suggesting that. It’s just so hard to tell with your nonsense sometimes.
But thanks for the chuckles :)
‘Or maybe you are suggesting’
The number of times you’ve whined about me using the phrase ‘so you’re saying’ and yet here you are entirely relying on putting words in my mouth. You clealry spend way more time obsessing about testosterone than I do.
nige quote…I’m starting to think that the major appeal of this to some folks is it entrenches the notion that women are physically inferior to men and they must be kept segregated. /nige quote
Just LoL Looooolllllll.
You’re hilarious
I am, amn’t I? I can tell by the sniggers and lols.
But women are very definitely physically inferior to men in terms of strength and endurance. Thats simple biology.
The gap in physical performance between women and men at high, or even medium level, sport is huge. Attempting to deny the physical differences between them is just denying biology.
Small point of clarification. Women are better than men at high levels of endurance – for example ultra marathons.
But for the majority of sports men outcompete women. (there are some niche sports where the strength isn’t important – e.g. shooting or horse-riding).
But perhaps we should shake up sport and rather than have it divided on sex, to categorise by height or weight. We already do that for boxing to make it fair for smaller people; extend it to all sports. e.g. race #1 100m for both men and women who are under 1.6m and 65kg;
race #2 100m for both men and women who are 1.6-1.7m and 66-70kg;
…
No, Cian that’s idiotic nonsense. Pound for pound, men have 30% – 40% more upper body strength than women.
No, Cian, women can not outperform men in ultra marathons & why should they have to?
I can’t believe I’m having to explain basic biology to a grown adult. You really are a simpleton, if you actually believe the tripe you’re spouting.
Wokies live in a fantasy world, which is fine, they’re children, after all, it’s when they try to impose their fantasy on reality that the trouble starts.
beat me to it Cian
for the endurance part in long long runs….but that’s it
As is the Gender nonsense, Zaccone.
Seeing a pattern?
Denial of reality, in an attempt to impose their mental abstractions on a world that won’t, that simply cannot, co-operate.
This is the wishful thinking that signifies arrested mental & social development, they are refusing to engage with the world as adults.
Your head must be the shape of a corkscrew, dude, to contain such twisted reasoning. Those championing women’s right to compete on a level playing field, against their peers, are doing it because they hate women?
Same for those insisting on women-only spaces, I suppose & the corollary is that excluding women from victory in their own sports is somehow supportive of women?
I’m reminded of your exchange with Micko yesterday, you do think you’re always right, even when you’re obviously wrong, don’t you, Nigel?
I have to admit, I remember feeling that burning desire to always be the one in the right, I had to confront it in myself when I was about 14. Like most people, however, I got to grow the hell up & funnily enough, sports played a big part in that.
It’s a pity you didn’t play any sports, Nigel.
I guess that means you argue your postition because you passionately believe you are wrong. Actually that would make sense.
When do you intend to confront your social inelegance K.?
I was a Welterweight boxer, SOQ, I’m sure I would’ve loved to be allowed fight Lights, Flys, Feathers & Bantams, I could’ve retired, undefeated. That’s how much difference a few pounds can make in a sport, the 40% to 50% upper body strength that anyone who’s gone through male puberty has over a woman is far, far more telling.
These people are cheats, plain & simple. Lia Thomas, he’s a cheat & so are all the sports bodies & administrators that abet this misogyny.
Just as bad, perhaps worse, are the Autogynephiles, men who get sexually aroused by seeing themselves as women & who get a thrill by invading Women’s Spaces & displaying just how turned on they are, in a way that would get you or I, correctly, prosecuted as Sex Pests.
That is my tuppence on the subject.
https://www.broadsheet.ie/2022/03/21/inclusive-2/#comment-2410798
Great summation, SOQ.
There are people who have genuine Gender Dysphoria, I count one as a dear friend but even she is disparaging about the “freaks” (her words) glomming onto this as a way of shouting out “I’m special, treat me differently from the ordinary ones”.
I do wonder if some of the commentators here are really aware of what they’re talking about, of what’s really going on or are they just mindless bandwagon-jumpers, virtue-signallers “Supporting The Current Thing” as that meme portrays.
For sportswomen, this is weaponised compassion, in extremis.
Oh I’d say you’re so so tough..
Personally I’m terrified.
All it takes is for some vengeful Japanese woman to take control of our screens and K. Cavan will be crawling through the screen in his tattered white dress and lank greasy locks ready to punch us to death.
THE.
HORROR.
:O
You need to stop smoking that skunk, man. It’s bad for your mental health, cruel to the animals & we won’t even go there about the smell.
Or have you just soiled yourself, again, Ian? Observing the ordure you’re typing there, I suspect it’s the latter.
Don’t worry, K. Cavan doesn’t have the energy. He spends most of his time holding his manhood in his hands and cursing what the steroids have done to it.
Yeah, I am, creep.
Albeit in a welterweight way. Obviously, you have no clue about sports, so have no idea what that actually means, do you, creep?
Big tough lad on t’internet! I have no doubt you are a useless runt. A welterweight punchbag.
I have no doubt about that either.
The type of runt in the litter who gets offered to take a fall against a real boxer by a back alley Asian gambling syndicate.
K, you should give that segment from off the ball a listen. sport is absolutely scrambling for a solution and they’ve settled on testosterone levels as a panacea. unfortunately that ignores the puberty element and it seems sporting organisations are happy to pass the buck on a very complex and emotive issue instead of looking at the data and settling on a policy that suits everyone.
also, there’s a genuine safety and security issue for women involved in contact sports such as martial arts and boxing having to compete against another with previous male advantage.
Absolutely, I will, scottser. The testosterone thing is utter bullcrap, as I’m sure you know & a woman has already suffered a fractured skull in an MNA bout against a man who claims to be a woman.
Once a male puberty occurs, it’s effects cannot be reversed.
You’re absolutely right K Cavan. These men are selfish cheats who need to be called out.
… https://youtu.be/GEQV-yR6l08
Add to the fact that it’s completely unsportsmanlike or unsportspersonlike to play in a game where you have an unfair advantage. They shouldn’t want to compete. It shows then to be the horrible people they are. If they had a shred of integrity they would form a trans sports and play with themselves (which is what they do in every other facade of their lives anyway). What is happening is the worst form of bullying of men against women.
Absolutely, a man suffering from Gender Dysphoria will be more concerned with “passing”, appearing as female, & wants his tackle removed not to tackle women on a sportsfield.
Are you actually a child?
@ CC I would have said that sex trafficking of women, workforce discrimination, physical and sexual abuse by partners, or rape (just off the top of my head) are more obviously terrible forms of bullying by men against women. I think it’s weird to see you rank trans women competing in sports as worse than those.
+1
A short visit to terfisaslur.com will open the gates of hell for anyone who doesn’t know how vicious, how vile, how psychotic is the behaviour of those who label themselves “trans activists” for the purposes of their mysogynistic crusade.
I just tried to access terfisaslur.com, actually, to find it’s been censored from my search engine. Goodbye Duckduckgo, you disgusting scumbags, I’ve just installed Brave.
We all THINK we live in a “Free Society” but nothing could be further from the truth.
Were currently living in the most viciously, systematically, politically censored period of the modern era but that’s what the “Woke Liberals” bring to the party.
Been using Brave for quite some time and cannot fault it. Apart from the privacy points, it is also faster and easier on resources than Chrome. I also use Brave search and again- very good.
You’re using the Brave browser, SOQ?
I’ve merely installed the search engine into Firefox. I’ll see how it goes, I got the terfisaslur site immediately, with it, nowhere to be seen on DDG.
This is a good example of the assorted culture war tropes wielded by right wing extremists who have absolutely no solutions to offer all the problems currently facing the world so they decided to single out a few marginalised groups and claim that they are evil monsters victimising the ‘silent’ majority just by existing and occasionally pushing back aganst hatred and prejudice. Does this adress climate change? No. The Pandemic? No. Corruption? No. The accumulation of wealth in the hands of a tiny percentage of the population? No. Low wages, high rents, housing, job security, food security, anything real at all? No way. But every now and then a trangender woman wins a race and it’s a full scale assault on civilisation.
My God, Nigel, you are a complete lunatic, there’s no other rational response to your drooling, gibbering rants. You need help, dude, you’re clearly in deep psychological & emotional distress & seeing you openly display it in these rants is painful & embarrassing. Every posting is a clear cry for help. Are you experiencing problems with substance abuse, Crack Cocaine, Fentanyl, maybe? That would explain a lot.
You should be banned from this forum, for your own good & the benefit of rational debate. That would force you out of the closet, you’d expose those closest to you to the dreadful state you’re in & undoubtedly, they’d assist you in seeking professional help.
Alternatively, try showing your companions these posts, they’ll know what to do.
Best of luck, I wish you a speedy recovery, you’ll be in my prayers.
Oh, how those trans people and their supporters inflict such terrible personal abuse on their helpless victims!
Go onto terfisaslur.com, Nigel, then come back, if you dare & tell us you have seen a more disgusting, sick display of psychotic evil, ever, anywhere.
Do it or STFU, you gurning lunatic.
You’re defending pure, unadulterated evil & misogynistic violence, you’re an utter disgrace.
Ah Nordie, whilst I don’t agree with Nigel on the trans stuff, you clearly are the demented one. Get out of that box room
Go read JK Rowling’s twitter followers on her critics if you want to see some other abuse, then read your own comments for a nice example of some sick psychotic stuff and then come back and tell me what you’re defending.
You first, Nigel.
Yes, Nigel, they do. Of course you probably think it’s ok to destroy someone’s career, to terrify people into submission, for daring to disagree with the Official Narrative. Right?
Very Right, I’d say.
I know what you are, Nigel.
Excellent post. +1
BTW if anyone wants to see how harmless these poor victim so called “trans” people are just check out https://transcrimeuk.com and that’s just for the UK folks….
These are the men that Daisy and Nigel want to protect. These are the men whose feelings Daisy and Nigel put above the rights of women and the safety of children. They tell you it’s all a big conspiracy.
@Daisy… which one of the men on transcrimeuk.com would be your favourite example of a poor trans victim?
Ah, so like objecting to the war is protecting Nazis, objecting to discrimination and prejudice is protecting sex criminals? Wasn’t that the line used against gay rights in general back in the day? Wow, we have come back to this again.
Is it okay to call someone who claims all trans people are sex crmiinals a transphobe? Or would that be abusing the poor flower with hate speech?
Giddy up, Nigel, my fine daughter, giddy up, Nigel if you can, giddy up Nigel my fine daughter, show your legs to the countryman.
I get it, now, I think, you’re trying to squeeze every single Logical Fallacy onto a Strawman’s back & ride it, ride it, into the sunset?
Poor nige, he’s just not well in the head.
All these trans people and activists lashing out with all this abuse!
Oh Nigel EVERYTHING Is transphobic lol EEEEEVVVVEERRRYYYTTTHHHIINNNGGG! Especially when gay men refuse to sleep with trans identified women, that’s Deeply transphobic. The Autogynephiles you refuse to admit exist have got the BBC to rewrite their language guidelines to say that being Gay is “same Gender identified” and not “Same Sex”. You do know that don’t you? I mean it’s not like I didn’t warn you about this years ago…
And I love the way you continue to conflate the whole Gay thing with the T’s. Dude Everything after LGB is straight, you do know that don’t you? Societal guilt over how the gays were treated doesn’t count for AGP males.
What do you call it when you double down on a double down…? I call it a Nigel. You’re pulling a Nigel dude and you need to stop, we can all see you and most of us now can see the Autogynephiles for what they are too.
Call me whatever you want, you won’t change me or change the reality that you and your pearl clutching, Helen Lovejoy, “won’t someone please think of the trans” ilk are being used by deeply disturbed AGP fetishists as a vanguard to sate their fantasies.
‘Oh Nigel EVERYTHING Is transphobic lol’
No. LITERALLY it was JUST that thing you said that was transphobic, and nothing else.
In that comment. EVERYTHING you wrote in this comment? Yeah, very transphobic.
Dropping DuckDuckGo? How very Cancel Culture of you!
Well hello Dolly….
you’re still glowin’, you’re still crowin’, you’re still going strong….
Dolly’s overjoyed & overwhelmed & over par…
Come on, everyone, join in…. clap those hands, no, on the two, not the one, bloody wypepo…no sense of rhythm.
DuckDuckGo sold out and are using Google’s indexing now- do try to keep up Dolly.
Keep up with conspiraloons like you and KCavan? No thanks. I’ll leave you out “in front” where I know I can keep well away from you.
Yes well- not everyone can be trail blazers I suppose.
Have you got your Ukrainian Nazi mask yet? Your Azuv mug from amazon?
Fair play Sonia, completely agree.
Yeah totally agree with Sonia… it’s bloody farcical, if its allowed why even bother separating men and women
The main reason they’re seperated is because after the war, all the women who had taken over playing sports were in danger of being more popular than the men. It’s not trans womens fault generations and generations of women were coompletely excluded from sports and then when they finally got to play at a competitive level they had to be quickly sidelined to spare the feelings of the men.
See, I told you folks, Nigel is in big trouble. Has anyone got a tranquilizer gun, it’s not safe to approach him in this state, he could say or do literally anything.
The shark has been well & truly jumped, today.
Oh my goodness me!
The article is about the unfair advantage that men who transition to women have in women’s sports…no? If a woman who transitions to male wants to take part in male sports…have at it, think it would be very unfair for them though.
What about the “unfair advantage” of the lads I knew who did very well in sport, such as parents who’d drive them to practice or pay for extra coaching, not having to take on a part-time job, being born in August instead of January, and so on.
This whole thing gets so bizarre I’ve no idea if that’s a joke or not….I’m going with very very dry sarcasm
Yes, Mick, Nigel will probably have some bizarre take on that too, maybe it’s unfair to U16s to be prevented from playing with the U20s?
Age, like sex, is probably a social construct & eventually all animals will evolve to find a biological use for 153 genders. I mean, what is a year? We must question everything, deconstruct everything, otherwise how do we get to impose our will on the unwilling?
Maybe they just want to participate and compete, sports are supposed to be fun.
Professional sports are far from fun- they are deadly serious.
Imagine dedicating your whole life to a sport and then have the cup stolen from you in such a manner?
It’s not right and it’s not fair and it is doing the wider transgender community no favours either.
Imagine…not winning? Wouldn’t want to be a professional athlete who couldn’t handle not winning.
no it’s about winning
It’s probably about billons in TV and sponsorship deals.
Winning or not winning, it’s about testing yourself & your limits. You can’t test yourself against people who are inferior, you need to get beaten to get better. That’s the essence of sport. That’s the fun.
And lo & behold, if you keep competing with superior athletes or even chess players, you get better & it’s even more fun.
Just to apply some Real World perspective, the Irish Boys (Under 17) 100 metres sprint record is a couple of a hundredths of a second faster than the European Women’s record.
When, eventually, that record is broken, it’s highly unlikely that the woman will actually be ethnically European.
That’s another kettle of…. fish.
Why I genuinely don’t follow?
Cavan is racist as well as transphobic and just plain abusive and hateful to anyone who disagrees with them.
LOL..fair enough, explains why I didn’t get it
not sure how the thread was turned into being about racial makeup but should all just comply with the kind of rhetoric Daisy chainsaw and other commenters are ?
seems to me if it was about spreading love then liberals wouldnt have started justifying dozens of deadly Islamic attacks on western nations as being our price to pay for the evil warmongering yanks- I must have missed the part where Danes, Spaniards, Irish etc are responsible for the daily misery of Arabs
Where does Daisy Chainsaw make reference to racial makeup, other than in a musical reference to previous comments which was hardly rhetorical?
It seems to be more your thing to introduce the issue of race.
Incidentally, Denmark and Spain sent troops to Iraq in the illegal invasion of 2003. Allegations of torture were made against Spanish troops. In addition, a number of Spanish intelligence agents were shot and beaten to death near Mahmudiya in late 2003.
yeah the ethnicity thing is bull, you’re born in Europe, you’re European.
Absolutely, Smurfs* included .. !
In the immortal words of Jay Bulworth:-
““All we need is a voluntary, free-spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction. Everybody just gotta keep fuppin’ everybody ’til they’re all the same color.”
What we need is a great big melting pot…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naLnOMbtZoY
I’m on it Ferg
Europeans (indigenous, such as Anglo Saxons cos im not dumb enough to speak like a caller did to Maajid Nawaz who has done very well to come back from being an anti west fundamentalist muslim) where he said ‘he has no place in Britain’ )) are seeing a record low birth rate of around 1.2 /1.3 at the moment, compared to Afro islamic culture which is booming in terms of reproduction, these facts arent racist this is why ‘European’ isnt going to look good in the very near future because European will just be consumed by Afro-islamic peoples. this is cause for concern, especially considering their staunch opposition to us living and reproducing in their lands
The US women’s Olympic 100m sprint record, that has stood for decades, gets beaten every year by multiple high school boys.
Theres just no comparison in performance between the sexes, its hilarious that Nigel is apparently either completely unaware or unaccepting of this.
Forcing women to compete with men would just rob them of any chance of performing at high level sports, its the most anti-feminist thing you could do.
‘Theres just no comparison in performance between the sexes’
There’s no comparison in how social attitudes and misogyny have shaped the participation of the sexes in sports, and the outcomes. Maybe the fastest women will never be as fast as the fastest men, or maybe they will, but if things keep going the way they’re going, I’ll bet the gap will get a lot closer.
You’re an idiot.
This is cancel culture.
Zaccone is correct.
“Maybe the fastest women will never be as fast as the fastest men, or maybe they will”
No, they never will. We know this because of science. They biologically can’t be.
This is like arguing that maybe a 10 year old child athlete “might” lift a heavier weight than a 25 year old athlete. Or might perform better at international rugby. They can’t, and won’t ever. Because thats the way biology works.
Weren’t you one of the posters all lockdown insisting we “follow the science”? The science here isn’t remotely debatable.
We follow the science, but I also have a belief in human potential.
It’s a religious level of science denying belief, truth be told.
Medical interventions and cyborgs don’t count, by the way.
Excellent point, Zaccone, pathetic response by Nigel. Science is obviously a moveable feast in Nigel’s mind.
Shutting down debate is de facto, the opposite of science. What we can be certain about is that as women approach the level of elite performance of men in many areas, there will be an armchair army of spayed, “notionally” male makeweights to speculate they must be secretly men, and that’s how they are doing it!
Utter rubbish, Nigel. Total garbage, you’ve never played sports & you’re just denying basic biology, which will continue, despite your dearly-held but silly opinions, to enforce reality on all who exist there. You swim in a sea of ignorance, gamboling in the waves with cheats like Lia Thomas.
You are an active, virulent Misogynist but probably too demented by dogma to see it.
Get back to me in a hundred years.
I love Graham Linehan. I love his work. He is right and I hope he stays strong.
He is, Frank. He’s been battered but he’s still standing & has good people around him.
Poor ickle SOQ being minded by Bodger yet again.
Creeping through the jungle comes…a creep.
Your “trash-talk” is very very weak.
I hear his jab and his uppercut are much the same
Linehan is spot on.
If a man doesn’t have gender reassignment and wants to wear women’s clothes he’s a cross-dresser not a woman.
What if hes waiting for gender reassignment ?
He’d be a very cross dresser?
There is only a waiting list insofar as psychological states of mind need to be carefully assessed, before such a life-changing step, especially since detransitioning has become such a common, sometimes tragic situation.
Whataboutery, Gavin, TBH.
Our elites are extremely enthusiastic about Trans Issues, no expense spared.
I’m cross-dressing today in trousers and a shirt!
The Guardian’s data analyst seems to fundamentally misunderstand a normal distribution. GENERALLY someone who has grown to near-adulthood as a biological male will have a physical edge over biological women, that doesn’t require Lia to be a better swimmer than every woman in the world to hold true.
As Thomas’ transition has continued her performance has become less vastly dominant. So maybe they just need to further adjust the rules on how far along a transition has to be before an athlete can switch over.
Wishful thinking, Termagant, the effects of a normal male puberty are irreversible, with current medical science. It’s simply not possible to reduce upper body strength with drugs, without serious health issues, even death & that’s just one factor.
Our bodies, our physiques are Neolithic, men hunted, women looked after the cave & the babies, no matter how divorced from reality our minds may become. Perhaps if we stick around for a few hundred thousand years, changes may occur but the former is unlikely & the latter not within our control.
K.Cavan, believe it or not, it was women who did the hunting, fishing and gathering during the Mesolithic period in Ireland while the men sat on their a****. Very basic – I know, but from c.4,900 BC the men realised that the wimmen couldn’t keep carryin’ de babys and cook n’ hunt n’ build de houses and cut down trees ta farm de land with flint alone – that’s why they settled and adapted farming techniques during the Neolithic period..
If you ever have the opportunity to meet an archaeologist, avail of their insight and knowledge.