Mariupol, Ukraine with the Azovstal Iron and Steel Works plant behind buildings damaged in the course of Ukraine-Russia conflict

This morning.

Via The Guardian:

Russia has claimed it has captured the besieged southern port city of Mariupol, with the exception of the Azovstal metallurgical plant, where about 2,000 Ukrainian fighters are holding out. The Russian president, Vladimir Putin, has ordered the plant to be blockaded, but cancelled plans to storm it.

More as we get it.

Russian defence minister claims to have captured Mariupol – reports (The Guardian)

Reuters

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104 thoughts on “Men Of Steel”

      1. Harry

        No from me
        They are apparently the azov batallion and mercenaries
        And zelensky is insisting that Russia allow the civilians trapped evacuation but that includes some of the most brutal azov brigades of neo Nazis and the mercenaries
        I suppose the Russians would agree for a ceasefire to evacuate the civilians if asked
        And the latest is Putin has decided to now lay siege to the steel factory and civilians are beginning to trickle out

    2. Mr. T

      Great contribution andrew – your bitterness towards another broadsheet commenter really adds context to the news we get here.

      1. Frank

        Agreed. If SOQ’ comments are so unbearable don’t read them. The constant baiting & taunts are unacceptable and often refer to SOQs sexuality which is downright bullying of the worst order.
        I’m quite sure SOQ has a thick skin but really BROADSHEET do more to moderate these trolls.
        Keep kicking against the pricks SOQ

        3. Tom J

          Some people need to be called out for the lies and rubbish they post. Take it any way you like I don’t give a fcuk.

          4. Tom J

            You think I’m wound up, it will take more than a sniveling little excrement stirrer to wind anybody up. You sit back and encourage SOQ to do all the dirty work while you pretend to support him.

        4. E'Matty

          +1 the repeated reference to SOQs sexuality has no place in these heated debates. SOQ has the full support of many of us here. Those who disagree need to respect our right to disagree with one another and engage in debate. If uniformity of opinion is what they want, the dribblers over at the Journal might be more their scene.

          1. paul

            I’ll admit to some of that only in the line of being aghast and disturbed that a gay man would support a regime that hates gay people. SOQ’s life is their own and not for criticism, the phrase “you do you” seems apt, it’s not for anyone to attack things that are outside of another person’s control.

      2. andrew

        I respectfully disagree.

        SOQ makes deliberately offhand comments with pointed lies and falsehoods designed to further his anti-Ukraine, pro-Putin agenda. I think it’s absolutely fair and reasonable that he be challenged on these. And I think it shows disrespect to this site that he flounces off to make them again on another thread, refusing to engage. He made two in particular yesterday (of a great many during the day) that I called him out on. Both are lies. I want him to explain why he lies the way he does. It’s telling that you take offense at my response to his lies, but not to the actual lies or the actual liar.

        1. SOQ

          You wouldn’t know respect if it walked up and pee’d on your bloody leg- take your obsessive abusive bullying somewhere else.

    3. jonjoker

      It’s really sad that the first comment doesn’t even refer to the topic.
      Shame on you Andrew.

      1. Mad

        Agree. Despicable.

        I am glad and also grateful that several people now appear to themselves clearly see what I was saying a few days ago and have rallied round to salvage the integrity of the site.

        Are you taking note there, broadbag?

        1. andrew

          Yes…. “several people”

          You’re at least 4 of them.

          Can we hear more about your information about Roger Cloutier, Elvis and Shergar inside the iron works, please?

          2. andrew

            Ah apologies

            YOU are the one with the Cloutier “information”

            Poor little MeSoHarney with his TikTok education

  2. bell

    Putin wants a media event showing the Ukrainian soldiers surrendering instead of Russian soldiers in body bags.

    1. Mr. T

      Azovstal is seen as a kind of landmark of soviet industry, an icon. Destroying it would not not look good.
      Not to mention the refurb costs. Its already been damaged enough no doubt, they dont need any more done.

      Plus, azovstal has a huge network for tunnels underneath built in the cold war. Strategically it makes more sense to besiege it than try and enter

      1. SOQ

        US Col. Doug Macgregor pointed this out way back- that Russia did not want to invade Ukraine but to install a new regime instead. And that there was no point in doing that if it created huge resentment from the ordinary Ukrainians. and therefore would not last.

        1. Nigel

          How were they going to do one without the other? Given that they’re already forcibly relocating thousands of Ukrainians it seems clear that ethnic cleansing was always the plan.

          1. NM

            Wasn’t it Ukraine who started Ethnic cleansing in 2014? ye, pretty sure it was. When Ukraine started restricting the use of the Russian language it’s becomes very easy to identify the cleanser.

          2. Nigel

            So you’re on here justifying Russia’s ethnic cleansing by accusing Ukraine of something-or-other eight years ago? Didn’t Putin start an ethnic conflict in Ukraine that lead to to deaths of thousands? Then invaded and caused the deaths of thousands more? He’s displaced millions, forcibly relocated thousands, almost certainly has plans to setlle Ukraine with ethnic Russians and turn what’s left of Ukraine into a vassal state. Does none of this matter?

        2. andrew

          Probably should have thought about that before they started raping, torturing, murdering civilians, looting and vandalizing and so on.

          You likely have a lie ready to respond with, right?

          1. E'Matty

            Andrew swallowing whole without question all claims of Russian wrongdoing. No surprise there anyway.

        1. Nigel

          A fairer assumption would be that Russians are invading places where civilians live, killing them and trapping them and besieging them.

          2. bisted

            …the Russian stated objective has been to denazify and demilitarise…if they were intent on killing civilians then could have launched a shock and awe attack without putting a foot on the ground…the chosen tactic of sleepy Joe when he was vice-president…

          3. Mr. T

            Azov requested another evacuation corridor for civilians in Azovstal – funny how said civilians were not allowed leave during previous evacuations, only civilians still trapped are the ones in same place as Azovs last stand. Almost as if they want them there for cover

          4. Nigel

            26,000 dead in a sepoeratist conflict started by Putin. And yet still the Russians were shocked by the resistance they encountered?

            ‘he Russian stated objective has been’

            WMDs! Oh, sorry, wrong imperialist warmongers.

            ‘if they were intent on killing civilians’

            If it wasn’t their intention they fecked that up by killing thousands of them.

          5. Me So Harney

            So Kiev mercilessly kills 26000 Russian speaking Ukrainians and you think there’s no threat to Russia..?

          6. Nigel

            ‘ funny how said civilians were not allowed leave during previous evacuations’

            Almost like the Russians wouldn’t let them.

          7. bisted

            …the Russians definitely have WMDs Nigel…they tested their latest missile yesterday…keep poking…

          8. Nigel

            But Ukraine don’t. You’re saying it’s okay to invade another country on a made-up pretext if you have nukes? Wow, that’s you supporting all US wars, then.

          9. bisted

            …well…I did think the yanks were right to confront the Soviets over the Cuban missile crisis…it was existential then as the Russian action is existential now…

            …and…weren’t the Russians right to take back their nukes from an increasingly volatile Ukraine…

          10. Nigel

            Except it’s not existential. Ukraine poses zero threat to Russia.

            They took them back in exchange for leaving Ukraine alone. They did not leave Ukraine alone.

          11. bisted

            …correct Nigel…after this Ukraine will pose much less of a threat to Russia…don’t you think it ironic though that the incident that precipated all this was a facist mob taking control of the Capitol building and overthrowing the democratically elected government?

          12. Nigel

            Ukraine was never a threat to Russia. That was not an inciting incident, just a setback to Putin’s plans to control Ukraine. Why the support for this blatant imperialism?

  3. Broadbag

    Well if there’s one word I associate with Putin it’s ‘reasonable’, no doubt about it.

  4. Jo

    Somewhat weird that we have not seen a live interview with Putin during this.

    It’s as if they don’t want you to hear what he has to say…

    1. paul

      there was that weird green-screened interview early on where his arm kept vanishing. He’d been (badly) edited to appear that he was in the room with all the other people present. May have been in a bunker or up a mountain.

    2. E'Matty

      It’s been the way of Western media for years now. They tell us what they want us to believe he’s said. They never actually show his interviews to allow the viewer make up their own minds. They’ll make them up for us.

  5. NM

    There is some information that the Ukrainians are using human shields so Putin unwilling to fall into the trap.

        1. NM

          and the source for this, ‘mass graves filled with civilians murdered by Russian troops’. Has to be legitimate and not state affiliated.

          3. E'Matty

            Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch. Both Western controlled groups who have often sold the narrative of Western interests. What objectively verifiable evidence have they provided to support claims that Russian troops were responsible for these acts?

          4. Nigel

            ‘Western controlled.’ What a meaningless, thought-ending category. If you want to judge their evidence, go read their reports, simply search their name + Ukraine to see their reports. (Which, by the way, include many over the years highly critical oif Ukraine.)

        2. Duncan Wheeler

          We should stop feeding this troll by not responding to his 1 track mond. Hopefully he might go away.

          3. Nigel

            If Ukrainians = Nazis, as Russian state media claims, then there are thousands of dead Ukrainians safe from thousands of dead Nazis.

          5. E'Matty

            Except Nigel, you cannot say who actually killed those Ukrainians. Lots of videos online of ordinary Ukrainians expressing shock that their own forces fired on them when they tried flee the worst affected areas. Plenty from Mariupol where the Azov Nazis have been the dominant Ukrainian military force. The local population has a significant ethnic Russian portion too.

          6. Nigel

            ‘Disgusting comment yet again.’

            Why? Am I supposed to be happy that Russian state media equates Ukraine, and the entire west, with Nazism, therefore everyone Russia kills is a Nazi? That IS a disgusting message, but it’s the message Russia is sending out, and one you and SOQ and bisted and others are amplifying.

            ‘you cannot say who actually killed those Ukrainians’

            If you’re suggesting that the rocket and artillery bombardments on cities couldn’t have killed any civilians, you’re being ridiculous. If you’re accepting Russian-made videos as ecidence while decrying ‘western controlled’ human rights agencies, you’re being, frankly, pro-war.

            I don’t doubt the Ukrainian Nazis are capable of atrocities. I don’t accept Russian media sources as proof of them. I doubt they can match the scale of the Russian forces in civilian deaths.

          8. Nigel

            ‘Won’t change anything..’

            It certainly won’t bring the people Putin murdered back to life, whether he claims they’re Nazis or not.

          9. Me So Harney

            Nor the 26000 documented dead Russian speaking Ukrainians, shelled for 8 years by your beloved innocent Kiev, that you’re currently peeing all over..

          10. Nigel

            The ones who died in the conflict started by Putin that you are trying to use to justify more thousands murdered by Putin.

      2. SOQ

        There is something explosive in there- whiter it be people or something else- Putin is handling the situation with kid gloves.

        I very much doubt if it is the women and kids civilian angle- even the western media has dropped that- they had plenty of time to evacuate such.

      3. NM

        Again ,take a breath Nigel. All this emotion and outrage doesn’t help. Facts are facts ,just getting angry won’t change that.

        1. Nigel

          Yes, it’s a fact that Putin has murdered thousands through interfering with and invading Ukraine, and you try to justify and minimise it, and amplify Russian propaganda.

  7. Maura

    I wish to endorse the first tranche of comments on this article about trolling comments. I left politics.ie because of persistent trolling and the destruction of brain cells that it induces – had hopes for a more intelligent standard from this site but alas and alack.

    1. E'Matty

      I would suggest that some, like Andrew, are here specifically to bring down the tone of discussion and ensure readers stay away from what can often become a rather poisonous environment for debate.

  8. NM

    @Nige Switch off the outrage for a sec, it’s nauseating . You can if you like describe 13,000 + plus dead “something-or-other” but then you don’t get to pretend you care about anybody.
    Nazis aren’t a ethnicity so Putin is not ethnic cleansing. Particularly those Nazis that you would happily arm
    Ukraine was a vassal state before Putin gave any orders. I presume you’ve heard of Victoria Nuland?

    2. Nigel

      13,00+ deaths in a conflict started and armed and funded by Putin. yes, it is vile and disgusting of Putin to cause so many deaths.

      ‘Nazis aren’t a ethnicity so Putin is not ethnic cleansing.’

      If he maintains that Ukrainians who fight back against Russia = Nazis, he is. Unless the thousands he’s forcibly relocated are Nazis, he is. Actually, even if they are Nazis, it’s still a war crime.

      An elected leader getting so unpopular he runs away from his office doesn’t make Ukraine a vassal state. Awfully kind of you to assume Putin wasn’t interfering with Ukraine before, or even during, that.

      1. Me So Harney

        No Nigel, your comment is disgusting. Now you’re running for cover attempting to legitimate.

        Busted flush.

        1. Nigel

          Your support of a genocidlal war is disgusting. My comment that Putin doesn’t care about civilian casuallties is just the truth.

      2. NM

        Interesting that you took 10,000 off the total number of dead. What’s 10,000 dead civilians if they’re not topical.

        1. Nigel

          ‘Not topical.’ You mean, you’re more interested in people already dead (thanks to Putin) than in people who are being killed right now (thanks to Putin)?

  10. stephen moran

    For any history buffs out there the peerless Adam Tooze has written a fascinating piece on the history of the Azovstal steel works and there wider socio-economic / political significance to both Ukrainian history and folklore .

    https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJxVkttu4jAQhp-G3IFs50By4QtaljbLEqmUsqU3kWNPiEliR7EDhKevKdJKK_kgzT_zjzTfcGbhqPuRdtpY7_7kduyAKriYBqyF3hsM9LkUlJDEJ3Hge4IGAsdh7EmTlz1Ay2RDbT-A1w1FIzmzUqt7BU5cfuhVtOAsQigSScFEWSRQlhgFiCUFT9gc4-LRmA1CguJA4Qz9qBV4Da2s7czEX0zIyh0mWGu1vsHMDIWxjNczrlsndO7yivW20LqeYhxM2U2fXUYzbVkvh043zmVldQ1q4i9h_I052Y-fpKnTkx43p_q2OR3RZrxI_pLcxCrpvp7TKNulaLNMr9lpYdK2qYSLbXYH7GKB067Z80Wyz-zmPCR_3cs_u1_h3Sd7T02qMnyQaZSqpzP33yxv99XB33YFCWT5NtsmL7uPjzmsv3J2_Vjjp3m6i7vXbFir_NIuzHxjtu9maYu_tScpQYSgAMeY-D4JZv4sDrEPSRknbqAEGJsEqD2S_8bi9bTVPVPGQleBwgghl3W80_qRHazc_e2gpB1zUKxoQDw42sc6_JDNj6Cgd2sicmYpjkJE4pDggCTRA5sDHZIAERwhz_UX2lUp-g_VNz0WztE

  11. NM

    Boris Johnson has urged the Russian government to treat the Briton detained in Mariupol while fighting on the side of the Ukrainian government forces “humanely and compassionately.”

    Here is what we (Russ Gov) have to say in this respect.

    Boris, we know that you personally and your Government have disavowed the British subjects who have fallen victim to British propaganda and went to Ukraine as mercenaries to kill people there.

    Don’t pretend to be worried. You are utterly unconcerned about the fate of Britons in trouble. They didn’t drink champagne with you at Downing Street, and so they can wait for your protection till kingdom come.

    I would like to tell the following to those Britons who are concerned about their compatriots: Don’t worry, Russia is taking care of them. They are given food and drink, as well as any other assistance they may need, just as the other foreigners who have surrendered or have been detained.

    Unlike the Ukrainian fighters who brutally kill prisoners and torture civilians, the Russian Armed Forces are committed to humanitarian law. If there were no media censorship in Britain, everyone there would know this.

    At the same time, we urge the British authorities to treat the citizens of Ukraine “humanely and compassionately,” as Boris Johnson said, by stopping the delivery of weapons to Ukraine. The more weapons London is sending to Ukraine, the more citizens of Ukraine die as a result. But the BBC will never tell Britons about that.

    1. Nigel

      ‘The more weapons London is sending to Ukraine, the more citizens of Ukraine die as a result. ‘

      ‘Stop making us kill all those Ukrainians.’ Helluva plea.

  13. stephen moran

    Trouble at Russian Mill (well “chemical paint” factory and “Aerospace defense research institute”)

    Smoke on the water, fire in the sky meets Burn Baby Burn

    2 for the price of one – pure coincidence or course- as correlation does not prove causation.

    https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines

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