48 thoughts on “Grá Not War”

  2. Ultach

    And now for the pedantry, which I’m happy to supply, you’ll not be surprised to hear. Most of you will know there isn’t a single word for “yes” in Irish. You just use the positive affirmative of the question verb. Not sure how that would look on the third poster though.

    1. John E. Bravo

      Although in fairness, this isn’t claiming there is a word for ‘yes’, it’s claiming there is a word for love in Irish and it is ‘yes’. Which is problematic because there are no Ys in Irish.

  4. Bluebeard

    And for some more unrequested pedantry, there is no way in which to say “I love you” in Irish. Its beautiful because we can never end our stories with “I love you, The End”. Its just the beginning.

        1. Bluebeard

          I spent a while trying to find the various stages of grá i ngaeilge. From tá mé mor leat, to tá mé tugtha dhuit, mo chroí istigh ionat and all points in between. I discovered the “silleadh” gem from an elderly lady in Gatoh Dobhair., She was blushing as she whispered it.

          2. Bluebeard

            It was for a project actually. She told me she whispered it to her husband on their first wedding dance. Oh the naughty laugh out of her.

          5. Bluebeard

            Bhí. Mar a shilleann bláth ola, nó súil deoir. Nior mhaith liom iarracht a dhéanamh é a aistriú go béarla…

  6. Jordofthejungle

    This might sway younger voters but it will not convince the substantial “soft yes” or undecided older cohort. The ones who will actually vote. You could drive the pen and paper to students and younger people and they still wouldn’t bother to vote. Ireland is not unique in this regard. These posters lack seriousness and gravitas. No posters are going to be about the family and children and they’re clever enough not to put up anything approximating the recent risible “Sounds of Sodomy”. They’re well-advised and the stage-managed prolife marches involving the confiscation of religious iconography demonstrate their embrace of PR and desire to window-dress their religiosity.

    The Yes side really need to seriously tackle certain concerns, however idiotic and unfounded, around the issue of gay patenting. Just like Switzerland, our referenda tend to lack substantive debate with emotive sound bites holding forth. Remember Ben Dunne’s meaningless but powerful “if you don’t know, vote no” catch-phrase at the time of Nice 1? This sort of hollow sloganeering has more power than one imagines. The Yes side need to get serious and face issues rather than the current hippy-dippy “love for all” campaign. The amount of those signalling problems with the Yes campaign is a huge cause for concern. The outcome of Marref is far from settled and all to play for.

    1. Bluebeard

      You’re right. Im surprised at the naivety of many on the yes side. People are continuously raising more and more objections which they feel are valid. They can all be dealt with rationally, but instead they are being ignored and treated as homophobic or anti-equality. Whatever the truth of this, it will not help the campaign which should be trying to win the approval of the rational middle, not the extreme edges.

      1. Jordofthejungle

        It’s the problem with our referendum culture which nurtures a type of lowest common denominator style of debate involving extremes and shallow sound bites. Then again, when it comes to social issues, we appear as a country incapable of rational and calm debate. The reality is that same-sex marriage won’t matter a jot yet people are lured into getting exercised about what is a triviality. I’m passionately supportive of marriage equality but it is depressing how exercised people get about it when there is so many other vastly important issues deserving of more debate and column inches. It’s the perfect distraction in our ever unequal and fractured society.

      2. andyourpointiswhatexactly

        My mother doesn’t mind lesbian parents but has an issue with gay men being parents. It’s impossible to sway her.

        1. Jordofthejungle

          Depressing as I don’t think her opinion is as much anti-gay as anti-man. And she wouldn’t be alone with her views. Such a disservice to men as parents. The only way to counter this is with actual examples of same-sex parenting by two gay men. I personally know of one such same-sex foster couple who have turned a young boy’s life around from a very difficult starting point. And unsurprisingly, they are the reason both my parents are voting yes.

          1. Don Pidgeoni

            Or by increasing the role that straight men play in raising their kids, increasing paternal leave or sharing it better with mothers, including men more in childcare roles in the community etc etc

          2. Jordofthejungle

            Agreed although I can already see the Napoleon-complexed David Quinn column entitled “Feminist conspiracy emasculating our men”.

            I am reminded of a French mayor who although opposed to same-sex marriage, admitted, since the passing of the legislation, he would reluctantly marry two women but never two men. Deep down, I think this style of reasoning is tied into a base understanding of masculinity and dismissive attitude to femininity – “shur women can be a bit funny” style reasoning.

          4. andyourpointiswhatexactly

            I think it is anti-gay, really. She’s a bit like Queen Victoria. She doesn’t see lesbianism as a “thing”. One of my best buddies is gay and she loves him, but when I broached the subject of him and a partner adopting a kid, she couldn’t accept it. A baby needs a mother, see. Even a heroin addict, Mum? Yup.
            It’s ridiculous.

    2. Ultach

      I didn’t even see the word referendum. There’s me thinking this is just a Valentiny poster thing with nice graficy text.

      1. Jordofthejungle

        Yes but there is a likelihood that the actual posters will be feel-good “yes for love” type slogans. Easily countered by the no-side with more emotive and superficially deeper sound bites concerning the nuclear family and children.

  7. Cluster

    Fully agree Jord. Although I think you meant “parenting”. Unless there is a sub-culture of gay “patenting” within the LGBT community of which I am utterly unaware. :-)

      1. Bluebeard

        Is sean fhocal atá ann. And it does seem to be the core argument for many on the yes side. Only marriage will do.

  11. Ultach

    Then there is the apocryphal gay chap who intends to vote no, the reason being why should gay people be subjected to a heterotraditional restrictive social norm. But that’s just him. If he exists.

    1. Kieran NYC

      UGH they do. They’re just as self-loathing as the gays who love to announce loudly that they just HATE Pride, and “Why do they have to draw attention to themselves?” every year.

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