This morning.
We knew this day would come.
Via RTÉ:
The Government is continuing to work on legislation to allow people who are fully vaccinated against Covid-19 to eat and drink inside restaurants and bars.
A bill to amend the 1947 Public Health Act is set to go before the Dáil and Seanad next week.
It is understood that 26 July, rather than 19 July, is viewed as a realistic date to reopen indoor hospitality under the proposed new system.
The measures in the bill would effectively expire once the population was vaccinated.
The Government is hoping there will be all-party agreement on the bill to get sectors opened in accordance with public health advice.
Seems perfectly legal and sensible.
FIGHT!
Bill to allow fully vaccinated people dine indoors (RTÉ)
Is it vaccinated only or also those who have had a positive PCR test?
Also what about Irish people from the north who have been vaccinated, but do not hold one of these certs?
Then there are those whom for health reasons cannot be vaccinated in the first place?
Must all staff be vaccinated in order to work there?
Good questions. I’d hope it is
1. both vaccinated , positive PCR, and recent negative test
2. The UK have their own vaccine passport – it should be recognised here
3. this will be more difficult. A recent negative test perhaps?
4. Probably not, until the vaccine has been offered to all
Yes well YOU would hope but
1. It looks like recent negative test is to be ruled out as unworkable.
2. If UK passports are to accepted then why not other countries?
3. Again PCR tests are to be ruled out.
4.That just doesn’t make the slightest bit of sense.
Of course a lot of this could be sorted out by using rapid antigen which is more accurate at identifying infectiousness- which is the whole point of the charade in the first place.
I understand this is to encourage more people to take the stab but it could backfire very easily. Everyone knows someone who will be forced to sit at the back of the Covid bus.
Expect signs like
No Dogs
No Foreigners
No Unvaccinated
Yeah, the antigen test would make sense.
Indeed, it is arguable if actually ensuring infected people do not enter these premises is the aim, that all, vaccinated and unvaccinated, be tested. The vaccinated can still contract and transmit the virus, and can even become ill and die. They can be vectors for the virus irrespective of vaccination and so should be subject to testing too. Either that or allow everybody and all take responsibility for their own health and safety by vaccinating if they wish or not if they don’t.
Problem there is Matty, even if they introduced rapid antigen, who is going to do the test? And you’d need to be pretty desperate to want a bloody swab shoved up your nose every time you go out- it hardly sets a mood now does it?
Can they not shove it somewhere else, wahey! Boom boom!
*rings bell, gets coat*
@SOQ – yes, of course, but if we are using the governments logic that this is about preventing the spread of the virus, antigen testing would actually be more effective to achieve this given the vaccinated can still be spreaders. I would support there being no restrictions at all and restaurants and bars simply open to all with each person assessing the risks and making their own choices in this regard. The annual flu poses a greater threat to young bar staff than coronovirus (this is a statistical fact) yet these Branch Covidians aren’t all crying out for bar staff to be flu vaccinated “to keep them safe” every year.
+1
Is everyone agreeing on something?
FIGHT!
No fighting!
I noticed that too :)
they’re all vaccinated in the UK and cases are hugely up. same in Denmark, Israel .. they should wait until we are all vaccinated before doing indoor stuff. its wreckless to rush it. profits don’t trump lives.
Not quite;
50% of *total* population is full vaccinated with another 17% on 1 dose (67%).
For the adult 18+ population is is closer to 65% first and another 21% one dose (86%)
Ireland:
total pop: Full: 38% + 1 dose: 16% (54%)
adults: Full: 53% +1dose: 17% (70%)
“The measures in the bill would effectively expire once the population was vaccinated.” No percentage provide or do they think 100% of the population will be vaccinated? Like many, I will not be getting any vaccine no matter the coercion these crooks seek to use. I’ll happily work from home, order online and avoid indoor dining and pubs indefinitely if that’s what it takes. Thos has always been about cooercing and enticing the population into accepting mass vaccinations. The virus is simply the pretext. A Brave New World beckons.
+2 in this 2-person household.
So E’Matty, can we come round your house with torches and pitchforks when Martin announces ‘sorry lads, E’Matty isn’t vaccinated, we can’t open up?’
I feel obliged to point out that that is supposed to be a joke… hmmm…
Lol, joke appreciated Alick. Though, in truth, pitchforks won’t be necessary. They appear to be following a policy path thst would see unvaccinated people being cut out of much of society. One doesn’t have to get the vaccine but if you don’t, well, you won’t be allowed travel, attend events big or small, dine in a restaurant, maybe even use public transport etc Who knows how far they will try push this in their efforts to coerce the population into getting these vaccines. The travel restrictions are the single greatest trick they have played as it seems from many I hear from that their desire to just get away on a holiday is the greatest motivation to get vaccinated, not protecting their health or that of others. I predict that we will see the emergence of “new variants” which will then be blamed on the unvaccinated resulting in even more public pressure and support for more draconian powers to be used to compel vaccination. It’s turning out pretty much exactly as us conspiraloons predicted months ago. Mass vaccination has since day one been the prime objective. I hope that, as a reasonable and logical person, as you appear to be, and a vaccine supporter, that you will be a voice of reason against any drive to compel the unwilling to be vaccinated. This is a possible precedent so great in its potential future reach that western democratic society will have crossed the Rubicon and changed fundamentally from its path of the past century.
What’s wrong with wanting to go away on holiday? I am going to the airport right now and going to say at the desk, can I have a flight ticket please, any destination, just one guaranteed to be as far away as possible from this e’matty character on broadsheet please.
Missing the point completely there Can a Da. I have no problem with people wanting to go on holiday. In fact, I went on two holidays abroad last summer as I knew it would be very difficult to do so this year. The point was that many people are submitting to the pressure to get a vaccine, not out of concern for their health or that of others, but because they believe they have no choice if they want to travel. The use of travel as the inducement has been the most effective tool in getting people to accept being vaccinated.
Indeed: I don’t see eye to eye with you and SOQ and f_ and some of the others here on many specific points, but I am thoroughly surprised and disgusted at how off the wall the Irish government’s response has been, and I understand your collective annoyance (sorry for categorising you all into one bag there folks). It is like they’ve read a ‘how not to do public health’ compendium. We’ve also had a tough time here, but so far the attitude is, right, we have a good vaccination rate, let’s do our best to get back to normal. Our health authority here is actually credible! A lot of what’s discused on Broadsheet reminds me of why I chose to leave Ireland ; (
What’s stopping someone suing anywhere that refuses them? Surely their is non-discrimination based on access to health care in play here. Irish gov can legislate all it likes, but at EU level it would be overturned surely.
There are conflicting rights:
My right not be discriminated against versus the rights of the rest of the restaurant not to be (potentially) exposed to a virus.
I don’t know whose rights take precedence.
Well since a vaccine is no guarantee that a person is not carrying the virus and capable of infecting others.
I would say the right not to be discriminated against takes precedence.
But in this mad world – who knows eh? ;)
A similar arguement could be used for drunk driving.
The Irish government has legislated against drunk driving… to the point that if i refuse a breathalyser the Garda can to perform an invasive medical procedure (blood test) on me!! The discrimination is palpable!
Why is the government allowed to discriminate against someone that just wants to have a few pints and then go for a drive…
So do you think these new laws segregating vaccinated and unvaccinated are a good thing for our society Cian?
Taking into account, that what the science says that a vaccinated person can still carry the virus and go onto infect others.
@Micko
Do you think the laws prohibiting drunk driving are a good thing for our society?
Do you think all the vaccines that we give our children (BCG, DT, DTP, Polio, Rubella, Measles, Mumps, Hiib, Men C, Bep B, HPV, PCV and Tdap? are a bad thing? Taking into account, that what the science says that a vaccinated person can still carry these viruses/bacteria and go onto infect others?
Skilfully avoid the question there Cian.
And again – should vaccines be mandatory?
Cian doesn’t give personal opinions Micko- its in his job description. He will always respond to such questions with other questions.
I often answer questions, but neither of you do.
So why should I?
Vaccines Cian
Should they be mandatory or not?
Put your money where your mouth is
Vaccines Cian
Should they be mandatory or not?
Which vaccines? and mandatory for what?
Covid vaccines Cian
Mandatory for all adults? Yay or nay
Nay
..what if an irish bar / restaurant with b*lls,refuses enforce/police this rubbish-lots bars and restaurants remained defiantly open in NY-and,and oh my god some people were inside,unvaccinated and not wearing masks,all dead now or wanted bio-terrorists,killing sick old people with their germs.
Except, this can be countered by the fact the vaccinated can still contract and transmit the virus so the difference in threat level between the vaccinated and unvaccinated becomes a matter of degrees. The failure to provide an easily supplied alternative to obviate the need for such discrimination, such as rapid antigen testing, would result in the law being a wholly disproportionate imposition on the rights of the unvaccinated to not be discriminated against based on personal choice, belief and a right to bodily integrity. The government are acting like the vaccinated are 100% immune and cannot be virus carriers. This has no basis in science. They are essentially saying this group of people who can be virus vectors are ok, but we are going to discriminate against this group. Whilst all rights are subject to qualification, any imposition must be necessary and proportionate. Where alternative means to achieve the objective clearly exist but have not being availed of, this proportionality test would likely be failed and such discrimination would be unconstitutional.
” The government are acting like the vaccinated are 100% immune and cannot be virus carriers.”
except they aren’t.
Think of seatbelts – They are mandatory under law. Not because they are 100% effective – but because they can help save your own life (and the life of others in the same car) in a car crash.
Cian, the government politicians were literally calling vaccinated people “immune” yesterday. The government impose blood tests for RTA matters as a proprtionate response to a deadly threat. If there was another less intrusive means of achieving the same objective, they would have to use that instead of blood tests. Other less discriminatory methods can achieve the same objective with Covid but the government are deliberately ignoring these as this would remove the pressure to be vaccinated, which is all they are after. Therefore, the discrimination is both disproportionate and unnecessary and therefore unconstitutional.
So just as seat belts are mandatory, should vaccines be also?
Seat Belts.
Drunk Driving
NY
?
They’re some arguments alright.
Divert/Distract.as usual. There is no comparison to be made between seat belts, or drunk driving or NY and vaccines.
well not yours anyway obviously FFG troll
it’s going to be a fairly crap experience going to a pub or restaurant if that sort of exclusionary nonsense is going on. I can’t imagine for one minute that the trade has any grá for enforcing these rules.
The government are essentially holding a gun to the pub and restaurant owners saying “Impose thos new discriminatory system or we will not allow you to open” when many of their members are close to financial collapse. Anybody opposing the measures has been cleverly but quite blatantly pushed into a corner where the government and media will then try claim it is these people stopping pubs and restaurants opening. The level of public manipulation and setting one group in society against another is disgusting. The government and media have flown the banner of “We’re all in this together” whilst at the same time fomenting and nurturing lines of division all across society.
Ah I’d say it’ll last a few weeks before everyone gets peed off. There will be some zealots that will be super strict, but sure just avoid that lot.
It’s not like a vaccine has a visible indicator like a mask. There will be unvaccinated beside vaccinated and no one will even know.
Ignore.
It’s just more divide and conquer spin from the Gov.
t kind of reminds me of the old story of a feuding family over a will. Someone asked so who got the farm?
The solicitors was the reply. They must be rubbing their hands with glee right now.
I always carry a small tin of glee, just in case..
bleak house, by charles dickens.
Ah I’d say it’ll last a few weeks before everyone gets peed off. There will be some zealots that will be super strict, but sure just avoid that lot.
– no we’re all already peed off with you guys! Especially the super strict zealots among you but to be fair you seem like a nice enough sort, still I’m going to avoid you just in case
You’re grand. I’ve already had Covid.
No need to avoid me
Pints? ;)
lol outdoors though, but yes, in fact let’s go for dinner at that nice Treyvauds place
The money grubbing drinks industry has a problem as they want to bring their potential victims of a killer and long term health damage airborne virus indoors
They have stated their goal of bringing large groups of people to gather together inside pubs while throwing their unvaccinated staff under a bus as they don’t give a damn about their health
It will leave them open to being correctly sued for injuring both the staff and the publics health.
All in the interests of pubs making a dirty profit over public health.
Then don’t go to work FFS. Health and safety at work is the responsibility of the employee.
Do we really have to explain this to you?
If the anti vax/rat licker brigade on here are so convinced, why do they consistently use language like
-it’s obvious
-Clearly you will agree
-Anyone with a brain can see
And so on, with the odd, hang your heads in shame, willing participant in genocide, only God can save you now schtick.
They’re trying to sell something they don’t even believe in.
go on Papi, tell us all about just two more weeks to flatten the curve and we’re all in this together. You guys believe alright, there just isn’t any factual basis for your beliefs which are totally adopted instructions from your betters. Followers of authority who consider themsevles virturous for following authority without question. Only crazy conspiraloons ever question people in authority. Every tyrannical regime in human history has relied on your kind to maintain their position of power.
Why even bother? Papi is one of the most vindictive trolls on the site and has personally and incessantly attacked me since I joined. I hope the mods do notice this
Do you think Covid vaccines should be mandatory then Papi?
If it means an end to all this, I’m for it, if it fails, then we’re all equally in the muck, but this constant hiding behind “Things going well/ Oh, it’ll fail in the future, mark my words” and ” Things not going well/I told you so” is like the lawyer question of ” Have you stopped beating your wife”
Nobody wants this situation, but back seat driving and doomsaying is a cowardly way to deal with it.
Have the vax, don’t, up to you, but have the courage of your convictions to do that and shut up about it.
@canada, you just ride on coat tails child.
So, I’m gonna take that as a no then. They shouldn’t be mandatory.
Ok. Then do you think that if someone doesn’t have a vaccine they should be excluded from parts of society?
Which is essentially what the government is doing without allowing antigen tests.
Why on earth would my opinion, yay or nay, matter to you so much, if you believe your opinion? Why? Why the constant, knuckle cracking need to be vindicated all the time? I have zero medical background, apart from a first aid course dude, and this is an internet forum.
Grow up.
Just askin ;)
Why would you need to have a medical background to have an opinion on whether someone should be excluded from society?
Because my opinion on that is exactly that. Mine. Unqualified to give expert advice. Do I think it’s right? No. But then I think the whole thing has been handled badly and without due care. I do what I think is right, for my reasons. No need to have you agree with me or change your mind or bleat about it.
Ok cool.
So, I don’t think it’s right either.
But, I also don’t think that you should be calling people “ anti vax/rat licker” or similar as you did in your original post.
Especially since, as you say – we agree this is wrong.
That’s all :-)
Delicately handled Micko, I doff my cap..
*blush*
;)
Why the resistance to antigen tests? it’s a simple and fair solution. I’m still waiting on my vaccine (for weeks now!), why should I be excluded.
Because the chairman of NPHET is involved in the PCR testing- it is really is that simple- and corrupt.
so bloody frustrating! it seems it would actually be safer to use them than not. even putting aside my personal gripes
hi all
I’m “new” to the comment section but an avid broadsheet reader. no replying to anyone in particular but myself and my wife and son went up to Belfast for the day v recently. we found it a breath of fresh air and cheerful, of the fact we could go into a restaurant,sit indoors and eat and drink and nobody was interested in vaccine status whatsoever. now I ain’t sure of what the whole UK situation is on domestic vax certs but up north,at the moment anyway,there’s no discrimination on vax or no vax. oh and yes I’m not vaccinated but my wife is and not out of choice.and my 17 year old son is also unvaccinated. I am of the opinion that what the government want to do is nothing short of horrendous. and as other commenters have pointed out what’s the point of these proposed new laws for pubs/restaurants if vaxxed people can still spread the virus. personally I am torn between getting vaccinated or not . the worry of possible side effects or worse has me in a mental state of panic.both my wife and myself definitely had the virus over last Christmas but we never got tested due to being too wrecked to move. but hey were both in our 50’s and although it wasn’t pleasant we got through it,just like any bad flu one would expect. plus I’m asthmatic and I sailed through it compared to my wife who isn’t asthmatic. now looking back with all this covid very bullpoo I’ve no way to prove we are recovered from covid. anyway folks please be kind as it’s my very first comment here. could be my last!!
Welcome to the comments section, Dex!
Thanks Bodger
Welcome! Given you believe you already had the virus, there is a strong argument for not vaccinating at all. Antibodies provide protection but more importantly, T-cells provide the greatest protection and the protection afforded by these are believed to last as long as 15 plus years (as with SARS-COV1, which can be as long as 17 years). Whilst the media has tried to sell scaremongering stories of “Covid19 reinfection” these are bogus as nobody is ever infected, and so cannot be reinfected, with Covid19. One becomes infected with SARS-COV2 and may (in a small minority of cases, less than 15%) go on to develop any symptoms of Covid19, the disease. There is no evidence of those reinfected with SARS-COV2 going on to develop Covid19 so those infected people appear to enjoy strong immunity to the actual disease, which is the dangerous part.
This low level of risk combined with the unknown risks involved in taking a vaccine really pushes the cost/benefit risk assessment strongly against vaccination for those already infected. They say we can be sure these vaccines are safe, when no medium to long term effects can possibly be known. The blood clots were an adverse reaction that presents almost immediately, though even this was not picked up by the supposedly comprehensive testing. How anyone can believe that they can assure us of their medium to long term safety when they couldn’t even pick up such a clear short term adverse reaction is beyond me.
And again, welcome to the Broadsheet comment section. It can get quite venomous in here but don’t take any of it too personally. Most are probably quite nice and reasonable in real life, even the likes of Daisy Chainsaw. These faceless online interactions tend to bring out our worst. Their on line personas can be despicable characters but I like to think in real life they are not quite so bad.