Sinn Féin TD Pearse Doherty; Deputy Commissioner John Twomey, Chief Superintendent Pat Lordan at the finance committee on July 9 last
Last night, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar released a statement stating Maria Bailey “signed an affidavit (linked to a personal injuries summons) that over-stated the impact of her injuries on her running”.
He also stated there were “inconsistencies” in her account of events and that she made “numerous errors of judgement” in her handling of the matter – even after she withdrew her claim.
In a separate statement on foot of the unpublished report by David Kennedy SC, Ms Bailey said:
“I note that the report by David Kennedy SC has found that this was not a fraudulent claim, and that it would be unlikely that a court would conclude that there was any attempt to mislead on my part. I made no attempt to mislead.”
Earlier this month, Deputy Commissioner John Twomey, Chief Superintendent Pat Lordan and Andrew McLindon, director of communications at An Garda Síochána attended a meeting of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform.
During the meeting, Sinn Féin TD Pearse Doherty asked those present about the difference between fraud and exaggerated claims.
Mr Lordan said he believes there is no difference and also went on to say that claims believed to be exaggerated and defined as fraud should, by law, be reported to the gardai by people in the know.
He also confirmed that to not report it is a criminal offence.
They had the following exchange:
Pearse Doherty: “Can I just take the witnesses through a couple of points for clarification? On fraud, what is the difference between fraud and exaggerated claims, a term that is being used now, or are exaggerated claims fraud?”
Pat Lordan: “I see no difference between an exaggerated claim and fraud. The view of the insurance industry is the same. This is not right across the board, where some parts of the insurance industry may say it was a mistake or someone was trying to claim little bit more, by accident. My view is that if one has a claim for €100 worth of water damage, and change it up to €1,000, that is fraud.”
Doherty: “If a person was in a car accident and claimed that he or she was injured beyond what the person was, would that be seen as fraud?”
Lordan: “Absolutely, but the difficulty we have with both of those scenarios is proving it. Where the householder has an invoice or receipt for €1,000, it is quite difficult then to show that it is fraud.”
Doherty: “Yes.”
Lordan: “Likewise, with a lot of these fraudulent claims, they represent minor enough injuries, like whiplash, for example. It is quite difficult for us to prove, when we investigate such a case, that the person does not have whiplash.”
Doherty: “The guidance on reported suspected fraudulent insurance claims within An Garda Síochána’s code of practice with the insurance industry states “an offence of deception relating to exaggerated claims takes place” and it goes on to say where it takes place and should be reported. Should claims that are believed to be exaggerated and which are defined as fraud be reported?”
Lordan: “Likewise, with a lot of these fraudulent claims, they represent minor enough injuries, like whiplash, for example. It is quite difficult for us to prove, when we investigate such a case, that the person does not have whiplash.”
Doherty: “The guidance on reported suspected fraudulent insurance claims within An Garda Síochána’s code of practice with the insurance industry states “an offence of deception relating to exaggerated claims takes place” and it goes on to say where it takes place and should be reported. Should claims that are believed to be exaggerated and which are defined as fraud be reported?”
Lordan: “Absolutely, yes.”
Doherty: “Is Mr Lordan familiar with section 19 of the Criminal Justice Act 2011 on disclosure?”
Lordan: “I am, yes.”
Doherty: “What onus does that place on me or on any other person, if I am aware of a fraudulent claim, because fraud is one of the relevant categories in that legislation?”
Lordan: “There is an onus on the person to report it, if the person knows that the information that he or she has can assist An Garda Síochána in an investigation, in showing that somebody else in the room committed or carried out an act of fraud. There is a list of offences covered by it.”
Doherty: “What is the position if I do not report it?”
Lordan: “There can be an offence.”
Doherty: “Is it a criminal offence?”
Lordan: “It is.”
Doherty: “This has a maximum potential prison term of five years.”
Lordan: “My own view on this – I presume the Deputy is talking in particular about an insurance company here – is that if one is an insurance company or bank and wants to report a fraud or crime, one should report it in the normal way that any crime should be reported, other than relying on the section 19 report.”
Doherty: “Section 19 of the Criminal Justice Act makes it a criminal offence for the insurance industry and the entity – including possibly the person but definitely the entity – not to report an issue of fraud.”
Lordan: “That is correct.”
Read the debate in full here
Earlier: Where It Stops, Nobody Knows
Yesterday: “There Have Been Inconsistencies In Deputy Bailey’s Account of Events”
