Dec writes;
“Now I know I have a bias here, but Sinn Fein is voting against the EU association agreement with Ukraine. Apparently they all for self determination except when it comes to Scotland (sound of silence) and Ukraine!”
FIGHT!
Voting here
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To be fair I think it is obvious that they support the Yes campaign but their silence on Scotland is in case their support for a Yes vote was turned around used by the No Campaign citing the history of troubles in the North.
On closer inspection it appears that SF voted along the lines of their European Parliament grouping (GUE-NGL). Of that group of 52 4 did not vote (incluing Luke Ming Flanagan), 1 abstained, 1 voted yes and the other 46 voted no.
Does anyone know what the GUE-NGL has against Ukraine? Or are they just anti-EU and nay-sayers in general?
…could it be that the democratically elected government in Ukraine was ousted by a rabble in Kiev and replaced by a disparate bunch of fascists who are united only by their hatred of Russia.
Nope, that’s not it. Have another look.
Ukraine are an independent state, therefore self determination is not at issue. What is at issue is the relationship between Russia/Ukraine and Ukraine/EU. For years the EU, along with NATO, have been pushing closer ties with Ukraine. This is a change in the balance of power and thus makes Russia react to a perceived loss of power, leading to Russian attempts to destabilise Ukraine and maintian influence over at least part of the counrty.
Voting against EU participation in a destabilising process that has caused hardship to your average Ukrainian isn’t a hypocritical stance when taken with a lot of other SF policies
… could be that that’s not what happened at all. The president skipped the country. The government stayed, and then turned against him in his absence (yes, including his own party’s MPs) and impeached him. Turns out a president directly ordering snipers to fire on and kill scores of unarmed protesters doesn’t make for a popular president, at home or abroad (unless it’s Putin’s Russia or Broadsheet.ie).
I really don’t understand the Putin and SF love here. For a pack of bleeding heart liberals, it’s a bit odd to enthusiastically parrot the narrative of Putin’s Russia (the closest thing we have to a fascist regime in modern Europe) as fact – decrying nationalist members of Ukraine’s now-dissolved interim government – while simultaneously defending and explaining away such an overtly nationalist (and literal former terrorist) party hypocritically voting against its own principles.
I suppose being a shower edgy hipsters and vociferously adopting the alternative viewpoint no matter how spurious is more important than facts here.
All the events you describe are as a result of the changes in the power relationship between Russia/Ukraine and Ukraine/EU.
It’s nothing to do with love for anybody. The original comment in the post relates to SF being hypocrites for not supporting Ukrainian self determination. I’m merely pointing out that that isn’t what they are not supporting
You’ve been watching RT again…?
I was wondering that myself. Apparently they have concerns that it’s being rushed in too fast:
http://www.guengl.eu/news/article/sore-lack-of-scrutiny-in-fast-tracking-of-eu-ukraine-free-trade-deal
Although there may be other reasons behind it. E.g. they’re not huge fans of the new Ukrainian government.
Here they are protesting sanctions against Russia in March: http://www.guengl.eu/news/article/sanctions-only-deepen-divisions-over-ukraine
And here they are condemning the Ukrainian government’s actions towards the communist party: http://www.guengl.eu/news/article/gue-ngl-condemns-ukrainian-governments-undemocratic-attempt-to-suppress-com
Horseshoe theory in action – Europe’s far right and far left in agreement.
http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-ames-europes-far-right-is-embracing-putin-2014-4
Well, they’re for an independent 32 county Irish republic, they say. They have deliberate policy of not commenting on the Scottish referendum since that’s a matter for, um, the people of Scotland. As for Ukraine association with EU, that is a matter for the European Parliament, of which SF are members, I don’t see how that is connected to Irish reunion.
What’s Dec’s bias? Are we supposed to know it?
Let’s see, last time I checked Sinn Fien weren’t Scottish. And they can hardly described as English – except by their most militant critics.
And whilst I don’t know a lot about EU association with the Ukraine. The US/EU posturing and scheming certainly seems to have caused a lot of unnecessary suffering and death so far this year.
I would say these are fairly reasonable positions, fair play to them.
What’s Dec’s agenda here?
Your tone is antagonistic and you’re making me very angry.
Yeah, Otis, being all reasonable and everything! Don’t you know this is a Broadsheet comment thread? Mmmmf!
Ukraine’s min and average wages are ~30% lower that Chinese ones (sources [french]: http://www.les-crises.fr/ukraine-le-pib/.
Best way to start dealing with a country is to start with a free trade agreement! (and denying any geopolitical consideration, and asking your new friend to decide who is their new unconditional only friend, and let politicians decide what is good or not)
They’re against self-determination for unionists as well. Always were. Always will be. World without end. Amen.
Just like Unionists are opposed to self-determination in the three counties of the north that have nationalist/republican majorities. Sun rise, sun set…
How do you work that out, SFB? Have you heard of the Stormont Executive? And are you suggesting they advocate denying Unionists the vote in either of our two present jurisdictions or in a putative reunited Ireland?
A UI, however putative, is against the wishes of unionists, hence the name unionist. That the aforesaid unionists made a hames of running the place is partly their nature and partly the fact that they were attacked from the get- go. But the point I’m making is that SF are all over the place when it comes to self-determination and partition . Partition for Spain/Catalonia , a UI at home. And don’t forget SF and the Jews, who should be still wandering, apparently.
I must have forgotten SF and the Jews. Care to elucidate?
“And don’t forget SF and the Jews, who should be still wandering, apparently.”
What tosh!
Desperate excuse for a Sinn Fein bashing moan. Is this some Young Fine Gaeler getting their spectacles all fogged up with giddiness?
Do they have a dedicated SF bash moan desk?
Sinn Fein, Ireland’s Nationalist Socialist Party – eh?
Eh?