Irish Water: Bringing Communities Together

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Dublin Says No writes:

Residents of Edenmore and Surrounding areas marched on Raheny Garda station last night after heavy-handed tactics were used by gardai on peaceful protesters.

Meanwhile, in Limewood this morning …

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A stand off between Gardai and residents.

UPDATE:

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Irish Water protesters have an impromptu sing-song on the Luas yesterday after Judge Max Barrett refused to reinstate an injunction previously imposed by Judge Partick McCarthy on September 19. GMC Sierra, which is installing water metres on behalf of Irish Water in Dublin, wanted it reinstated but lost their bid.

On Thursday, GMC Sierra will ask the High Court to jail the seven protesters for allegedly breaching court orders.

Water meter protesters may face prison for contempt of court (Irish Times)

Dublin Says No (Facebook)

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70 thoughts on “Irish Water: Bringing Communities Together

    1. Bobby

      I can’t help but feel that they’d have a lot more support if they didn’t use so much bull.

      Also, I’d get that looked at by a doctor, if I were you.

      1. Clampers Outside!

        The feckbook post about this annoys me no end… it’s likely pure bullcrap and it has 65 comments and 31 shares…. of unsubstantiated nonsense.

        And these muppets wonder why they haven’t more support *sigh*

  1. Drogg

    Peaceful protests are pointless, you want to make a point a good old fashioned riot at the gates of Leinster house while the rail is in session should get their attention.

    1. cousinjack

      Gardai = National Corporate Security Firm (not protection of constiutuional or civil rights)
      A culchie boys club that doesn’t serve urban or rural policing needs

      1. ReproBertie

        What a load of tinfoil hat NWO nonsense.

        Just today there are reports that seven men were arrested in Dublin’s north inner city as part of an ongoing garda drugs operation. I’ve heard tell the gardaí also investigate robberies, murders and assaults and have been known to enforce traffic law. The job also requires that they enforce the law when protestors, even peaceful ones, break it.

        1. Drogg

          Doing security for a private company is not upholding the law. The company should be paying for security and then garda should only be called if there is need to call them. Sierra new there was going to be security problems when they bid for the work but they are still relying on garda to do it for them.

          1. ReproBertie

            The only clip I’ve seen of garda action at an anti-water meter protest was when they arrested a TD for obstruction which was enforcing the law.

            Are Sierra paying the gardaí? The GAA, FAI and IRFU all do as do MCD and Aiken Promotions. I presume Shell did aswell. What powers would a civilian security firm have if protestors set about preventing the water meter insallers from doing their job? I’m no legal expert but I don’t think their powers would extend beyond phoning the gardaí to report cases of obstruction so they would ultimately be nothing more than a target for protestors. That being the case, paying to have a garda presence to ensure they can get on with their work makes more sense than hiring a security firm.

    1. Bobby

      The people get charged a fortune to replace them. It’s not like those in government or Irish Water will ever be losing out.

        1. Bobby

          Yeah, but do you really think that’ll stop them? The whole thing has been done in the shadiest of circumstances. It’s not within the realms of fantasy to assume they’re not going to take the hit for replacing them.

    2. pissedasanewt

      People will get a bill based on averages and estimates with probably a little bit added on to cover the cost of replacing the meters.

    1. Rob_G

      I don’t think that you understand how laws work – do speed limits still apply, even if people don’t want them to?

        1. DoM

          Well it is the law. You can protest to have it repealed, sure, but arguing that it shouldn’t apply because you don’t “consent” is patently bonkers. Can I refuse to “consent” to income tax on the same basis?

  2. Kill The Poor

    Where were these protesters during the economic collapse, the nights of votes in the dail, budget days ?

    If there’s been a bit more protest for the last 7 years maybe politicans might take protests seriously, put leaving it till the legislation is passed and the guy with the meter is outside your house is pointless !!

    1. Sham Bob

      Well there were protests, but small protests can be contained, ignored, and demonised. The cack-handed introduction of water charges has opened the possibility of a major campaign of civil disobedience, which is proving more difficult to ignore.

  3. Anne

    “stick yar water meters up yar arse”.. Yikes.

    ,There are going to be a lot of people who are not going to pay this charge.
    How are the courts going to deal with this? Imprison tens of thousands of people?

    The anti austerity crowd are meeting in the Clarion in Limerick this Wednesday evening at 8pm on it.
    I imagine it’ll be packed.

    Will ye be sending yer representatives to Limerick Broadsheet administrators?
    All welcome it says.

  4. Anne

    Here’s a bit on it – (Wed 1st Oct. Tomorrow night. 8pm Clarion. Limerick.)

    “The battle against water charges has well and truly begun, with thousands ripping up or posting back their water forms, protests against meters popping up across the country and countless communities pledging not to pay. We have three months to organise mass non-payment and a mass campaign to scrap these unjust charges. As an important step towards that the AAA are holding a public meeting next week to launch the ‘We Won’t Pay’ campaign locally, with speakers from the AAA, Trade Unions, and community groups fighting water meters.

    This meeting will answer your questions about:
    – Water charges: how much will they be, and what happens if you don’t pay
    – Water meters, where they have been resisted, and how that has been organised
    – The ‘application packs’ and what to do with them
    – Why Irish Water cannot take the charge out of your income, or cut off your water
    – It will also outline how water charges were beaten before in Limerick and in Dublin and how we can beat them again.

    Thousands of leaflets will be available for people to collect on the night for neighbours, friends and family as well, with an important FAQ to answer people’s questions as well.

    This meeting is a crucial step in building a mass campaign of non-payment, civil disobedience and protest to beat the water charges, so please do everything you can to make it to the meeting, to spread the word, and to bring a group of friends and neighbours too.”

    1. Jock

      Most workers like myself are in favour of this tax as it actually widens our tax base rather than hit the same narrow segment of paye workes. The fact that so many welfare wasters are up in arms proves this point.

          1. Original Cynical

            One in particular is living in tax exile, getting €millions in debt write-downs on business loans and screwing the Irish people!

          2. ReproBertie

            Not really helpful Anne. It doesn’t come as a surprise that cutbacks and new taxes are hurting those with less more.

            Without more detail “Tax the wealthy” is not a solution, just an empty slogan. Higher PAYE and PRSI for those earning over a certain amount is fine but what’s the amount? Aside from that measure how do we identify and tax “the wealthy”?

          3. ReproBertie

            You toss out an empty slogan and when I question you on it you try to make it my responsibility to make your argument for you?

          4. ReproBertie

            I asked you how we identify the wealthy. I asked you how we go about taxing them. You gave me links that describe the current situation. Do you expect me to somehow deduce from these links what measures you want introduced and who these measures will be aimed at?

          5. Anne

            “I asked you how we identify the wealthy”

            Assets, earnings and most importantly gold cufflinks and cravats is how I’d go about identifying them.

            Go away would you.
            Question time is finished for today.

          6. ReproBertie

            Yeah, half an answer and then a sharp exit as it gets a bit uncomfortable when you have to provide more than shouty slogans.

        1. smoothlikemurphys

          “taxing the wealthy”

          The ‘wealthy’, whomever they are, will be up and gone if the tax rate gets any higher. How would you feel about the government getting 0% of the wealthy’s earnings instead of 52% as it is?

          1. SOMK

            Oh FFS! Anybody paying 52% tax in Ireland must be allergic to accountants, it doesn’t happen, it’s a myth, there’s tax breaks, it’s a marginal taxation, you are only taxed at 52% above the margin, see page 20, chart 7 http://www.nerinstitute.net/download/pdf/household_tax_contributions_neri_wp18.pdf the top pay about 30%

            As for the wealth leaving, well one generally they don’t, the ones rich and selfish enough to stash their assets abroad to avoid are measly higher tax rates already do, and two let them, who needs them? Not saying they don’t do any good necessarily, but the wealthy tend to hoard money, drive up asset prices, and drain money from the young and the poor, via rent extraction. If they were investing their money and building factories that’d be one thing, but, in Ireland they’re not.

            It’s like Sinatra said, there’s the money you need for your food, your house, your car, clothes, children’s education, a holiday or two and that but once you have the bases covered the rest if just F*** you money, a way to elevate, distant and whole yourself above society, wealth is essentially a measure of power and progressive taxation is the mediation of that power, it exists for reasons understood since the days of Adam Smith and Ricardo.

            In 2012 the Sunday Business Post ran a Red C pre-budget poll, one of the questions asked should there be a tax raise for those earning over €100,000, 88% answered agreed, the SBP did not publish this poll, nor was it mentioned in the media.

            Whatever about the merits of raising the upper tax level, the debate is controlled, so that the issue is never raised in a substantial manner, heaven forbid political parties would actually execute taxation policies they’re people support, rather than they’re told they support in a jingoistic ridden media narrative full of lazy clichés that turn social groups with common interests against each other.

          2. Anne

            +1 to SOMK,
            That link I gave earlier ‘Who Pays Income Tax In Ireland’, (it’s from a few year’s back, but a good analysis of information available on Revenue.ie), shows that top earners paid an effective tax rate of 20.8%.

            “There were 214 Irish taxpayers with incomes in excess of €500,000 in 2007 and they paid an effective tax rate of 20.8% on this income. The Revenue Commissioners collected €34.15 million as a consequence.

            Income tax accounted for 27% of the overall taxation revenue of the Irish Government in 2006… the projected yield from income tax this year, €12.47 billion”

            That’s 34 million of 12.27 billion, for that year.

        2. DoM

          “Widening the tax base” means taxing more people, not taxing people more. One of the major problems of the boom years was that so many people became not beneficiaries from the tax system, as opposed to net contributors. Stamp duty propped this system up, and then suddenly stopped propping it up.

          USC goes some way to addressing this, water charges are another way. When there are so few super wealthy people taxing them a lot might be desirable for many reasons, but is simply not going to raise a lot of revenue.

          Also, the “tax the rich” mantra is ignorant because it implies that the rich aren’t already paying most of the tax (spoiler alert: they are).

      1. danc

        so would you expect commensurate changes on your payslip as a result of this more fair and equitable system? If that was likely there’d be far less resistance.

        In other news, VAT is just a temporary measure

      2. Sham Bob

        I’m a worker, I’m not in favour. I’d just rather pay it than have the hassle of getting into some legal difficulties. I’m glad these people are prepared to take to the streets, even if they are prone to Freeman influence. Anything to give these bondholder-paying FG pr1cks a headache.

  5. Planet of the Missing Biros

    Edenmore and Limewood aren’t council estates. These people just aren’t all southside embarrassed to be seen to express their democratic right to protest.

    The Irish so called ‘middle class’ needs to wise up and stop pretending that they immune from the effects of spending cuts and tax increases. Most don’t have two pennies to rub together. But they don’t have the guts to get out and protest about it. They’re afraid of what the neighbours might think. Smug vanity.

    Unless your household is bringing in over €150,000 a year, you are not ‘comfortable’ as the Irish love to say. So if you’re a manager earning €60K a year with a BMW leased from a bank, you’re as much in hoc as anyone on a council estate. You’re not special. You’re not classy.

    1. smoothlikemurphys

      “But they don’t have the guts to get out and protest about it. They’re afraid of what the neighbours might think.”

      OR

      They don’t actually agree with the protestors. Funny how nobody seems to be able to comprehend this – the only answer, it would seem, from the people in favour of protests is that non-protestors are afraid to do it. A pretty delusional position.

    2. Outta me Bento Box

      LOL. “The middle class on 60k aren’t immune from spending cuts”.

      They’re not immune from the billions squandered on these professional welfare cases either. People on 60k are the backbone of the country. I don’t know anyone on 60k who leases a car either – in fact I didn’t realise banks were in the car leasing business either.

      1. oofMoof

        Do you think ‘professional welfare cases’ are to blame for austerity measires? You do remember 2008 don’t you? When Welfare cases broke the stock market.

  6. squiggleyjoop

    Their phones seem to be able to record the sing songy bits of the protest ok but not the bits where women and children are being kicked around. Odd.

          1. Parp

            With what PPS no.? I won’t be giving mine, and I won’t be paying. I put the forms in the bin.

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