How the Oxi was won.
Mapper Omar Sarhan writes:
One of the lines taken in the build up to the referendum was that the Greek people wanted to exercise their democratic rights and a massive decision such as a bailout requires the consent of the people.
In 1975 Greece was one of a minority of countries to introduce compulsory voting, It has always being considered an important affair, up until 2001 there were still provisions in the constitution for penalties and sanctions on absent voters. The spirit of compulsory voting still exists in the constitution even if enforcement is non-existent.
I did expect to see a greater increase in voter engagement, the vast majority of the municipalities had a lower turnout for this referendum than the parliamentary elections that took place earlier this year. It is startling to think that there was increased voter apathy at this crucial moment….
Turnout In The Greek Referendum (Omar Sarhan)
Not voting does not equal apathy.
If you don’t know what to vote for simplycast a blank ballot. Not going to the polling station is apathy, even if it is because you don’t know what you want to vote for.
No, not necessarily, isn’t a blank vote usually used as a protest?
I would think it’s culturally context specific though, so not fair to infer apathy.
What is it if not apathy?
Paralysis was my first assumption.
Dunno, don’t care.
It’s not, Omar.
Give me a metric for apathy.
Go off and make me a map plotting how much I care about continuing this discussion with you.
No idea who Omar is and not here to defend him, but jeez, you’re being a massive knob with that reply. If you can’t muster an argument, just give up.
If making such a knobtacular request as to supply a “metric of apathy” does not deserve as dismissive a reply as mine, I don’t know what does. Sorry for upsetting your delicate sensibilities.
*for
It’s ok little man.
I don’t think Liam understands what you mean by “metric”.
You may get used to it fosull, the BS comment section has become like thejournal.ie; gone are the days of intelligent, witty discourse and engaging contributions, it seems cynicism, nastiness and condescending comments are the new black.
+1
Hotel Sierra
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Or perhaps they just realised that the vote makes no difference. Yes = more austerity. No = more uncertainty.
Or maybe they just realised they are not in a democracy and their government is hiding behind them.
I don’t get your point. Why is taking the decision to the public not democratic?
Having a referendum at the final hurdle of a dept. payment, and telling your people to vote no is not democracy…. it’s a government hiding behind their people. Democracy would have been to have this vote when the terms of the loans were made at the time of borrowing, not at the time of payment.
Also, the government has not given an alternative, so what are they voting for? There is no choice. Do you want to stick with austerity or not? …. No. Democracy is choice. Their government has not really given an alternative.
Do you mean they should have had a referendum when the Goldman Sachs boys were running the show? Yes, that’s a good idea, wasn’t it?
What’s your point? Would that have been less or more democratic?
I think they are corrupt and in dept, and not keen to address either issue. This trumped up ‘power to the people’ card is not democracy.
All the Greeks are corrupt in the same way as all Irish are drunk terrorists, i.e. all victims of generalisations by keyboard warriors.
Note that the referendum never was about whether they want to pay or not. It was about whether extreme austerity is the way to pay. People are confusing austerity with governance and reform. Tax intake will be increased if the law is applied and also if there is increased economic activity.
Strangling GDP only make the debt more unsustainable. GDP has dropped over 30% since the banking crisis started. This means that a 100% of GDP becomes 1a 150% of GDP debt without taking any extra loans.
If debtors want to see some returns, they need to allow Greece to reform, not to force increased austerity.
Ah come one now, it is not the same as calling Irish drunks. There is a lot of evidence of the level of corruption. Can I not say Nigeria is corrupt cause of our stereotype?
Indeed, the referendum was not about if they want to pay, it was about austerity measures. You are correct. But there has not been an alternative given. It is essentially saying ‘vote no to austerity and we will come up with a better plan later’. And the opportunity to reform is there, and has been. Saying they have not been given a chance to reform at this stage is laughable. It been going on since 2008.
Are you suggesting there isn’t plenty evidence of Irish people drinking to stupid levels? Generalisations may sound more unfair when one is on the receiving side.
There are millions of hard working Greek people being affected by this characterization that is being driven mostly by the media and pro-austerity people.
If you campaign for throwing Greek tax evaders into jail and take their assets I will be the first to agree, but if you are happy characterising all the Greeks as lazy and corrupt people, I think you are just too influenced by mainstream media.
Well, your initial point was on my comment on democracy, and you have now focused on my saying Greece is a corrupt nation. Greece is corrupt. I didn’t say Greeks are lazy and not working. I said the nation is corrupt. On the corruption index it is tied bottom for Europe. It’s not a stereotype, it is a fact. Not only is it a fact, but my comment focused on government, not the public… who… to reiterate my point, are being led by a corrupt non-democratic government hiding behind their people.
Some people did not even have the money to travel to where they were meant to be voting apparently.
Citation needed.
Some people did not have the money to travel to their polling station. I would cite if I had an hour to search but I am too busy cleaning up a GIS mess left by some d|ck here in Dublin?
Cleaning up messy GIS data is a unique pain alright, I feel for ya.
Apathetic voters are Cretans
I don’t know why people are picking holes in this result saying 60% is low. Extremely importent referenda in Ireland have been decided by less.
Lisbon 1- Rejected with 53% polling
Lisbon 2 – Accepted with 59% polling
Nice 1 – Rejected with 35% polling
Nice 2 – Accepted with 49% pollng
Seanad – Rejected with 39% polling
Abolition of Articles 2&3 – Accepted with 56% polling
I thought you might of had the answer to the question, you didn’t seem to feel anyone else’s idea was of merit. I guess apathy could be metricated as the % of people who have not voted at the last three opportunities.
Don’t worry I’m not hurt, we understand, we all have those Monday blues when you just can’t help feel like you got out of the bed on the wrong side.
Here’s some nice calming music to help you relax and be more in tune with your inner self.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NvesuxnPQFA
Well this didn’t post in the right place at all!