55 thoughts on “A Limerick A Day

    1. Caroline

      You’ve got the timeline fundamentally wrong, because you don’t actually care about it, but other than that, yeah great point.

    2. Dόn Pídgéόní

      My two cents

      1) Breibart….
      2) Yes, male suicide is a huge problem and should be addressed. Is International Men’s Day the appropriate time for this to happen? The website is pretty weird and ties into a lot of male stereotypes that actually contribute to men not talking about their problems (being the provider, being strong etc)
      3) I’m not sure about banning things tbh but the points made in the open letter about how the Men’s Day campaign fails to engage with ideas around gender that put men in these positions, ideas they themselves perpetuate is really odd and slightly dangerous as well. If you already feel like you aren’t “man” enough and go to a seminar were that is reinforced, how are you going to feel then?
      4) Men’s (Mental) Health Day would be a better and more focused idea and with input from experts in the field, prevent repeating the stereotypes that contribute to poor health in men.

  1. Caroline

    There’s a weirdly prescriptive vibe off that website. I would regard being told by some randomer what a man is or isn’t, or what being a man does or does not involve, to be very triggering of a massive “fck off”. If I was a man, like. Which I’m not.

    1. Mikeyfex

      No, you’re a woman. Which explains why you feel that way.

      *realises he’s calling out Caroline. Shuts down computer and flushes phone*

      1. Caroline

        Eh? Did you read it? I think it’s strange that some guy has decided to write up his simplistic version of manhood and decide it requires celebration: self-sacrifice, “honour” etc. What do you think of the text?

      1. Caroline

        No. It’s not the writing, or how it’s framed. It’s the content. It’s the message. It’s what it’s literally saying. There is not equivalence on this issue.

        A men’s day organised by groups and charities actually working on issues primarily affecting men would be a good idea. Until then IMD is essentially Mr. Jerome Teelucksingh, Ph.D. and whatever pops into his head about manly manliness. I think men deserve better. Most of them anyway.

  2. Dόn Pídgéόní

    “The ability to sacrifice your needs on behalf of others is fundamental to manhood, as is honour. Manhood rites of passage the world over recognise the importance of sacrifice in the development of Manhood.”

    What? Is it?

  3. Starina

    every day is men’s day (except women’s day). They should call it Supermen’s Day.

    I agree with Caroline’s impression though, the opening paragraph is great (gender relations! health! equality!) but the rest of the site is rather…erm…masculine. there’s a lot more subtlety to being a man than white, football-loving heteronormativity, just as there is more to being a woman than motherhood, fashion and pink.

    1. Clampers Outside!

      +1

      It’s a terrible website.
      But, it’s definitely a day worth having to raise male issues, just as important as having a women’s day in that respect, I’m sure you would agree.

  4. Barry the Hatchet

    “Irrefutable research shows that mothers typically are nurturing, soft, gentle, comforting, protective and emotional. Fathers tend to be challenging, prodding, loud, playful and encourage risk taking. Children need a balance of protection and reasonable risk taking. If a positive male role model is not present in the life of a child there is a void in this area. Children who live in this environment are more likely to be involved in criminal activity, premarital sexual activity, do poorer in school and participate in unhealthy activities.”

    Iona Institute, is that you??

      1. Ms Piggy

        Patriarchy is really really bad for men as well as women – and I suppose the point being made though is that it is overwhelming men who control the political, economic, social and media structures which create the gender expectations and behavioural conventions which contribute to the rates of male suicide etc. Whereas in the case of the disadvantages and oppressions experienced by women (which are frankly too numerous to list), they are *also* a product of the political, economic, social and media structures controlled by men. And since this is true 365 days a year, it could be addressed on any one of them, really.

        1. Dόn Pídgéόní

          +1. If MRAs directed half of the energy they use sending rape threats to feminists and adjusting their fedoras towards addressing patriarchal attitudes to men we could all make a difference maybe.

          1. Dόn Pídgéόní

            Possibly but I have yet to see a rape threat from a feminist or to see any debate descending into threats of violence as quickly as they do if an MRA is involved. Just shows you how threatened some men feel which is weird if we are all trying to achieve the same thing.

          2. Clampers Outside!

            True Don.

            On a side note, I also believe that the title of “MRA” is thrown at any man engaging in a gender debate who makes such threats. That labeling in itself is no good to the debate either.
            Any man engaging in the knocking of women in such a manner isn’t a “rights” activist, they’re just mysoginists.

          3. Dόn Pídgéόní

            MRAs are worse than misogynists. At least misogynists don’t hide behind the philosophies of pick-up artists dressed up as rigorous academic study into gender.

        2. Clampers Outside!

          That’s true Ms Piggy…. and “since this is true 365 days a year, it could be addressed on any one of them, really”, so it is a good thing that a day in which to do so from a male perspective has been chosen, surely.
          I’m sure you’d agree that only having a women’s day will only show one perspective, and only showing one perspective only promotes disparity and will patently not be able to address the issues on its own.

          1. Ms Piggy

            No, I think that these kind of ‘days’ (for what they’re worth, which isn’t much in my view) are meant to bring focus to those groups usually out-of-focus or marginalised from power. This most definitely does not include men.

          2. Clampers Outside!

            Men’s health is very much “out-of-focus” in comparison to the focus on women’s and for that reason, it most definitely does include men.

            The fact that an English female MP (Jess Philips) laughed at the idea of an IMD in Parliament only shows too that there is very much a need to raise the concerns (She has since back tracked, after a forced apology, on that and said she would be launching and supporting an initiative on men’s mental health and suicide)

          3. Ms Piggy

            I wouldn’t backtrack. Men are entitled to declare a ‘day’ for themselves if they want, as are white or straight people. But they might simultaneously acknowledge that they’re already in control of the power structures they’re seeking to challenge, unlike women, gay or non-White people. As for men’s health issues, the only extent to which they’re out-of-focus is in terms of men’s own attitudes to seeking assistance or health care (in the developed world, at least). In this respect they are definitely victims of patriarchal conventions which discourage self-care, but again this is more under their own control than is the case for women seeking control of their own healthcare decisions, for example. Which is what I meant in my previous comment – those in control of power structures 365 days a year don’t seem in need of a special day of empowerment. Perhaps it would be more useful if more men showed solidarity with women’s struggles, since both groups would gain from this.

    1. ReproBertie

      Grace’s attitude ts the same atitude that tells us to man up and that boy’s don’t cry and joke about feelings as something to get over or something women have and hammer home from early childhood that talking about how you feel or what’s troubling you is not something that you can do if you have something dangling between your legs.

      1. meadowlark

        Reinforcing that stereotype is just as damaging as saying women belong in the kitchen with a baby on the hip. Not helpful.

  5. The People's Hero

    Here’s some whataboutery for you….

    Much more interested in World Toilet Day….

    http://worldtoilet.org/

    No, not a joke or a ‘piss take’…

    Designed to draw attention to the essential nature of sanitation for humanity, especially in under-developed parts of the world…

    1. Dόn Pídgéόní

      Oh yes! Rose George has written some excellent books on this issue, particularly around the education and safety of girls and women.

      1. The People's Hero

        If the term ‘pit latrine’ means anything to folks, you’ll know it’ll scare the bejesus out of ya if not done right….

        Especially, as you say for girls and women…. Would love to see this on the front page….

  6. Clampers Outside!

    “Why we dont need international mens day” by some spanner

    Have a read of this, today’s Independent.co.uk, written by a journalist of feminism of four years.

    But, it’s not ‘feminism’ that respected feminists of the like of Erin Pizzey would think worthy of print. It’s the modern hate feminism written by spiteful idiots out for one-upmanship and nothing more. As Pizzey herself said, mush of modern feminism has nothing to do with equality, nothing at all with it’s original tenets.

    Enjoy! You’ll be “enlightened”
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/need-some-reasons-why-we-dont-need-international-mens-day-allow-me-to-enlighten-you-a6739611.html

    1. meadowlark

      I get the impression that she covered a semester of feminism in college and her entire understanding of it is based on this and the utter tripe spewed out on twitter by other “feminists”.

  7. meadowlark

    I have no problem with International Mens Day. If women have one so should men. That for me is part of equality. While women need to draw attention to workplace inequality and wage gaps, not to mention the atrocious treatment women receive outside of the first world eg. stoning women to death or the huge rape culture in India, men also need to draw attention to those things in society which create inequality for them. For example, paternity issues, such as custody and paternal leave, or mental health. There is no benefit to pitting genders against each other. Men should not denigrate Womens Day, and women should not scoff at Mens Day.

    1. Cathy

      All of those are issues directly related to patriarchy and the type of equality the majority of feminists aspire to, wherein we are all equal and not judged by our presenting gender or lack thereof.

      1. meadowlark

        Some of them certainly are. But I’m not certain how patriarchy is to blame for the lack of balance/equality in something like paternal leave or custody. Can you explain what you mean by this?

        1. Ms Piggy

          Well the most obvious way it’s done that is by a longstanding insistence that all childcare duties are women’s work. This not only locked women into an unequal share of those duties, it locked men out of their share of them – lack of access to parental leave being just one form that has taken.

          1. meadowlark

            I didn’t stop to think of it that way. But it’s a great point… I just read some of your other comments above and you do a great job of illustrating how patriarchy can be a damaging thing to men and women. Thanks for that :)

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