Launched today.
NeedaAbortionIreland writes:
We now know it is not sufficient that women die in order for the state to repeal its abortion law. We now know that the State North and South will isolate, prosecute and torture vulnerable people irrelevant of public opinion.
When confronted with such an attack on our health and on our lives, endless political debates are not enough, action is needed.
Faced with a State that refuses to provide for the healthcare of women, we must facilitate access to this healthcare ourselves and provide the conditions for people to practice this care.
Medical abortion is a unique example of this, as it is healthcare which can be practiced easily and safely at home, with a 2 day course of medication.
Needabortionireland.org will support women in accessing abortion pills in Ireland through Women Help Women.
We provide practical help in accessing pro choice healthcare, a live text support service between 6pm to 9pm everyday, and care packages to make people’s experience of abortion as comfortable as possible….
I’m not usually a person to speak out on either side of this issue.
But this seems incredibly irresponsible.
This will only end badly.
Stick to not speaking out.
As stated below by others who voiced more of an opinion –
My issue stands with the lack of medical supervision.
you don’t speak out. but you do.
then you adopt the well the crowd says approach.
you seem to have it together.
Someone points out the dangers of strangers giving out medical advice and you attack them? Classy.
As always Disasta, you miss the point and attack the person.
My point above was that I wouldn’t normally, my convictions and beliefs are my own.
The only point I made, was that this will end badly.
That point was elaborated on below in further comments. By ending badly, I think it’s pretty clear that I am of the opinion that medical advice and drugs should only be doled out by a medical professional with some form of medical supervision.
This will only end badly. I won’t go into scenarios but it doesn’t take a vivid imagination to see the endless negative possibiltiies of this
There was no point made.
“this seems incredibly irresponsible.” – so you actually don’t know anything.
“This will only end badly” – fact eh?
They never said they were going to hand out pills to all and sundry.
“Needabortionireland.org will support women in accessing abortion pills in Ireland through Women Help Women.” Allow me to simplify, they will help women gain access to an approved drug for their predicament. That’s all they said, to read more into it or accuse them of anything else is slander and conjecture.
Disasta is absolutely right on this
Oh the irony
Deny women the right to information on termination then complain about someone attacking the “person”
The state must stop torturing women. Convenient healthcare now! Facilitated access to comfortable, torture-free women’s healthcare and women caring for their health, is a human right
Because medical supervision worked so well for Savita?
Doctors operating under our archaic laws and you blame the medical supervision. That’s hilarious.
Convenient healthcare now! Women tending to their own healthcare if necessary. In comfort and without torture!
‘Medical abortion is a unique example of this, as it is healthcare which can be practiced easily and safely at home’
The language though.
The awful, chilling, sanitised language
Medical supervision is needed but that can only be done after the 8th has been repealed.
If anyone has a vote on the NUI panel or any Seanad vote, please use it to select candidates who support repealing the 8th.
Dubloony. I’m an nui voter and the First thing I did was rule out those not in support of repealing the 8th.
I dunno…
I’m kind of coming around to the idea that having Ronan Mullen in there does wonders for the causes to which he’s opposed. He’s responsible for at least 1 or 2% of the Yes vote for marriage equality IMO.
He’s been a great compass for me, if we’re in agreement I’m on the wrong side of the issue ;o)
Why would what you seem to be referring to be an issue? Why are homophobic comments like this allowed?
Charming.
Haha there’s some merit to this
Plus you never know what actual mischief he might get up to if he ever did more than bore the arse off the stenographer in the Seanad
best of luck to them in their fight
I think that’s the first time I’ve seen a comment from you that doesn’t have the word “blushirts”.
It feels strangely refreshing.
not really a blushirt issue for me, except how far they’ve fallen fro the fitzgerald leadership of the 1980’s
Isn’t there a risk with doing this without medical supervision though? And a legal fear if medical attention needs to be sought for a complication? And a possibility it’ll be used overly late in the pregnancy?
I don’t know enough about it but I think I’m more comfortable giving to the Abortion Support Network – they cover costs for women to get from Ireland to Britain for actual medical care.
Of course there is a risk, the worst of those risks came true for that poor girl in Belfast during the week. But that shows how desperate people are to get abortions, and they will continue to do so despite the illegality. You can go to a hospital (as the above site says) and say you’ve had a miscarriage, but those who are afraid to will stay away. Mifepristone and misoprostol can be used up to nine weeks.
Keep donating to ASN,(I do it on the regular) maybe they will be able to afford better marketing so more people know about their services and travel to get them done safely.
Yeah I’m doing a DD, their boss really impressed me in an interview I heard, minding people going through it but at the same time raging that it’s even needed. Rich women have choices, poor women have babies.
I’d hate for anyone to be worried even without cause after having only the pill and no one to help and be too scared to go seek any.
There’s an associated risk with any medication.
The pills are prescribed with medical supervision, this is a service to support women who are taking them.
The same thing is sine where use of the pills to end a pregnancy is legal.
In the very unlikely chance woman needs to go to a Dr or hospital (leas the 2%) there is no way by medical examination or any blood test to prove she took pills to induce a miscarriage.
Medical professionals are under no legal or professional obligation to report to the garda if a woman does disclose she has used pills.
How are the “pills prescribed with medical supervision?” Like practically, how is a woman availing of this service actually medically supervised?
They look inside her brain to see if it’s been damaged by interaction with caring concern trolls
An online consult simple, asking all the same questions as would be asked fact to face
Thanks Sharrow. Are doctors happy to prescribe drugs without meeting someone face to face? And to prescribe into a jurisdiction where the drugs are illegal?
“Are doctors happy to prescribe drugs without meeting someone face to face? And to prescribe into a jurisdiction where the drugs are illegal?”
This is exactly what Women on Web do.
Remote medical consultations happen all over the world, and prescriptions are in some cases faxed or emailed then to a pharmacy. This is what happens with women on web and the pharmacy which is based in India fill the prescription and they pills are posted to countries where they are needed.
Doctors all over the world practise telemedicine, its a pretty established way of delivering healthcare
Hard to say, really. A few months after giving birth we had a contraceptive failure so I took the morning after pill, which is similar to these pills. While I had to speak to the pharmacist before taking the pill (and at that, it was just about permanent contraception until I told her I’d recently given birth), there was no other medical oversight necessary or offered.
Obviously, one doesn’t like to stereotype people who are against this measure, but I suspect they would also be wary of any measure a woman could use to control her fertility.
Yeah, no. Pretty much just abortion I’m against.
I don’t like this, it doesn’t address the potential medical or psychological needs of a woman and
You can go to the hospital and say you’re having a miscarriage (because you are). Psychological care not really necessary , it’s not a big deal it’s a medical procedure. Some people may feel they need someone to talk to after but not all. The well woman centre and others have post abortion services as far as I know.
This isn’t an ideal situation but it’s all that’s possible for some people right now .
yes, not an ideal situation, which is why I don’t like it. If it becomes common knowledge that this is happening, maybe it will expedite a referendum, but tbh I’d prefer a family member of my own ‘to get the boat’
I’m basing this on conversation with people who have went to Engaln, and conversations with people in medicine
Seems borderline illegal to me. Depends what’s in these “care packages” and how far this “practical help” extends.
Still though. It was a great old election for the unborn babies wasn’t it.
It actually was.
Pretty sure it’s totally illegal.
I’m of the mind that respecting Victorian laws mandating sentences of hard labour for women in crisis is immoral though, soz. It’s not just Soldiers of Christ who have consciences.
It’s not illegal if it’s just providing information, is it?
And the law that makes abortion illegal in Ireland is a 2014 law. Not a Victoria law. Protection of Life in Pregnancy Act, isn’t it?
Nah information giving is legal via referendum in the Republic innit? I meant the 1861 law in NI in the news this week, that’s already found to be in breach of human rights by the High Court. I think it’s the same law that was in effect down south til 2014 actually.
Though our 2014 one isn’t any better – she could face 14 years in prison if she’d been in Dublin and not Belfast.
Mad when the world went mental for Trump even suggesting women should be punished for abortion if it was made illegal in the States. He could hire FG and the DUP to help him draft it.
Yeah. Like I said, if is legal.
True, the NI act is Victorian. But our ROI one is 2 years old.
With a Victorian spirit laced through it.
Sit the hysterical woman in front of a panel of ‘experts’ to determine if she’s deserving / telling the truth.
Give her a life sentence if she steps out of line.
Nope information is only legal if given as part of a confidential counselling session other wise it breaks the 1995 abortion information act.
No the 2013 protection of life in pregnancy only amended the 155 year old law, to add up to a possibilie 14 years criminal sentence. Did not delete or remove the victorian law.
+1 Why does it even matter if it’s Victorian? It’s still wrong.
Groups like this will be more likely to address a woman’s medical or psychological needs than judgemental so called “pro life” groups who just offer condemnation and a lust for punishment. NeedabortionIreland, Women On Waves, Abortion Support Network aren’t there for profit or to judge. They’re providing a necessary service to women with crisis pregnancies who don’t have a couple of grand handy for a “lifestyle” choice of an abortion in the UK.
Completely agree. We need to flush out the concern trolls
+1
This is irresponsible and dangerous. Procuring an abortion in this manner would remain illegal post-repeal.
“This is irresponsible and dangerous” – supporting women certainly is. Clown.
you obviously care little for women’s safety Disasta. why do you hate women?
Yes disasta who can hate women so much.
Jaysus wept
Trollomnomnomnom
Abortion is safer than giving birth. There’s some concern for women’s health right there
you guys would much rather women die in botched abortions right?
Procuring an abortion in this manner would absolutely remain illegal post a repeal of the 8th, but only until the protection of life during pregnancy act is turned over and the offenses agains the person act is revised. Once the 8th is appealed this can be done in legislation without the need for a public vote.
As for irresponsible? That’s a matter of opinion. I feel the more places that offer the ‘abortion pill’ and can be trusted to send the real thing is good.
As for dangerous? As Dón points out it’s less dangerous than being pregnant. As I pointed out on another thread earlier today, there are proven links between lack of access to abortion, mental health issues and suicide during pregnancy, and as Sharrow points out above there’s a very slim chance of excess bleeding when taking these pills that can be dealt with by A&E.
(as always, I put abortion pill into quotation marks because it’s a series of pills and their use in abortion is off-label, they were developed to induce stomach cramps. I could post their names but that’s technically illegal even though the information is on the WHO website)
Even with abortion legislated for, it’d still be unlicensed practice of medicine/pharmacy.
That in itself is irresponsible and dangerous, whether it’s pertaining to abortion or any other health issue.
Whether that’d be criminalised or not is another matter.
That said, a more ethical protest would meet huge barriers. What they’re doing is a feasible, effective option.
Well, once we have proper access to abortion in Ireland, presumably women won’t need to avail of the service any more, as they’ll be able to speak to a medical professional and get decent care here.
Complaining tha something like this is irresponsible or dangerous is sorta missing the point though. Women who don’t want to be pregnant and don’t have access to abortion will frequently turn to desperate measures to terminate the pregnancy. There was an article on this very website not too long ago linking to an article from the Abortion Support Network, a UK-based organisation who assist women who can’t afford to travel in getting to the UK, giving them a place to say and so on. It featured a number of stories of women who tried drinking bleach or other poisons, who tried to crash their cars in an attempt to miscarry.
The fact of the matter is that taking the ‘abortion pill’ is far more responsible and safer than the so-called back-alley abortion, or throwing yourself down the stairs, or whatever else a desperate woman will try to do. It’s taking the very same pill that is used all around the world to terminate pregnancies every day, that’s used to evacuate wombs after natural miscarraiges, and is described on the WHO website as a vital medication.
What’s truly irresponsible and dangerous is denying women access to abortion.
The pills are used globally this way, Women have a medical consult, get prescribed the pills go home and take them.
Same proceedures and pills are used and prescribed here in cases of incomplete miscarriage, to women by our maternity hospitals and maternity units.
Who will provide the medical consultation?
Doctors working with Women on Web.
How will “NeedanabortionIreland” deal with a woman who presents with a medical condition ?
As I’m not their representative on Earth, contact them on their website http://www.needabortionireland.org
I’m sure they’ll have all the information you need.
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life, my Broadsheet friend!
*imaginary fist bump*
That was excellent.
Do they have a licence to administer medication?
They are not practicing medicine they are offering support for those who get the pills with womenhelp.org, via text message and a support box of things to help.
Hi Sharrow . Are you facilitating access to a healthcare service which is actively involved in the procurement of medicine from a pharmacy in India ? Does this pharmacy have a name or even a licence ?
facilitating access? you mean by posting links to womenhelp.org?
The Pharmacist was interviewed a while ago http://www.globalwomenconnected.com/2016/01/sending-abortion-pills-from-india-all-around-the-world/
Let’s hope they have a better solution as to what to do with the fetus other than sticking it in the bin or flushing it down the jacks. Maybe take a leaf out of the Provo’s book and “disappear” the remains?
Remains ? Abortion with pills generally happens very early on, all you get is basically a very heavy period . The more people are educated about being able to access abortion as early as possible the better .
Up to 9 weeks, risk is low for most ba those with clotting issues, which is why medical supervision is recommended. Also known as covering your @ss.
What was she supposed to do, dig a hole and bury it in the back yard and say a few prayers? The description by a housemate with an obvious agenda made it sound like there was the bloodied leg of a toddler sticking out of a pedal bin. The average size of a 10 – 12 week old foetus is an inch so the housemate must have done some rummaging around to find it.
Maybe was supposed to call the funeral home to get the maxi pads taken away by the undertakers and a procession organised..
Eamonn Clancy, disappear the remains? What are you on about? Like bury the maxi pads in a box?
@ Daisy Chainsaw : It’s ok, Daisy. I am just rasing pertinent questions to highlight this obvious quackery.
What quackery is this J? The pills work, so it’s not like some scam where women are sent knockoffs or fakes from ebay. The groups providing access to information and medication aren’t doing it for profit. They have licenced experts providing info and prescriptions.
There is no proper and adequate medical supervision . They are not licensed to administer any medication and they are not insured .Abortion is a medical procedure which should be carried out by medical practitioners .
Correct. It’s precisely why abortion needs to be legal, so women have the option of having a medical procedure in a safe environment, under medical supervision.
Pffft. Nah, the law is saving lives and stopping abortions. Just like it stops teenage drinking.
Information is great, but there are greater concerns that have been raised on abortion surrounding timely medical care, specifically in aftercare, that this system may miss.
http://Www.abortionaftercare.ie already covers this and is funded by the hse.
+1 Good response!
I agree St Mildred.
Poor choice of name – makes the whole thing seem flippant and irresponsible.
That’s women for you! Flippant and irresponsible, wanting abortions all the time.
The middle class have always saved their blushes by heading the UK and I’d say plenty of priests’ families have paid for abortions there too.
It’s always been those with less resources who have less choice and then get condemned from the moral high ground, populated by the very same people who act contrary to what they preach.
In Ireland the shame is always in getting caught, not the act itself.
A lot of working class girls don’t CHOOSE to have abortions. Nothing to do with affordability.
Let’s have more of these initiatives to break the pro life people’s backs
The risk in providing this service outweigh the risk of not. Simples. I too wish there wasn’t a need for it, but that’s what happens when your govt won’t listen, init.
I think that’s far from clear tbf
Ignore this – read it wrong!!! Derp
100% Clampers.
so it’s like erowid, except for abortion pills, not actual pills
On the off chance that you use erowid for information, I was wondering if I could ask you; how accurate is that website in detailing potential effects of whatever drug? Is the website accurate/unbiased when it comes to listing potential dangers?
I think all comments on this subject should start with the caveat – “I’m a man.. therefore, you know, I’ll never get pregnant.. but “, so we can probably skip about 99.9% of the comments.
If bloody only, we’d all get a little bit of peace.
“I’m a heterosexual and thus will never seek to marry a person of the same gender, but…”
+1 Ahjaysis..
It’s gas how people are so concerned about things that don’t affect them in any way.
The boyfriend was telling me about a discussion he had with some of the lads he works with there recently.. they were banging on that they don’t believe in gay marriage.. he was saying to them, well it doesn’t affect you, so why should it bother you.
We were discussing how they don’t get the fact that it’s very telling of their own insecurities about their sexuality.
Same insecurity you see with abortion.. with the innate power women have, men will try to control that.
If it was only men who could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.
Yeah. It’s insecurity that makes people oppose abortion. It’s never anything to do with holding the view (which I understand you don’t share) that unborn children are worthy of protection.
When they’re unborn, they’re not children.
I’ve no interest in anything else you’ve to say on the matter now.. thanks.
Of course you don’t. Because you can’t even countenance the idea that other people think differently to you on the matter. Far easier to ascribe differing viewpoints as indicating an “insecurity” in the person holding them.
Whatever about unborn children, will no one stand up for unconceived teenagers? Contraception is wiping them out.
“Because you can’t even countenance the idea that other people think differently to you on the matter. ”
It has fuppity fupp all to do with you..as you will never get pregnant.
Why not mind your own beewax.
Considering how you literally pleaded me to say “destroyed their unborn baby” (emotive rhetoric) as opposed to “aborted their foetus” (objective fact) it’s pretty difficult to believe your faux empathy act. It’s dishonest. You’re all about propagating narratives.
Anne. The protection of human life is all of our beeswax. We have a right and obligation to try to protect human life.
Yeah, possibly you believe that (cough) unborn children should be protected. But in reality, you believe that actually born, sentient women are worthless and don’t deserve protection and are completely unable to act in a thoughtful, responsible manner when assessing their own lives and realities.
The second part of your statement is completely and utterly untrue though Jane. That’s not at all what I believe.
Ah sure, it’s murder but not murder murder
Well that and savagery
“I’m a man.. therefore, you know, I’ll never get pregnant.. but “ I think the solution here is to give women control over their own bodies and to put the laws in place needed to facilitate this.
lol +1
I’m a man……and I think human life, even in the underdeveloped form in the womb is worthy of the right to life.
Ja know what, I do too.. but a woman’s life comes first.
Her life, her body, her decision.
A woman’s body shouldn’t be seen as an incubator for life, if she chooses it not to be.
When it’s your womb, you get to call the shots of what does and does not happen to it, okay?
That’s my basic principle, everyone can think what they like, no one has the right to put those thoughts into action on another’s body without their consent.
I have a right to life, I have no right to demand the use of one of your kidneys. My right to life is not being denied by you refusing to save it with an organ donation.
That’s basically it, ahjayzis. Nobody other than pregnant women are legally obliged to make their internal organs available to sustain the life of another person. Supposing there was some law which enabled a situation where someone could be legally compelled to donate their kidney – or even their blood – without their consent. There would be uproar, and rightly. We do not operate on the basis that other people’s bodies are raw materials into which we can co-opt, it’s beneath the dignity of humans.
Women are, by some interprestations, humans, I gather.
This is quite a compelling and logical argument. But it isn’t complete and therefore flawed. Imagine a situation where a person is holding a child in a stroller on a hill over a busy road. Deliberately letting go of the stroller, allowing the child to roll into traffic and to be killed, would, we’re all agreed I think, be manslaughter or murder.
There is no law that says a person must hold a stroller on a hill, but acting in a deliberate way to kill the child is still wrong.
But that child can still breathe, it’s heart will continue to beat unaided. A foetus cannot do that until at least 35 weeks, and that is with medical intervention.
There is also a flaw in your argument. You equate an abortion with the killing of a child, this is incorrect.
So is it manslaughter if a mother doesn’t donate one of her kidneys to her gravely ill son and he dies as a direct result?
You’re leaping from a foetus connected into and living off your body to a fully developed other person outside your body though. They are not compatible in any way.
You can’t push the wheelchair of someone you’re caring for onto a busy road – you can feel free to disconnect me if I’ve tapped directly into your cardiovascular and nervous system though.
Bodily autonomy isn’t violated by hanging on to a stroller. Our duty of care to our fellow men and women stops at the epidermus though. A parent cannot deny their child healthcare if they need it – they can deny them their own organs.
We have total sovereignty over what happens inside our bodies – I don’t believe women should be a special case where that right goes into abeyance. Pregnant women have full equity in their bodies, they don’t become part owners for the duration.
News pointing out flaws in other people’s logic is hilarious given our conversation yesterday. Completely hilarious.
Hilarious isn’t a word I’d use
Does anyone know if there is an age restriction on getting a vasectomy? I can’t find anything online.
According to the hse website women must be over thirty and have had children to be eligible for sterilisation.
“Surgeons are more willing to perform sterilisation when women are over 30 years old and have had children.”
Vasectomy can be reversed though, can sterilisation (awful term!)?
It’s possible but I don’t think it’s as simple or as likely to succeed as it is for men.
Yeah, that was the general gist I got from reading about them both. A friend of mine had her tubes tied when she was 33 and she said it was the best thing she’s ever done for herself…
I suppose, to me, it feels as though it is another instance where the state feels that it knows better than a woman on this, another example of women not having full control over their reproductive organs. I’m aware it is not a clear cut issue though, and these are just the impressions I got from doing a bit of googling.
What I’d love to see
“I’m a man.. therefore, you know, I’ll never get pregnant.. I used to be pro-choice but seeing as you think NO UTERUS = NO OPINION, I have changed my stance and intend voting to retain the Eighth Amendment”
The Repeal The Eighth campaign will not succeed without the votes of pro-choice men.
I don’t think that’s her sentiment.
“I’m a man.. therefore, you know, I’ll never get pregnant… but…”
is a different story to;
“I’m a man.. therefore, you know, I’ll never get pregnant… so I believe the best person to make a decision for a woman is that woman herself and that’s why I oppose the 8th and support her right to choose”
I’m a mouthy queer hence you know this stuff doesn’t affect me either but I have nothing better to do than rant on boratsheet all day
Funnily enough, I was pro-life until I read this comment, and I have now changed my stance and intend voting to repeal the Eighth Amendment.