It’s All Ahead Of You

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This afternoon.

Dublin city centre.

The Union of Students (USI) in Ireland estimate 5,000 students joined their national demonstration today to warn the government of the impact of income-contingent loans on students and young people.

The march headed towards the Department of the Taoiseach for a performance by the Rubberbandits and a call on the Government and the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills to choose the publicly-funded third level education model as outlined in the Cassells Report.

FIGHT!

Harambe?

Rollingnews

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20 thoughts on “It’s All Ahead Of You

  1. Kieran NYC

    Fair play

    I have friends here who are crippled with student loan debt. It’s a bad path to go down.

    Imagine having to pay off a student loan on top of rent and saving for a mortgage, a car loan, any other credit card debt, etc… Horrific.

    1. Fact Checker

      “It’s a bad path to go down”

      What if you are investing in a qualification that means a better-paying job for the next 40 years? Is that a bad route just because it’s debt financed?

      1. Kieran NYC

        Yes. Land out of college into a jobs market with little to no wage growth at the moment, trying to pay off student loans, rent, saving for a mortgage (and then paying *that* down), probably a car loan, and that’s before the rest of life expenses. That’s an incredibly daunting and unfair pile to load on someone just starting out. I have friends here who realistically think they will never pay off their student debts until about the time they retire.

        Not to mention that a Masters is becoming a standard requirement.

        “What if you are investing in a qualification that means a better-paying job for the next 40 years?”

        Why is it not seen as society investing in a better economy in the future, resulting in better-paying retirement benefits?

        1. Fact Checker

          Education offers societal benefits AND it offers private rewards.

          Some mechanism that captures some of that private reward for the taxpayer (be it through income contingent loans or a graduate tax) is no bad thing.

          For example the taxpayer subsidises medical training to an amount not for off €100k per graduate. (Most of these students are already from high-income backgrounds btw). Why should the taxpayer (aka the rest of us) not ask for a modest return on our investment?

          For the record I attended an equivalent march as an undergraduate, but have been reflecting a little since.

          1. Kieran NYC

            “Some mechanism that captures some of that private reward for the taxpayer (be it through income contingent loans or a graduate tax) is no bad thing.”

            Like progressive income tax?

            If someone goes to college and succeeds wildly, then they’ll contribute far more to the state coffers than if they hadn’t.

            And if someone goes and doesn’t succeed, well then they wouldn’t be great at paying if their student loan either.

          2. Fact Checker

            No one is proposing anything other than an income-contingent, low interest loan system.

            Commercial banks currently providing unsecured lending at 10% are not charities……

  2. seanban

    passed a couple of them earlier in Merrion Square wondering how they ended up in St. Stephens Green, bless.

  3. DubLoony

    Cassells did recommend public funding.

    The effects of loans on students inn US & UK have been horrific. A lifetime spent in debt, chilling effect on opting to go into higher ed.

  4. Steve

    Here we go – the usual, it’s always the same with this crowd, sick of it at this stage.

    There’s no way that there’s 5000 in those photos. 376 max!!!

  5. Fact Checker

    There is a very good argument for state subsidisation of SOME level of third-level education. But different third-level courses cost quite different amounts to the state: on a spectrum of arts to dentistry.

    At the moment they sticker price is the same for all, even though certain degrees lead (almost inevitably) to better pay. The US data are here, I doubt they differ too much for Ireland: http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/majors-that-pay-you-back/bachelors?page=23

    When the taxpayer spends a lot on your education, and you earn a lot as a result (think pharmacy) there is a very good argument for having to pay some of it back. Either through a graduate tax system or indeed an income contingent loans scheme.

    1. Joe Small

      I think you should also recognise that Ireland has one of the highest rates of third level attendance in the EU – which both is and isn’t a good thing. It comes at a cost – apprenticeships in this country are poorly regarded and unappreciated. Many qualified electricians earn more than a sociology graduate ever will and are far more economically useful. I know university is about far more than being economically useful but it is a factor.

  6. Increasing Displacement

    A whole 5000?

    I would have thought a lots more than 5000 would prefer not to pay for college

  7. Fact Checker

    Ireland also has a very high third-level drop-out rate. Particularly in the ITs. It is hugely wasteful at a personal and financial level.

    Non-vocational third-level should be encouraged for those who are able for it and will benefit from it. And if they make a good living on the back of their qualification they should pay it back appropriately.

    Btw I appreciate that a world without sociology graduates would be a worse place and in a way that is impossible to quantify.

  8. Turgenev

    A country that educates its people and makes sure there are jobs for those educated will get a massive payback for its investment. Instead, the market-worshippers propose to send out a generation of students with tens of thousands of debt around their necks – and as a result, these newly-qualified people will inevitably emigrate, and most of their skills will be lost to the country. Bad economic thinking.

    1. Kieran NYC

      I mean, it’s not as if there’s a big cautionary tale available 3000 miles from Dublin or anything…

Comments are closed.

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