Panic On The Streets Around The Carlisle



bwplan1862 Bray Athletic Grounds/Carlisle Grounds, Bray, Co. Wicklow (top), Bray Wanderers Strategic Plan (above)

Further to the Sunday Business Post story on the future of the Bray Wanderers and the inclusion of a new 4500 seat stadium in their future strategic plan.

Bray Wanderers shareholders will lobby present their plans to Councillors tonight in Bray at a public meeting.

Bray Wanderers who currently lease the Carlisle Grounds from the town council cite that the old grounds are not big enough for their future plans and that there is a need to aquire a site outside of Bray for their new greenfield leisure complex.

Steven Matthews, Green Party said:

If they (Bray Wanderers) want to go, it’s up to them, we haven’t initiated any process to ask them to leave. It’s the remit of the councillors to decide what happens to the land. It’s public land, it belongs to the council and we have no plans to develop it.

Any developer looking at Bray would say: There’s one I’d like to keep an eye on.

*drops fish and chips*

Save The Carlisle Grounds (Facebook Public Group)

Bray Wanderers Owners Push For Carlisle Grounds Land Swap (Sunday Business Post)

Paul Cahill (photo credit: Bray Wanderers Strategic Plan)

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16 thoughts on “Panic On The Streets Around The Carlisle

  1. Liam

    I wouldn’t have any issue with the ground being redeveloped – it’s right beside the station and the seafront, it’s a prime site and it’s not as if it’s currently a park. BW presumably want to be the beneficiaries of any development, but they don’t own the land so I don’t see why they should. They struggle to pull a crowd in the centre of Bray, I’m not sure how they think it will be better if they move to some suburban field.

  2. Owen

    Id hate to see the grounds knocked and some over priced apartments put up. Id prefer to see a development plan for the grounds that keeps it as a sporting venue.

    I do questions the strategy put forward though. Very tight timeline. Also, Mar 2018: “Revenue Arrears Cleared”. How? If they can’t do it now how will they after the start a development plan.

    1. mickmick

      Council should rezone the land for sport/leisure. I’m sure there are plenty of other sports clubs in Bray that would like to use it if Wanderers have no more need of it.

    2. John Corcoran

      I attach the above two extracts from Bray Wanderers Limited, Abridged financial statements for the two years ended 30th November 2014 and 30th November 2015. They were both recieved at CRO Carlow on 14th November 2016.

      On page 9 of the 2014 accounts under the heading “Going Concern” it states;

      “Finally, the club has recently found itself at the centre of a fraud allegation which is alleged to have occured between 2006 and 2008 and relates to the misappropriation of a significent amount of grant funding while the club was under different administration”.

      On page 9 of the 2015 accounts under the heading “Going Concern” it states

      ” the club was selected to form part of the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport’s (DTTAS) 2014 Capital Inspection Programme on foot of an alleged shortfall in the cost of ground improvements relative to grant income awarded to the club between 1998 and 2009. The fieldwork stage of the inspection took place on 9 October 2014″.

  3. Cian

    There is a huge amount of empty development ground on the Dublin side of the river – the old golf course. So this ‘prime’ site isn’t exactly going to be worth 10s of millions.

    The biggest problem with Bray is the traffic – it really needs another bridge across the river (or use the existing bridge beside the harbour and link it to the M11 ‘Bray north’ roundabout).

    1. William Dargan

      I think you’ll find that the land on the Dublin side is either the site of an old dump, or on a known flood plain.!

      1. Cian

        There have been massive flood relief efforts going on along the Dargle from Fassaroe to the harbour for the last few years.
        I don’t know of the dump – but there was planning for the redevelopment of the golf course 10 years ago.

        About 12 years ago, there was a plan to create a new shopping centre in behind the corner of Main St and Quinnborough Road, they demolished a few buildings on the Main St – leaving the facades. Then the ‘new’ plan for the golf course arrived and the shopping centre was put on hold as it wouldn’t compete with the new plan, so the whole place is derelict. The land is currently used as a car park.

  4. John Corcoran

    The Carlisle grounds, Bray are owned by Wicklow County Council and Bray Wanderers have a 35 year sporting lease from 2001 at a fixed peppercorn rent, which requires that the grounds are used ONLY for soccer games.

    On July 11th 2015 a shareholder of Bray Wanderers John Deering was involved in a High Court case alleging that the club’s new owners are involved in a property play.
    Denis O’Connor who knows one of the club’s shareholders Philip Hannigan got involved late last year. Mr O’Connor featured in the Moriarty Tribunal with regards the purchase etc of the Doncaster Rovers Football Club. In February 2015 Gerry Mulvey got involved. In April 2015 Milway Dawn Ltd bought 92% of the shares of Bray Wanderers and Mr O’Connor owns 20% of this company with the balance of 80% owned by Gerry Mulvey. Mr Mulvey is a former majority shareholder in St. Patrick’s Athletic, which has it’s grounds in Inchicore, Dublin. His involvement with that club ended when he sold his shareholding in 2007 to Garrett Kelleher, the developer behind the Chicago Spire project. Mr Mulvey is said to have made a significant profit on an earlier involvement in a sports grounds near the Navan Road.

  5. Fact Checker

    Without knowledge of the specifics…….

    At a time, of housing shortages in urban areas, you have a large site very close to amenities and public transport. It is probably more efficiently used as housing than for 25-odd soccer games a year.

    The current site is good for kicking a ball around and not much else. A greenfield development could in principle house the games AND lots else like training facilities, etc, that could be used by other sporting clubs and the community.

  6. Clampers Outside!

    Let them move out so… but there’ll be no profit in the site because it should go to a mixed development including half of which should be social housing.

    BW get a new pitch, Bray council get an answer to social housing and the mixed development pays for the lot.

    Everybody wins.

    Probably be sold to a VF style fund so.

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