Next step is making this all-female masthead a normal occurrence in the @IrishTimes rather than something that only appears in exceptional circumstances https://t.co/EdMM0tVpNe
— Sorcha Pollak (@SorchaPollak) May 28, 2018
Meanwhile…
Una Mulally, writing last month:
“Why are Irish journalists once again missing a movement? The media at large does appear strangely unable to interpret political movements when they are citizen-driven and formed outside the traditional party political structures.
“The example of how much coverage was given to Renua is an interesting incident of media gravitating towards, and giving credence to, a new political entity just because it was a political party, even though Renua was instantly irrelevant.
Contrast that with how slow the media was to treat with legitimacy the protest movements around water charges, homelessness, marriage equality, transgender issues, reproductive rights, third wave feminism, and so on. Yet it’s the latter that are actually effecting social change.
I have spoken many times about the Irish media’s tendency to be disconnected from the social change that happens from the ground up. I’m sure this point of view annoys many of my colleagues, especially considering journalists are meant to be the ones “in the know”.
“My personal (unpopular) analysis is that while journalists as individuals are made up of all political persuasions and points of view, there is an odd conservatism of thought that permeates the industry.
“…Of course, the maleness of this commentary cannot be ignored. The marriage equality campaign saw a largely heterosexual media comment and patronise an LGBT+ campaign. Now we are seeing a largely male political journalistic class comment on a female-driven campaign. Perhaps if there was greater diversity in the Irish media, we would be getting different analyses.”
FIGHT!
Una Mullally: Why are Irish journalists again missing a movement? (April 16, 2018, The Irish Times)
Pic: Ruadhán Mac Cormaic
she’s dead right
Yep.
up to a point. i’m not sure about the gender slant but there is definitely a way to get things done in this country that doesn’t involve the traditional party structures, although granted they are male-dominated entities. grass roots is where it’s at for sure.
This
and if you’re good enough
you’re good enough
hate this Gender stuff
play the lads at their own game
and bate them there
The game is historically weighted in men’s favour, is the issue.
FFS, put on your gloves so and get in the ring. A man’s world is an ultra competitive world and if you think any power is going to be given to you then think again. I believe in equality but I am definitely not for equality of outcome.
Alan, in fairness, that’s pathetic. It is everyone’s world and no, women don’t have to just accept the rules if they don’t suit.
Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t realise women were sitting back on their laurels and expecting a handout. I thought we’ve been fighting tooth and nail for at least a century over equality. My mistake. Thanks for explaining it to me.
“A man’s world” LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV9CbKFmiKY
So its not a man’s world…… brilliant. Then the three of ye have nothing to be arguing about. There are so many men blamers going around. Bet ye are all fighting for equality of outcome and not equality.
Christ Alive, that awful hack brings out the worst in everyone.
Hey Starina, I am sure you are making a big difference in the feminist movement. Best of luck with the rest of your life on your own.
Ah Paul are you not in America yet ?
ah Alan, you’ve trotted out a real classic there: telling a feminist she’ll be single forever. I’m actually not single at the moment but I did have an angry lad once shout “your fella cheats on you” at me as a unique alternative. nice one.
For now you are not single….but the road is long and its easy to see where you will end up. Have seen a lot of your comments on a lot of topics…. Jez, what guy could listen to you for that long.
i love it when you talk dirty like that, Alan.
Ah Alan. Don’t be a misogynist. Be a misogynisn’t.
you’re on FIRE with those puns today, Nigel.
I may be slightly delirious from the feckin humidity.
Which game is that – waving dicks around?
“Why are Irish journalists once again missing a movement? The media at large does appear strangely unable to interpret political movements when they are citizen-driven and formed outside the traditional party political structures.
Just like the rise of UKIP and the Brexit referendum YES.
The Irish Times loves the voice of the people – just not when it’s a majority of the British people who take a decision it doesn’t like.
It really is a desperately poor newspaper – no wonder its circulation figures are dire.
Isn’t part of the problem the fact that most journalists in Ireland are part of the establishment and therefore have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
The problem is Dublin’s political/media establishment is so tiny and cliquish that it takes a brave editor to allow any independence of thought that bucks the trend and risk being frozen out.
The same thing happens in Westminster but on a bigger scale.
There’s no campaigning journalism in Ireland just dung-beetles scurrying from one pile of ordure to the other.
This website has catalogued enough instances of this to know resistance is futile and Dublin’s editors don’t have set of cojones between them and that includes the women.
howarya charger !
Shes laughably tone deaf and ignorant. Stupid person shouting from inside a bubble.
yeah, she’s a real piece of work. She was born in 1983. Celtic cub. She should read a history book if she is interested in hardship.
Shame on the Irish Times for publishing her toxic brain-farts.
She’s the quintessential millennial – never enough and always someone else’s fault while the most she is will to do is get her heart rate up.
Or maybe the mainstream media is an echo chamber? The Irish Times have plenty of female columnists, yet they failed to correctly call it.
+1.
Lazy people be lazy.
Mulally is asking questions she knows the answers to.
Renua didn’t get much right but they were media savvy. When journalists are given easy access to people with headline grabbing strong opinions or prewritten copy it isn’t surprising that they will tend to take the path of least resistance and publish it.
Most people just want to get their job done.
More womens for womens sake? What about equality in ability regardless of gender?
It’s not exactly working out that way, unless you believe that white men are superior to women and people of color and that explains why they’re clustered into well paying, influential and prominent positions to your satisfaction?
TheRealJane: what’s with the ‘white’ part of that? we’re not america. we don’t have the same histoic racial divide issues. People here often slip ‘white’ into social/political commentary on Ireland. Give Twitter a rest for a bit, you’re thinking we’re in America.
It’s sjw speak…. ie ‘claptrap’
I know we’re not America. I’m fully, 100%, all over that. In future, feel free to assume that I know which country I live in now and have always lived in.
Walking around as I do every day in this place that is Not America, I often see people who are not white. I work with people who aren’t white. I notice that the voices of non white people are notable by their absence.
You know, I’d like to hear different voices sometimes. I’d like a fresh perspective. I’m tired of the old man point of view. I’m tired of Newstalk type opinions taken as the obvious all the time.
We have a varied population. Why doesn’t public discussion reflect this?
hear hear, Jane! +1
2016 Census:
White: 95%
Black: 1%
Asian: 2%
Other (incl mixed race) 2%
I too, am very bored of the old guy opinion, and of them being in charge of everything. But slipping ‘white’ in there when non-white people in ireland make up 6.7% of the population, doesn’t really make sense. The absense of their voice in the public domain is simply down to numbers. The line ‘old white men’ is regularly used in social dialogue in the states as they have a far more diverse population than we do. Until our population becomes far more diverse, we won’t hear as much from non-whit sections of our society. The lack of it is not down to racism. The people we do hear from are often old and out of touch males, and that’s because they’re running things. That needs change, for sure, in media and politics. But don’t give Ireland a racism problem that it doesn’t have. OF course there is some, every country in the world has racists, but our slice of the pie-chart is a lot smaller and that’s oddly positive.
This reminds me of a few years ago, there was a nigerian born teen who wanted to get work as a journalist but was turned away by a number of publications. Twitter lit up and attacked these publications for not having a race balance in their ranks. An argument that would make sense in a more racially balanced population. However, there just wasn’t any young non-white journos trying to break onto the scene, and the fact of it was this kid was a bad journalist. His tweets on the matter were misspelled and grammatically awful. But people turned it into a race issue. Luckily after a while people focused on the more real problems facing our country.
Well, it makes sense to me. I want to hear from everyone and I don’t really think that bald numbers is the issue or we’d hear from women at least half the time.
This is also ageist. People are living longer,and will work longer.
hearing from 6% of the population would be a tiny market for media outlets, so it’s not going to happen. I’d prefer to sort out the gender imbalance first.
+ when you are a minority your voice still counts
Janet. Absolutely. I agree completely. But for media outlets looking to build viewership/listenership they aren’t going to really care about that.
Ah good, the SJW morons are going to be complaining about being white in Ireland too, that’s just fantastic.
Identity politics of the ultra left!!!!!! Ye are a dangerous Marxist bunch. Its well documented in history how that ideology worked out.
Did it result in an elephant getting shot in his pyjamas?
Was he in bed at the time?
How come people with no understanding of history insist on telling everyone else what’s ‘well documented’?
So its not well documented!!!! Right Dan, point to me exactly where the Marxist ideology has worked? Love to hear some facts then just a smug retort.
multiple exclamation marks are a sure indicator of a disturbed mind
Sticks and stones may break my bones but there will always be something to offend a feminist.
Says the guy having a conniption about fantasy Marxists.
Good man Nigel! Still hanging around the SJW’s and feminists in the hope that one day, just maybe, one of them will fancy ya. :)
Oh Alan. It’s not about being fancied. It’s about fancying…. social justice.
That’s a bit sad, never been fancied. Well best of luck with that strategy.
Social Justice is my bride Alan! Repealing the 8th was our same sex marriage!
Now it’s time for the honeymoon.
Jez, you are going to end up lonely with a bunch of cats for friends
I will never be lonely. Jesus was an SJW so I basically married Jesus which makes me a nun and I will live with all of the other husbands and wives of Jesus in the Convent Of Social Justice with our husband Jesus where we will have nun of your social injustuce. In fairness there will probably be social justice cats there too.
the Norse goddess Freya had a bunch of sjw cats pulling her chariot so you’re on to something there Nigel.
That gave me a good laugh there :) ! Take it easy Nigel and have a good one.
Hope for ya yet Alan.
Starina: I believe Thor had a pair of Social Justice Goats.
RealJane slipping into tumblr mode as usual.
The white male thing is american SJW stuff and she’s too entrenched now to admit it
So is calling people SJWs. That term literally came out of Tumblr.
Em… no pet, it did not, but maybe that’s where you learned of it though :0)
Rotide, I’m growing tired of your personal remarks following almost everything I say. I don’t particularly care if it continues, but I have noticed.
‘was wondering why you were so quiet lately Rots
Get back to us when a masthead full of women is as unremarkable as a masthead full of men and you don’t automatically question their abilities.
+ 1
sniper-like accuracy there, nigel – as usual
+1
Absolutely.
Judge a person on their ability, not their gender.
If anyone needs a bit of support it’s the low paid part-time workers, who happen to be predominantly women, feeding children, not blowing their earnings in the pubs or betting shops.
+1
shhhhhh – that’s not a road to instant gratification…and it’s too much work. The ego needs inflation NOW
Kathy Sheridan is ragin’.
the conservatism that permeates the industry isn’t down to journalists .. it’s down their bosses, who are tied up with people like DOB, who pushes gov. agendas to get concessions of his own.
Can we have a count on how many women choose to be stay at home Mums, as many do choose to do so.
Until a woman’s (and a man’s) choice to stay at home is respected by feminists there will never be equality outside the hime at work.
Catherine MacKinnon says so… by the way.
^home!
no – YOU go home
feminists do respect a woman’s choice to stay home. feminism is about supporting women (AND men) to succeed at whatever they do in life. but why am I telling you this, you have very set ideas on wimmin.
So feminism is about supporting men succeed yet when do it’s about power structure and undue privilege.
You can’t speak for all feminists Starina. You know there are some who don’t hold those values.
you can’t even string a coherent sentence together, don’t try to school me on feminism.
I wasn’t trying to school you and you know that. if you put the word they between when and do it makes sense.
You can’t really speak for all feminists though can you? That’s my point. Some take a different tact under the same banner.
i don’t think you quite understand what feminism entails; nor are all people who call themselves feminists actually feminist. TERFs, for example. but I digress.
Thanks….
@Yep –
feminist (n)
someone who agrees exactly with Starina
Feminism is about altering social structures so people aren’t privileged or devalued on the basis of sex and/or gender.
So long as the system that exists does judge and organise on that basis, feminists are entirely consistent in calling it out, while claiming to support both men and women. This is not a complex issue.
“while claiming to”
Claiming.
If they did respect their choose they wouldn’t seek 50:50 participation in work.
You can’t have both, that’s mathematically impossible…. unless you’re some wacko postmodernist who doesn’t believe in facts. Simples.
i don’t understand how 50:50 affects stay-at-home mums?
If you’re seeking 50:50 male:female representation at work, it doesn’t respect those women who choose to stay at home in far greater numbers than men do. Simples.
eeeeee you said my favourite/least favourite word.
I don’t agree that there’s a direct link there; also part of feminism is supporting men who want to stay at home.
You’re full of it, Starina
original! thanks Yep!
Dunno where this 50 50 stuff is from but even on the face of it if you support 50% of both genders out working then you support 50%:of both genders staying at home though haha good luck with that in this economy.
What do u mean didn’t know where 50:50 comes from?
It’s wanted in politics in the Dail, are u going to say this news to u now :)
^Dail given as an example.
Fair enough. You can be pretty vague. My point stands.
That was a point….? sure :)
Yes. The thing you just swerved to avoid.
3rd wave feminism is about always and everywhere supporting women as a monolith. to take anything you can because it’s good for women and you are entitled to it – you are justified even if you’ve never suffered sexism.
you know who made the patriarchy? women..because it was an easy life. you know why women not voting wasn’t an issue? conscription…because war is dangerous.
we probably need a war and for many young men to die for you to be reminded of how sweet you have it and just how much men provided historically – I love your lazy, entitled attitude.
‘This place needs trolls’ he said. ‘If I touch nerves that will replace the love I don’t know how to feel.’
That doesn’t even make sense buddy – are you having an aneurysm from too much time on Broadsheeple?
I bet you have a complex relationship with respect and women for all your virtue…hahaha
If feminism was about supporting men, then why do they support the ideology behind The Duluth Model of Domestic Violence intervention, created by feminists, which states that no man can be a victim of domestic violence, and no women can be a perpetrator.
And at the last DV conference held by feminist run DV agency SAFEIreland, they invited a speaker who says that statistics on male victims of DV are damaging to their cause (Speaker was Karen Ingala Smith).
Can tell me how either of those two positions help men?
As for boys… boys are held to a schooling standard of girls, who have no interest in rough housing play, yest it is known that that kind of pay is very important to a young boys development. Feminism pushes that standard.
Can yo tell me how feminisms interfering with young boys development is helping them?
The answer to both, is that neither HELPS men or boys. So please, dont patronise with the notion that feminism has the desire to ‘help’ men. It has the desire to socially reconstruct them regardless of consequences because the basis of feminist theory is riveted to the idea of the ‘blank slate’ and gender is socially constructed.
Until feminism abandons such practices it cannot be seen as a ‘help’ to men and boys.
Sorry for typos :)
When will the straw feminists finally respect a woman’s right to choose?
McKinnon a strawman? LOL :)
Who is she and what does she say and why should I care?
She’s was one of the biggest voices in feminism for decades. I’m surprised you don’t know her.
And what did she say? I just remembered it’s actually often impossible to work out exactly what point you’re trying to make. You sound as if you’re castigating feminism but you seem to be saying you’re in agreement with a prominent feminist who seems to be saying something correct about equality of opportunity therefore… what? Which feminists specifically disrespect the choice of women who choose to stay at home, how many are there, and how many other feminists disagree and support that choice? Have feminist views evolved over time as society changed and attitudes shifted? I demand a full survey of these issues before I accept that you are making an informed critique!
I’m made a point about stay at home persons.
I pointed out that a very well known feminist also makes this point, so that it might avoid knee jerk cries that I’m being anti-feminist…. but clearly feminists cannot agree themselves.
“Which feminists”, “how many”… I don’t know how many, but clearly those that seek 50:50 representation disrespect those who choose to stay at home, otherwise they’d adjust the target to account for them, yeah? But they don’t, because they don’t care.
Okay so just thundering lack of clarity on your part despite, in fairness, your best efforts. Fair enough! Maybe an adjustment to the 75:25 ratio of pre-emptive defensiveness to actual point no-one seems to have an issue with will reduce confusion in future.
Stop pet, you’re being silly.
Yeah setting a target for anything is inherently disrespectfull of all the people who don’t want to do that thing, this is well known fact.
The target is nonsensical if they are to respect those who stay at home.
You do know basic math and percentages, because it doesn’t appear that you do.
^?
I’m waiting for an actual argument connecting these targets to disrespect for people who remain at home and I am waiting in vain.
If targeting 50:50 male:female in jobs in the workforce, this does not take into account those who stay at home.
If they’re employment targets what do they have to do with people who stay at home? They’re literally about people who want to go out to work. They don’t take people who stay at home into account because they’re not relevant to people who stay at home. It’s like saying targets for employing teachers don’t take plumbers into account. Why would they? (Unless it was a plumbing school, I suppose…)
How can you have 50:50 when some of one group, and even more from the other opt out and stay at home?
I await your response Nidge :)
100 people
50 men
50 women
All working age, and all other things being equal.
10 women opt to stay at home.
2 men do the same.
Now tell me how you get 50:50 out of the remaining, thanks.
https://www.cso.ie/multiquicktables/quickTables.aspx?id=qlf01
1.2m men in workforce
1.0m women in workforce
Use the figs above from the cso if you don’t like my hypothetical.
1:1.2 is not 50:50 but you seem to think u can make it so…. jaysus.
If there are a hundred people working for you then that means you have a hundred people who are working because they want to or need to. If 12 people opt to stay at home you only have 88 people working for you and you need to hire some more to bring your workforce back on track. These new hires will either want to or need to be out working. The people who decide to leave work and stay at home are only relevant inasmuch as you have to replace them.
And you source of employees is 1:1.2 female to male not 50:50
I’m not trying to make anything anything. I’m trying to work out what it is you’re trying to argue. Can you restate your premise? You’re saying this 50-50 target, which you’re very vague about except ‘the Dail,’ shows feminists don’t respect people who choose to stay at home, despite also quoting a prominent feminist saying that they do. You quote CSO figures that only prove this target hasn’t been reached in overall employment.
It’s like you heard a really clever argument somewhere and now you’re trying to repeat it and it’s sort of falling apart in front of you. I would suggest that economic pressure more than feminism is a disrespector of the desire to stay at home in either gender.
If being fair, the target cannot be achieved.
Achieved… yet? Targets are often, by their nature, things that are worked towards over periods of time. But the target being difficult to achieve was not your original premise. Unless it was. In which case, okay, whatever.
1+1 is 2
Did you just reboot?
Catherine McKinnon is a feminist, the question comes fromCatherine
https://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/05/28/broad-sheet/#comment-1966493
Sometimes you answer your own questions.
Could the fact that the comment you +1 about the predominance of women in part time and low paid work have any bearing on who “chooses” to stay at home?
It tends to be the lowest paid in the house who is the “stay at home parent” as the loss of that wage is a lower impact. It isn’t a matriarchy pushing men out to work who want to stay at home, it is economics. Once you stay at home your capacity to work full time once kids go to school is reduced, hence a vicious circle of part time and low paid.
Do any feminists formally state an object to paternity leave? Do they formally state an objection to a father choosing to stay at home? Do they formally state an objection to better work life balance for both parents?
I know one group that has, ibec. It has done several submission particularly to prevent paternity leave. Though I may have missed the press release about ibec becoming a body representing feminists.
Maybe when viewed from outside a myopic hatred based on a few extreme twitter accounts and youtube rants, you might see that the vast majority of the group you regularly malign are actually on the same side and fighting for the same thing.
The only contradiction is the one you create in your haste to debase a whole group of people.
Media in Ireland? What Media? There is none. I take my Irish news for those movement on The Guardian, sad but they report far better on the country than the country itself.
this is Sorcha, Andy Pollak (former it journalist) and doireann Ní Bhrians daughter, it’s handy to have parents like that in Irish journalism.
Don’t be bringing her privileged position into this.
s/
Everyone: Equality is good
Feminists: This should be all women
NotAllMen: claiming this is positive is the real inequality.
you should call yourself Gynel
I prefer Ingel. FOR I AM THE INGEL OF RIGHTEOUSNESS SENT TO SMITE THY SINFUL WAYS
Our country is in a collosal mess, people(women and men) cannot house themselves ar! Y
Phone dropped(attempted grab ended in that post).
My point being that having quotas of women in jobs is a luxury argument in an era when the masses are becoming increasingly incapable of having any sort of quality of life.
It’s nice to think that things like this are important but ultimately most working people would prefer to just be able to get by and have somewhere to live.
“The marriage equality campaign saw a largely heterosexual media comment and patronise an LGBT+ campaign. Now we are seeing a largely male political journalistic class comment on a female-driven campaign.”
So, if we oppose these things, we are bad. But then if we get on-board and support these things, Mullally still isn’t satisfied – what is a cis-male to do?
there’s a difference between being an ally and dominating the discourse.
Should Simon Harris/Leo/whoever have held back a bit during the run-up to the referendum for fear of overshadowing the female Repealers? Or was it better that they supported the campaign vocally, and actually leveraged their profiles in getting the vote over the line?
Up until very recently, the 8th amendment was political kryponite, no mainstream politician wanted to go near it, and the campaign was going nowhere fast. Now we have the leader of every major political party campaigning for Repeal; this is how you win a referendum, by co-opting powerful/influential allies. It’s unfortunate that some of the long-time proponents of abortion rights got lost in the headlines about Varadkar/Harris, but it would be a lot more unfortunate if the referendum had have been lost because of politicians not willing to risk their reelection chances by getting involved in a contentious campaign they were likely to lose.
+1
the only analysis on Repeal anybody needs to see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT1nObx_12c