Vulture Shock

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The Department of Housing confirmed to The Sunday Business Post that a number of homes which were sold by Nama to Cerberus in recent years are part of a portfolio of properties under offer by the Housing Agency.

The homes are contained in a portfolio of almost 200 homes currently under negotiation between the Housing Agency and Cerberus, code-named Project CB by the state authority.

The Department of Housing confirmed that 26 of the homes in the portfolio were previously controlled by Nama.

“The vast majority of properties being progressed in the current transaction are not related to state institutions or state-financed institutions. A small number of properties have loan charges that were acquired from Nama by Cerberus,” a spokesman for the agency said.

State pays market price to buy back properties sold at discount to vulture funds (Jack Horgan-Jones, Sunday Business Post)

30 thoughts on “Vulture Shock

  1. curmudgeon

    I dont want to hear anyone complaining about the paywall. The Sunday Business Post is absolutely worth the susbscription. One of the endangered bastions of actual investigative journalism in this country.

  2. Ron

    I refuse to believe that anyone can be this incompetent. In any other country there would be riots on the street

    1. KM

      This is ideologically driven. Who benefits and what do they have to do with the government or the dept of finance? Who is advising the government on these sales? This story along with the story of the mental hospital cutting off water to misbehaving patients was swallowed by the fawning over the Pope.

    2. Giggidygoo

      It’s not incompetence. It’s planned. Noonan needs to be investigated. His successors need to be investigated. And the Anglo loan investigation must now be extended to all loans, including those under the €10m that Noonan conveniently set.

      1. dennis

        Its time rather than the benefit of doubt suspicion should be the order of the day
        When things are private then corruption is pretty rampant
        This is public money not private
        And its time these faceless individuals were put under the microscope
        Mick Wallace was dam right in his accusations and its time NAMA was investigated

  3. johnny

    shame its wrong then huh !
    BS click bait, to try drive sales which are in the toilet, the hack knows better,Cerberus DOES NOT buy ‘homes’ it buys loans secured by ‘homes’.
    Its not a subtle distinction or pedantic its a very important fact.

  4. Anne

    So, they’ll buying back properties from a Vulture fund at the full market rate, that they had previously sold to them at a discount of what? 90% I heard in some cases.

    There’s some thievery going on right under our noses.

    1. b

      What actually happened…..Fund buys hundreds of LOANS at a discount to the par value of the loan (the amount that was supposed to be paid) but at the market rate (ie the rate that bidders were willing to pay)…..some years later after house prices have risen State buys 26 properties that the fund has acquired through working through the (buy to let) loans at a market price

      bit of clickbaitery at play from the SBP

      1. Giggidygoo

        yet only vulture funds were allowed to buy. If they were sold to the occupants for 20% of the value rather than 10% that’s double the income for the state, and no evictions.
        FG FF pockets lined.

        1. b

          your 10 and 20% figures are just plucked from the air, they are not a reality

          the funds were the buyers because they were willing to buy large packages of bad loans and spend the time and money working them through – the titles were not clean and each would have taken work and deals to get to the point where they could be sold as properties to another buyer

          I’m not sure why you think a tenant should have the right to buy the clean title of a property at a significant discount ahead of any other taxpayer

        2. anne

          Individual home owners would require more loans.. the banks wanted the cash, even if it meant huge discounts. it’s nothing to do with what that other fella is sh*ttin on about.. paperwork or something.

        3. dennis

          Ever try and buy a property advertised on the NAMA site?
          I did for the crack
          Try it
          Absolutely impossible
          But vulture funds seem to be able
          All sold at discount prices
          I remember a group of holiday homes on a golf course in wicklow
          The development was tulfarris
          These were advertised at around 70 grand
          They used a estate agents in Dublin to sell them
          The one I was looking at had 3 bedrooms finished off to the highest standards
          It had a Jacuzzi and the patio opened up to a lake
          We went down to the viewing which the estate agent sent a young girl who could not give any information
          When we bidded we were told it was withdrawn
          Twenty people were at the viewing
          Later on on the web I googled and found a blog which was called something fishy at tulfarris
          Google it
          Its still there from 2014

      2. Anne

        ” Discounts on the Par value of the loan”? No sh*t sherlock.. it’s hardly to the par value of a sack of spuds they got the discount on.

        Massive discounts, and we buying them back at today’s ‘market rates’.
        Only 26 homes? That’s about say at a moderate guess 200k write off each, & buying back at the full rate.. what’s 5, 6, 10 million shur, it’s just our money.

        This homeless problem is being orchestrated. No doubt about it.

  5. Amorphous Kerry Blob

    Just so I know, is there a possible acceptable reason for whats outlined in the article above?

    1. Owen C

      NAMA didn’t sell them to Cerberus at a discount to market rate, they sold them at a discount to the original loan value. NAMA sold them to Cerberus at the market rate at the time, and the housing agency is buying them ‘back’ at the current market rate, which is also quite probably still at a discount to the original loan value.

      eg 100,000 original loan, sold to Cerberus for 50,000, bought back for 75,000.

      Its pretty stupid they did this, but the ‘genuine’ reasons are as follows:
      1. NAMA is not particularly interested in chasing down individual landlords/investors and foreclosing on them through the court system. Remember, NAMA never owned the properties, just the loans attached to the properties. So its sells the loans to Cerberus, and lest them do all the mucky legal work in seizing the collateral (property) and dealing with any tenants attached to the property.
      2. There is (at least until the last year or so) a very poor linked-up thinking between NAMA and other parts of the state, to think a bit ahead and see whether certain NAMA assets might be of interest or use to the rest of them before deciding to sell them on to the likes of Cerberus. Its the one genuine flaw within NAMA that wouldn’t have been all that difficult to fix (albeit NAMA has offered some of this stuff to the councils and the councils have turned them down, so its not just NAMA’s fault)

      1. Johnny

        You just made all that up-how do you “know” any of this when the portfolio isn’t identified?
        Housing Agency buys HOUSES not loans,duh !
        The biggest issue with NAMA is excluding the original borrower from buying its loans,in many cases with the extent off their deal knowledge they are the most logical buyer and often willing pay highest price.
        Is Monday a rest day from trolling/stalking Gemma….

          1. Johnny

            Bring it on Owen-you haven’t a clue about this sale,save me the breathless faux “insider” posturing-let me tell ya how it is nonsense…..
            Where would you like me to start ?
            Your opening line-which portfolio Owen,how do you “know” any of this…..you simply made it all up!

          2. Johnny

            Play the ball Owen,your ad hominem comments are the refuge of losers,you simply made your entire comment up.
            Not one part of if it is based an any actual real facts,conjecture,bits you read in newspapers,you’ve one job cover that one irish bank,best stick to that….oh look Gemma did a interview in the SBP,I’m sure the entire country is waiting for a old bond analysts insights,your followers await …..

          3. Owen C

            “Play the ball Owen,your ad hominem comments are the refuge of losers”

            John, honestly, look up irony in the dictionary. There’s a massive picture of you. Don’t get whingy when you don’t like the responses.

          4. johnny

            time for a few LOL’s Owen at your expense,a good trader knows when close out a bad trade, take his loss move on, a bad one well….oh right you were on the ‘analysis’ side,here you go some analysis off your ‘comment’-LOL

            “NAMA didn’t sell them to Cerberus at a discount to market rate, they sold them at a discount to the original loan value”-you’ve absolutely no basis to say or claim that, your comments imply some sort off ‘insider’ status as if your sharing a secret with US-your not you simply made things up to imply that you’ve actual knowledge/inside skinny on deals-you don’t.

            ” NAMA sold them to Cerberus at the market rate at the time, and the housing agency is buying them ‘back’ at the current market rate, which is also quite probably still at a discount to the original loan value.”-complete nonsense all made up,haha any chance of a link Owen.
            “At the market rate at the time”-WTF who even says stupid things like this,certainly no market participant.

            “eg 100,000 original loan, sold to Cerberus for 50,000, bought back for 75,000.”

            They DONT buy loans-servicing and collecting on bad loans ain’t FREE-you’d have include those costs, but lets not get bogged down in actual facts…

            ” So its sells the loans to Cerberus, and lest them do all the mucky legal work in seizing the collateral (property) and dealing with any tenants attached to the property.”

            Or the borrowers took cash fo keys,voluntarily surrendered the property, or gosh maybe they were vacant….

            Got dash Owen,work to do,keep up the good work:)

    2. Johnny

      Housing Agency does it job and buys houses-shock horror,stop the press,state after selling billions and billions of home loans to vulture funds,it’s EXPOSED breathlessly by rag,that yank vulture fund owns a few in a portfolio under negotiation…..
      (No info on which portfolio they were originally in,no info on price Cerberus paid or on the “flip”)
      Has Key Capital (SBP owner) stopped buying NAMA loans ?

  6. johnny

    time for a few LOL’s Owen at your expense,a good trader knows when close out a bad trade, take his loss move on, a bad one well….oh right you were on the ‘analysis’ side,here you go some analysis off your ‘comment’-LOL

    “NAMA didn’t sell them to Cerberus at a discount to market rate, they sold them at a discount to the original loan value”-you’ve absolutely no basis to say or claim that, your comments imply some sort off ‘insider’ status as if your sharing a secret with US-your not you simply made things up to imply that you’ve actual knowledge/inside skinny on deals-you don’t.

    ” NAMA sold them to Cerberus at the market rate at the time, and the housing agency is buying them ‘back’ at the current market rate, which is also quite probably still at a discount to the original loan value.”-complete nonsense all made up,haha any chance of a link Owen.
    “At the market rate at the time”-WTF who even says stupid things like this,certainly no market participant.

    “eg 100,000 original loan, sold to Cerberus for 50,000, bought back for 75,000.”

    They DONT buy loans-servicing and collecting on bad loans ain’t FREE-you’d have include those costs, but lets not get bogged down in actual facts…

    ” So its sells the loans to Cerberus, and lest them do all the mucky legal work in seizing the collateral (property) and dealing with any tenants attached to the property.”

    Or the borrowers took cash fo keys,voluntarily surrendered the property, or gosh maybe they were vacant….

    Got dash Owen,work to do,keep up the good work:)

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