We are still experiencing large amounts of dumping across the city. Dumping like this impacts other waste services that we provide. Domestic Waste collection are working as normal. Please dispose of your waste responsibly. #Dublin #KeepDublinTidy #LoveDublin pic.twitter.com/2JiW8PfZXS
— Dublin City Council (@DubCityCouncil) April 20, 2020
This afternoon.
Dublin City Council announces that, last month, it experienced a 33 per cent increase in notifications from the public about illegal dumping compared to March 2019.
Mmmf.
Previously: Meanwhile, In Meath
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See, these are the people that should be sent picking fruit in north county Dublin.
ah so you do agree it’s a punishment then
It’s about as punishing as any other monotonous manual labour; it’s not like they would be doing it for free.
The people who did this more than likely don’t have jobs; perhaps some gainful employment would keep them out of trouble, instill a bit of self-respect and self-discipline.
I don’t agree that you can leap to the conclusion that the people who did this don’t have jobs, you are just showing your deep seated meprise
I know exactly the street in the screen-grab, I worked in this area of the city for many years, and there are great hordes of people living there who don’t work, and who have never worked.
Question for you: if I was right, and the people who dumped this rubbish turned out not to have jobs and did not have anything better to do, surely it would make more sense to have these people commute from Dublin 1 to Keelings, instead of flying over a plane full of people from Bulgaria, who would need to be quarantined on the way over (and, presumably, the way back)?
if you are asking do I believe in community service to pay for convicted crimes, than yes I do, starting with cleaning up the mass they made,
do I believe fruit farmers would want people with these ethics, or people paying off community service near their fruit ? Doubt it
* mess
exactly j. rob’s attitude shows a bit of a contempt for those who work as cleaners and binmen. and indeed fruit pickers.
PICK YOUR GODDAM STRAWBERRIES, ROB!!
There are unemployed people in Dublin, whom taxpayers are paying for. There is a labour shortage in another part of Dublin. I don’t see how we can’t marry these two things together to the net benefit of everyone…
@scottser – I’d say binmen would be the people most delighted at the prospect of certain residents of the north inner city being made to do an honest day’s work for once in their lives. I seem to be only person who doesn’t regard the picking of fruit as some sort inhumane punishment, but rather as a positive employment opportunity, so I don’t know where you are off to with this ‘contempt’ business.
I’m happy to pay my tax to pay for these people for the overall benifit of a society I want to live in. I am not in a position to judge the situation of anyone on unemployment and neither quiet frankly are you, you’re willingness to call these people hordes or assume they are the only people.inbolved in antisocial behavior is just an indication of your contempt, should you wish to educate yourself a little further here is another aspect for you to consider
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0950017016686030
rob, just say you collected bins for a living. and then someone suggests that the unemployed, or criminals or asylum seekers or whoever shoud all be made to collect the bins. you wouldn’t feel like both you and your profession, that you work hard in, is in any way undermined by those suggestions?
or could you say the same thing about your own profession?
@scottser – it’s unclear to me why you are lumping unemployed people and asylum seekers in the same boat as ‘criminals’ – unemployed people are just people who don’t have jobs. Perplexingly, there are lots of people living within a few mins walk of the capital city of the (pre-COVID) fastest-growing economy in the EU, which imports tens of thousands of workers each year, can’t find jobs. They should be helped find jobs; there are jobs 20kms away. Instead of those jobs being filled by people who need to fly 2,000kms and be put in quarantine, etc., why not send some of the existing Dublin labour pool? They are not incapable; they are just products of a social welfare system that provides perverse incentives to not advance oneself.
An unemployed person might be sent on work placement to a shop, warehouse, office, workshop, or any number of places – I don’t think that denigrates any of those professions.
@janet – Ireland, though the fastest growing economy in the EU for the last number of years*, has had historically one of the higest % of low work intensity households in the EU. Current social policy of letting people claim SW for years with little state intervention to encourage people to take up work does not seem to be working, and seems instead to be leading to generational unemployment – another approach should be tried out.
*again, pre-Covid I’m talking about
perhaps starting at with minimum wage being a liveable wage would be a good start,
affordable housing and healthcare without the need for hap or the medical card,
as an aside from all that
why does it get under your skin so much anyway ?
Rob, some people, as demonstrated by some of the replies here, think that a life on welfare, is all that some can aspire to.That work itself is a benefit. That these people want no more than that and therefore shouldn’t be encouraged or required to do anything else. This life of welfarism, results in generational welfare dependency, learned helplessness, hopelessness that leads to drug dependency, criminal activity, and child abuse. But for the middle class left, that’s failed policy they cling to. In fact they think by increasing the rates of welfare, this will miraculously change this dependency, not make it worse.
For the middle class left, this section of society are to be pitied and given welfare.It’s a lazy, paternalistic policy that infantilses people.Subsidised housing, free medical care,and free education with city centre accommodation the hard pressed commuter couldn’t afford. They are ‘happy’ for their taxes to keep this cohort of society firmly where they are. Down.
you have missed the point by a country mile, but that is to be expected,
maybe you should take a look at countries where wellfare is better… Germany/France and then compare to America,
you are over simplifying the argument and that’s the nicest thing I can say about your point
Janet, I Iived in Germany for many years, welfare benefit is based on your last salary and diminishes as time goes on. The idea that you can languish on benefits for your entire life, just does not happen.
I completely understand where you are coming from and I disagree with it. I don’t patronise people either.
ok Andrew, I think that’s fair too, in France working people get 75 percentage of their wage for the first year unemployment, and many other points that make it preferable to work, including accessible fare rentals,
unemployment benifits isn’t the problem in this country it’s a much bigger picture, but looking down on people or classifying them as slave labor ( as rob was suggesting) isn’t the way forward
imo
@ Janet – people working at jobs where are they paid is opposite of slave labour – it’s just ‘labour’. The fact that you consider asking someone to do day’s work for a day’s pay picking fruit as being analogous to ‘slave labour’ says a lot more about your attitude to agricultural work than it does mine.
France’s unemployment rate is several % higher than Ireland’s for at least the past five years – because of restrictive labour market practices and indeed, because it is too easy to claim unemployment benefits year after year, without much in the way of employment activation.
no my analogy to slave labor is the forced part of it, I’d say the same for any category of job if it was forced,
France and unemployment, well I’m not sure how good your French is but here is a link explaining why a little more concisely
https://www.contrepoints.org/2019/12/31/333808-pourquoi-la-france-a-t-elle-choisi-le-chomage-et-lendettement
the problem is more around the kind of contract employers must provide called a CDI and the taxes your employer pays to employ you, for example for every staff member I had I paid the equivalent of their salery to the government for the pleasure of employing them,
it’s one of the reasons there is a huge marché noir, a lot of people are not declared and get cash in hand or are declared part time and get the balance in cash
that’s the reason most Cafe etc operate two tills,
I’m not sure I understand the argument you are making: we should have a turgid labour market like France, leading to higher unemployment, much higher youth unemployment, and a much bigger black market? (the article you posted seems to support my argument, rather than yours)
Do you think the people who pick fruit in France are all on CDIs? The system in France creates a much more unequal employment market than a less tightly-regulated one: the chosen few with their CDIs, versus young people struggling to get their first job as, given it is so difficult for an employer to fire anyone, isn’t willing to take a risk, and the immigrants getting paid cash in hand to work in the agriculture sector.
my point is it’s not an attractive unemployment payment that keeps people out of work,
I’m not suggesting the French have got it right but it’s not the social system that makes the figures high
In France, maybe less so; in Ireland, which does have a more flexible labour market, and loads of jobs, it is the high rate of welfare keeping people out of work. People would not be so quick to turning up their nose at working in Centra or picking fruit if their social welfare payment went down every 6 months.
200 yoyos a week doesn’t go very far in anyone’s world Rob, say you get HAP too ( 400ish/month), the average rental 800/month if you are lucky
that leaves 400 for you a month minus the 25 rent you pay to get the HAP, that leaves 75 a week, say you spend the rest on groceries, electric, well I don’t think that looks like an attractive long term way to live especially if you were previously employed to a much higher wage,
I don’t know where you are getting your figures from – HAP is over €1k in some instances (thus driving up the rent for everyone).
When the story broke about Margaret Cash, someone worked out that she was probably in receipt of €50k of benefits per annum, exclusive of HAP (so, equivalent to someone earning a salary of about €80k).
The clip doesn’t seem to be online any more, but december last year, Paddy O’Gorman was doing his normal schtick, interviewing people queuing outside the post office collecting their Xmas bonus from SW. One lady said that she was going to spend her Xmas “bonus” on presents for her kids – two iPhone Xs(!) – “because if you buy for one, you have to buy for the other” -FFS.
There are plenty of people living on much more than €75 having a laugh at taxpayers, and tbh they are being enabled by people such as yourself.
those are the figures of the majority, the ones not scaming the system,
get rid of Airbnb and overnight there are affordable rentals across Dublin
actually, i found it about 2:30 in –
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21671471
I don’t know many people working who could afford 2 x iPhone 8s (correction) for their kids, do you?
so you are giving one example and assuming everyone is a wellfare cheat ?
we are obviously not going to change each other’s mind as it boils down to us having very different views on the nature of humanity but thanks for the chat :)
I didn’t accuse anyone of being a cheat, to the best of my knowledge of these examples are claiming anything improperly; merely making use of them to demonstrate that an over-generous welfare system can act as a disincentive to work.
With pleasure :)
*neither of these examples are claiming anything improperly, to the best of my knowledge
Filthy pigs
Dirty bleedin dubs.
Sadly it is happening across the country. not just Dublin. Here in Kildare, as well as Meath and Louth have reported the problem on radio and TV. I have anecdotally heard of it down the country also. Meath CoCo suspended their charges for dumping at the official sites, hoping to stop this (only last week, so too soon to know)
I could not help but think of Alice’s Restaurant where they found an envelope with an address and so traced it back. I hope they are able to do the same here.
And because I thought of Alice’s Restaurant, I could not help but think of the theory someone (I think Arlo Guthrie himself) said that there are 18 minutes missing from the Watergate tapes, and the song is 18 minutes wrong. He reckons Nixon was listening to Alice’s Restaurant.
If you have 18 minutes to spare, it is always worth a listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m57gzA2JCcM&ab_channel=TenaflyViper
*long!
Eh yeah, the entire country has turned into a rubbish-strewn dump since the refuse collection services were privatised. It’s not rocket science to figure out why. THANKS FFG!
Entire country?
The rest of the country, i.e. outside Dublin, has always had bin charges, as well as water charges i might add.
It seems to be a Dublin thing, in areas that have a strong representation from certain political parties, that does not believe in the polluter pays principle.
Sure, it’s a Dublin thing, and yes, some people are always going to try to cheat the system. It’s not right, but it’s a fact that it is going to happen, if people have bin charges, sadly. I’ll just say that it was never as bad as it is now, not since the privatisation of refuse collection. It’s a basic service that should be covered via taxation, like water, which is. Etc.
So…IMO this is a good thing?
The stuff is probably there because it would normally get fly-tipped, but now folks won’t risk the journey.
It’s not right, but it’s a lot cheaper, easier, and less damaging to collect if from there than a ditch somewhere.
The reports are only more prevalent now because people have time on their hands to make the reports. It has always been there, at least since the privatisation of refuse collection.
It doesn’t have to be this way, people! Believe it or not, it is possible to implement a waste policy without it turning into a morality play.
You know how much illegal dumping there is in Paris? Zero. None. Why not? Because the city council collects the bins there. It also means the city council doesn’t have to go around removing as many street bins as they can to stop illegal dumping, which in turn means the streets are cleaner, because when people have rubbish on street they can easily find a bin.
Maybe when this coronavirus crisis is over, some of our geniuses, starting with whoever is the new Minister for Local Government and whoever is the new Minister for the Environment, can get on a plane to Paris and see for themselves how the system works there…
also if you have something large like a couch you want rid off, you call the town hall and they give you a ref no to print, stick to your couch and a time to leave it on the pavement, painless and already paid for in your council tax
Hear, hear!
“these are the people” – Anazom tech worker speaks.
You really have a bee in your bonnet about tech workers, Matt – who was it that hurt you?
was it an unemployed lady who trapped on your heart ;)
tramped God damnit